Ron Bulman
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Posts posted by Ron Bulman
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I believe my earlier mention of a Walker speech should have been a reference to a John Birch Society meeting, and, Michael apparently went to Harvard for 2 years but after some D's and an F did not return.
No new info here on the files but some interesting background on the Paines most here are probably familiar with.
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17 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:
I'd tried to link the ROKC thread and the header for it kept saying something about Buell Wesley Frazier (3x), my technical ineptness at work again. It does digress on the Ruth's babysitter bit for near half of it. I didn't get the connection of her to the files. That thread and your comment about them being domestic surveillance agents quoted by Mr. Simkin are about all I did find regarding comments/discussion on the subject of the files.
I thought ROKC was the source of a 30 second audio clip of Ruth in the 90's talking about the files but I looked there again to link it and can't find it. In it she laughingly tells a small audience that laughs with her (to paraphrase) "they asked me about 6 or 7 boxes of files, I told them of three boxes of record albums and three boxes of my papers from college days". I'm guessing no one raised their hand and asked, Ruth, how did they get those 12 and a half inch Perry Como albums into the small metal file cabinets that would hold a 8 X 10 (11 1/2"?) described by Officer Walthers to the Warren Omission?
I'd read Michael's bio previously, just like the depth of your comment the fact that he went to Harvard went right over my head. How many other engineers at Bell Helicopter in Hurst Texas went to Harvard? How many had his East coast family connections stretching back to the 1700's?
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5 hours ago, David Andrews said:
Plumlee:
Well, as we say in CIA. "There's many, many rogues out there."
If people were saying that at CIA, it tends to sound like a cynical cop-out - just as disingenuous as it sounds coming from Plumlee. Meaning that "many" rogues were sanctioned by authority to carry out policy as cut-outs for the policymakers in office.
"My goodness, all these rogues! Why are we not putting a stop to this? We're up to our a** in rogues, out here!"
I mean. really - how many decades is this dodge supposed to work? Why does it work on you, George? "Rogues" equals "Nobody's guilty."
"Blasted rogues, they've killed our president! Something must be done." But nothing was, until some "rogues" were under subpoena. Why was that, exactly?
If there was a like icon on the site I'd probably have clicked it and remained anonymous. That rouge David Morales, not. That rouge David Phillips, promoted to Chief of the Western Hemisphere.
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1 hour ago, Eddy Bainbridge said:
I watched several of these videos. The one that really interested me is Doug Horne's. The Northwoods document outlining the suggested Joint Chiefs of Staff pretexts for war with Cuba is scary. I could not help imagining the obvious unlisted pretext that may have been implemented.
I would like to know what views people have on this idea ( That the assassination was planned as a pretext for war) Specifically I want to know what stopped it working? I have never read a plausible answer to that. Could Oswald have inadvertently stopped war, by sounding sane/ calm\believable in the brief TV appearances, and thus spooking the conspirators. Or, was the problem a mess- up in the Mexico City cover story, again spooking the conspirators. What spooked the conspirators?
One of the first articles to come out on the assassination was in a paper within the anti Castro community in Florida accusing him of being behind it. It was written by someone who was a member of or had connections to one of the anti Castro revolutionary groups. I don't think it was DRE or Alpha 66 but there was something about CIA funding. These people were still hoping for and basically promoting a war with Cuba. Maybe this was pushed by a "rouge" agent and those in upper levels had other ideas. Who knows for sure? Personally I think attacking Cuba was the one thing Johnson might have squashed before it could ever get off the ground. He didn't want his Presidency to start off with a possible nuclear war involving Russia. Now if Oswald had been killed escaping and pegged as Russian defector that was pro Castro, all bets are off...
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On 7/15/2017 at 0:50 PM, Ron Bulman said:
http://www.stepbystep.com/JFK-50th-Anniversary-The-Eyes-of-Texas-Pt-1-126022/
Looking for part two.
Found it. Interesting story and perspective. A bit of a skewed ending.
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3 minutes ago, Michael Clark said:
Ron, Nothing solid here, but it may prod somebody's memory, but I believe I read that Michael Paine was identified, through pictures, as a person who was querying students at a local university regarding their political positions. IIRC, Michael was doing this anonymously or under cover. He was gathering intelligence on students, essentially.
