Michael Clark

On 11/8/2005 at 12:14 AM, Shanet Clark said:

Nosenko and the Orchid runner need a history book about them.

Cram wrote one but it is classified.

OF COURSE EPSTEIN has a conventional spin, we all know that

READ BETWEEN THE LINES

IF LEGEND:OSWALD is even halfway true, then DeMorenschildt was running Marina as an Agent,

and Oswald was a counterdefector in touch with his wifes counterintelligence handlers................

Oswald was a MANCHURIAN CANDIDATE

and if the Russians weren't running him, then the NAVY was

I quoted Shanet for no real critical purpose. I am just bumping the thread to ask a queastion.

For those of you who really have a grasp of the Angleton "mole hunt" details. Let me ask this because it popped into my head and stayed there, and it kind of defines part of my CT. Yet I see the Mole hunt as a rabbit hole, and I don't care to become an expert on it. So, my question is....

Does the folllowing hypothesis make sense, given the "mole hunt" evidence:

That is: Angleton's behavior and actions may well describe and actually be, in some way, a mole hunt. But could this actually all be his reaction to the Two Oswald / Doplleganger scenario? Is it possible that JJA's confusion about where LHO was and what he was doing, as compared to what he was supposed to be doing and what he was told Lee was doing, led JJA to take actions to find out what was going on with LHO, his handlers, and the people that were messing with him (JJA), and plans, and operations?

To be sure, in my working theory, JJA was not a conspirator in the plan to kill JFK. He was stovepiped from the JFKA op, and kept off guard, off balanced, confused, and he ultimately appeared to be complicit.

Does  this make any sense?

22 minutes ago, Kathy Beckett said:

Cliff, I have too. It just doesn't come up for me.

Same here

10 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

Are you talking about google-links-on-iPad versus google-links-on-a-PC? Or shortcut-on-iPad versus google-links-on-iPad?

 

I did a search for a topic heading from a JFKassassinationforum topic on my ipad. I came to the google search results page, on my iPad. I clicked on a search result link of that JFKassassinationforum topic, on my IPad. That brought me to the nasty page. I just tried it again, and it did not happen this time. No Windows machines received their well-deserved whooping during these operations.

On my iPad I was able to go straight to the forum. Following google links took me to the nasty site.

In my theory, the pretext of the Cuban invasion was to encourage the Anti Castro Cubans to do it. The planted evidence of Pro Cuban conspiracy was brushed away, after the fact. The pre-text for war against Cuba was only to be invoked if a conspiracy could not be denied and other domestic players were revealed as part of the Conspiracy. I agree with Sandy that the final impetus for killing JFK was what some regarded as treason for considering detente, but specifically he was killed because giving-up Guantanamo would have been part of that detente, unlesss another Batista-like strongman, bolstered by Mafia led criminal elements came to power once again. If a lone-nut could be blamed, Cuba could rot in isolation and we would keep Guantanamo.

The strength of my theory is that many of those things did in fact happen. A lone-nut was blamed, no invasion occurred, half century of isolating Cuba ensued, Guantanamo was retained, Mafia interests never got their off-shore havens back, and researchers are left wondering why the lone-nut was framed in the way that more resembled a conspiracy.

As poorly done as it was, and ultimately insufficient for historical purposes, evidence for conspiracy in Dealy Plaza was wiped-away. I am certain that another conspirator-patsy was killed, but the body was disappeared.

3 minutes ago, Roger DeLaria said:

I wonder if "the best man we have", according to Dulles, was Lansdale. He wore an Air Force uniform, at least at that point I think he did.

Interesting Roger. The "Best man", however, referred to McCord. The Air Force "Colonel" as Landsdale is an interesting suggestion, indeed!.

17 minutes ago, B. A. Copeland said:

I could read this stuff all day, every day...it makes 99% of these television spy dramas a disney kids show. Thanks for the elaboration with sources Dave.

Mike I found this relevant to your comment:

 

(source: https://www.maryferrell.org/pages/State_Secret_Chapter6.html) 

Thanks so much Mr. Copeland. I may actually read Simpich's book. Do you know if Simpich mentions James McCord Jr. In relation to the FPCC?

