Jake Hammond

Initially this was going to be a question to LNers , along the lines of ‘ how do you explain the destruction, damage or cutting of several of the video and images showing the turn on to Elm?’ . Before inserting ones foot in ones mouth however it may be prudent to ask if anyone knows of an good image showing this ? There is one I believe but it’s cropped quite tightly on the lower part of the car . Also , is there any GOOD evidence of the Z film been seen by people avec le turn ? Thank you

What do you think of officer Mclain’s interviews. He calmly laughs it off and explains it all. Also the Bill Decker statement which is known to have come later ... seems debunked to me and pretty flimsy to start with.

Sorry to be obtuse but did JFK also hate JFK. ? Had he thought ( perhaps subconciously) that by martyring himself he could achieve more long term. I mean ..., his presidential actions were a mixed bag at best and he was a serial cheat, on a few different medications and had a pretty dodgy back . Did he have a sort of morbid wish for all this ? He just seems to have been incredibly maverick with who he pissed off and the inferences he made in speaches. just a thought.

That’s sort of what I was trying to say to Lance .... let’s reverse your logic . At what point do you think the WC/Bugliosi/ MSM story is imperfect in some minor way ? Balls in your court .

Ye, the wind just falls Out of his body.

To spin your attitude slightly Lance, at what point do you draw the line ? I.e .... at what point do you say ... “ right, ok ... the DPD shouldn’t have done that, and actually the WC deliberately ignored all of that etc... “ . Because beyond any doubt what we can say is that a perfect police investigation , an exemplary and complete Warren Commision was not executed and the FBI’s behaviour is at times strange . So , to put the ball in your court.... where does the LN, Bugliosi, W.C approach veer from the virginal prostine and into the imperfect ? You must have a LITTLE CTer in you otherwise you would believe that the investigation into Tippit was full, complete and respectful and that bullet 399 On the stretcher was the shot that went through the two men ?

Yes, I carrtainly will. I hadn’t meant to get into debate so quickly. I’ll do a second experiment and read some older threads, especially regarding the 12.30-2.00 p.m period. As an excuse I think when there is a strong LN argument in the threads it’s jmpossibke not to get involved because if they are right ... then there’s no point having the forum at all. Merry Christmas

Ok, I read most of the exchange and I have to say DVP it’s a bit of a nothing burger. In my opinion there is a definite ‘ something ‘ at z285 . Also I think using 399 as evidence is just a little bit of a stretch even for a staunch LNer. Let me just say that we need people at all points of the spectrum. Especially those like yourself who actually make sound arguments and present them. I’ll have to disagree for now but Merry Christmas and a happy new Year. Hopefully soon after new year I will be able to conduct a more Cliff acceptable SBT experiment and gain his undying love and affection 😀

I’ll have a look, it does seem to work though as far as I can see. Thank you.

Can you please explain though the points I keep asking about ? I am willing to concede them , as you can see. - The closeness of the shots at the end . was everyone lying AND Oswald was a superman with a rifle ? - The reactions of the limo passengers at z-285. ( this proves 4 shots because it isn’t one of the closely bunched shots at the end ) . Unless , again, everyone is a crackpot. - the thinking of shooting someone from your okace of work I cant help but argue I’m sorry, I had come here to ask a few questions and absorb some knowledge not get into heated debates.

I stand corrected on that point then. Yes, I’m reading Harvey and Lee at the moment so it’s in my sights . Apologies . Not sure on the shell casings.

Again. Yeah there’s a bit of sarcasm, pathos and litotes on there but it was a rebuttal to your bullet points.

Ok I forfeit the smoke evidence, lots of witnesses said they saw a puff of smoke, and , yes it would have originated at the juncture of the triple underpass , that’s where the lost likely place is and where people initially ran to. However I admit that it is inconclusive . At least now though you are engaging evidence and arguing. Let’s get stuck in then to some more realistic stuff. -How did the lone gunman fire off those two close shots at the end ? - how did he manage to suppress the shot that hit jfk in the neck and connally in the armpit ( singke bullet ) but then unsuppress it at the 285 shot that makes everyone literally jump. Including kellerman and Zapruda, the ‘ firecracker shot and the Loud shot were reported by everyone ... crack pots ? - how did he manage to fire three shots and leave two cases at the scene ? - how did a distinctly average shooter shoot one shot that missed by about 10 feet but nail the other two ? With the worlds worst weapon ? - how did he get that weapon if the money order for it was never cashed ? - why keep the fake ID you used in your wallet ? I could go on . There was a lot more in my ‘ a day in the life ‘ .

