W. Niederhut

Addendum: Incidentally, in GHWB's revised CIA policies for Operation Mockingbird (following Colby's Church Committee testimony) restrictions on CIA funding of domestic propaganda ops did not apply to free lance journalists. I assume this would apply to CIA funding of "free lancers" running websites-- e.g., John McAdams, David Reitzes, and others.

Isn't this old forum rule rather odd, and perhaps even Un-Constitutional-- especially in light of the documented evidence (above) that our Education Forum founder, John Simkin, was expressly concerned, as early as 2005, about the activity of John McAdams and the CIA propaganda establishment on the internet? Are we now forbidden from even discussing putative CIA propaganda on Simkin's Education Forum? Does anyone really believe that John Simkin would have forbidden informed forum members in 2024 from even raising the question of whether any CIA-funded WCR propagandists may have "infiltrated" the Education Forum? I can't imagine that John Simkin would have enforced such a bizarre restriction on honest dialogue and historiography. And I probably don't need to point out the obvious irony of Steve Roe, W. Tracy Parnell, Jonathan Cohen, David Von Pein, and our WCR/LN mob calling for censorship of honest questions about CIA propaganda on the grounds that such questions interfere with their freedom of expression!

Steve, Some Trumpsters sincerely believe that they have superior jeans. 🤥 (The only kind I usually buy are Levis 501s.)

W. Tracy, So, moderators are not supposed to ask questions, or post reference articles about topics under discussion? Is that your concept? Did your former associate, John McAdams, have such a policy at McAdams.edu?

"Lyin' Kamala?" YGBFKM... 🙄 Geez... a new projective nickname coined by the biggest LIAR in American political history. I'm reminded of Trump impugning the reputation of the Clinton Foundation, and "Crooked Hillary," in 2016-- one year before the Trump Foundation was forced to close, as a result of blatant Trump family corruption. Every Trump accusation is a confession.

Education Forum founder, John Simkin, thought John McAdams was a CIA-affiliated internet propagandist. Until this past weekend, I thought everyone in the JFKA research community believed as much. McAdams devoted a great deal of attention to smearing Col. L. Fletcher Prouty as a "crackpot," and "anti-Semite," during his internet career, in a similar fashion to the way that Fred Litwin has been smearing Jim Garrison, Oliver Stone, and James DiEugenio since 2018. I came under attack this weekend by John McAdams' former associate, W. Tracy Parnell, and a few other LN-aligned Education Forum members (especially Steve Roe) for posting references to James DiEugenio's critiques of Mr. Litwin's work. These gentlemen were outraged that I had even raised the question of possible CIA-funded "Mockingbird" type disinformation on the 21st century internet. They accused me of "harassment," presumably for posting DiEugenio's essays on Litwin. However, as early as 2005, John Simkin was also concerned about CIA "Mockingbird" type involvement in internet information about the JFK assassination and cover up. In fact, in the process of his 2005 reconstruction of the history of Operation Mockingbird, (for his Spartacus encyclopedia) Mr. Simkin observed that Google was blacking out any references to his articles on Mockingbird, Frank Wisner, et.al. Here's the EF archival link.

Is there a more interesting thread in the history of the Education Forum than John Simkin's 2005 thread entitled, "Operation Mockingbird?" Operation Mockingbird - Page 5 - JFK Assassination Debate - The Education Forum (ipbhost.com) Mr. Simkin has been quite intellectually curious, and knowledgeable, about the history of CIA Operation Mockingbird. He also openly referred to John McAdams, on his 2005 "Mockingbird" thread, as a CIA propagandist whose JFKA disinformation was surfacing at the top of Google searches-- directly contradicting Pat Speer's stated belief (above) that McAdams was not a CIA disinformation asset. It is evident that Mr. Simkin also believed, as early as 2005, that CIA disinformation ops were occurring on the internet-- on Google, in particular. Who'd have thunk? 🙄 See, for example... John Simkin Admin 15.7k Gender:Male Author Posted June 14, 2005 I am pleased to announce that my campaign against the blocking of my page on Operation Mockingbird at Google has been successful. It has been restored to the Google database. (It now appears at 3rd in the ranking). So also has my page on Frank Wisner, the man who established Mockingbird. Another person blocked, Mary Pinchot Meyer, is also back in (although John McAdams’ CIA disinformation page is still ranked at number 1). As I expected, the publicity being generated by this was causing Google more problems than it was worth. Especially my journalist friends who took up my case with Google. What is important in all this is that the CIA thought it necessary to pressurize Google into removing these pages from its database. I am obviously on the right track in my research. http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKmockingbird.htm http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKwisner.htm http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKmeyerM.htm