Thanks for spurring my memory. In looking for info on the subject I did come across something about Michael doing such. I'm pretty sure it was on the SMU campus but I can't tell you where I read it at the moment.
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The first thread I posted on in the forum, Where's Ruth's Couch by Chris Newton contained a link that led to this picture I'd never seen.
http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10897#relPageId=11&tab=page
I got excited when I saw two, two drawer file cabinets in the lower right part of the picture. I thought are these the file cabinets I've read somewhere about a Dallas cop taking files from about pro Castro supporters? Files that had disappeared? Those in the picture were too big for Oswald to be toting around from Fort worth to Dallas to New Orleans, and Ruth back to Dallas since he came back from Russia. No, those are not the files I'd read of, somewhere, sometime. Dallas County Deputy Sherriff Buddy Walthers confiscated those on 11/22/63 and turned them over to Captain Will Fritz at the Dallas Police Department. I've been looking and found nothing about them ever being seen since. In his Warren Hearing testimony Walthers describes them as "little metal file cabinets...they would carry an 8 by 10 (11 1/2?) folder...but with a single handle on top of it".
https://www.jfk-assassination.com/warren/wch/vol7/page548.php
While he denies looking in them at one point near the end he remembers a letter head Michael Paine pointed out as "from the people he writes to in Russia".
He also mentions the files in his report on 11/22/63.
http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh19/html/WH_Vol19_0269b.htm
My contention is these files belonged to The Paines. Between their family ties to intelligence and Michaels taking Lee to ACLU meetings, then a general Walker speech (???) and more this seems more plausible than the claim that they belong to Oswald.
In Michel Paines bio here on the forum Mr. Simkin quotes Jim Di Eugino about the files. While I've found a little more info, not much. Any help would be appreciated.
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And perjury is a "badge of honor".
https://whowhatwhy.org/2015/12/27/why-cias-richard-helms-lied-about-oswald-part-2/
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5 hours ago, Chris Bristow said:
"Where was the "boxcar" that the tramps were found in? The Hughes film gives a good view of the yard and shows 3 pullman cars. Were they supposed to be behind the other cars?
There are multiple stories, statements and testimony about 3 tramps arrested being taken off a box car or cars in the immediate aftermath of the assassination in the rail switching yard next to the TSBD when the DPD and the Dallas Sherriff's office flooded it. Somewhere between 12:35-40 and about 1:00. It's been argued elsewhere that the shadows in the photo's of "The" three tramps indicate they were taken 1-2 hours later. I'm not pushing a theory here. It's pretty conclusive three men were arrested in the rail yard shortly after the assassination. Given the obfuscation and lack of investigation by the Warren Omission and their investigative arms, the FBI and CIA which stonewalled them as well as the Dallas Police Department and County Sherriff's Office it seems Possible that Maybe a second set of "tramps" were brought in from a rail car search an hour or two after the first bunch. Though never "arrested" or booked. Kind of like Jim Braden, I mean Eugene Hale Brading, the California convict "oil man" (cover?) passing through Dallas that day on his way to the big Oil city of New Orleans. Arrested coming out of the Dal-Tex building right after the assassination as being suspicious, then released. Because technology at the time didn't connect Braden to Brading, or... Go figure. (Brading had his name legally changed to Braden prior to 63, thus no link to his long rap sheet).
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I thought I remembered John Judge and the Committee on Political Assassinations trying to fight the city of Dallas on this (as one of the last fights of his life). There was more elsewhere (Dallas Observer had multiple articles over close to a year) but a quick web search failed to find them. I hate to use fox news as a source but it's the best of what I found quickly.
Edit. Here's a informative D.O. article on the subject that broaches the COPA attempt at participation. Three options, none happened.
http://www.dallasobserver.com/news/dallas-still-wants-to-control-speech-on-jfk-anniversary-6429117
Makes me think of this song.
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I've never been to Dealy Plaza on 11/22. I live about 130 miles away. When news of the 50th first came out I told myself I'm going. Then it turned out access was restricted, you had to register. Drivers license #, SSN, seems like some other form of ID, birth certificate or a drop of blood (?). Nope. If the government wants to know about my piss ant ass they already have all that info. They didn't give James Tague a ticket and he was wounded there on 11/22/63. Sad. What a Bad joke of an excuse for a ceremony honoring JFK.
