Michael Clark

2 minutes ago, Gene Kelly said:

Michael:

I consider Walt Brown is a reliable source and good writer, and he obviously studied and analyzed WC testimony carefully.  While the number of questions asked may be a bit imprecise and misleading, the number of days in the witness chair is perhaps a better gage.  I'm not sure how anyone has the patience and attention to detail to count questions from a court reporter's record; more than likely, they were estimating the numbered lines in the margins of such reports.  Nonetheless, Ruth and Michael were questioned over a period of nine days ... in comparison, George de Morenschildt was questioned over two days (April 22-23, 1964) by Albert Jenner.    

In reading through some (but not all) of the Paine testimony, what also stands out in contrast to de Morenschildt's interrogation is that not only counselors Wesley Liebeler and Albert Jenner but also Commissioners Gerald Ford and (notably) Allen Dulles participated in the questioning than began around March 20, 1964. Furthermore, some of Ruth's testimony was conducted in Washington DC and the remainder was conducted at her residence in Irving.

I'd consult the Brown book for more detail, but the Paines received extensive questioning by the Commission, by any measure.  

Gene

Thanks for that Gene,

I think Ruth gave lengthy answers. I'll venteure to say that Crafard was quite the opposite (I have read it closely, and re read a lot of it, but I am going by memory here)

15 minutes ago, Jason Ward said:

Ok, Paul, you have your strictly-by-the-legal-rules-of-evidence-approach

Welcome Jason,

The above quote is simply not the case with Trejo. And that's the problem. But you sound very aware of the situation so I won't belabor it here.

15 minutes ago, David Von Pein said:

The problem for you there is ----- John Connally NEVER said anything about any hearing any whole bullet falling from his stretcher in ANY of the many interviews he gave after the assassination. How can you possibly explain that, Bob? Was Connally part of the cover-up too? (Which would be an odd claim, given the fact that Connally was always adamant about his belief that the SBT was a pile of crap.)

Isn't there a video of Conally describing hearing something drop? I could swear I saw that video.

39 minutes ago, Chris Newton said:

I think this is based on a claim by Trejo and not based on any actual accounting. I don't think it matters but, in terms of time, George De M's testimony may even eclipse Ruth's so even the claim "no one is a close second." is wrong.

By one count, Larry Crafard came in with around 3900 questions, Ruth with 800. It doesn't sound right to me. I found this on Greg Burnham's site.

-------------------------/-

"One gets an array of strange images reading the testimonies in the Warren Report. Some of them are short and sweet, some are seemingly pointless, others are boringly long and don’t lead anywhere and many simply just have a strange focus. At 10:45pm on the 1st of April 1964 a fellow by the name of Curtis Laverne “Larry” Crafard was called to testify. He was one of many peripheral witnesses that for some reason were of interest to the Commission. 

Crafard worked in the Carousel Club as a “handyman” for Jack Ruby. When the shots occurred on Elm Street he was allegedly asleep in a room behind the bar; the Carousel Club was several blocks away from Dealey Plaza. Exactly why the Commission felt the need for an employee at Ruby’s nightclub to explain his whole life in over 3900 questions is a sheer mystery, especially when he was neither a suspect nor a close witness to the killing. 

Larry Crafard’s testimony – talk about a strange hearing. The inquiry into Crafard’s life and activities continued on for more than two days and contained, as we have said, over 3900 questions; they talked about hitch hiking, lunch money, former brothers in law and just about anything under the sun that seemingly didn’t have anything to do with the Kennedy assassination. When Crafard mentioned that Ruby had a feminine way about him, the Commission would ask him if Ruby lisped. They also asked if George Senator lisped. Apparently and for some weird reason they thought that lisping was a sign of homosexuality. The whole read is crazy.

