Michael Clark

Replying to Mark Knight, I am thinking that the sole purpose of the Watergate break-in was simply to get caught, and light a fire under Nixon's butt. It very well may be that Hunt, Mccord and Liddy, and their families, were under a direct and certain threat to cause a Cuban invasion, or they would be killed. Hunt Liddy and Mccord may not have been aware of a the preferred status of perpetual antagonism with Cuba, or they would not have been in a position to tell the Cuban exiles of that plan. They would have been beyond furious, and exacted revenge.

10 minutes ago, Paul Brancato said:

Yup. Nixon. Which leads to another prominent Republican family.

Michael,

one thing I would like to add to your theory is that it was nit necessary to kill JFK in order to provoke a US retaliation against Castro. An attempted assassination, blamed on a Castroite, would have sufficed. However, the same is not true for Vietnam. For a deep change in US foreign policies JFK had to be eliminated.

Paul, thanks for your input.

This is an evolving CT. I'll make a few remarks. Some of them repeat what I suggested above, some of it is new.

I have to point out that I believe that there was no intention to invade Cuba after the assassination. The promise of a Cuba invasion was a ruse to get the the anti Castro Cubans to act, and actually do the shooting. They got double-crossed. That is the main point of the theory and has not changed.

What is new, since I started the thread, is that I believe that the assassination was carried-out largely to secure US control over Guantanamo Bay. I believe that it was determined that unfettered control of Guantanamo could only be born-out by an antagonistic relationship. I believe that Kennedy would have eventually persued detent, normalization or war with Cuba. An invasion and war would have eventually led to some kind of normalization, and Guantanamo's status would again come into question. Whoever led Cuba, would address that issue, and the leader could or would die, be overthrown or assassinated and Guantanamo would again be challenged. My theory has the convenience of being born out by the history of the last 55 years. Guantanamo never has been challenged or questioned under the adversarial relationship.

Now, I repeat myself that I believe that the adversarial relationship had the added benefit of neutralizing off-shore Mafia power, and a competing tourist market. It also satisfied racial and anti-Catholic prejudices. 

In my theory, Anti-Castro Cubans did-it for the price of a free Cuba and they got double crossed. That is why they showed-up at Watergate.The adversarial relationship was preferred and Nixon was never going to invade. On the ground, the double-cross was managed locally, in Texas and Dallas. But I am now comming to believe that a wider range of elements on the right approved of and assisted in the plan.

i don't believe that we were actually trying to assassinate Castro. That was a ruse as well. Castro and Communism meant antagonism and isolation.

To be sure, Its all speculative and a working hypothesis.

1 hour ago, Mathias Baumann said:

There's another photograph of Diaz Garcia on this website here: https://www.ecured.cu/Herminio_Díaz_García

I tried to a insert a link. It did not work.

On 3/17/2015 at 10:05 PM, John Dolva said:

MOSCOW, March 17 /TASS/. Russia expects adequate international reaction to glorification of Nazis in Latvia, Konstantin Dolgov, the Russian Foreign Ministry ombudsman for human rights, democracy and the rule of law, said on Tuesday.

"We resolutely condemn the Latvian authorities for supporting commemorations of Waffen SS veterans," the Russian diplomat stressed.

The veterans of Latvian Waffen SS legion and their young radically-minded supporters marched to the Monument of Freedom in the center of Riga on Monday, March 16, to pay tribute to the SS legion members. They were joined by some deputies of Latvian parliament who are members of the Fatherland and Freedom/ Movement for Latvia’s National Independence association as well as by their followers from the neighboring Lithuania and Estonia.

I am replying here because I miss John Dolva.

He has no been online here since before I became a member. 

It bothers me that members disappear without a trace.

..............

on topic... Facism is Partyism, Literally, factually, and dangerously.

I hope you are doing well John Dolva,

Cheers,

Michael

On 8/19/2017 at 10:17 PM, Jason Ward said:

Hi Michael, thanks for pointing me to your CT.   

Please take what I say as a conversation and see any challenges I make as rhetorical versus disagreeable.  I have no theory to defend and don't advocate a position here, but i do frankly enjoy challenging people to tighten up what they claim.  

I think your basic strategic structure is very reasonable.   Anti-Castro Cubans / Mafia + Right wing Industrialists link up to kill Kennedy.  Each faction with their own motivations, but with the first two players wanting Cuba re-established into the glorious corrupt pit of debauchery and plutocracy it was under the fearless democrat friend of America, Fulgencio Batista.

Strengths:

1 - no grand conjectures where 2 + 2 = 7 as in the theories that rely on a single dark force like the CIA.   