Pat, Bugliosi, Posner, McAdams, Reitzes, and now Mr. Litwin have published disinformation promoting Allen Dulles's WCR/Lone Nut narrative and/or impugning the reputations of important WCR critics-- e.g., Jim Garrison, Col. L. Fletcher Prouty, Oliver Stone, and James DiEugenio. Who paid them? And why? My own suspicion is that the CIA "Mockingbird" propaganda establishment has been involved in this WCR/LN propaganda campaign from the very beginning, and there was, in fact, a 1964 CIA Executive Order instructing agency personnel to do "whatever is necessary" to promote public acceptance of the WCR. And it's interesting to observe forum reactions to my efforts to talk about the subject of CIA propaganda. Apparently, it's supposed to be unmentionable-- the way that Victorians objected to any comments about sex. I'm Dr. Niederhut, Mr. Roe. You have now posted a series of false, defamatory claims about me on this thread-- even after I "set the record" straight, at your request. And what you are doing here this weekend is called, "mob trolling"-- somewhat akin to guys who used to lead vigilante mobs against Civil Rights protesters back in the day.

But do you have an opinion? Given what we know about "Mockingbird" psy ops and the M$M, do you doubt that "Mockingbird" ops would have expanded in the 21st century to influence public opinion on the internet-- e.g. John McAdams and David Reitzes?

W. Tracy, Do you believe that the CIA "Mockingbird" propaganda establishment would limit their journalistic contracts solely to mainstream media corporations in the 21st century-- as opposed to also funding disinformation websites and "cognitive infiltrators" of "conspiracy theory" forums?

I noticed today that the recent forum debate inspired by the marketing campaign for Fred Litwin's new book smearing Jim Garrison closely mirrored this August 2024 thread about the problem of WCR/LN disinformation on the Education Forum. The main difference between the two threads is that James DiEugenio's detailed critiques of Litwin's work were referenced on the new thread.

More LN baloney. There's nothing wrong with people having "different ideas," and "differing opinions." The issue is "alternate facts" and the orchestrated posting of falsehoods-- disinformation. We discussed this issue in detail on the, "Problem of WCR/Lone Nut Disinformation," thread. But, I must say, I'm not surprised to hear vehement objections to a moderator criticizing WCR/LN disinformation from Steve Roe, Jonathan Cohen, and W. Tracy Parnell. Where are David Von Pein, Gerry Down, and Bill Brown?

Wrong adjective, Robert. I don't feel the least bit "insecure" about our 60 years of CIA-funded WCR/Lone Nut propaganda. I feel indignant about it. It's an ethical issue, and truth matters. Pat Speer's denial of the 60-year CIA/M$M propaganda psy op to cover up the conspiracy to murder JFK is categorically false. Operation Mockingbird is an historic reality. I wonder if there are any examples of John Simkin responding to WCR/Lone Nut disinformation on this forum. I can't imagine Simkin approving of it. Perhaps LN disinformation wasn't as prevalent here during Simkin's moderation of the forum. Things seem more sophomoric here nowadays. As for the other solipsistic arguments (above) denying the reality of LN disinformation, we discussed the issue at length in August, on my thread entitled, "The Problem of WCR/Lone Nut Disinformation on the Education Forum." Rather than reinventing the wheel, I'll refer interested parties to that debate.