Another person that the Commission spent a lot of time and questions on was Ruth Paine, Marina Oswald’s landlady/alleged CIA handler. Mrs. Paine was also far away from the crime scene. Nevertheless, she was apparently important enough to be questioned for hours on five different occasions in 1964. All in all the Commission asked her approximately 800 questions. Crafard and Paine were seemingly more important than most of the other witnesses; Mrs. Paine certainly was a big “help” in creating the negative image of Lee Harvey Oswald

--------------------------

http://assassinationofjfk.net/the-warren-commission-a-brilliant-deception/

11 minutes ago, Jim Hargrove said:

That's an interesting point, Mathias.  "Oswald" may or may not have been aware of the new university, but I'll bet the CIA had a thick file on it long before he departed the U.S. The WCR says this:

Before he married Marina (and presumably before February, when
he had begun his efforts to return to the United States) Oswald had
applied for admission to the Patrice Lumumba Friendship University
in Moscow. He received a letter dated May 3 apologizing for the delay
in responding to his application and turning it down on the ground
that the university had been established exclusively for students from
the underdeveloped countries of Asia, Africa, and Latin America.
Oswald expressed his disappointment at having been turned down
to Marina.692

The source for the above apparently is Marina, and so we do have to consider it cautiously.  But you suggest an interesting line of investigation.  If possible acceptance at the school was a goal of the so-called defection, how can we find more evidence for or against it?  I'm not sure.

If there was something on this in the Yeltsin Cache, we would probably know it; yet....

On 5/7/2017 at 4:08 PM, Lawrence Schnapf said:

Judge Turnheim said at the March 16th CAPA Sunshine Week event that he personally saw a stack of files several feet high that were not part of the records that Yeltsin turned over to President Clinton 

There is no mention of his university application in his diary.

From this thread:

I am not clear as to what Lawrence was referring.

31 minutes ago, Michael Walton said:

Wow, so now Sandy Larsen is a language expert.  Ironically, he says that kids learn languages faster than adults, then contradicts himself when he asks how long does it take a kid to learn Dickens? As if comparing that apple with an orange will prove...what?

What a joke.

***
As is usually the case here on this forum, whenever a member posts a rebuttal of another "researcher's" pet theory, the normal modus operandi is to either ignore or post long passages of text from testimony and whatnot.  The biggest problem with this is that just because a word or phrase is found in the available record, "researchers" then project this word or phrase onto their pet theory.

There's no evidence - at all - that this Oswald double and his unibrowed "sad" Mom - each bearing an unbelievably striking resemblance to the real US born Oswald and his Mom - ever existed.

When you boil this crazy theory - and many other silly ones as well - down to the essence of it all, the next question is - who really cares? Even if there was an Oswald clone - or three or four - what does it matter?

If we are to believe there was a conspiracy to murder Kennedy, there is plenty of solid evidence elsewhere to prove the conspiracy. One is even what Oswald - or was it his clone (LOL) - knew he was being framed when he was caught saying in front of reporters that he was a patsy. You can take it to the bank that he knew, from the time he was dragged from the theater kicking and screaming until he says the word "patsy" that it had dawned on him that the jig was up.

Yet, the silliness continues. You'd think the people who planned this murder out had superhuman powers when they:

 - Had the assassin's clone running around 10 whole years before the assassination;
 - Had the ability to alter every single piece of film and photo evidence taken during the murder;
 - Had a Jack Ruby impostor murder Oswald A or B in the Dallas parking garage;
 - Faked photos of the above when they removed a hanging microphone in some photos but not in others;
 - Had an assassination headquarters in the basement of Ruby (or *his* clone's) nightclub;
 - Whisked Kennedy's body from the back of Air Force One to perform pre-autopsy surgery on his body;
 - But these same supermen, when putting his body back into the coffin, put him in a different body bag (oops)

People who fall for this xxxx have no ability to distinguish truth from fiction and silliness. Not to bring up today's toxic political environment, but it's like "researchers" here will believe *anything* you tell them without batting an eyelash.
 

This guy might agree with you..

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• Members
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9 minutes ago, Paul Trejo said:

Matthew,

I don't believe that General Walker was personally behind the murder of RFK, but I do believe that General Walker knew the culprits -- because from my reading the Radical Right was the killer of both JFK and RFK.

In the case of JFK, General Walker lived in Dallas and was in firm control of the Radical Right Minutemen in Dallas -- the Mafia was not.

Many people had motives to assassinate JFK -- the Secret Service tracked many such threats.   This is true of all US Presidents.

Many people were also skilled and capable of such a horrific act.

But only one JFK conspiracy was successful -- only one JFK conspiracy had such a firm control of Dallas Radicals that it was certain.