Watching it on tv was depressing. They never showed the grassy knoll, had it blocked from view. Total control, no researchers or common citizens allowed. As has been said elsewhere before, if they had that kind of police protection in Dealy Plaza on 11/22/63, we would not be having this conversation.
I posted this the night of 11/21/13 on http://jfkfacts.org/
Jeff let it stand. It still applies to today, as it did then to 63.
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Rereading parts of Survivors Guilt. SSA Kellerman in the front seat, irregardless of his of his lack of an attempt to protect JFK was up front with the Warren Omission. "Flurry of shells"' is well quoted, "There have got to be more than three shots, gentlemen" was not. He told them straight up, from the hot seat. They didn't investigate, they ignored it.
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2 hours ago, Chris Newton said:
I think there's much more to this. There was a concerted effort by all involved to distance themselves from any foreknowledge.
My own suspicions at this time could include potentially embarrassing revelations about who knew what prior to 11/22/63. No one can claim that anything stored in that garage was 'secure'. When James P Hosty allegedly visited Ruth Paine, alone, on Nov. 1st and "shot the breeze" with Ruth while sitting on the couch in the living room., did Ruth mention that all Oswald's stuff was in the garage? Why the hell not? Of course, we have their testimony that they didn't and just because something defies logic doesn't mean it's untrue.
My naivety becomes me Chris. Did not realize Hosty came into the house on 11/1, sat on the couch and shot the breeze with Ruth. Oh but to be a fly on the wall. With no Michael or Lee to intervene? Of course Marina could not understand English at the time, wink, ah, wink. Did Hosty leave a report on this or testify about it?
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22 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:
David, I'm wondering if you have ever read anything about a second set of tramps being found in a grain car South of the triple underpass about an hour and a half after the assassination. This may have been hashed out and debunked on the forum before, if so, you or anyone please direct me there. What I read on line 4-5 years ago was about after the search of the railroad yard was deemed complete 1:30-2:00 lee Bowers was allowed to release a train headed Southbound (towards Reunion Arena now). As it proceeded South over the triple underpass and beyond Bowers noticed men run to it and jump on a grain car from the East side of the tracks, South of the triple underpass, near the West end of the Postal Annex building and it's parking lot. He stopped the train, called the police back, told them which car. Three men found hunkerd down/dug in to the grain in an open topped car, only observable from above. The really intriguing part was police reports supporting the story. Wish I could remember where I read this, relatively sure I didn't dream it and I'm not making it up.
Apologies David. I was fishing last night. Hoping you might answer but using you as bait also that someone else might bite if not. I'm somewhat embarrassed to reveal the source my post is based on and hoped someone else might. Mr. Caddy linked it on the forum at the time it came out on. The one post to his link by Tom Hume was to reply this is not related to his thread of the same name.
The book The Oswald Code by AJ Weberman is junk. Yes, that Bob Dylan dumpster diving Weberman (a real researcher, unlike me, in an e-mail, called him a "kook"). The book has no table of contents, source notes, end notes, appendix, index, nothing. It is jumbled, jumps back and forth about Gerry Patrick Hemming said this to he said that with comments from Sturgis/Fiorini thrown in randomly. I bought the book based on information on the website about it, and, Weberman being co author of coup DeEtat in America from 1975. When I read the on line version of That book in the 2000's I thought it was revolutionary for it's implications of the CIA at the time of it's publication. I've read it was inspirational to Henry Gonzalez in his pursuit of the establishment of the House Sub Committee on Assassinations.
The website for the book "The Oswald Code" provides more relevant information, more cohesively presented than the book. But you have to look for it even there.
Wade through or skip this and click on the link at the bottom View Documents.
http://theoswaldcode.com/index2.htm
Scroll down to the "Second Three Tramps Detained".
The Sheriff Deputy Elkins deposition on 11/26/63, the statements of officers Roy Vaughn and Marvin Wise to the HSCA support the dispatcher recorded time of 1:56-1:58 of being sent to or alerted of the end of Shorecrest Drive/ down by Union Station (location of Reunion Arena now). 1:00-2:00, 2:30 is mentioned as well as a mile, half mile, 300-400, 700 yards South of the rail yard, Bowers control tower, the triple overpass are all mentioned.
I'd Almost say in spite of the source the information it's worthy of consideration.
