Michael Clark
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Posts posted by Michael Clark
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1 hour ago, Ernie Lazar said:
This comment by Paul is yet another example of how he always tries to REVERSE ENGINEER some explanation (no matter how implausible or absurd on its face) which can be used to divert attention from the FACT that Paul has absolutely NO VERIFIABLE FACTUAL EVIDENCE to support his assertions.
A while back I posted a message from our nation's foremost expert about FBI history (Dr. Athan Theoharis) which (at that time) responded to another fabrication invented by Paul Trejo. As Dr. Theoharis pointed out on that previous occasion, NOBODY (and I mean NOBODY) within the large community of FBI scholars believed Paul's previous assertions about the FBI filing system.
Paul just INVENTS this stuff from whole cloth -- which is why he NEVER quotes anybody in order to support his hallucinations and delusions.
THIS is why Paul Trejo is NOT a legitimate researcher nor a respected analyst about ANYTHING. Paul is (and always has been) nothing more than a fiction writer.
A quote worth bringing into this thread.
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26 minutes ago, Jason Ward said:
I've been thinking a good analogy might be that the exact same characters and mindset we see in Selma, Alabama or Bogalusa, Louisiana, or Jackson, Mississippi are in place in Dallas in 1963. The big difference is that the other guys are largely poor backwards rednecks with little power and influence, while the boys in Dallas found themselves on a pile of money and power beyond their experience. In short, a bunch of southern good ole boy rednecks got lucky by moving to Dallas in the 20s or 30s and found themselves of almost equal power to the elite of Chicago or LA. In any case, they were as rich or richer than the elite of more traditional power centers, it seems. Thoughts?
Roger, here's some more Dallas evidence to chew on. If one reads the FBI internal communications consecutively for any period (a week a month a year), it's clear where their top efforts are focused during the fall of 63.
...men like John Masen.
1. He's almost completely off the radar because even creative fantasy cannot connect him to the CIA. But on a very important date who does Hoover look for ?
John Masen.
A Dallas gun dealer.
2. This is an interesting person and date and crime, don't you think? John Masen - interesting guy.
3. ...and how fascinating it is that the man John Masen, arrested in Dallas with automatic weapons crimes in November of 63, wanted by Hoover on 22 November, in turn is shown as a suspected pal with none other than General Edwin Walker:
Jason, All the Racist and knob headed rightist factions in Texas and the south did is create noise to obscure the plot before, and leave a dusty trail behind , after the assassination. Your documents prove that over and over again.Oh yeah, they murdered a bunch of journalists an others who were unfortunate enough to know something of the truth, and were courageous enough to speak the truth.
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26 minutes ago, Jason Ward said:
The president of the United States, John F Kennedy, authorized the CIA in Saigon to explore regime change up to and including the assassination of Diem.
Diem's ouster is well documented - like all CIA operations.
There is zero evidence in the entire history of mankind of a CIA unilateral operation, nor some massive conspiracy of the "East Coast Establishment," acting contrary to the legal authorizations of an elected president.
Nor can the Diem removal sustain any parallel to the JFK assassination because the CIA-did-it crowd claims the CIA produces no evidence whatsoever in covert operations - despite the fact that Diem's death, Guatemala, Mosaddegh, and every other CIA production great and small is documented ad infinitum to an historical certainty.
Jason
Jason, you have moved-on to, just like Paul Trejo, making bogus claims of fact, cherry-picking, as much as is necessary, and beyond, to bail out your bogus theory. Trejo claims that CIA operatives and agents, including E. Howard Hunt did-it. He just claims that they weren't on the clock at 12:30 PM on 11-22-63; it's absurd. Hunt was William Buckley Jr.s boss when they were both CIA and worked in Mexico City. Buckley was The Godfather to Hunts Children. Buckley was a founding member of the Young Republicans For Freedom, the Radical Right group who were the young Turks of the Eastern Establishment. They orchestrated the assassination.
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1 minute ago, Jason Ward said:
Ok, it seems you aren't interested in providing evidence or discussing the death of the president. Me and Paul Trejo are much more interesting?