If you knew the actual US history of General Walker you'd realize that he was more motivated than any Mafia figure who ever lived.

Also, through Guy Banister and Gerry Patrick Hemming, we can surmise that General Walker had as much access to Cuban Exiles and Bay of Pigs survivors as anybody else.

Also, while Bill Harvey wrote up a scenario for Executive Action, and David Morales was experienced in this in Latin America -- Bill Harvey was in Italy for most of 1963 -- at best he was a cheerleader from the sidelines.  

David Morales, being in the CIA, was carefully watched.  He did participate, but he wasn't the leader.  David Morales took orders from somebody -- but it wasn't from the CIA high-command -- and this I surmise from Bill Simpich's brilliant work in 2014, in which he demonstrated the high-level CIA Mole Hunt which altered Lee Harvey Oswald's CIA 201 File.

Once again -- the connection of Marita Lorenz to the JFK assassination comes through Gerry Patrick Hemming, who had a written correspondence with General Walker in 1963.   Lee Harvey Oswald moved in their circle.

We have the names of plenty of people who confessed to the JFK assassination, Matthew -- but not until Jeff Caufield (2015) has anybody successfully connected all the dots between them all.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

....

24 minutes ago, David Von Pein said:

Take your attitude elsewhere.

Debate something, David. Leave your snark and perversion wherever you keep your snark and perversion.

17 minutes ago, David Von Pein said:

I find the irony thick and delicious.

Take your findings elsewhere.

...

...

