Ron Bulman
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Posts posted by Ron Bulman
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Googling "buddy walthers paine garage", of all things, This popped up. It left me a bit dumbfounded.
http://www.prouty.org/brussell/nazi-2.html
I've read of Ms. Brussell and quotes by her but she get's deep in a hurry.
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On 6/8/2017 at 10:24 PM, Ron Bulman said:
I just re read the sub chapter in Reclaiming Parkland about "Russell says No" / Russell's Dissent. I thought that's where I'd read about Russell's smooth over by Dulles. Somewhere I thought I read of Russell refusing to sign the final draft of the Warren Commission Report. Dulles stepped in and said we can add a Dissent at the end. He convinced Russell to sign after he deceived him. Dulles persuaded Russell to record his dissent before a stenographer recording it for the record. The stenographer was not a stenographer, nothing was recorded. Is this just my imagination, running away with me?
Guess I'm wrong again. I just re-re read the above and it was Rankin. But I'd of sworn I read something about this in more detail and that Dulles was involved (which would not be surprising given his leading activity on the commission and his involvement in selecting Rankin).
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On 6/6/2017 at 1:03 AM, James DiEugenio said:
Ron:
That is what Richard Russell thought about them also.
And that was a month or so after the assassination.
I just re read the sub chapter in Reclaiming Parkland about "Russell says No" / Russell's Dissent. I thought that's where I'd read about Russell's smooth over by Dulles. Somewhere I thought I read of Russell refusing to sign the final draft of the Warren Commission Report. Dulles stepped in and said we can add a Dissent at the end. He convinced Russell to sign after he deceived him. Dulles persuaded Russell to record his dissent before a stenographer recording it for the record. The stenographer was not a stenographer, nothing was recorded. Is this just my imagination, running away with me?
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On 6/6/2017 at 0:32 AM, Chuck Schwartz said:
Also, Bill Kelly, in his Blog "JFK Countercoup", does a good job comparing Valkarie (attempted assassination of Hitler) and the Big Event.
Yes Chuck, maybe Dulles learned a thing or two in his dealings regarding the first Valkyrie. Thanks to Mr. Kelly. Pretty deep and interesting.
http://jfkcountercoup2.blogspot.com/2012/08/valkyrie-at-dealey-plaza-wip.html
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The book I linked above, Rise of the Fourth Reich does have a chapter on "Kennedy and the Nazis". Nothing in it about Nazi's as shooters, planners, organizers or financers.
It does mention Joseph Kennedy being a Nazi sympathizer. George DeMorenschild's first application to US intelligence in 1942 was denied because he was a "Nazi espionage agent" (his cousin was one of "the top Nazi intelligence agents in north America"). Michael Paines boss at Bell Helicopter as director of research and development was former SS General Walter Dornberger. As VP LBJ was also chairman of NASA and worked with it's director Wernher von Braun.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wernher_von_Braun
He killed a lot of Englishmen with the V2.
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It seems maybe the Quaker aspect was pushed as part of the cover up. I.E., Quakers are God fearing, loving caring people who help others unquestionably (like Nixon). Thus they "took in" Marina and befriended Lee, helped him find a job, out of the kindness of their hearts.
q
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Earlier today I thought I know I've read this letter before but I don't remember what it said. I then found a larger print version of the WC version than this:
http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh16/pdf/WH16_CE_15.pdf
One line that really caught my eye was "unless I use my real name". So IF the letter was Really from Oswald he was stating in writing that If he Really did go to Mexico he used a different name to do so. A pretty incriminating admission to commit to in writing even if your not already contemplating shooting the president a couple of weeks later. It kind of stretches credulity that a young man smart enough to become a radar operator with the necessary security level, learn Russian (fluently), defect and return to the US with a Russian wife would knowingly set himself up that way.
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I found Fonzi's end evaluation of Veciana's veracity credible. Maybe my naivety and ignorance. McAdams would probably think so.
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17 hours ago, Chris Newton said:
Hey Ron, did I write "couch secretary" somewhere? If so, I apologize because the furniture swapping/arrangement is confusing enough without me adding more elements. There were two "desk secretary's" in the home in Oct.-Nov.1963. A large one was in the kitchen/dining area along the south wall, just west of the garage door. This is visible in one of the WC photographs. The FBI noted in one of their 302's that this was where Ruth stored her tape and wrapping supplies. The other "desk secretary" is described as the "little desk secretary" in Ruth Paine's testimony and was located on the north wall of the living room until it was moved by Lee and Michael on Sunday, November 11th.
Couch secretary is a mistake on my part. The thread is about Ruth's couch, I inadvertently combined it with the "desk" secretary. I should have caught that myself, poor proofreading on my part. Ruth's "finding" the rough draft of Oswald's letter and copying of it could support the possibility that they were monitoring Lee and Marina for somebody. Her tap dancing, or perjury about the incident is incriminating. The phone tap is further support. Those file cabinets give reason for question also.
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In addition to Chris's assertion of perjury by Ruth Paine 3x regarding the "couch secretary" and Oswald's letter the thread has brought up another question (actually two) for me.