Fred, Firstly, your article begins with blatant bunk-- referring to the non-LN theories about JFK's assassination as "mythology." That is simply false. The true "mythology" is the WCR/Lone Nut theory promoted by CIA contract journalists in the mainstream U.S. media for the past 60 years. The mythological LN theory has been debunked by multiple contrary facts. Meanwhile, here is James DiEugenio's unedited 1999 essay on the subject of Rose Cheramie. * Let's look at the full text, rather than cherry-picking to make a fraudulent case. If you read DiEugenio's text, below, Dr. Owen, an intern at the time, was one of many people who were aware of Cheramie's foreknowledge of the JFK assassination plot -- including, of course, Lt. Francis Fruge and Dr. Victor Weiss. Secondly, the DiEugenio text does not specify whether the intern, Dr. Owen, heard about Cheramie's foreknowledge of the assassination plot directly from Cheramie, or from a professor who spoke about it to the interns. (Red italics mine.) Monday, 16 August 1999 20:05 * Rose Cheramie: How She Predicted the JFK Assassination Written by James DiEugenio Print Jim DiEugenio reports on his research into the Rose Cheramie story. From the July-August 1999 issue (Vol. 6 No. 5) of Probe On November 20, 1963, Lt. Francis Fruge of the Louisiana State Police received a phone call from Moosa Memorial Hospital in Eunice. A Mrs. Louise Guillory, the hospital administrator told him that there was an accident victim in the emergency ward. Guillory knew that Fruge worked the narcotics detail and she felt that the woman was under the influence of drugs. Fruge immediately left for the hospital. When he got there he encountered a middle-aged white female sitting down in the waiting room outside emergency. There were no serious injuries; only bruises and abrasions. She was only partly coherent. But Moosa was a private hospital and since the woman seemed bereft of funds, Guillory had called Fruge to see what he could do to help. The woman identified herself to Fruge as Rose Cheramie. Fruge had no choice at the time except to place Cheramie in the Eunice City Jail. He then went out to attend the Eunice Police Department's Annual Ball. About an hour later a police officer came over to the function and told Fruge that Cheramie was undergoing withdrawal symptoms. Fruge came back and, after recognizing the condition, called a local doctor, Dr. Derouin, from the coroner's office. Derouin administered a sedative via syringe to calm her down. The doctor then suggested that she be removed from the jail and taken to the state facility in Jackson. After Fruge agreed, Derouin called the facility at about midnight on the 20th and made arrangements for her delivery there. Afterwards, Fruge called Charity Hospital in Lafayette and ordered an ambulance for the transport to the hospital. Fruge accompanied Cheramie to the hospital. And, according to his House Select Committee deposition, it was at this point that Rose began to relate her fascinating and astonishing tale. Calmed by the sedative, and according to Fruge, quite lucid, she began to respond to some routine questions with some quite unusual answers. She told him that she was en route from Florida to Dallas with two men who looked Cuban or Italian. The men told her that they were going to kill the president in Dallas in just a few days. Cheramie herself was not part of the plot but apparently the men were also part of a large dope ring with Rose since Cheramie's function was as a courier of funds for heroin which was to be dropped off to her by a seaman coming into the port of Galveston. She was to pick up the money for the drugs from a man who was holding her child. It seemed a quite intricate dope ring since she was then to transport the heroin to Mexico. The two men were supposed to accompany her to Mexico but the whole transaction got short-circuited on Highway 190 near Eunice. In the confines of a seedy bar called the Silver Slipper Lounge, Cheramie's two friends were met by a third party. Rose left with the two men she came with. But a short distance away from the bar, an argument apparently ensued. And although some have written that she was thrown out of the vehicle and hit by an oncoming car, according to Fruge, Rose said that the argument took place inside the Silver Slipper, and that the two men and the manager, Mac Manual, threw her out. While hitchhiking on the 190, she was hit by a car driven by one Frank Odom. It was Odom who then delivered her to Moosa. As Fruge so memorably recalled to Jonathan Blackmer of the HSCA, Cheramie summed up her itinerary in Dallas in the following manner: "She said she was going to, number one, pick up some money, pick up her baby, and to kill Kennedy." (p. 9 of Fruge's 4/18/78 deposition) At the hospital, Cheramie again predicted the assassination. On November 22nd, several nurses were watching television with Cheramie. According to these witnesses, "…during the telecast moments before Kennedy was shot Rose Cheramie stated to them, ‘This is when it is going to happen' and at that moment Kennedy was assassinated. The nurses, in turn, told others of Cheramie's prognostication." (Memo of Frank Meloche to Louis Ivon, 5/22/67. Although the Dallas motorcade was not broadcast live on the major networks, the nurses were likely referring to the spot reports that circulated through local channels in the vicinity of the trip. Of course, the assassination itself was reported on by network television almost immediately after it happened.) Further, according to a psychiatrist there, Dr. Victor Weiss, Rose "…told him that she knew both Ruby and Oswald and had seen them sitting together on occasions at Ruby's club." (Ibid., 3/13/67) In fact, Fruge later confirmed the fact that she had worked as a stripper for Ruby. (Louisiana State Police report of 4/4/67.) Fruge had discounted Cheramie's earlier comments to him