I have this cooler. It's an old, ordinary  plastic cooler that I have had for a long time. It really is exceptionally ordinary except for one thing: It makes a signature creeking sound when it is opened.   
I love this cooler. I can be camping with a boatload of folks and, amidst a late-night cacophony of nonsense, I can hear, from a distance, the tell-tale creek of my cooler letting me know that someone is scavenging my stash for a beer.  
The voice of the cooler would go unnoticed to me, or at most as a minor annoyance, if it were not for a very cool night I spent camping in northwest Colorado.  
In 2001, I took my six month old Jeep on a mountain and desert state trek after being laid off with a severance package.   
I left the Teton area of Wyoming one day, passing through a sliver of Idaho and into northwest Colorado before it was time to find a place to camp.   
My map indicated a camping area, near a reservoir, up in some hills not far from the highway I was following; so I made my way there.   I looked about the place and saw nothing very interesting. 
I did come upon about 6 pelts, from what I thought might be muskrats. They were stripped clean of flesh and turned inside-out. I thought it was strange and I assumed that they might have been illegally taken and ditched to avoid approaching authorities.   
I don't know anything about furs but I could tell that they were very nice and could see how they might be valuable. Being a hunter I wanted to get them to someone who might be able to conserve or use them; but I thought better of that and kept looking for a campsite.  
It was a rather nice area,  if barren of forest and trees. I set up camp on a hill overlooking the reservoir. I was completely alone.  
Following my daily routine that I had established early in my trip, I cooked, cleaned, sat down with a six-pack and an atlas, and began to ponder my next days journey. I had no plan. 
 It became dark, I grew tired. Then a set of headlight beams started tracing around the sky as a vehicle made its way up the access road and appeared on the opposite side of the lake from me. It wound partway around the lake until it stopped after some maneuvering. I could see headlights pointing onto the water and figured out that they were unloading a boat and some gear. After a few minutes, the commotion stopped, I heard the truck doors close, and the truck started moving and began to head up my way.   
I could tell that I had been noticed, and the folks in the truck were coming to check me out. It was an uneasy couple minutes for me, alone, unarmed, no communications and my whereabouts unknown to anyone. I had considered vacating my site to an observable distance but decided to hope for the best and be the friendly traveller.  
The truck approached and the driver courteously switched from the headlights to parking lights and parked; I heard a "hello" as the occupants got out and approached.   
 There were two guys and they repeated their greeting and walked up to me. I returned the greeting and we talked for a while. 
 They heard about my trip, expressed admiration for the endeavor and explained that they were going to be fishing in the reservoir for a few hours.   
 Before moving on, one of the guys said "do you like trout". I said "absolutely" and he walked away as he said "alright" with some emphasis.
 They drove down to the boat and disembarked as I went back to my chair, thinking of my sleeping bag and camp mat. As I let myself wind down from the recent encounter I noticed a crimson glow outlining the hills and wearily wondered what I was looking at; hoping it was not any cause for interruption of my imminent snooze.  
 I tried to let my relaxed state of mind take over as I stared into the fire and failed to avoid questions as to what might be causing the glow in the sky over the hills.   
 The deep red hue had me assuming it was a fire somewhere but my mind went through a host of other options before I had to look up again. It was growing slowly and unsteadily, and I had to rule-out fire as the cause because it was so intermittent.  
 Then I noticed that it was moving in rose colored  waves and sheets. Originating strongest at the skyline the colors weakened towards the center of sky as the waves rolled and lapped up against the dark sky as if it were a sparkling black sandy beach at night at the edge of a sea of luminescent blood.  
 After a few moments I realized that I was looking at a completely red Aurora Borealis; something I did not know existed. I was dumbstruck with awe at what I was seeing. I had never seen the Northern Lights before and had imagined that I never would; but here I was watching great scarlet splashes, spokes and spikes striking at the star filled sky with unbelievable speed; revealing a perspective which confirmed the fact that all this luminous noise was occurring at a tremendous distance from my location.  
After a while, I realized that I was not breathing and my chest was tight. I was gripped by a tension that I had never experienced before, a feeling I would not have expected or imagined unless I had just met my maker. I made several attempts, as time passed, to relax, and enjoy this cosmic show as if it were produced for my entertainment. 
 My soul was clearly not convinced about the entertainment angle I was trying take on the spectacle; anxiety and tension continued to build. Before I realized it, 2 hours had passed and I may have had three sips of my beer. Suddenly I let out a Huge exhausted sigh. The brilliant show in the night sky had worn me down, exhausting me physically and emotionally from the tension and tumultuous beauty I was witnessing.  I was spent and went to bed, dismayed that I was turning my back on a phenomena that I would probably never see again. As I immediately fell into an exhausted sleep I was briefly concerned that if something should happen during the night, around my tent, I would slumber through it, oblivious until it was too late. And then I slept, deeply.  
  At some point in the night my consciousness was ever so slightly aroused by a creeking sound followed by a thump. That's all I remember from my sleep as I woke the next morning, yawning and rubbing my eyes and trying to mentally reconnect my brain to my legs and feet; I had slept very deeply.  
  In due course I was out of my tent and slowly fussing around, preparing for breakfast. I opened my cooler, and the creeking movement of the lid reminded me of the sound I heard during the night. As I was trying to get my sleepy head around the noise that seemed like a faint dream, I reached for a package in the cooler that I couldn't identify. I unpacked one freezer bag from another and realized that there were five dressed rainbow trout inside.  
  It took a few minutes to realize that I had not bought and forgotten about them. Then the previous nights puzzled pieces came together and I had a most delicious and thankful breakfast for the next three days, compliments a couple of Colorado fisherman who must have had a fantastic night fishing and enjoying the northern lights.  

Whenever I hear my cooler open up, I smile.

Hi, Joe, Do You see a field, below these words that say "Ryply to this topic"? If so, Click in there and a window should open up in which you could post your reply.

This is not a particularly remarkable story; but it is about my initiation into the belief that spirits linger in this world after death.

I was having dinner and drinks at the home of a friend of mine; he is an older guy. It seemed to me that he had a good buzz going. Glazed eyes,  a fixed smile, and a reluctance to make eye contact were unusual for him. He was lamenting the final days of a neighbor and friend; an old man, whom he spent a lot of time taking care of up until his death. He was revealing some details of this experience; and it had the essence of a confession. Their was a sense of guilt that he was imparting in this conversation.

The guilt was entirely unjustified, as he could not have done much about the circumstances and final outcome. Over the next year or two I had a similar experience, caring for my father as he died from Lou Gherig's disease and dementia. For all I did to care for him there were times that I  did not do enough, and those failings bother me to this day. This is only relevant in as much as I can, now, understand this helpless guilt.

It was those kinds of failings that my friend was lamenting that night while we were eating and drinking. 

During a lull in the conversation, while he was uncharacteristically staring a thousand yards away, in a modest sized kitchen, with the glazed eyes and resigned smile, that i felt a cold space move through my own bodily space. I can't say that I got a chill; it was different. 