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6 hours ago, Larry Hancock said:
Going to say this just one more time; locate and read Prouty's extended interview with the ARRB in terms of his remarks about Dallas, about the "stand down" and other related topics. It will give you the needed context to evaluate this aspect of the tramps discussion.
I googled Fletcher Prouty, ARRB and Fletcher Prouty Assassinations Records Review Board, got box 5 of ___ files (left name at work), no way to access. Have not tried to look at MFF. Any ideas where to look? Not Trying to be a pest, curious about the "needed context". Grin, RB.
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On 4/3/2017 at 0:36 PM, David Josephs said:
From what I could tell from the evidence...
The three "tramps" in DP were indeed let go by Decker while the three records of arrest for Gedney, Abrams and Doyle refer to three other people who spent a couple days in Jail that weekend... the 2 separate stories of the two sets of tramps leads me to the question - why parade these three thru DP at all and why lie about who the DPD personnel were?
Ofc Harkness is the only one who acknowledges more than just those three were taken from the trains that day - last paragraph
Middleton was named as one of the arresting officers - except he wasn't at work, according to him
And neither Bush or Chambers recalls being involved with these three reports that weekend - I believe they were created and found well after the fact...
David, I'm wondering if you have ever read anything about a second set of tramps being found in a grain car South of the triple underpass about an hour and a half after the assassination. This may have been hashed out and debunked on the forum before, if so, you or anyone please direct me there. What I read on line 4-5 years ago was about after the search of the railroad yard was deemed complete 1:30-2:00 lee Bowers was allowed to release a train headed Southbound (towards Reunion Arena now). As it proceeded South over the triple underpass and beyond Bowers noticed men run to it and jump on a grain car from the East side of the tracks, South of the triple underpass, near the West end of the Postal Annex building and it's parking lot. He stopped the train, called the police back, told them which car. Three men found hunkerd down/dug in to the grain in an open topped car, only observable from above. The really intriguing part was police reports supporting the story. Wish I could remember where I read this, relatively sure I didn't dream it and I'm not making it up.
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To summarize from "Mary's Mosaic" starting on pg. 169. 1942, Cord graduates early with Yale's highest honor (skull & bones too?). Enlists in Marine Corps OCS, looses eye and brother in WWII. 1945, chosen to be an aide to former Minnesota Governor Harold Stassen, delegate to the San Francisco conference to establish the United Nations. Wife Mary went to report for UPI. JFK had met her as a teenager at a dance. He was covering the event as a reporter for the Chicago Herald-American. Purportedly JFK was still infatuated with Mary and Cord took offense. Small world for Ivy leaguers. Pg. 172 "Realizing Cord's position as a principal liaison to U.S. delegate Harold Stassen, Jack wanted to interview him for one of his press filings, but Cord snubbed him, declining the invitation. Jack never forgot the dismissal; years later, when Cord wanted out of the CIA and solicited Kennedy for the ambassadorship to Guatemala, the President ignored him".
Pg. 191. 1967. "Ramparts magazine would expose Cord as director of the CIA's notorious Operation Mockingbird... During the 1950's, an estimated three thousand salaried and contract employees were engaged in propaganda efforts." ...Phillip Graham - WaPo... "Under Cord's tutelage, Mockingbird became a stunning success. Whenever the CIA wanted a news story slanted in a particular direction, it got it. This amounted to subversion of democracy's most precious cornerstone, the free press. Secretly controlling the media had proven to be one of the CIA's most powerful tools. The agency didn't take kindly to being found out."
Note: Pg. 340. Paraphrase, author Peter Janney's dad, co worker Wistar Janney, high level employee of the CIA since it's inception, old friend of Cord Meyer called to inform him of his wife's death. Peter thinks his dad knew about her death before it happened.
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On 7/10/2017 at 3:37 PM, Kirk Gallaway said:
Prior to Hunt's deathbed "confession", the only thing I had ever heard about Cord Meyer concerning the Kennedy assassination was his response in his later life when asked who killed his ex-wife and he purportedly said "the same people who killed Kennedy". The first I had ever heard of his direct involvement was from Hunt.
Regarding the latter, some speculate the CIA killed his ex wife. Was this in a sense a confession on his part? His statement makes me think of Angleton, "A mansion has ???, but I'm not privy to who shot John". Regarding the first part, I guess I've never fully read Hunt's death bed confession, I know not the son's book. I didn't know he mentioned Meyer in the confession.
