Ron Bulman
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Posts posted by Ron Bulman
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On 7/22/2017 at 2:02 AM, Chris Newton said:
Ruth Paine's WC testimony is as follows:
March 21st at 9:15 and 2:25 in Washington, DC before Asst. Counsels Redlich and Jenner
March 23rd at 7:30 PM in Irving, Texas before Asst. Counsel Jenner, SS Agent John Joe Howlett and Warren Commission transcriptionist.
March 29th at 2:20 PM in Washington, DC before the commission.
March 30th at 9:05 AM in Washington, DC before the commission.
Thank you Chris, when put up against McAdams Link that Michael Clark provided the "it" gets even deeper. JMc's link to Ruth provides 5 parts, an affidavit, and the Shaw trial testimony. Something more than high topped boots, hip waders or those of the chest variety may be needed given the line of some of the questioning as I read deeper.
1, It starts with no date at 2:20, the 29th in Washington?
2, No date 2:05. ?
3, 9:15, 3/21, we have a match.
4, Just titled "Resumed", no time or date, the only date they had a second session was the first, on the 21st, then?
5, JULY 23rd in Dallas, at the Post Office Building (across Dealy Plaza from the TSBD?) done by Liebler. Ruth and Marina questioned At The Same Time by him.
(6) Jump back a month. Affidavit on June 24. (Just, weird in the progression of events, it and contents of it).
(7) Shaw trial testimony.
So on Saturday, 3/21/64 they worked all day questioning Ruth in 2 sessions.
They flew to Dallas on the 22nd or 23rd, went to Irving on Monday the 23rd and Jenner questioned them at the house. Either before or after Liebeler questions Ruth and Marina together at the Post Office or it's annex in Dealy Plaza.
The 29th was a Sunday. Nothing there about the Monday 9:05 testimony. Were they working overtime on Saturday's and Sundays or was it a weekend project?
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Do I understand this right? If the call was at 1:00 on 11/22 then the tap had to be in place prior to the assassination. The Irving PD did not even at the behest of say the FBI start listening in on the suddenly suspicious Paine's phone conversations within 30 minutes of the shots. Somebody was suspicious of the Paine's and or their association with Marina and Lee to justify monitoring the line. Local small suburban police departments didn't do a lot of taps on their own at the time did they? The Paine's weren't dope dealers or otherwise suspected of criminal activity at the time that I've ever read about. Monitored because Oswald was a returned Communist defector, when he only came out on weekends? HE wasn't monitored closely enough for anyone to know about the Beckley address where he stayed during the week.
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1 hour ago, Michael Clark said:
It looks like Dallas and Washington to me.
Was the "second" part not done at the house in Irving?
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According to Ruth Paine's WC testimony I read a couple of day's ago Oswald told her he hitchhiked from New Orleans to Dallas. If he was telling her the truth he didn't bring 6 or 7 small metal hand held file cabinets with him. If anyone would have asked her at the time if she did when she brought Marina I'm guessing she would have said no and still would. Somewhere in her testimony I read in the last month that she was questioned about the file cabinets. Now I can't find it. It is rather long. I re read the second day three or four days ago and did different combinations of word searches on google as well as a couple on Mary Ferrell (3X limit per visit if your not a member). What I remember was her being led, words to the effect of "so there were certainly no six or seven...", at this point they stopped and went off the record. When they came back they changed the subject. Does anyone know of a link to her full testimony, both in Washington and Irving?
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2 hours ago, Ian Lloyd said:
Dodd?
Yes Sir. Thank you. Paul, Dr. Scott is most likely where I read about this.
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3 hours ago, David Josephs said:
Harry Holmes and the USPS FBI informants kept tabs on Oswald relentlessly, even opening and resealing his mail.
During the week of March 27 a 5 foot carton arrives at PO Box 2915 from Klein's Sporting Goods.
The USPS informed us about his Worker" subscription which he was receiving at the same time he supposedly picked up the rifle.
The mail he received is even in the famous Backyard photos taken the week of March 27, 1963....Why is there not a report from the Harry Holmes section (g~d knows he submitted enough himself) or anyone at the FBI detailing the receipt of said carton
or the pistol he supposedly received at about the same time.Nor is there any mention of a rifle or pistol in any single FBI report prior to 11/22.
How could they have missed these weapons deliveries?
The purchase of them was actually part of a senatorial investigation into gun running at the time? Senator??? Agh!!!
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On 7/19/2017 at 0:08 AM, James DiEugenio said:
,Who was Oswald writing to in Russia?