I looked at him and asked if he felt that; and without looking at me, and with no excitement; he said "yes".

I knew then that this spirit stays close to him; for better or for worse; and for the first time I became a believer in such things.

One night I was hunting in the Adirindack Mountains of NY. I left camp at around 3:AM to climb a mountain that I had scouted the previous day. It was Muzzleloading season.
 
I was about half way up when I heard a scream just like another member described.  I would further describe it as an insane wouman, being brutally murdered.
 
All bets were off at the moment regarding what were just fairy tales, myths, harpies, sirens and bogeymen; the were suddenly all real and I wished I had not found out at that moment, alone on a mountainside in the middle of the night.
 
A complete chill and shudder came through in a wave across my body. I dropped to my buckled knees.  I really thought I was done for but realised that I had to do something to defend my self. I tried to load my gun but the shaking and shuddering were too much and I could not get it loaded.  
 
Of course I was fine and was on my way in a few minutes. I was paying no attention to the voice in my head that told me I should be trying to find the woman that made that noise.
 
Over some time and after some research, the best candidate for the identity of that creature that I could find was that it was a bobcat.
 
To be sure, it sounded exactly like a woman. It was uncanny; and farghing scary as hell!

It sounded like this, but higher and smoother.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=y58g_nvMIRw

On the same trip I went to Canyonlands NP in Utah and drove the White Rim trail; down along the Colorado river and back up along the Green River. 

As I drove along the Green River, along some flats, I saw a bunch of bicyclists entering a campground. As bikers rode in, they were all greeted with lots of cheers and celebration; they must have had a long trek.

I continued on and started heading up Hardscrabble hill. Towards the top, a Cherokee was heading towards me, and as we both slowed down, to allow each other to pass, we came upon a cyclist lying on the side of the road, near his bike. He had died. He was already grayish in color, and we knew it was too late to help him. He was in his mid-40's and obviously in good shape. He had his arms articulated in a way that indicated he was trying to get his backpack around to the front of him when he died.

After talking with the Cherokee driver, we decided that he would head to the campground where the bicyclists were and I would head on to inform the ranger.

I had never seen a dead person outside of a wake, so that fairly well creeped me out.

In 2001 I took my Jeep on a trip. I did about 9000 miles in six weeks, from NY to Whyoming, down through the mountain states and back.

Somewhere west of Denver, along i70, I pulled off to find a place to camp. I rolled into a very small town. I believe it was just a mile long, dead end strip, With houses and stores, and cars parked here and there along side the road. At the time I didn't take particular notice of anyone or anything. It would turn out that my mind picked up a couple small details that I would remember a little while later; namely, three young guys sitting on a stoop and a tan sedan parked in front of them. They had noticed my coming and going from town.

I drove away; possibly heading up the interstate a short distance, or passing under the interstate, heading south on rough roads. In a short time I had taken a sharp left turn and, in about a hundred yards, I came to a dead end in the woods that looked to be a good spot to camp.

I turned the jeep around and started unloading some things. I just happened to be looking towards the turn I had come around; when I noticed the front two or three feet of a tan sedan poke around the corner, lurch to a stop and the back away, out of site.. I immediately put my observations from town together and knew I was in trouble. 

Those three guys had me pegged for a lone traveller looking for a place to spend the night and figured I might find this spot. They had pulled around the corner far enough to see my jeep. But not far enough that I or the driver saw each other

I quickly tossed my stuff in the jeep tore out of there. When I came around the corner I passed their car which they had pulled into a small turn-around. As I whizzed passed them I could see that they were In the middle of grabbing things from the car and trunk and putting on different shirts.

I cannot be 100% sure but I believe that I would not have had a good night if I didn't catch a glimpse of that bumper.

I copied a few stories, which I wrote, from the linked sacary stories thread in the first post. I will edit them a bit because when I posted them on the the other site they needed some attention.

4 of my scary stories to follow....

The admins have opened a Latin Inscriptions sub-forum.

I would have contributed more by now but most things I have wanted to post require finding a linkable JPG (or other) URL; and I have not found them.