Nice writing lance but the ‘ holier than thou ‘ thing about how you use ‘ evidence ‘ is getting a bit thin now . You called all of the witnesses who ran to the grassy knoll after ‘crack pots ‘ ? Pot painting the kettle black more like . You then said that the acoustics made it seem like the shots came from there . How ? You have repeatedly ignored my questions about the smoke many people saw and was PHOTOGRAPHED. I wish you’d look at the evidence instead of using it as a pulpit .

I was slightly off with my Muchmore explanation but got the general idea right. The film was shown the next morning and so any teleportation into the future and use of CGI must have been done very quickly. It is of course possible that there were bits cut out but beyond that it is hard to believe that much was done.

John, any explanation as to why they would cut and paste a random man in , who appears to be wearing different clothes also, overnight ?

Thank you Cliff, one step at a time. Next step will be a proper experiment in the New Year. One day we will hold hands and sing from the same hymn book.

Thank you, I'll read later and compare to my own rudimentary timeline.

David, my interest is in the Tippit case, if you have time could you briefly outline what you think happened and why. My mind is open and I'm not looking for an argument.

+1 I really don’t want petty arguments . Or to rehash stuff.

Can I just ask, is there a preferred way to avoid these polarising slanging matches ? I'd joined up to discuss the timeline and motives for the events between 12.30 and 2 with others interested, I know theres always a difference in opinion but maybe theres a way to be civil ? I've seen that there are a couple of different sub sections on the Education forum relating to JFK..... or is it just about starting a topic on a specific question and stating in the opening post you'd like only specifically interested parties to comment ?

Lance, are you saying that the crowds of people who ran to the Knoll are all crackpots ? Yet simultaneously saying that we need to look at the evidence ? The acoustics of Dealy plaza ? are you saying that the sound bounced off the small knoll and bushes but not off the 5+ story buildings elsewhere ? I think you do know what I'm doing in the 'A day in the life'. I obviously cannot reference all the points in there but the general theme of course is to mirror your bullet pointed opening post with Sarcasm... dramatic irony, metaphor, pathos, parody, litotes... and ..........satire. You should get that.

'A day in the life'..... of a Lone Gunman 1 - You're a TV celeb, pro cuba commie and want to kill the president to make yourself feel big and give you some kudos. 2 - You find out before anybody else in the world that the President is coming to town and you know the route, so obviously you get a job in a building on the route and plan to kill him from a room which only a few people, including you, go into. Thats smart, they wouldn't expect that. 2b - before you go any further you throw a red herring... you break into CIA langley, write a 201 file and keep it with Staff D, make a CIA assett code name for yourself and insert' Oswald project into a few documents. This is brilliant, add a gold star to your lapel sir. 3 - You need a gun, something untraceable, something really accurate and quiet. So... You ask Robert Mckeown, Castro's best bud, if he can get you a crappy Walmart rifle if you pay him a massive amount of money, because that is like, so totally obvious it can't be true. He says no. You then write a money order in a fake name you've created and mail it to the gun company. However, you have to call them explain that you don't actually want the money order cashing because you're a socialist and have no money but need a gun to kill the president. They are understanding and take pity on you but can only send you a Carcano for free, the cheapest, most useless weapon. Thats not a problem though because you're a super special sniper and really confident guy. 4 -You then realise that the best thing to do would be to have that weapon be a decoy, to prove your innocence and throw a red herring. So... you don't practice with the weapon or use it on the day , in order to keep the barrel nice and rusty. Also, after dismantling it and putting it back together you reattach the strap, thats just a bit of fun. So, you have the worst weapon ever, re-assembled at the scene ( to further emphasise that it couldn't have been used with any accuracy ), unfired... Perfect ! 5 - Now you need two weapons, one to fire the shot at z- 235 through the neck, a nice quiet one, then a second much louder weapon that you just fire for fun at 285 and 315ish. After you use your magic wand, the one you used to use to make yourself appear in two places at one time between ages 13 and 20, to make the two real weapons disappear. 6- Then to confuse them even more what you do is not shoot as the president is coming straight towards you down Houston, and you have no danger of hitting anyone else, that's too obvious. You wait till the turn and the car is on a curve going down hill away from you , and Boom ! This makes CTers years later think that you formed a triangulation on the triangle of Dealy plaza North, LOL. 7 - You previously set up a friend to shoot from the grassy knoll to leave some smoke and make sure that there is mass confusion and everyone think thats where the bullets came from. 8- Darn ! you hit JFK in the head twice when you (almost) simultaneously fired the two weapons, attempting a confusing miss with one and a headshot with the other. Never mind; more confusion ! 9- Then, you hang around in a few different places at the same time in the building you work in and JFK was shot from so people see you, which makes sense. But then leave the building casually before the headcount. 10- Now, the last thing they'll suspect is that you go and watch a movie. You've checked your wallet and yup, you remembered to keep the fake ID used to buy the decoy gun in there. Not a massive issue if you'd forgotten because you dropped off a spare with Westbrook a few days earlier just in case - pat on the back big boy ! 11 - So as to not arouse suspicion you hide in the doorway of a busy store when the cops roll past not looking for you, then because you need your $10 you have to flee the country , after your movie, you don't buy a ticket for the movie and make sure people see you run in and not buy one, so you don't get caught and stuff. Except you bribe the girl on the booth to tell people that you did buy one. To be sociable you then go and introduce yourself to the five other people on the ground floor of the cinema and sit right next to them sequentially , thats not weird. 12- Fortunately, a guy who is identical to you walks in just after and also doesn't buy a ticket, he then gets arrested on the balcony, led out the fire escape ! YAY ! darn it ! Westbrook just let him go without a report ! Oh well, you tried your best old boy......