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2 hours ago, George Sawtelle said:
Andrej
The FBI asked the Dallas PD to send them the rifle found on the sixth floor TSBD so they could check for fingerprints. When the FBI sent back the rifle they sent the rifle used in the shooting and kept the rifle found on the sixth floor TSBD.
Assuming no one destroyed the rifle found on the sixth floor TSBD it could very well have ended up in Italy taken there by US agents looking for information on the rifle.
A team of CIA agents per the first post went to Italy, took A rifle with them to inspect the factory, then they ran off and left it there, in a corner. Excuse my skepticism. The one that Oswald ordered (not)? It would still supposedly (if he ever ordered it, much less picked it up) be evidence they were taking off to Europe and then leaving behind. Of course they didn't need it as the Warren Omission already had one for the record. Why bother deep sixing or destroying this one? Has anyone ever seen any mention of this trip in the WC Report?
For some reason the first time I read the first post in this thread I thought of Bonar Menninger, Mortal Error, The Smoking Gun.
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So many books, not just on JFK-RFK-MLK I'd like to have time to read, properly and not just skim, videos to watch. Just started finally on JFK and Vietnam. Survivors Guilt floored me. I'd think this would only supplement it. Survivors Guilt left me suspicious. That Mr. Palamara may have hinted at but left unsaid... That, one of the top two, three (?) SSA's in Dallas knew in advance that at least a security "test" was to happen that day. That they may have participated in the test at the time it happened, others unwittingly. That a high level SSA or two back in Washington may have had knowledge of the test, and participated. Approved by who? That some, knowingly, in advance, compromised the security of the President. Why a test in rabid right wing Dallas of all places?
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This was almost funny at first. Something was lost in the translation though. The Corsican CIA hit team supervised by Paul Harvey left the Real assassination weapon, ordered by Jack Ruby and given to Oswald, in a Catholic Church in Italy and given to a museum in 2017?
I wasn't trying to be funny if anyone took it that way.
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Hunt may have had a personal reason for calling Meyer an SOB. At the same time if memory serves I remember reading somewhere, most likely in Mary's Mosaic, that Meyer could at least at times have a bit of a condescending attitude. I recall an example, an occasion after work or at a dinner party where Meyer had a few drinks, someone said something he disagreed with and he dressed them down quite heartily in front of the crowd.
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1 hour ago, Kirk Gallaway said:
aI've seen this, that old Englishman, particularly at the beginning, as I recall does have some good historical context and useful information but he is a bit daft. He says with certainty that there were, I think 7 assassins whose intentions were to cut JFK's head completely. off. Well there goes the LN theory! Ok, they failed to make the overkill. But as far as getting away scot free, I guess that was always pretty much in the bag.
I hope the guy takes his heart medicine (if he's still alive) because it is easy to get a bit overboard, when you're dealing with........Satan!
Kirk, your spoiling the end for me. I was learning more about Bush - Harriman and much more. I've never seen the skull and bones stuff quite that deep or better presented but there's probably a lot I've not seen on it. I've not yet gotten to Satan.
The Paine Files
in JFK Assassination Debate
Posted · Edited by Ron Bulman
Thank you for posting this. Asking to take a picture of the file cabinet might have been pushing your luck. Great stuff. Best of luck with the film. I'd love to contribute but to be perfectly honest still live pretty much paycheck to paycheck as the hope of retirement nears.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1174121219/the-assassin-and-mrs-paine
Six or seven of something like this per Deputy Sherriff Walthers in his report on 11/22/63 and again in 1964 in his Warren Hearing testimony.
https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=86VvULs2&id=5709D30A6261D7A98BD14D988AD06EDA2D2801FA&thid=OIP.86VvULs2XrsXdAjr0ipd2gEsDH&q=retro+portable+file+cabinet&simid=608011824182593945&selectedIndex=13&qpvt=retro+portable+file+cabinet&ajaxhist=0
And if they are not the Paines then I guess Ruth hauled them back from New Orleans? Strange, Michael only remembers unloading duffel bags in his WC testimony. Ruth tends to laugh off a lot of questions from reporters over the years (in a disarming fashion) that a perssistent attorney would have pressed and grilled her on.