I'll have to join Paul T. and put you on block now, sorry you found nothing to contribute to the Kennedy case; contact me sometime if you want to discuss JFK instead of me.
regard
Jason
That's fine, Paul Trejo provides no evidence or documentation but that suits you fine. More bizarreness.
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6 minutes ago, Jason Ward said:
You are responding here for what purpose then?
Mainly, because I agree with Paul B's point that you and Trejo have gone way too far with your insinuation that it is the two of you against everyone else. Everyone else hardly agrees on much at all, except conspiracy, which you and Trejo agree with. It's bizarre, and annoying.
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Just now, Jason Ward said:
You complained of me. I complain of no one. I'm not the one who has thrice now said words to the effect "you are getting old...you agree too much with Paul T."
Jason
Jason, you preach straight from Paul Trejo's tired worn-out boring and annoying claim to know what everyone else is thinking. You've repeated that lament a number of times in your last few posts.
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1 minute ago, Jason Ward said:
Fine. I don't speak for Paul T and I don't you are claiming to either. What I have to say to him, I say to him - I don't make a habit of speaking about others in the third person.
I see no evidence of E H Hunt's involvement in the assassination except for the death-bed testimony of an aged man - as recorded by his lazy, manipulative son. St John Hunt would make up anything and everything, including implicating his own dad in the murder of Kennedy, if it meant he didn't have to work for a living. So me and Paul disagree about that.
Morales and Phillips - eh, I don't think me and Paul are far off on their roles. Whatever they may have done was IMO not essential and in no case were they working for the CIA in their efforts.
Jason
That's just a bunch of convenient talk, speculation and denial.
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2 minutes ago, Jason Ward said:
If it's old, then ignore it. You aren't forced to participate on this thread or with me. Plenty of other people are around who will agree with anything cospiratorial without a shred of evidence.
What you say is not true - you haven't read the entire thread here. Several people have said the CIA left nothing to chance. I responded to that and now that we've shown that 100 things were left to chance, these same people are backing off their 'nothing to left to chance' claim that in their mind proves CIA involvement.
It's really a symptom of the whole CIA-FBI-Military Industrial complex-SS-Dulles-plus 1000 others narrative - first they will say "it was so perfect, it could only be the CIA/FBI..." but then they are easily able to recount dozens of mistakes, sloppiness, and even ridiculous incompetence that shows this was a crime that failed and was the work of amateurs. It's a logical snafu they can't ever reconcile - they say we know the CIA/FBI/ etc. did it because it was so perfect and all encompassing, yet in early 64 Mark Lane and Joachim Joesten had 90% of the truth already out there and the eff-ups are everywhere.
In this thread only Paul Trejo has a consistent theory. Most everyone else includes whoever they feel like at any given time - because, hey, why not just add everyone to the conspiracy?
Jason
Just more of the same. Everyone else, besides you and Paul are a bunch of commie pinkos. It's old, worn out and ridiculous. You use lots of "they" "them" and make vague references to what "everyone but you and Paul" are claiming. It's pretty sad and pathetic.
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1 minute ago, Jason Ward said:
If it's old, then ignore it. You aren't forced to participate on this thread or with me.
Jason
Likewise
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5 minutes ago, Jason Ward said:
But, the problem is, I see no evidence of what you call "the Northeast establishment" with their "own CIA experience and expertise" in ANY aspect of the assassination whatsoever. Can you summarize your Northeast establishment connection and the CIA connection to 19 Nov 63?
regards
Jason
I agree that Hunt, Morales, as well as the Radical Right YAF were involved. That is the Northeast Establishment connection. Hunt,, Morales and Buckley were CIA.
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1 minute ago, Jason Ward said:
Well, Michael, at least it seems we are somewhat in agreement.
You acknowledge the documents I've posted; great, that's unusual. You see a role for Walker et al. in the radical right; and we disagree on the extent of the role and whether or not they were leaders or actors or followers. Fine. That's reasonable. I'm actually somewhat closer to your position that you might think.