2 - JFK is the proven enemy of all 3 factions.  It intuitively makes sense.

3 - The Vietnam War happened as indicated by the preference of one faction.

4 - Does not rely on complicated scenarios such as shooters in certain locations.

5 - Does not rely on a specific person without which it falls apart (like the Ruth Paine or Clay Shaw -dependent theories).

6 - Does not rely on flashy melodrama like Ruby's strip bar shenanigans, 2 Oswalds groomed from birth, double agents, etc.

7 - Does not rely on great unknowns like what LHO was up to in Russia or what was really going on in Mexico City.

8 - Does not require any particular role for Oswald.

Weaknesses:

1 - is the Vietnam War really such a unified goal of the Fortune 500?    I see some political defense hawks in Washington and Bell Helicopter+D contractors always pushing for war as they continue pushing even today; but I don't see Exxon, IBM, Ford, or the Rockefellers or Howard Hughes or the Hunts as giving a damn about Vietnam any more than they give a damn about Cuba.  There are beneficiaries from war of course, but I think the Cold War taught industrialists that a scary regime of commie fear was actually just as profitable as a shooting war.

2 - Implies malicious intent between the factions in what may really be more like arms-length indifference. In other words, I may go to war with you but I'm not guaranteeing your outcome.   Despite our mutual rejection of the CIA-did-it CTs, I think we can admit that the CIA was obsessed by Cuba and spent a lot provoking Cubans into battle readiness.   Isn't any misplaced trust from the Cubans due to CIA/government over-promissing and under-delivering?   What did Bell Helicopter and corporate America every do to mislead the Cubans?

3 - The mafia is I think a problem with all CTs that employ them.   Vegas is coming along nicely at this point and will soon if not already exceed the profitability of Cuba.  Besides, what could the Mafia offer either the Cubans or Big Industry in return for re-criminalizing Cuba?    Free hookers for corporate executives?   A guaranteed limit of rigged casino games to 95 instead of 99% take?  The disappearance of Jimmy Hoffa?   Yes, the mafia wants Cuba back but they don't have much to trade.

4 - Relies on assumption anti-Castro Cubans need confidence-building exercises.   They're desperate and they either get whoever will help them in the US to help them or they give up all hopes of getting the old ways back.  They feel lucky anyone's even willing to hear their pleas.

 

Ok, so that's my basic review, I hope it's helpful in some way.  Maybe it will open up places where you can do more research or fine tune your theory.

Later in the thread you mention Watergate.   I think we've got 10,000 people hoping to birth the one CT that solves everything about JFK.  Yet I don't think many are looking at Watergate and Nixon thoroughly.   I guess we're jaded because now we know so much, but I don't understand why when a group of Cubans + E Howard Hunt get arrested breaking into the Democratic Party offices everyone in America doesn't immediately start to think, "hmmmmm....these are all the same people who were implicated in the assassination."    I'm not aware of any big uproar as to the Cubans getting arrested, but to me that is the biggest angle in the story.  You might work that in?   Also, maybe consider Watergate as a non-violent form of the JFK assassination perpetrated by the same people?  JFK+RFK+MLK+Geo Wallage+Watergate.

 

thanks for your kind words

Jason

 

Thanks for you thoughtful review of my disheveled CT, Jason. It deserves a reply and and my CT needs an update.

....

24 minutes ago, Jason Ward said:

Ok, maybe I misunderstood your post.   I thought your post was trying to say that these letters I posted from Walker's FBI file from tipsters implicating Walker in the JFK assassination were white noise created by The Right - perhaps meant to send the FBI on a wild goose chase.  But you are not really linking these letters to action from the Right and instead are saying in broad terms that the Right wants to make things difficult to investigate; right????

J

Taking portions of a quote can be deemed to be disingenuous, cowardly, insincere and worse.

Please allow me to do-so without applying the aforementioned recriminations....

You said....

"these letters I posted from Walker's FBI file from tipsters implicating Walker in the JFK assassination were white noise created by The Right"

The statements made were made regarding evidence of conversations heard before the assassination. The affadavit was made after the assassination. So, no, Jason, it is evidence of the "static and noise", made prior to the assassination. It is not a post assassination diversion. 

"

"But you are not really linking these letters to action from the Right and instead are saying in broad terms that the Right wants to make things difficult to investigate; right????"

No, Jason. You are trying to make these statements relative to the assassination investigation, when they are actually evidence of prior-to-the-assassination noise, static and obstruction of the protection of our President.

I have to say that our Dealy Plaza fellow that is thought to be Landsdale, has a tall, thin head. Landsdale has a stocky head.

To be sure, whoever he is, walking, slipping himself, in between that situation and the gate, is a person of paramount interest. 