Thanks for this and all of your posts and input.

Cheers,

Michael

3 minutes ago, Paul Trejo said:

Michael,

Yes, it's implicit.  

Since the CIA high command started a Mole Hunt, this proves that they had NO IDEA who Impersonated Lee Harvey Oswald in Mexico City.

That proves IMHO that the Impersonator was a CIA Rogue who was working in a Civilian plot.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

How does this prove that there was a civilian plot?

6 minutes ago, Paul Trejo said:

Bill Simpich's work (2014) shows that Whitten clearly had no "need to know" about the top secret CIA Mole Hunt involving the 201 File of Lee Harvey Oswald.

Perhaps, Paul Trejo, you could demonstrate how Simpch clearly demonstrated that. Please spare-us your dramatics and your opinions. Just present a quote or passage that illustrates that which you claim Bill Simpich claims.

10 hours ago, Paul Trejo said:

If (and only if) I am right, then your CT as stated here has no support. 

Brilliant, "you're wrong, because I am right" lol

10 hours ago, Paul Trejo said:

Guy Banister is the key to the Mexico City episode.  The political resumé carried to Mexico City by Oswald, claiming membership in the Fake FPCC in NOLA, and in the CPUSA, is conclusive evidence in my reading.

And the CIA is nowhere to be seen in Paul Trejo's fiction about LHO's sheep-dipping in NOLA. 

"McCord worked for the Central Intelligence Agency, ultimately ascending to a GS-15 position in the Agency's Office of Security. For a period of time, he was in charge of physical security at the Agency's Langley headquarters; according to Russ Baker, then-Director of Central Intelligence Allen Dulles once introduced McCord to an Air Force colonel as "the best man we have".^[5]   In 1961, and under his (James McCord jr.'s) direction, a counter-intelligence program was launched against the Fair Play for Cuba Committee.^[6"

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_W._McCord_Jr.

And as far as Jack Ruby's motivations go, it seems likely that there must have been evidence tying him or higher level Jewish mobsters to the conspiracy as well, possibly in MC. 

5 hours ago, David Lifton said:

 

So let me explain, and I'd  be interested in the reaction of those who have spent so many hours studying this particular puzzle.

A NEW AND DIFFERENT HYPOTHESIS ABOUT THE MYSTERY MAN PHOTOS

............

DSL

11/12/2017 - 8:20 p.m. PST; Revised, 9:20 p.m. PST

David, My theory is similar to yours. I believe that LHO was in MC at some point, and made rounds that are similar to that described in the testimony of Sylvia Odio. The intention was to tie LHO to Cuba and, as some conspirators thought and desired, an attack and liberation of Cuba would occur. However, one element of the conspiracy was not interested in liberating Cuba, and that party did as you say; they swapped out the incriminating LHO / Cuba evidence and perhaps swapped-in evidence pointing to Russian and even US intelligence involvement. Of course, this evidence could not be used or persued as a war with  Russia or an internal investigation was not desirable.

The reason for this change of plans, (and I say this at the risk of coming-off similar to Trejo, constantly yapping about my pet CT) was to double-cross the Anti Castro Cuban and Mafia element of the conspiracy. It had been decided that it was not in the interest of this faction to liberate Cuba, give the Mob their gambling haven in Havana, or renegotiate or vacate Guantanamo. It was decided that a perpetually antagonistic relationship with Cuba was preferable to a return to a free, Mafia infested Cuba and risk the loss of Guantanamo. So my theoretical perps who double-crossed the Anti-Castro Cubans and the Mafia were a Right Wing, anti Catholic, racist, southern industrial and Naval faction. 

So, Making some evidence disappear in MC, and burying evidence of conspiracy in Dealy Plaza was all that was needed to thwart the wishes of the Mafia and Anti-Castro Cubans.

Michael

These are some very worthwhile videos. 

Dr. Nick Begich (son of the congressman who disappeared on an airplane trip along with Warren Comission member and Congressman, Hale Boggs) with some fascinating observations which are relevant to this topic.