That would have been a great question for Liebler to Michael Paine as he did the questioning of both him and Walthers. I guess the lone nutters would say "but he questioned Michael on 3/17/64 and Buddy not until 7/23/64, how could he know? A Proper Investigation would have contacted and questioned him on this. Buttt... LBJ was pressing to wrap up the "investigation" before it got any closer to the election... Well a proper investigation would have noticed the 6-7 metal files in the Dallas County Sheriff'S reports of Deputies Walthers, And J L Oxford prior to March 64 and Liebler would have asked him.
Thanks to Jim's thread today on Ray Marcus author Joseph McBride posted a quote from his excellent book relating to that subject, that also quoted Deputy Oxford's report of 11/23/63. I didn't remember reading it when I bought the book a few years back and found it when I came home today but couldn't find the source. Forgive the one I did, I guess old John's good for something after all.
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/oxford1.htm
It seems to help corroborate the report of Walthers that there were 6-7 metal file cabinets/boxes and that they contained "literature from abroad". In the Garage.
Looking for the source of Deputy Oxford's statement I came across the WC Hearing questioning of Dallas Police Department Detective Stovall, one of the six officers searching the Paine home and questioning the people there on 11/22/63. In it he states he found three metal boxes of Phonograph Records, In Ruth's Bedroom.
Reconcile That lone nutt's.
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Test. Couldn't get last post to do so. Thought it was slow speed but waited an hour.
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/oxford1.htm
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On 7/18/2017 at 9:53 PM, Ron Bulman said:
I'd like to clarify something I kind of alluded to in an earlier post that has developed further in thought. Michael Paine was pointing his finger at Oswald from the get-go and a "files" comment supports this. He showed up unannounced during the search of the house on the 22nd. Deputy Walthers remembered talking to him "over the ironing board". "How does the guy think, what is he, what does he do?" He said, "He's a Communist. He is very communistic minded. He believes in it." And he says, "He used to try to convince me it was a good thing," and he says, "I don't believe in it". Shortly after this a letter was pulled out of one of the six or seven small metal file cabinets that had a letterhead on it. "and a letterhead that this Paine fellow had told us about, and he said, "That's from the people he writes to in Russia" I.E., those are his files, not ours? I know, speculations, jumping to conclusions. Illogical?
I don't think Michael was pointing his finger as part of a pre conceived plot. It's likely he knew just enough to realize some of the potential implications of what was happening and deflecting suspicion from himself and Ruth a deliberately trying to frame Oswald.
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Of course your right Paul. It's 10.8 miles from Irving to Highland Park.
http://maps.randmcnally.com/mileage-calculator.do
All those country girls in 63' in South and West Dallas, Irving, Oak Cliff, Cedar Hill, Coppell, Grapevine, none of them ever went off to SMU,TCU, UT, certainly none ever to an IVY League school. Ruth was an ideologue in the woods babysitting the poor immigrant Marina?
Regarding "World Peace", why did Ruth get kicked out of Nicaragua for asking questions, taking lot's of notes and being suspected of being a spy for the CIA? Why did she get kicked off of what ever island it was they sent her to then for the same thing?
"Still Marina was kind and gentle and politely corrected Ruth's grammar".
Then again Swathmore's not IVY league is it?
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I'd like to clarify something I kind of alluded to in an earlier post that has developed further in thought. Michael Paine was pointing his finger at Oswald from the get-go and a "files" comment supports this. He showed up unannounced during the search of the house on the 22nd. Deputy Walthers remembered talking to him "over the ironing board". "How does the guy think, what is he, what does he do?" He said, "He's a Communist. He is very communistic minded. He believes in it." And he says, "He used to try to convince me it was a good thing," and he says, "I don't believe in it". Shortly after this a letter was pulled out of one of the six or seven small metal file cabinets that had a letterhead on it. "and a letterhead that this Paine fellow had told us about, and he said, "That's from the people he writes to in Russia" I.E., those are his files, not ours? I know, speculations, jumping to conclusions. Illogical?
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4 hours ago, Max Good said:
tHere's what Ruth told me about the filing cabinets. Unfortunately, I did not get a shot of the cabinet in her closet.
Thank you for posting this. Asking to take a picture of the file cabinet might have been pushing your luck. Great stuff. Best of luck with the film. I'd love to contribute but to be perfectly honest still live pretty much paycheck to paycheck as the hope of retirement nears.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1174121219/the-assassin-and-mrs-paine
Six or seven of something like this per Deputy Sherriff Walthers in his report on 11/22/63 and again in 1964 in his Warren Hearing testimony.
And if they are not the Paines then I guess Ruth hauled them back from New Orleans? Strange, Michael only remembers unloading duffel bags in his WC testimony. Ruth tends to laugh off a lot of questions from reporters over the years (in a disarming fashion) that a perssistent attorney would have pressed and grilled her on.