But, the problem is, I see no evidence of what you call "the Northeast establishment" with their "own CIA experience and expertise" in ANY aspect of the assassination whatsoever. Can you summarize your Northeast establishment connection and the CIA connection to 19 Nov 63?
regards
Jason
Jason, Paul holds a number of these people as culpable, like E H Hunt, Morales and Phillips, he just calls them rogues, so he can be in denial of involvement of intelligence agencies and the fact of a coup de ta. I'm not sure how close you are to Trejo with that but you could clarify that.
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16 minutes ago, Jason Ward said:
Paul, this is not true.
I don't make up strawmen.
There is more than one post in this thread from those who believe as you who say that the CIA "left nothing to chance."
May I ask that you limit the discussion to evidence and not me or Paul Trejo, please?
Jason
Jason, you seem to hold the exclusive contract in maintaining Paul's obscure claims. He never provides evidence or documents, only his opinion. Yet, you demand documents from everyone but your compadre.
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1 minute ago, Jason Ward said:
Paul B, I of course speak only for myself and not Paul T.
If I saw any distinction whatsoever in what you are claiming, I would acknowledge it. But there is in fact no one I could name in the CIA, FBI, SS, military, or Big Business that you would deny conspiratorial involvement, or say "no - they had nothing to do with it."
Anyone and everyone is a conspirator. The more the merrier, in fact. I don't see any distinction between the CIA, the hard right, big business, Hoover, the FBI, and so forth from what you've said here, nor from most of the others who subscribe to the mass-conspiracy-government-military-industrial-complex cast of 1000s narrative. The only thing required to unmask a conspirator is -apparently- a youtube video or even just a post on a forum. I see no distinctions. If they're accused, they're guilty.
If you can pinpoint any distinctions in your ideas, I'd be happy to acknowledge it.
Jason
Jason, Mr. Brancato is correct You and Trejo incessantly rely on false claim about what others here think to distinguish yourselves. It has gotten very old, and you are relatively new here.
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17 minutes ago, Jason Ward said:
If you're not willing to do better than that we can politely end our discussion with one another on this point.
Evidence is witness testimony and documented with primary sources. There's 2million plus documents at Mary Ferrell, there's the Library of Congress online; evidence is available to anyone anywhere. Easily. It isn't hard to find. I ask you to provide evidence or agree that you to decline to do so and there is nothing more for us to discuss.
regards
Jason
The Dallas right and racist elements if the south played a passive role, ignorant of the facts of the plot. They were to create noise and flood all channels, of rumors and expectations of the plot, such that it could not be detected, amidst the din of speculation, fear and indeed, hope of an assassination, and it would be difficult to uncover after the assassination due to a surfeit of leads. The Radical Right, like the the Young Americans For Freedom, E. H. Hunt and William Buckley Junior purveyed the approval and cover from the Northeast establishment and brought in their own CIA experience and expertise.
Jason, you documents, the ones I've read, testify to what I just stated. The JBS, KKK and southern leadership councils, provided smoke and mirrors, and disposed of witnesses, journalists and evidence, after the fact. That is all.
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25 minutes ago, Paul Brancato said:
Agree David. Why do you suppose Trejo wants to paint our view of JFK as being because we are deluded lefty socialists?
I've come to the conclusion that Paul Trejo thinks he is some kind of genius of great proportions. He has to paint everyone else into marginal spaces, in his own mind, to perpetuate his psersonal myth, about himself, to himself. It's rather perverse and indecent. I wish the wagon waould finally come for him. It's a good thing children don't frequent this forum.
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On 8/19/2017 at 6:49 PM, Michael Clark said:
Jason, The film seems to be far too short to be complete. If someone was on vacation, would this be all that they took home with them? It has enough in it, and is short enough, to assume that there is more.The chances of a simple vacationer taking a few short sections of film that show Walkers house after the fake-hit on him, and Oswald leafleting in NOLA are as infinitesimal as it gets.
Specifically, and presumptively, and only as an example, the LHO-leafleting clip would have a larger perspective of who was involved in the JFKA (Morales? Other perps that would show up at Watergate?). Does the full length film show other "passengers" on the plane. Who else was in the film of Walkers house? This could be enough to shut Perps up.