I find the Krulak and Prouty identification to be nearly impeachable.

I just think Landsdale has a a more- squarish head. To be sure, I am not your photo-analysis guy.

20 minutes ago, Jason Ward said:

For what purpose do you see the KKk-JBC-Radical Right wanting to strain law enforcement resources?   

J

That is a question that answers itself. 

I am listening. Please rephrase.....

2 hours ago, Jason Ward said:

Hi Mike, again I don't want to sell you on a theory or argue but I'm reading through the huge FBI file on Walker.   I do think that the Radical Right and their leaders were perhaps the most widespread assumed conspiracists in the short time before the lone-nut-commie coverup was fully instigated by the government and adopted by the public.  Hoover naturally assumed much the same thing.   Many many tips like this below appear in the FBI files:

 

 

It has been my contention that, prior to 12:30 on 11-22-63, it was the job of the KKK, JBC and radical right, to create static, background noise and foster rumors, in order to tax and strain the resources of (non-Dallas) law enforcement, the FBI, Secret Service and even the few remaining loyal higher echelon resources if the CIA. 

Douglas Caddy would, I believe, recount his last exchange with E Howard Hunt, while leaving a restaurant in 19 seventy-sumthin. 

Paraphrasing.....:

Douglas: " So, Howard, why was JFK killed?"

Hunt: " Because he was about to reveal an important secret to the USSR."

Douglas: "What secret was that?

Hunt: "The alien presence."

9 hours ago, Harry J.Dean said:

In the south central U.S.

Was a Federal spy

Lee Oswald, by name

In the same job as I.

 

Love that Harry.

Cogent and brief

Accept my apologies 

If my words caused you grief.

Cheers,

Michael

37 minutes ago, Jason Ward said:

Very well.  

I'm not interested in convincing anyone of my ideas - that's what the likes of ___________ and ___________ do on this forum.  

If you don't want to look at the cites I provide and other evidence unless it's spoon fed to you, I understand completely.

 

Jason

 

 

That's a cop-out, Jason. Paul Trejo likes to "cite" the "WCR", or "Garrison". Are you going to do the same?

1 hour ago, Sandy Larsen said:

Michael,

If the FPCC gig was CIA (which I too believe it was), why would Hoover have known (shortly after the assassination) that Oswald was no commie?

 

Sandy, It's clear that the FBI and CIA were not disconnected. Mccord was working LHO and the FPCC. Hoover would not be ignorant of our Soviet abortive defector.

2 minutes ago, Jason Ward said:

Think it over tonight and review all the angles.  

Jason

I will. Don't be surprised if I come up with something that looks like my working pet CT; which was half typed-out, before you replied;) Alas, I will give it a rest.

Cheers,

Mike

4 minutes ago, Jason Ward said:

Ok, no problem, one thing that makes this forum hard is that all of us have different facts we know are true but can't cite because we read it once and didn't write it down; I'm trying to avoid that although I need reminding from you.

 

Jason

If it were from any of the other chapters I could have and would have searched for walkers name, and come back with my results. I just don't have 6.

11 minutes ago, Jason Ward said:

 

If Oswald is no commie, but the Radical Right (aka DPD / Dallas DA) is blaming Oswald, Hoover now knows who is behind the assassination...it is neither Oswald nor the commies.

JW

Well, I don't see that as a necessary conclusion. The Dallas and right wing elements are leaving the FBI no choice but to blame Oswald. But, They are actually doing very little to make that happen on their own. For example, we would never have heard a peep about a mauser, and there never would have been a call to get all hands out to see what's going on in the railroad yard, if they were the ones he'll bent on blaming Oswald. There are further examples.

6 minutes ago, Jason Ward said:

 

 

Sorry if you feel I just threw out a big chunk of data.  My suggestion: click on my links, and use ctrl-F to pinpoint search terms.  For the State Secret cite I gave, the quote I took is from the most relevant part to our discussion, which is under the bold black heading "Angleton and Hosty say the cover up was designed to protect the Soviets", and more specifically, the paragraph that begins:"Other CIA and FBI chiefs differed as to whether the assassination was perpetrated by foreign or domestic enemies, or whether Oswald acted alone. ...

 

Jason

Thanks Jason, I have a good chink of simplichs book, but not chapter 6. I use an IPAD and can't search well (yet, no ctr f). I need to get an MF account.

4 minutes ago, Jason Ward said:

Who says anything about Walker?  Not me.

Jason

Walkers guilt and a USG cover-up are the subject of this thread. 

11 minutes ago, Jason Ward said:

E Howard Hunt set up the Cuban Revolutionary Council.   Guess where the offices of the Cuban Revolutionary Council are?   Yes indeed, in LHO's "office" at 544 Camp st.