On 4/22/2017 at 5:59 AM, Steve Thomas said:

Michael,

 

Quoting someone named, Michael Clark:

 

"The term is "Future Shock". While the term usually has more to do with the impact of accelerating industrialism on social psychology, I see, and am searching for, a comparable term that describes the planned, and actual, impact of the JFKA on the American and world psychology."

 

"Future Shock" - that's a good term for it.

 

PS: Thanks for the Cicero quote. Gorious banquet indeed. Didn't like Antony much, did he?

 

Steve Thomas

Steve,  Cicero seemed to have been laying bare his contempt while at the same time offering the possibility of reconciliation. Fickle politics if you ask me, but it seems rather familiar now.

I came back to this thread to post something and noticed that this topic was left hanging. Anyway, it's always good to read your posts.

Cheers.

1 hour ago, David Andrews said:

Stone said that he was conflating the two characters.  I suppose it does suggest the rarefied air in the Dulles Corridor - though Angleton kept his precious pets at home, in a hothouse.

Don't get me wrong - there's still a lot to like in Nixon, which has a perverse fascination for me as filmmaking.

One of Stone's problems - his response to the laws of big-budget filmmaking - is that he rushes into, and rushes through, projects before the scripts and the edits get judicious consideration for merit and appeal.  (Think of Hargraves and Hemming dictating the Dealey Plaza scenes to him on the spot during JFK, and the re-writes and ad-libs that ensued.)  Then his "Director's Cut" video edits wind up throwing in the kitchen sink.  The Nixon DVD suffers from that - at least a half-hour of the family tuberculosis saga in black-and-white flashbacks, when there's better dramatic material in the Nixon life.  But the real murder victim on DVD is Alexander, whose scenes are rearranged from the tight theatrical version, and padded with so much outtake footage that the film is now unwatchable.

Thanks for the clarification. I am a horrible movie watcher, I find almost no actors believable. All I ever see is five minute clips on YouTube.

18 minutes ago, Douglas Caddy said:

U.S. does not Seek to Clarify Kennedy's Assassination, Expert Says

http://www.plenglish.com/index.php?o=rn&id=20705&SEO=u.s.-does-not-seek-to-clarify-kennedys-assassination-expert-says

 

Escalante is in Turkey to present his book on the assassination of the U.S. president in 1963, which was translated into Turkish, so he made statements to Prensa Latina.

According to Escalante, 'first they accused Cuba and the Soviet Union of the crime without evidence, just due to ideological reasons'; however, the declassified documents, which belong to three institutional committees, did not shed light on the assassination either.

'If there was an iota of truth in those documents, it would have been known a long time ago, but 99 percent of the materials have been declassified and there is nothing, so it seems an aggression against Cuba; that is why, they have tried to prevent or frustrate the declassifications of documents,' he noted.

About Kennedy's assassination, the Cuban researcher questioned its past and pointed out that it was used by U.S. intelligence services to perpetrate a premeditated crime. He assured that 'Lee Harvey Oswald went to the Soviet Union as a deserter but he was already a CIA agent.' 

Shortly after, he decided to return to the United States and 'the first job that he gets in Dallas is in a company that makes the U2's flight maps. How is it possible that a deserter who returns from the Soviet Union is given such a job? Escalante wondered.

Later, Oswald left for New Orleans 'and there, the first thing he did was to contact CIA agents; afterwards, he changes his line of conduct and becomes a supporter of Cuba and starts printing flyers in favor of Cuba; that is, at that time, Oswald has been chosen as the scapegoat, he does not know, but it is like that,' the researcher assured.

The missile crisis in October 1962 changed the political vision of President Kennedy, who sent a commission to Cuba to study the possibility of rapprochement between the two countries, something that, according to Escalante, might have led to his tragic end.

'On June 10, 1963, Kennedy gave an extraordinary speech, a trial against the Cold War, and I think that it was the last straw in the United States, and his assassination was decided,' noted Escalante, for whom 'a CIA sector that was in charge of the aggression against Cuba' was responsible for that crime.