as drug-induced delusions. Or, as he said to Blackmer, "When she came out with the Kennedy business, I just said, wait a minute, wait a minute, something wrong here somewhere." (Fruge, HSCA deposition, p. 9) He further described her in this manner: Now, bear in mind that she talked: she'd talk for awhile, looks like the shots would have effect on her again and she'd go in, you know, she'd just get numb, and after awhile she'd just start talking again. (Ibid.) But apparently, at the time of the assassination Cheramie appeared fine. The word spread throughout the hospital that she had predicted Kennedy's murder in advance. Dr. Wayne Owen, who had been interning from LSU at the time, later told the Madison Capital Times that he and other interns were told of the plot in advance of the assassination. Amazingly, Cheramie even predicted the role of her former boss Jack Ruby because Owen was quoted as saying that one of the interns was told "…that one of the men involved in the plot was a man named Jack Rubinstein." (2/11/68) Owen said that they shrugged it off at the time. But when they learned that Rubinstein was Ruby they grew quite concerned. "We were all assured that something would be done about it by the FBI or someone. Yet we never heard anything." (Ibid.) In fact, Cheramie's association with Ruby was also revealed to Dr. Weiss. For in an interview with him after the assassination, Rose revealed that she had worked as a drug courier for Jack Ruby. (Memo of Frank Meloche to Jim Garrison, 2/23/67) In the same memo, there is further elaboration on this important point: I believe she also mentioned that she worked in the night club for Ruby and that she was forced to go to Florida with another man whom she did not name to pick up a shipment of dope to take back to Dallas, that she didn't want to do this thing but she had a young child and that they would hurt her child if she didn't. These comments are, of course, very revealing about Ruby's role in both an intricate drug smuggling scheme and, at the least, his probable acquaintance with men who either had knowledge of, or were actually involved in, the assassination. This is a major point in this story which we will return to later. Although Fruge had discounted the Cheramie story on November 20th, the events of the 22nd made him a believer. Right after JFK's murder, Fruge "…called that hospital up in Jackson and told them by no way in the world to turn her loose until I could get my hands on her." (Fruge's HSCA deposition, p. 12.) So on November 25th, Fruge journeyed up to Jackson again to talk to Cheramie. This time he conducted a much more in-depth interview. Fruge found out that Cheramie had been traveling with the two men from Miami. He also found that the men seemed to be a part of the conspiracy rather than to be just aware of it. After the assassination, they were supposed to stop by a home in Dallas to pick up both around eight thousand dollars plus Rose's baby. From there Cheramie was supposed to check into the Rice Hotel in Houston under an assumed name. Houston is in close proximity to Galveston, the town from which the drugs were coming in from. From Houston, once the transaction was completed, the trio were headed for Mexico. How reliable a witness was Cheramie? Extermely. Fruge decided to have the drug deal aspect of her story checked out by the state troopers and U. S. Customs. The officers confirmed the name of the seaman on board the correct ship coming into Galveston. The Customs people checked the Rice Hotel and the reservations had been made for her under an assumed name. The contact who had the money and her baby was checked and his name showed that he was an underworld, suspected narcotics dealer. Fruge checked Cheramie's baggage and found that one box had baby clothes and shoes inside. Fruge flew Cheramie from Louisiana to Houston on Tuesday, the 26th. In the back seat of the small Sesna 180, a newspaper was lying between them. One of the headlines read to the effect that "investigators or something had not been able to establish a relationship between Jack Ruby and Lee Harvey Oswald." (Fruge's HSCA deposition p. 19) When Cheramie read this headline, she started to giggle. She then added, "Them two queer sons-of-a-bitches. They've been shacking up for years." (Ibid.) She added that she knew this to be true from her experience of working for Ruby. Fruge then had his superior call up Captain Will Fritz of the Dallas Police to relay what an important witness Cheramie could be in his investigation. Fruge related what followed next: Colonel Morgan called Captain Fritz up from Dallas and told him what we had, the information that we had, that we had a person that had given us this information. And of course there again it was an old friend, and there was a little conversation. But anyway, when Colonel Morgan hung up, he turned around and told us they don't want her. They're not interested. Fruge then asked Cheramie if she wished to try telling her tale to the FBI. She declined. She did not wish to involve herself further. With this, the Cheramie investigation was now halted. Rose was released and Fruge went back to Louisiana. So, just four days after the assassination, with an extremely and provably credible witness alive, with her potentially explosive testimony able to be checked out, the Cheramie testimony was now escorted out to pasture. Eyewitness testimony that Ruby knew Oswald, that Ruby was somehow involved in an international drug circle, that two Latins were aware of and perhaps involved in a plot to kill Kennedy, and that Ruby probably knew the men; this incredible lead – ;the type investigators pine for – ;was being shunted aside by Fritz. It would stay offstage until Jim Garrison began to poke into the Kennedy case years later. ... The rest of this article can be found in The Assassinations, edited by Jim DiEugenio and Lisa Pease.