 

1.

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/1975/07/17/the-cias-mystery-man/

2.

"Until a few weeks prior to Oswald's arrival in New Orleans, the aging building housed the offices of the Cuban Revolutionary Council, the umbrella anti-Castro organization created by E Howard Hunt"

https://books.google.com/books?id=7U8PAAAAQBAJ&pg=PT119&lpg=PT119&dq=544+camp+st+e+howard+hunt&source=bl&ots=wi_NJ6xgE_&sig=jQxHcu2x_seQPgRhYs25c7m_Y64&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwie_M6Z8e7VAhWHKWMKHXK1DjkQ6AEIUDAH#v=onepage&q=544 camp st e howard hunt&f=false

3. "In connection with those duties, it was further alleged that Hunt was instrumental in organizing the Cuban Revolutionary Council and that the Cuban Revolutionary Council had an office in New Orleans. Finally, it was claimed that Lee Harvey Oswald lived in New Orleans from April to September 1963, and that a pamphlet prepared and distributed by Oswald on behalf of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee during that period indicated that the office of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee was situated in building which was also the address of the New Orleans office of the Cuban Revolutionary Council"

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/hunt_sturgis.htm

Jason, none of that has anything to do with Walker, and has everything to do with the CIA.

If you are in Paul Trejo's swamp, then you are doing that same thing he always does, which is to bring greater scrutiny and culpability to the very thing from which he attempts to deflect said culpability; and prove himself wrong the more he provides proof.

No offense, it's just the same ole, same ole, Paul Trejo-twist.

I am seeing nothing in your offering that indicts Walker and a government cover-up of Walkers guilt. It's just not there. Walkers name is not even mentioned.

4 minutes ago, Jason Ward said:

Hoover knew the whole sheep-dipping exercise in Mexico City was fake and not the real Oswald.  Hoover knew that someone/something was desperate to paint Oswald as a communist in applying for a Cuban/Soviet visa.   Since Hoover knew the Mexico City Oswald stories were fake, he knew Oswald was not the communist the radical right made him out to be an hour or two after the assassination.

 

Although Hoover publicly adopted the view that Oswald acted alone, he told his colleagues that he couldn’t forget the CIA’s “false story re Oswald’s trip in Mexico City”.

The evidence Hoover knew Mexico City was a total fake-commie-sheep-dipping effort is here, among many other sources:

1.

https://www.maryferrell.org/pages/State_Secret_Chapter6.html

2. 

In Detail:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/oswald-the-cia-and-mexico-city/

None of that Frontline article makes the conspiracy a Walker-did- it conspiracy that the government covered-up. It does not even mention Walker.

The Chapter of State Secret you offered (6) is leghthly. Is Walker even mentioned in that?

That is rather Trejo-esque, Jason, to throw a massive volume out to the reader, as your "citation", and tell them to dig-in.

3 minutes ago, Jason Ward said:

Whether the FPCC gig is CIA or rogue or Right Wingers is largely irrelevant though - insofar ..... "

Jason

"Insofar" as the FPCC NOLA op was CIA, it is entirely irrelevant, "insofar" as LHO was NOLA FPCC and CIA, and was accused of shooting the President.

BTW, Jason, I missed it. How do you place E. Howard Hunt at 544 Camp st. ?

The NOLA FPCC gig was CIA. Bannister and Hoover would have known LHO was no Commie. Trejo can call rogue all he wants. It doesn't put his hero in charge of anything.

On 8/22/2017 at 0:56 PM, Paul Trejo said:

James,

It was the Cold War.  What was normal in a time of threatened nuclear obliteration?

Harry Dean's story still carries weight, because he offers an account of what happened in Mexico City as he heard it from Radical Right leader Guy Gabaldon, he claims.

Harry Dean helped to load the paramilitary supplies trailer for Loran Hall and Larry Howard many times.   I take this to be a fact.

Loran Hall showed Harry Dean the money he got from Guy Gabaldon to drive Lee Harvey Oswald from New Orleans to Mexico City.

Loran Hall and Larry Howard match (to a significant degree) the description of "Leopoldo" and "Angelo" by Sylvia and Annie Odio.

Mexican Immigration records show that Lee Harvey Oswald entered and exited Mexico as a passenger in an automobile.

So, Harry Dean's story remains plausible -- despite 52 years of harsh criticism.   Harry's story still carries weight.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Paul Trejo. Try to stay on topic.The thread to which you were responding was about a phone call that the evil CIA agent and Nicaragua death-squad list compiler, Ruth Paine, made.