Based on this picture link provided by David Von Pein via the marry Ferrell Foundation.
http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10897#relPageId=11&tab=page
1) Are those file cabinets on the lower right portion of the picture? Maybe like the ones mentioned by One DPD officer but no one else and never inventoried in the garage contents. I can't tell you where at the moment but I've read the officer looked in the files and there were at least some on Cubans. Two such file cabinets were not something Oswald would have been able to indiscriminately lug around from Fort Worth to Dallas to New Orleans to Dallas again. These were the Paine's files. Of what who can be sure. Probably old travel brochures.
2) The blanket the rifle was supposedly wrapped in was on the ground, right? Where might it have lain? Not a lot of room there. Was it stacked on or hidden in the other junk there and the blanket dropped on it's retrieval? With the garage door shut Lee wouldn't have much room to wrap the curtain rods in the paper he brought home from work.
http://alt.assassination.jfk.narkive.com/mczSMAgh/what-buddy-walthers-found
Thanks to old John McAdams for Walthers WC testimony. Where ya been budd?
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22 hours ago, Chris Newton said:
That's a great story Ron!
It's a pretty small house isn't it?
Yes it is, for two families even of just the women and kids with LHO on occasion. If I recall right Tony had a couch on the east wall and love seat on the north wall with 3-4 kitchen/desk/folding chairs by the bay window. It was not quite crowded but cozy, informal in the living room.
BTW, I did go in the garage once just out of curiosity to see where the rifle was supposedly hidden. It was basically empty as opposed to the picture linked above somewhere by David. I also asked Tony if he'd been up in the attic to see if any previous tenants might have left anything behind. He says he'd stuck his head through the opening and seen nothing. In hindsight I wish I'd asked to go up there and at least look under the insulation near the opening, for what I don't know. 99.9% chance I'd have found nothing.
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Tracy, have you ever read "The Last Investigation" by Gaeton Fonzi? Based on the recommendations of multiple commentators on this site I did. If not you might find it informative. It's about "On the Ground" investigation for the HSCA.
I put no man on a pedestal. I don't think Jeff walks on water. But his and attorney Jim Lesear's 15 year or so suit of the CIA for files about the assassination is IMHO yeoman's work. As I've posted on his site may times,
FREETHEFILES.
This Fall. Veciana? Who was Joannidies, the man who gave Phillips the money to pay him?
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50 minutes ago, David Von Pein said:
CD 497 -- FBI Booklet -- "Paine & Randle Homes"....
http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10897#relPageId=10
Thank you David for the Second picture in the link you provided. I've never seen it before. The one of the garage.
http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10897#relPageId=11&tab=page
When were they taken? On the lower right behind the tires, beneath the Alpha Bits box it looks like two two drawer metal file cabinets. Not the ones mentioned by DPD officer (?- correct me on name?) Buddy Wathers in his report but never mentioned again anywhere?
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On 5/16/2017 at 0:26 PM, Thomas Graves said:
Forgive my technical ignorance. My post wouldn't load, I kept clicking. Now delete has no effect.
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On 5/16/2017 at 0:26 PM, Thomas Graves said:
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On 5/16/2017 at 0:26 PM, Thomas Graves said:
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On 5/16/2017 at 0:26 PM, Thomas Graves said:
Nope. Never BEEN there.
To think this statement caused me to join the forum after reading it intermittently since about 2011 and almost daily since the 50th.
I stepped from the kitchen "doorway' in question once and shot "Oswald " in the living room.
In 1993 on the 30th anniversary of the assassination a friend and coworker, Tony Mexia rented and lived in the "Paine " house. Another friend and coworker, an Irving neighbor of Tony's, Mike Moore and I persuaded Tony to host a 30th party. I brought the 4-5 books on the subject I had at the time and a few magazines and news paper clippings. These were scattered on the kitchen table for others to look at. I spent most of the evening in the kitchen. I don't remember a door from it to the living room. I think it would have "stood out" so to speak. As one can see in the second, modern museum picture a door did not open to the right entering the kitchen, it would have hit the "telephone desk", there is no door in the picture that would have swung to the right. I don't remember one swinging to the left either. The garage entrance door from the kitchen was immediately to the right, facing the entry to the living room and it. It would have been tight for enough room for a door opening that way to do so at best. Looking into the living room from the kitchen, a opened door on the right would have been a noticeable contrast to the knotty pine paneling.
Later in the evening, from the bedroom hall door coming in to the living room Mike and another friend took one each of Tony's arms and marched him into the living room. I'd brought a cap pistol. As they approached the center of the room I stepped from the kitchen doorway and said Lee! loudly. Tony turned, looked at me and said Jack!, as I shot him. He fell to the floor. We received robust applause and cheers from the 20 or so people present.
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On 5/16/2017 at 1:39 PM, Tom Hume said:
Chris, a couple of questions about the kitchen photo you posted a link to:
Could the doorway on the right be a sliding pocket door? It looks like the molding on the top might have a recess containing the hanging bracket. It also appears that the vertical molding might be revealing a pocket door. Do you think the lamp on the right in this photo is the same lamp we see in the living room photo in your first post.? Also, are we seeing a man’s legs and shoes next to Marina in this living room photo?