I'll place this in the perspective of my double-cross CT. This film, in it's entirety, might have been used, by Dallas money, industrialists and cops, to keep CIA element-perp-rogues and Anti-Castro Cubans from expecting follow-through on the Cuban invasion.
In short, this film is not complete and it suggests much more. What are we not seeing?
Agreed, Paul.
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38 minutes ago, Paul Trejo said:
Mathias,
I'm not familiar with the story of WerBell. Does it seem relevant to the thesis of a Radical Right plot to assassinate JFK?
Regards,
--Paul TrejoThe question is, is your thesis relevant? So yes, if it disspells your myth, Paul Trejo, it is relevant. You seem to think that your myth has become fact.
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"Texas Titans, selfish MIC Oligarchs and Old Money," = the Bush "Dynasty".
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5 hours ago, Paul Trejo said:
David,
............
To imagine that JFK was a "friend of the people" is to take a one-sided view of the politics of 1963.
.............
Regards,
--Paul TrejoJFK had a true "World View" and was a friend of the world. If that excluded Texas Titans, selfish MIC Oligarchs and Old Money, who had in-mind the "enslavement of half the world" (JFK's words), then yes, Paul Trejo, JFK's view was one-sided, ignoring a handful of bastards whom you appear to admire.
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33 minutes ago, Tom Hume said:
Hi Michael,
.......
Why do you ask?
........
Tom
The coincidentalist in me wonders how he, on a boat from the USA to England, ends up being declared dead, and subsequently buried, in a Greek port; on January 17, 1964. His papers lie in a Houston, Texas univiserity. His background is odd. It would be interesting to see his US book-tour schedule.
Please forgive the off-topic poke.
cheers,
Michael
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40 minutes ago, George Sawtelle said:
Jason
I hope you're not trying to give Allen Dulles the Nuremberg defense, i.e., he is not guilty of murder because he was ordered by his boss. It didn't go over then and it won't go over now.
Allen Dulles is not the Mr. Nice Guy that you think he is.
George, that's what I am seeing. One step from endorsing the JFK assassination itself. I've felt the same vibe from Trejo as well.
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Tom, do you have any interest in this fellow? (I've had a CT'er's curiosity about him, but no place to offer it, I figured I would insert a blurb here)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/T._H._White
White died of heart failure on 17 January 1964 aboard ship in Piraeus (Athens, Greece), en route to Alderney from a lecture tour in the United States.[2] He is buried in First Cemetery of Athens. In 1977 The Book of Merlyn, a conclusion to The Once and Future King, was published posthumously. His papers are held by the University of Texas at Austin.[12]
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17 minutes ago, Jason Ward said:
Hi Andrej,
Thanks for jumping in the conversation!
Ruth Paine, Lille Mae Randle, Buell Frazier, Roy Truly all verified the way and reason Oswald got the job. You honestly believe all of these people are in on the conspiracy?
You believe that Ruth Paine is the first and last person in the history of humanity to be a a CIA agent for which not one shred of documentary or testimonial evidence exists? The only "evidence" Ruth Paine is in contact with the CIA exists in the fertile minds of conspiracy theoriests - whenever there is missing evidence without which their pet theory falls apart, the default answer becomes "it was CIA, of course there is no evidence." Convenient. There are millions of CIA documents that verify easily every CIA agent, contact, asset, informant -- I work with them everyday.
Ruth Paine was nothing more than what she says she was.
I appreciate your kind conversation, although of course I disagree!
regards
Jason
Jason, you are really sounding like you are a pickle from the same jar as Trejo. One of his many, but noteworthy, put-offs, is lumping everyone that doesn't buy his bunk as a CIA did-it CT'r. Feel free to grate your fellow forum members if you want to, just letting you know in case you missed it.
Did the Dallas Radical Right kill JFK?
in JFK Assassination Debate
Posted
By "his/our conservative movement", Douglas Caddy is referring to the YAF, the Young Americans for Freedom, the Radical Right.... the Young Turks; the reckless, murderous hands of the Northeast Establishment.