Just Security has posted an unredacted copy of Jack Smith's new filing against Trump. No big surprises. The unredacted names are mostly Trump's Willard Hotel cabal-- Giuliani, Eastman, Powell, Chesbro, Bannon, et.al. annotated-doj-presidential-immunity-brief-oct-24-just-security.pdf (documentcloud.org)

Ben, There's no meaningful equivalence between the WCR/Lone Nut theory and the alternative of a "conspiracy" to assassinate JFK. The Lone Nut theory has been definitively debunked by multiple contrary facts. If you study the philosophy of science, you will learn that valid theories, by definition, must explain all of the facts without being debunked by any facts. It's a very high bar, and the WCR/Lone Nut theory doesn't even come close to clearing it. As for Rose Cheramie, read DiEugenio's detailed 1999 essay on the subject.

I have no idea what you're talking about, Mr. Roe. Prior to volunteering as a mod here, I had your posts on ignore, for years. Sadly, I'm now forced to read them. In my opinion, you should be banned from the Education Forum for persistently posting false, "Lone Nut" propaganda and, now, posting false, defamatory statements about a moderator.

Mr. Roe, I apologize, in advance, for dunking on you. Here's my August 10, 2024 question for your colleague, Fred Litwin. I hope Pat Speer won't also misconstrue this as "harassment." 🙄 W. Niederhut Moderators 6.9k Location:Denver, Colorado Interests:American history, European history, economics, world literature, philosophy, science, medicine, psychiatry, JFK assassination, 9/11 Posted August 10 Fred, The "nitwit" comment is a violation of forum decorum. As for your essay (above) about DiEugenio, Oliver Stone, and the Jim Garrison investigation, it's the most ludicrous thing I've read on the subject since Alecia P. Long's nonsensical "review" of JFK Revisited in the Washington Post a few years ago. Honest question. I know that you are a successful sales-and-marketing guy. Have you, perchance, been working on contract with any U.S. government-affiliated agency, since 2018, to promote public acceptance of the Warren Commission Report?

Huh? This is defamatory nonsense. I never deleted any such comment. I recently asked Mr. Litwin, a successful sales and marketing professional, if he had ever contracted with any U.S. government-affiliated agencies to denigrate JFKA researchers.

Pat, I agree with the "bad" part. If you re-read my actual comments on this thread, you will, hopefully, realize that I asked Greg Doudna to explain his exuberant claim that Fred Litwin had, "debunked the Rose Cheramie story." Naturally, having previously studied James DiEugenio's detailed critiques of Litwin's work, I was highly skeptical. Let me guess. You read DiEugenio's Litwin essays and there's nothing to see there. Move along now? 🙄

Huh? Delirium tremens? Are you, perchance, pounding Lone Star brews this early in the day, Senor Roe? I asked your colleague, Fred, a few weeks ago if he had ever contracted to do WCR sales work for the Company. It was a question, not an accusation. He never answered my question.

Get a clue, Beer Can Dude. I'm a Harvard grad. Do you know anything about New England's oldest institution of higher learning? Cheramie used multiple aliases.

Wow, Bill. Never heard this one before. Reminds me a bit of Bob Dylan's chilling song, Masters of War. For some reason, I never knew much about Elvis Costello's career. I was more of a Talking Heads aficionado in those days, mainly because I lived in Providence in the late 70s. Bob Dylan has a chapter on Elvis Costello's song, Pump It Up, in his recently published book, The Philosophy of Modern Song.