A day in the life of a Lone Gunman 1 - You're a TV celeb, pro cuba commie and want to kill the president to make yourself feel big and give you some kudos. 2 - You find out before anybody else in the world that the President is coming to town and you know the route, so obviously you get a job in a building on the route and plan to kill him from a room which only a few people, including you, go into. Thats smart, they wouldn't expect that. 2b - before you go any further you throw a red herring... you break into CIA langley, write a 201 file and keep it with Staff D, make a CIA assett code name for yourself and insert' Oswald project into a few documents. This is brilliant, add a gold star to your lapel sir. 3 - You need a gun, something untraceable, something really accurate and quiet. So... You ask Robert Mckeown, Castro's best bud, if he can get you a crappy Walmart rifle if you pay him a massive amount of money, because that is like, so totally obvious it can't be true. He says no. You then write a money order in a fake name you've created and mail it to the gun company. However, you have to call them explain that you don't actually want the money order cashing because you're a socialist and have no money but need a gun to kill the president. They are understanding and take pity on you but can only send you a Carcano for free, the cheapest, most useless weapon. Thats not a problem though because you're a super special sniper and really confident guy. 4 -You then realise that the best thing to do would be to have that weapon be a decoy, to prove your innocence and throw a red herring. So... you don't practice with the weapon or use it on the day , in order to keep the barrel nice and rusty. Also, after dismantling it and putting it back together you reattach the strap, thats just a bit of fun. So, you have the worst weapon ever, re-assembled at the scene ( to further emphasise that it couldn't have been used with any accuracy ), unfired... Perfect ! 5 - Now you need two weapons, one to fire the shot at z- 235 through the neck, a nice quiet one, then a second much louder weapon that you just fire for fun at 285 and 315ish. After you use your magic wand, the one you used to use to make yourself appear in two places at one time between ages 13 and 20, to make the two real weapons disappear. 6- Then to confuse them even more what you do is not shoot as the president is coming straight towards you down Houston, thats too obvious. You wait till the turn and the car is on a curve going down hill away from you through a tree and Boom ! This makes CTers years later think that you formed a triangulation on the triangle of Dealy plaza North, LOL. 7 - You previously set up a friend to shoot from the grassy knowl to leave some smoke and make sure that there is mass confusion and everyone think thats where the bullets came from. 8- Darn ! you hit JFK in the head twice when you almost simultaneously fired the two weapons, attempting a confusing miss with one and a headshot with the other. Never mind, more confusion ! 9- Then, you hang around in a few different places at the same time in the building you work in and JFK was shot from so people see you, which makes sense. But then leave the building casually before the headcount. 10- Now, the last thing they'll suspect is that you go and watch a movie. You've checked you wallet and yup, you remembered to keep the fake ID used to buy the decoy gun in there. Not a massive issue if you'd forgotten because you dropped off a spare with Westbrook a few days earlier just in case - pat on the back big boy ! 11 - So as to not arouse suspicion you hide in the doorway of a busy store when the cops roll past not looking for you, then because you need your $10 you have to flee the country , after your movie, you don't buy a ticket for the movie and make sure people see you run in and not buy one, so you don't get caught and stuff. Except you bribe the girl on the booth to tell people that you did buy one. To be sociable you then go and introduce yourself to the five other people on the ground floor of the cinema and sit right next to them sequentially , thats not weird. 12- Fortunately, a guy who is identical to you walks in just after and also doesn't buy a ticket, he then gets arrested on the balcony, led out the fire escape ! YAY ! darn it ! Westbrook just let him go without a report ! Oh well, you tried your best old boy......