'Kennedy was a man with a different perspective, evidently he realized that he had to change the policy on Cuba,' he added, but the tragic end allowed for the continuity until today of 'that real power, which does not forgive Cuba for the revolution it made, at the doors to the United States'. According to the researcher, 'that aggression will be maintained'.

jg/rc/acm/gdc

56 minutes ago, Paul Trejo said:

Cory,

I appreciate the honest skepticism, as well as your more encouraging words.

By far -- most JFK CTers follow the CIA-did-it CT promoted in the 1960's by Jim Garrison, Mark Lane and Harold Weisberg, and so perhaps 1% of all CTers have claimed that the Radical Right killed JFK.

This means that our muscle needed to move tons of documents from the TBD pile to the DONE pile is only now getting started.

The CIA-did-it CTers, on the other hand, have perhaps 80% of the muscle.  They have had hundreds of researchers, including college professors, laboring like ancient Egyptian slaves -- and after a half-century still have NO PROOF.

So -- in comparison, with so very few people on our team, I don't feel bad in the slightest that we still haven't found the smoking gun.  We have admitted that all along.

But the CIA-did-it CT has simply flopped -- and the LBJ-did-it CT is pitifully weak.  (Barr McClellan said, IIRC, that the reason he is certain that LBJ was the "mastermind" of the JFK assassination, is because LBJ "knew so little about it."  Pitiful!)  The Mafia-did-it CT was rejected by Jim Garrison for good reasons -- even Professor Blakey took back his 1979 theory.  The Cuba-did-it CT was never strong.

Now that the JFK Records Act has dumped 38,000 pages on us, the race is on between the CIA-did-it CTers and the Walker-did-it CTers to find that smoking gun.  You know where my money sits.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Pffffft!

Paul Trejo, where do you come up with this stuff?

"By far -- most JFK CTers follow the CIA-did-it CT promoted in the 1960's by Jim Garrison, Mark Lane and Harold Weisberg, and so perhaps 1% of all CTers have claimed that the Radical Right killed JFK."

You make this stuff out of whole cloth to build your personal myth as pioneer into "part-unknown". It's ridiculous.

Funnier-still is you are leading a charge with, and rallying troops that, are just not there!

Your pretending that you have allies and people who are agreeing with you when they are not. They are just trying to be polite!

lol!

2 minutes ago, Paul Trejo said:

Sandy,

By the time that Sylvia Duran and Eusebio Azcue claimed that they saw a "short, blond" Oswald, Sylvia Duran had already been severely beaten by the Mexico City Police.   The Mexico City scandal rags had published WEEKS of rubbish about sex orgies between Sylvia Duran and Lee Harvey Oswald.

Death threats against Sylvia Duran were incessant.  Threats against the Cuban Embassy increased.  Duran and Azcue just wanted it all to STOP.

Yet both Sylvia Duran and Eusebio Azcue had both seen the New Orleans resumé of Oswald's Fake FPCC claims, complete with newspaper clippings and his PHOTOGRAPH in triplicate.  They saw the person in the chair, and the person in the photograph.

Now -- it is also possible -- perhaps likely -- that the word "blonde" means something different in Mexico where most people have black and brown hair -- and only a few people have light-colored hair.  Here in the USA we have perhaps half of our people with blonde hair, so we reserve that word for "very blonde" people.  That might not apply in Mexico.   Oswald had lighter hair than average in Mexico.

As for the height -- that was inaccurate -- but deliberately inaccurate, I believe -- because Sylvia Duran was TERRORIZED.  She did not want another beating.  She just wanted to distance herself from Lee Harvey Oswald once and for all.

That's the likely explanation.   She saw his photograph.  She knew it was Oswald.  She admitted it earlier -- but the beatings were simply intolerable.  Too much.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Paul Trejo, can you support anything you are saying with evidence, or documentation?

6 minutes ago, Paul Trejo said:

As I've explained previously -- the one and only key to blaming the sheep-dipped Lee Harvey Oswald for the JFK assassination was that the Dallas Police had Oswald's rifle in their possession.   NOTHING ELSE WAS NECESSARY.

Even if Lee Harvey Oswald had been absent from work that day -- as long as the Dallas Police had his rifle, and Oswald was still in Dallas, he could have been shot in cold blood in the streets -- and he could still have been SUCCESSFULLY blamed for the JFK assassination.