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I believe my earlier mention of a Walker speech should have been a reference to a John Birch Society meeting, and, Michael apparently went to Harvard for 2 years but after some D's and an F did not return.
No new info here on the files but some interesting background on the Paines most here are probably familiar with.
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17 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:
I'd tried to link the ROKC thread and the header for it kept saying something about Buell Wesley Frazier (3x), my technical ineptness at work again. It does digress on the Ruth's babysitter bit for near half of it. I didn't get the connection of her to the files. That thread and your comment about them being domestic surveillance agents quoted by Mr. Simkin are about all I did find regarding comments/discussion on the subject of the files.
I thought ROKC was the source of a 30 second audio clip of Ruth in the 90's talking about the files but I looked there again to link it and can't find it. In it she laughingly tells a small audience that laughs with her (to paraphrase) "they asked me about 6 or 7 boxes of files, I told them of three boxes of record albums and three boxes of my papers from college days". I'm guessing no one raised their hand and asked, Ruth, how did they get those 12 and a half inch Perry Como albums into the small metal file cabinets that would hold a 8 X 10 (11 1/2"?) described by Officer Walthers to the Warren Omission?
I'd read Michael's bio previously, just like the depth of your comment the fact that he went to Harvard went right over my head. How many other engineers at Bell Helicopter in Hurst Texas went to Harvard? How many had his East coast family connections stretching back to the 1700's?
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5 hours ago, David Andrews said:
Plumlee:
Well, as we say in CIA. "There's many, many rogues out there."
If people were saying that at CIA, it tends to sound like a cynical cop-out - just as disingenuous as it sounds coming from Plumlee. Meaning that "many" rogues were sanctioned by authority to carry out policy as cut-outs for the policymakers in office.
"My goodness, all these rogues! Why are we not putting a stop to this? We're up to our a** in rogues, out here!"
I mean. really - how many decades is this dodge supposed to work? Why does it work on you, George? "Rogues" equals "Nobody's guilty."
"Blasted rogues, they've killed our president! Something must be done." But nothing was, until some "rogues" were under subpoena. Why was that, exactly?
If there was a like icon on the site I'd probably have clicked it and remained anonymous. That rouge David Morales, not. That rouge David Phillips, promoted to Chief of the Western Hemisphere.
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1 hour ago, Eddy Bainbridge said:
I watched several of these videos. The one that really interested me is Doug Horne's. The Northwoods document outlining the suggested Joint Chiefs of Staff pretexts for war with Cuba is scary. I could not help imagining the obvious unlisted pretext that may have been implemented.
I would like to know what views people have on this idea ( That the assassination was planned as a pretext for war) Specifically I want to know what stopped it working? I have never read a plausible answer to that. Could Oswald have inadvertently stopped war, by sounding sane/ calm\believable in the brief TV appearances, and thus spooking the conspirators. Or, was the problem a mess- up in the Mexico City cover story, again spooking the conspirators. What spooked the conspirators?
One of the first articles to come out on the assassination was in a paper within the anti Castro community in Florida accusing him of being behind it. It was written by someone who was a member of or had connections to one of the anti Castro revolutionary groups. I don't think it was DRE or Alpha 66 but there was something about CIA funding. These people were still hoping for and basically promoting a war with Cuba. Maybe this was pushed by a "rouge" agent and those in upper levels had other ideas. Who knows for sure? Personally I think attacking Cuba was the one thing Johnson might have squashed before it could ever get off the ground. He didn't want his Presidency to start off with a possible nuclear war involving Russia. Now if Oswald had been killed escaping and pegged as Russian defector that was pro Castro, all bets are off...
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On 7/15/2017 at 0:50 PM, Ron Bulman said:
http://www.stepbystep.com/JFK-50th-Anniversary-The-Eyes-of-Texas-Pt-1-126022/
Looking for part two.
Found it. Interesting story and perspective. A bit of a skewed ending.
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3 minutes ago, Michael Clark said:
Ron, Nothing solid here, but it may prod somebody's memory, but I believe I read that Michael Paine was identified, through pictures, as a person who was querying students at a local university regarding their political positions. IIRC, Michael was doing this anonymously or under cover. He was gathering intelligence on students, essentially.
Thanks for spurring my memory. In looking for info on the subject I did come across something about Michael doing such. I'm pretty sure it was on the SMU campus but I can't tell you where I read it at the moment.