Here is a link to the subforum:

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/forum/280-latin-the-language-the-inscriptions-and-the-use/

On 8/7/2017 at 3:46 AM, Evan Burton said:

I don't see any reason that couldn't be done. Let me get approval to do that and I'll advise here when done.

On 8/7/2017 at 8:11 PM, Kathy Beckett said:

I'm sure we could put up an Archaeology  section, though.

If you see fit to open an archeology subforum paerhaps James or John Simkin (UK) could ask some of the former Time Team cast to join the forum. They have become iconic figures to me since I have become such a fan of the show since I discovered it a month or so ago. I am no fan of the Telly, so this is unheard-of for me.

I didn't quote James in this reply because I haven't seen him weigh-in on this idea yet, and I don't know if he is keen on-it.

Cheers, 

Michael

47 minutes ago, Joe Bauer said:

Excuse me, not to interrupt the flow of this interesting debate, but what were the official finding results of the Parkland hospital analysis of the paraffin tests on Oswald?

"A paraffin test was applied to Oswald's hands and right cheek; his hands reacted positively, whereas his cheek did not."

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/factoid2.htm

35 minutes ago, Ron Bulman said:

.  I need to start writing down sources when I come across something like this, too much info on the assassination in the old cranium.

Ron, I opened a Research Storage thread in the JFK Research subforum for this purpose. I can quickly grab threads quotes or links and drop them in the reply boxes that I have reserved on that thread. I add, sort and remove stuff on occasion.

Feel free to grab/reserve a bunch of reply boxes on that thread if you want.

Mathias Makes a great case that Debunks Walker-did-it zealotry.

I was going to reply to the thread from which Mathias' came, but I decided to start a new one.

It wasn't Walker, and Dallas was the last shot at the possibility for a clean coup. Kennedy had to be killed before the Vietnam pull out was announced and before the Bobby Baker scnadal broke. If JFK had cancelled his trip to Dallas, something highly reckless, and possibly looking like an overt coup would have been implemented; something like a re-purposed Operation Northwoods, or backfired Operation Mongoose would have been put into play.

The Dallas-with-LHO plan, that did not devolve into fall-back plans B, C and D, in Dallas, was the last chance for a clean, deniable coup that could be covered-up. Walker had no control over the length, width and breadth of the Dallas set-up, hit, cover, or fall-back, in Dallas, or elsewhere, nor alternate, reckless Mongoose or Northwoods based faranken-hit and coup options.

.Mathias Baumann posted:

.......the assassination could have happened anywhere. Think of the plots that failed in Chicago and Tampa. It was probably just a stroke of luck that it worked in Dallas.

19 minutes ago, George Sawtelle said:

Andrej

Chronic low dose radiation does suppress the immune system. Doses as low as 100 rad.

I recently read an article that discusses this very issue. If you like I can post it for your review.

From "Me and Lee" Judyth Vary Baker pg 495

Clay Shaw arrived with a zippered bag like the blue one Lee owned. It held two thermoses, one contained the deadly cancer cells. The other contained a sterile medium for replenising the liquid in the other thermos to keep the cells alive. There were also packets resembling packets of sugar to make more sterile medium, if necessary.

pg 499

There he was handed a second blue zippered "lunch bag" and told that it contained fresh cancer cells which would give the Product two extra days of shelf life.

pg 500

Lee went to the disignated drop-off point ... a souvenir shop where he was supposed to meet a medical technician that would continue to keep the cells alive.

So apparently steps were taken to preserve the designer cancer. Oswald, who left Louisianna in the morning by plane, would fly to Dallas and then Houston where he would take a bus to the Mexican border and then to Mexico City. In Mexico City he would hand the weaponized cancer to a cuban who would then take it to Cuba.

But I believe there was a more sinister plan in the works. Oswald would get as far as Laredo where he was met by two cubans who told him the plan had been called off and he was drive to Dallas with them. Upon arriving in Dallas, Oswald and the two cubans met with Sylvia Odio at her house. But what happened to the second blue bag supposedly containing weaponized cancer? And what happened to the original blue bag that was given Oswald in Louisianna? I believe the second blue bag was taken to Dallas by Oswald where it was discarded and the original blue bag with the weaponized cancer was left in Houston.

I don't think Oswald made it to Mexico City.