That's practically what happened, anyway.

The Dallas Police would have concocted some other nonsense story about how Oswald got from the Dealey Plaza Grassy Knoll to wherever Oswald was shot dead -- with some other fibbing bus driver and some other fibbing bus passenger and some other fibbing taxi driver to fib about seeing Lee Harvey Oswald -- and the public (including the Warren Commission) would have bought the package...

...just as the public bought the current nonsense from the existing WC bus driver, WC bus passenger and WC taxi driver witnesses.  Easy. 

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Paul Trejo said: 

"Even if Lee Harvey Oswald had been absent from work that day -- as long as the Dallas Police had his rifle, and Oswald was still in Dallas, he could have been shot in cold blood in the streets -- and he could still have been SUCCESSFULLY blamed for the JFK assassination."

--------------

That is pure unpure...

What if he was home being nagged by Marina to go out and find a job; or out trying to find a job?

Paul Trejo, you are not sitting, feeding fairy tales to schoolchildren!  What do you think you are doing? Who do you think you are talking to? Are you hoping to be quoted in future Mockingbird sponsored children's' books?

That is all I can figure..... there is no way that you believe your own **.

1 hour ago, Paul Trejo said:

Paul B.,

Bill Simpich (2014) fully and completely explained why the CIA in 1963 and afterwards SUPPRESSED all photographs of Lee Harvey Oswald in Mexico City.

It has been more than a HALF-CENTURY -- and the likelihood, in my opinion, is that the original photographs are now missing in action.

Edwin Lopez said (under oath, on camera) that Lee Harvey Oswald was certainly in Mexico City in September 1963 -- "certainly" -- and yet he admits with equal certainty that he cannot place Oswald in the Embassy compound in Mexico City during those dates precisely because the CIA refused to release any Mexico City photographs of Oswald that the CIA has (or had). 

Nobody outside the CIA has those photographs.  Nobody.    Possibly even the CIA has lost them.

I agree that the FBI would love to show them.  But they remain the property of the CIA (or the CIA has lost them).

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Let's see... what do we have here....

Paul Trejo said: "Pill Simpich (2014) fully and completely explained why the CIA in 1963 and afterwards SUPPRESSED all photographs of Lee Harvey Oswald in Mexico City"

------------------

Ill ask: what is your take, Paul Trejo, on Bill Simpich's take on that? How did he explain that?

Or, do you, as usual, expect the gentle reader to just accept your take on another researcher's take, on something. It's a rhetorical question. The answer is the latter; that is how you roll.

11 hours ago, Michael Walton said:

Ruby said a lot of things.  There is a film clip on YTV where a reporter on the street asked him something like (paraphrasing here) "who did it (murder JFK)" and his reply was something like:

"If Stevenson had been VP at the time, this would have never happened" or something like that. In other words, LBJ did it.

The point though is *someone* got him to kill Oswald.  All of the hooey about him doing it for Jackie is pure BS. Oswald was most probably supposed to die in the theater when he was arrested when he flipped out with the pistol.  When that didn't happen, there was panic and rather than try to make it look like a "it just so happened" death for Oswald (in other words, "crazed assassin pulls pistol and is gunned down by heroic cops") they said - what the xxxx just get someone in there and silence him.  Which is what happened. Amazingly it happened on live TV for all the world to see. The funny thing, too, about the LHO murder is it's almost as if they didn't give a xxxx any more about making it look like a normal act.  In other words, get the deed done and then we'll come up with an excuse for it ("he did it for Jackie") later, which is why that excuse is so lame when you really think about it.

But as for Ruby's affiliations and related to this thread, I find it very hard to believe that Paul's T's love theme (sorry Paul, you're a nice guy but a little too obssessed with this radical right thing) that the radical right did the job on JFK and LHO.  Bill Simpich's State Secret is the key - you can see the machinations taking place.  LHO was a low level mark for the intel community and upon leaving Russia, at the time they didn't quite know what else to do with him.

When the signal was given for Dallas, it was simple matter of building up the "crazed communist" narrative, moving him around like a chess piece, until 11/22.  I find it very hard to believe that the right could have had this much imagination and initiative to pull something like this off.