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The first thread I posted on in the forum, Where's Ruth's Couch by Chris Newton contained a link that led to this picture I'd never seen.
http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10897#relPageId=11&tab=page
I got excited when I saw two, two drawer file cabinets in the lower right part of the picture. I thought are these the file cabinets I've read somewhere about a Dallas cop taking files from about pro Castro supporters? Files that had disappeared? Those in the picture were too big for Oswald to be toting around from Fort worth to Dallas to New Orleans, and Ruth back to Dallas since he came back from Russia. No, those are not the files I'd read of, somewhere, sometime. Dallas County Deputy Sherriff Buddy Walthers confiscated those on 11/22/63 and turned them over to Captain Will Fritz at the Dallas Police Department. I've been looking and found nothing about them ever being seen since. In his Warren Hearing testimony Walthers describes them as "little metal file cabinets...they would carry an 8 by 10 (11 1/2?) folder...but with a single handle on top of it".
https://www.jfk-assassination.com/warren/wch/vol7/page548.php
While he denies looking in them at one point near the end he remembers a letter head Michael Paine pointed out as "from the people he writes to in Russia".
He also mentions the files in his report on 11/22/63.
http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh19/html/WH_Vol19_0269b.htm
My contention is these files belonged to The Paines. Between their family ties to intelligence and Michaels taking Lee to ACLU meetings, then a general Walker speech (???) and more this seems more plausible than the claim that they belong to Oswald.
In Michel Paines bio here on the forum Mr. Simkin quotes Jim Di Eugino about the files. While I've found a little more info, not much. Any help would be appreciated.
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And perjury is a "badge of honor".
https://whowhatwhy.org/2015/12/27/why-cias-richard-helms-lied-about-oswald-part-2/
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5 hours ago, Chris Bristow said:
"Where was the "boxcar" that the tramps were found in? The Hughes film gives a good view of the yard and shows 3 pullman cars. Were they supposed to be behind the other cars?
There are multiple stories, statements and testimony about 3 tramps arrested being taken off a box car or cars in the immediate aftermath of the assassination in the rail switching yard next to the TSBD when the DPD and the Dallas Sherriff's office flooded it. Somewhere between 12:35-40 and about 1:00. It's been argued elsewhere that the shadows in the photo's of "The" three tramps indicate they were taken 1-2 hours later. I'm not pushing a theory here. It's pretty conclusive three men were arrested in the rail yard shortly after the assassination. Given the obfuscation and lack of investigation by the Warren Omission and their investigative arms, the FBI and CIA which stonewalled them as well as the Dallas Police Department and County Sherriff's Office it seems Possible that Maybe a second set of "tramps" were brought in from a rail car search an hour or two after the first bunch. Though never "arrested" or booked. Kind of like Jim Braden, I mean Eugene Hale Brading, the California convict "oil man" (cover?) passing through Dallas that day on his way to the big Oil city of New Orleans. Arrested coming out of the Dal-Tex building right after the assassination as being suspicious, then released. Because technology at the time didn't connect Braden to Brading, or... Go figure. (Brading had his name legally changed to Braden prior to 63, thus no link to his long rap sheet).
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I thought I remembered John Judge and the Committee on Political Assassinations trying to fight the city of Dallas on this (as one of the last fights of his life). There was more elsewhere (Dallas Observer had multiple articles over close to a year) but a quick web search failed to find them. I hate to use fox news as a source but it's the best of what I found quickly.
Edit. Here's a informative D.O. article on the subject that broaches the COPA attempt at participation. Three options, none happened.
http://www.dallasobserver.com/news/dallas-still-wants-to-control-speech-on-jfk-anniversary-6429117
Makes me think of this song.
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I've never been to Dealy Plaza on 11/22. I live about 130 miles away. When news of the 50th first came out I told myself I'm going. Then it turned out access was restricted, you had to register. Drivers license #, SSN, seems like some other form of ID, birth certificate or a drop of blood (?). Nope. If the government wants to know about my piss ant ass they already have all that info. They didn't give James Tague a ticket and he was wounded there on 11/22/63. Sad. What a Bad joke of an excuse for a ceremony honoring JFK.
Watching it on tv was depressing. They never showed the grassy knoll, had it blocked from view. Total control, no researchers or common citizens allowed. As has been said elsewhere before, if they had that kind of police protection in Dealy Plaza on 11/22/63, we would not be having this conversation.
I posted this the night of 11/21/13 on http://jfkfacts.org/
Jeff let it stand. It still applies to today, as it did then to 63.
The latest from Ruth Paine
in JFK Assassination Debate
Posted
I came across the Harlandale house by accident a few days ago looking for info regarding another thread. I've read it was demolished within a year by a Dallas Co. real estate developer. Deputy Buddy Walthers said Somewhere, I Think, on November 23rd, 63, an informant of his reported Oswald had been seen in it.