No it's not the same lamp. The first picture is from 11/23/63. That's the Paine's lamp. The second picture is since the City of Irving turned the house into a museum in the last few years. The house has been rented to multiple tenants in the interim and furniture was not included. Only if the Paine's saved the lamp and donated it to the museum for authenticity could it be the same lamp.
Where A lamp was in 63 vs today is the question.
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You might find this book interesting/informative.
I don't recall any mention of Nazis involved in the assassination but if Dulles was involved in any capacity it's conceivable given what he did for so many of them from Paperclip to the Rat Lines. It seems like it did cover some of them moving into the banking and chemical fields in particular. It's been a few years since I read it, maybe I can find time to thumb through it and refresh my mind over the weekend.
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I've been perusing William Matson Law's "In The Eye of History" interview of Dennis David (as well as that of Paul O'Connor) for the last hour. I saw no mention of a helicopter from Mr. David. That doesn't mean he didn't at other times. Maybe Mr. Law just didn't think to bring up the subject in relation to the bigger picture in the scope of his interview. David does state that at 6:20 he received a call saying "your visitor's on his way", and at 6:30-6:35 a BLUE (private, non governmental, always gray - emphatic about this) hearse backed up to the "jetty' (dock?). Two civilians (he spoke to the driver and feels sure of this) got out of the front seats and 5-6 men in blue suits, he presumed Government agents, "perhaps Secret Service or whatever" got out of the back, they never identified themselves. His corpsmen carried the Gray Metal Shipping Casket into the morgue anteroom and he then dismissed them. The hearse driver (dressed in a smock "like they used in the OR") told him they had come in the back entrance off Jones Bridge road by the officers Club.
Paul O'Connor was quite emphatic. "After we heard the helicopterS come over, I distinctly heard one land in the Officers Club parking lot. There was a big parking lot. I heard one helicopter land there. I heard another helicopter land at the north side of the hospital where there was a normal helicopter landing pad. Several minutes later...maybe five - the back of the morgue opened up and a crew of corpsmen and a higher ranking corpsman (Dennis David?) brought in a plain pinkish gray shipping casket. ...Inside was the body bag."
Apologies to Mr. Lifton for not buying a (used) copy of Best Evidence until the early 2000's. It still blew my mind and greatly intensified my interest in the Truth. His statement above about Mr. David mentioning a helicopter to him helps confirm that of O'Connor. Video would be damning.
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I would like to note that nowhere in this thread are the Paine's East Coast Establishment and CIA connections addressed. Re reading the thread led me back to eight pages in Destiny Betrayed. Michael came from the Forbes and Cabot's (E.G Henry Cabot Lodge, incumbent Senator JFK defeated in 1952 and appointed Ambassador to Vietnam in 1963) and his step dad invented Bell Helicopter where he worked in 1963. Ruth's dad was in the OSS in WWII. He was later in AID, the Agency for International Development, reputedly a CIA front. Her sister was a psychologist for the CIA for years before the assassination and at the time of it. Then there's the link to Dulles. His agent and lover in WWII, Mary Bancroft was the childhood best friend of Ruth Forbes Hyde, Ruth Paine's mother. In Dulles own words "conspiracy buffs would have had a field day if they had known...he had actually been in Dallas three weeks before the murder... and that one of Mary Bancroft's childhood friends had turned out to be the landlady for Marina Oswald...".
In this context I tend to agree with Sandy Larsen to an extent. They may not have known they had a "handler" previously but when the assassination happened they knew they had been used whether they were inferring the Government, Establishment or the CIA itself.
I've thought for many years now Ruth's trip to see her sister and other family in the North East in the summer of 1963 and return trip going out of the way through New Orleans to pick up Marina is if not suspicious at least intriguing. It begs the question, might she have been at the minimum briefed about if not trained for an assignment to monitor a recent returned defector and his Russian wife? Someone should have questioned her on this subject in depth as well.
Might not this potential monitoring have been the basis for a phone tap too?
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Hello to all, read the forum for many years, wanted to ask a question now and then or comment, finally joined.
Mr. Lifton and Newton, thank you for your insight. This is important to the big picture, to me at least. Please continue. For everybody.
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I'm 60, was born in Fort Worth, Texas. I was raised primarily in the mid cities in the middle of the D/FW metromess. Graduated from the University of Texas at Arlington. I now live about 70 miles South West of Fort Worth. Married, children, grandchildren.
I like reading about the JFK, RFK and MLK assassinations. Watching six man (and 11 man) football. Classic rock, most country, and blues music
Vietnam Declassified: Kennedy, Johnson,Nixon
in JFK Assassination Debate
Posted · Edited by Ron Bulman
James or Jim, I don't know which you prefer, the link still won't work for me, just a blank page. Thanks for posting it though, hopefully it will be available in the future. I'd hoped to listen to you, Jeff Morley and your discussion with Oliver Stone live on CSpan when it happened but life got in the way. As Jeff used to say from time to time, Cheers. FREETHFILES. VOTE2018.
Would be nice if it was all posted on youtube, food for thought.