To be sure.

12 hours ago, Paul Trejo said:

Michael,

I agree with you on several points.  

(1) That *someone* got Ruby to kill Oswald. Paul Trejo agrees with a brilliant deduction.

(2) That Ruby admitted in a separate interview that Ruby's lawyer told Ruby to tell the press that he did it for Jackie. Paul is "agreeing" with Michael Walton, about something that Michael did not say happened. Michael never mentioned lawyers. 

(3) That Oswald was supposed to die in the streets (or the theater). We are all so relieved that Paul Trejo agrees with us on this point.

(4) Seth Kantor also agrees -- the Dallas cops pressured Jack Ruby to kill the COP-KILLER, Lee Harvey Oswald. I don't think that Michael  mentioned anything about this point, on your list of agreements with Michael. Perhaps Paul Trejo would care to share a quote regarding this; if it's relavent; since, you know, it has no place on your list of agreements with Michael Walton.

(5) The Dallas Police stopped caring that this was on Live TV, because they were in one hell of a pickle by now. Brilliant, Paul, thanks for agreeing.

(6) Bill Simpich's State Secret (2014) is indeed the key -- Bill Simpich demonstrates with his CIA Mole Hunt discovery that the CIA had NO CLUE about who Impersonated Oswald over Mexico City's most wire-tapped telephone!

Paul, the last time you chimed in on this, you said it was the most wiretapped phone in the world. What's wrong? Not feeling it tonight?

I do disagree, of course, on your suggestion that the Dallas Radical Right COULD NOT HAVE killed both JFK and Lee Harvey Oswald.

Of COURSE they could!  Of course, Paul Trejo.

I think you grossly underestimate the Radical Right.  Have you read anything by, for example, Professor Revilo P. Oliver -- one of the regular writers for the John Birch Society?  He was the final person to testify for the Warren Commission.  He's an excellent fibber. 

I'll take your word on that, Paul Trejo

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Red and bold are my responses.

25 minutes ago, Paul Trejo said:

Mathias,

I could leave this question open, but I like to push the envelope.

The following is my opinion:

1.  John Newman's work (1995) has been surpassed by Bill Simpich's work (2014).

2.  John Newman saw less CIA material than Simpich.  He can be forgiven for a few mistakes here and there.

3.  Even though the Cuban Consulate was closed on Saturday, that did not prevent Sylvia Duran from being there.

4.  It is quote possible that CIA agent David Morales could have bribed her to open the office door and make the call for him.   

5.  In that case, Sylvia Duran would have good reason to deny that it was her.

6.  Otherwise -- let us say that Sylvia Duran was not the caller -- as she claims.  In that case, CIA agent David Morales could have bribed almost any other Consulate worker -- like a cleaning lady -- to open the Consulate and have some other accomplice make the call.

7. You have not ARGUED against the PLAUSIBILITY of my claim just by saying, "Not necessarily!"  

8.  I still believe that Sylvia Duran was the caller -- because she would have known the number to call, and she would have had a firm voice, and would have known exactly what to say.  I propose that Sylvia Duran took money to make that call, which she considered to be 100% harmless.

 

10.  The real JFK killers, in my opinion, did not care how many Shooters people would count -- because the more Communist Shooters the better for their cause 

11.  Only the FBI cared -- the number of Shooters had to be ONE.

12.  Lee Harvey Oswald was the low-hanging fruit among the available Shooters.  Bingo.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Paul Trejo said, above:

9.  As for the TSBD, it was not the only good position for an ambush in Dealey Plaza.  The Grassy Knoll was also EXCELLENT.  Also, there was a storm drain in which a man with a rifle could stand -- MUCH closer than the Grassy Knoll!

----------

 On 11/10/2017 at 2:42 PM,  Paul Trejo said: 

-----------

Paul Trejo, If LHO does not have a job at the TSBD, how does a conspricy count on him being the shooter? Was he expected to spend his time picking up cigarette butts in the parking lot on 11-22?

I await your absurd reply...

In Stone's "Nixon", I have wondered why Helms is implied to have an obsession with orchids, when it is Angleton who is said to have that particular interest: