Michael Hogan

[Bill Miller]

Hmmmm. Small point, but I was definitely near the entrance to the depository

when Miller approached me.

Jack

I guess one could say that we were both in the same plaza and be correct. Like I added to an earlier reply ... are you sure that you are not confusing me with the "Brawny" paper towel guy that you may have seen on the package at the super market at some point???

Bill

[Ron Ecker]

I feel left out whenever a thread goes for three pages without me contributing. First, I want to apologize to Michael Hogan. Second, I want to point out that over the last few years I have had several exchanges on this forum and Lancer with the person known as Bill Miller. (I have always assumed that he really is Bill Miller, since it's my understanding that people in Dallas know Bill Miller, and Michael Hogan has even been to his home. So I don't understand how Bill Miller could be some fictional character.) These exchanges have been educational, with the score about even, Bill getting the best of me a couple of times, and I getting the best of him on a couple of others. But I do have the distinction of discrediting, without even knowing anything about photography, his notion that Black Dog Man was Gordon Arnold. This may be my lasting contribution to JFK research!

[J. Raymond Carroll]

I feel left out whenever a thread goes for three pages without me contributing.

There is an unwritten forum rule that no thread can be considered closed until Ron has had his spake.

But I do have the distinction of discrediting.. his [Miller's] notion that Black Dog Man was Gordon Arnold. This may be my lasting contribution to JFK research!

I am on the fence about BDM and Badgeman and Ed Hoffman and Gordon Arnold (and you know which fence I mean, the one where Hatman can be seen).

[Miles Scull]

If Bill Miller is Larry Peters & if Bill Miller is Gary Mack, is Gary Mack then Larry Peters? Could it be? It just might be.

OK, Jack, wadda ya know, wadda ya say?

Don't forget the name "James Gordon" and/or "Buck Naked" which is another alias I like to use from time to time.

It is my well-known opinion of at least 90 percent likelihood

that "Bill Miller" is an alias of "somebody".

In my opinion, the Simkin "Miller" is not the Dallas "Miller". Could I be

mistaken? Of course. I have met thousands of researchers, and I may

have mixed them up somehow. But each of these two guys made a

distinct impression on me for significantly different reasons.

The intelligence community deals routinely in dual identities, such as

Harvey and Lee.

Jack

Jack,

Thank you for your explanation. Looking over a number of posts, old & new,

on this topic, it becomes clear that the tangle & thicket leaves one pretty confused.

Still the topic keeps turning up, even after all these years. Seem to remember that

you & Gary Mack collaborated on TMWKK, possibly on the badgeman question.

So, I would imagine that with time you came to regard Gary as a good friend and

trusted colleague. (Might add that I have had several contacts with Gary & he's always

been a ready helper when asked.)

Therefore, my guess is that to you the idea that Gary could be Miller or Peters or both

is adsurd on its face. After all, even to an outsider such as I am, the various details you

mention seem to clash strongly with such an idea. Things do not fit together that way. No way.

However, if you have a second, I would like to ask you to consider a poser.

Here's a question:

Can you say with logical certainty that Gary has not had & does not have & never has

had a connection in some way to this strange case?

Miles

[Jack White]

If Bill Miller is Larry Peters & if Bill Miller is Gary Mack, is Gary Mack then Larry Peters? Could it be? It just might be.

OK, Jack, wadda ya know, wadda ya say?

Don't forget the name "James Gordon" and/or "Buck Naked" which is another alias I like to use from time to time.

It is my well-known opinion of at least 90 percent likelihood

that "Bill Miller" is an alias of "somebody".

In my opinion, the Simkin "Miller" is not the Dallas "Miller". Could I be

mistaken? Of course. I have met thousands of researchers, and I may

have mixed them up somehow. But each of these two guys made a

distinct impression on me for significantly different reasons.

The intelligence community deals routinely in dual identities, such as

Harvey and Lee.

Jack

Jack,

Thank you for your explanation. Looking over a number of posts, old & new,

on this topic, it becomes clear that the tangle & thicket leaves one pretty confused.

Still the topic keeps turning up, even after all these years. Seem to remember that

you & Gary Mack collaborated on TMWKK, possibly on the badgeman question.

So, I would imagine that with time you came to regard Gary as a good friend and

trusted colleague. (Might add that I have had several contacts with Gary & he's always

been a ready helper when asked.)

Therefore, my guess is that to you the idea that Gary could be Miller or Peters or both

is adsurd on its face. After all, even to an outsider such as I am, the various details you

mention seem to clash strongly with such an idea. Things do not fit together that way. No way.

However, if you have a second, I would like to ask you to consider a poser.

Here's a question:

Can you say with logical certainty that Gary has not had & does not have & never has

had a connection in some way to this strange case?

Miles

The JFK case is rife with duplicity of a classifed nature.

Jack

[Miles Scull]

Still, to see him mercilessly savaged & degraded recently on the forum by Miller was a sad & painful event for all forum members. It was an unmitigated act of cruelty by Miller which renders the witnessing mods to a position of clearly scarred conscience. I tried to point out this outrage of decency to the mods & John, but I found that they deleted my protest.

Mike has gotten more attention drawn to him from you bringing up the issue in several threads now than what I posted. As i recall, it was Jack who I responded to by merely suggesting that his lost post may have been an act of God. I think Jack's direction was that it was deleted by someone at the highest levels of the forum. Hey Miles ... maybe you can crack that mystery one day.

As far as John deleting any threads - I was not aware, nor do I disagree with his decision to do so. I responded to Jack - Mike responded to me - so I responded back to Mike letting him know that we all could have things about us looked down upon by someone somewhere. From then on it was mostly you (Miles) that made a big deal out of it all.

...

That's not true at all. I thought you were completely out of line in the removed thread, I said so, and I reported you for it.

No one had to make a big deal out of it Miller 'cause it was a big deal already.

Behavior that bad is a big deal.

Myra,

Very true. Couple of associated thoughts:

After pushing to envelope of decency to the breaking point, Miller then happily breaks it, as in the Hogan case. Then when this occurs & members complain, Miller remembers that he has been expelled from other forums. Miller then becomes the mild mannered, affable milk man who purrs & fawns before the Mods who are apparently shocked senseless at witnessing the enormity of Miller's outrage. As an old time troller Miller knows that as time goes by the thread of his outrage will fade away & all will be conveniently forgotten. Miller banks on his alleged reputation as a "photo expert" to cow the mods during the time required for his outrage to drift away into oblivion. A nice con.

[Miles Scull]

The JFK case is rife with duplicity of a classifed nature.

Jack

[J. Raymond Carroll]

Miller banks on his alleged reputation as a "photo expert" to cow the mods during the time required for his outrage to drift away into oblivion. A nice con.

I submit that there is nothing "alleged" about Bill Miller's contribution to the ongoing inquiry into the significance of the extant photo evidence in the JFK case. He has been recognized for his contributions by a Mary ferrell award at Lancer and his work has been praised by that most venerable JFK researcher, Josiah Thompson, among others.

Balance all that against his alleged "outrage" against Michael Hogan and I think we are dealing with mountains vs. molehills.

The offending thread has been deleted, but as I recall, it seemed to amount to no more than a reference to an incident that might give some people a good chuckle at Michael Hogan's expense. Michael is a big boy, and he has demonstrated in the past that he can certainly dish it out himself, so I don't see how this gets to be a Federal Case.

[Bill Miller]

That's not true at all. I thought you were completely out of line in the removed thread, I said so, and I reported you for it.

No one had to make a big deal out of it Miller 'cause it was a big deal already.

Behavior that bad is a big deal.

Myra,

Very true. Couple of associated thoughts:

After pushing to envelope of decency to the breaking point, Miller then happily breaks it, as in the Hogan case. Then when this occurs & members complain, Miller remembers that he has been expelled from other forums. Miller then becomes the mild mannered, affable milk man who purrs & fawns before the Mods who are apparently shocked senseless at witnessing the enormity of Miller's outrage. As an old time troller Miller knows that as time goes by the thread of his outrage will fade away & all will be conveniently forgotten. Miller banks on his alleged reputation as a "photo expert" to cow the mods during the time required for his outrage to drift away into oblivion. A nice con.

You people are nuts!!! You make a mockery out of JFK's assassination by spending more time trying to be tabloid writers. My cause consisted of telling Jack that maybe God prevented his post from showing up on the forum - to telling a long time friend on the JFK case that he too could have people say that there are things about him that they might not respect. When he asked what that could be - I sent him a private message answering that question. It was the sh*t disturbers who have made it more than it was. In some aspects - I wish the thread would have stayed in place so people could go back and read exactly what was said and by whom. Miller is Mack - Peters is Miller - Gordon is Miller and Peters. John Simkin pointed out that my writing style is similar to Mack's, but his contacts with Mack have been through emails. Can anyone tell me how I can send email via Gary Mack's email address???

It's little wonder that such ridiculous threads get so much attention from a very select few because the JFK case is much more vast and time consuming to learn compared to reading tabloid type postings.

The real Bill Miller

Edited July 2, 2007 by Bill Miller

[Myra Bronstein]

Very true. Couple of associated thoughts:

After pushing to envelope of decency to the breaking point, Miller then happily breaks it, as in the Hogan case. Then when this occurs & members complain, Miller remembers that he has been expelled from other forums. Miller then becomes the mild mannered, affable milk man who purrs & fawns before the Mods who are apparently shocked senseless at witnessing the enormity of Miller's outrage. As an old time troller Miller knows that as time goes by the thread of his outrage will fade away & all will be conveniently forgotten. Miller banks on his alleged reputation as a "photo expert" to cow the mods during the time required for his outrage to drift away into oblivion. A nice con.

One associated thought:

My Controls/Manage Ignored Users/Add a new user to your list

Edited July 2, 2007 by Myra Bronstein

[Myra Bronstein]

...

Can't we move on?

Done.

[Miles Scull]

May 24, 2007 blog from Salon.com:

The Education Forum, a sprawling complex of chat rooms covering a broad spectrum of history subjects, was created by an enterprising British scholar named John Simkin. Its many discussion threads on the Kennedy presidency and its violent end are provocative and refreshingly free of the obsessive nuttiness and flame-throwing that characterize many online Kennedy circles. Simkin's forum has attracted respected JFK researchers like Anthony Summers and Larry Hancock, as well as dozens of serious amateur historians well worth talking with, and even the occasional aging source with some firsthand information about the case.

The Mary Ferrell Foundation and Education Forum sites are both shining examples of communal learning and research -- exactly what the Internet was intended to do, in all its democratic glory.

-- David Talbot

Wonder what he'd think if he'd been around here lately???

Wouldn't it be a great idea if we stopped all this, and set some sort of standard for ourselves, as Talbot thinks we have?

Good point, Kathy!

I was just out the door to catch the A train to a couple of new forum topics. The atmosphere around here has lost it's freshness & was becoming too hot. But just as I reached the door, the phone rang, so it was back down the hall to see who was calling. Exasperating! I was just about to move on, Kathy, as your advice was welcome & constructive. Damn!

Guess who was calling? Yep, it was Miller.

Now, take a look at this thread:

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...0251&st=300

Then take a look at this one:

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=10390

I agree with Jack 100%.

Why is Miller leaping into EBC's brand new thread which EBC just started up, considering the terrible exchanges Miller caused over on EBC's old thread?

Making high resolution scans of poor blurry reproductions is of no benefit to anyone.

That's not true. As Miller could easily see from my post, EBC's scans are very beneficial to me. Miller is deliberately insulting to me & worse to EBC. Miller is obviously trying to stir up trouble & resentment.

Jack had the best prints available to do his work with ... this point seems to continually get forgotten be a few folks.

"...a few folks"? Who might that be? Maybe me & EBC? Miller is sneering & snide & is obviously trying to stir up trouble & resentment.

Had Jack of only had the print that these so-called enhancements were made from,

"...so-called"? An insult. It probably took EBC a lot of effort to produce these scans. Miller is sneering & snide & is obviously trying to stir up trouble & resentment.

then there would not have been a Badge Man or a Gordon Arnold.

Jack said, "Your badgeman area is an unrecognizable blur." In case someone

"...someone"? Who would that be? Maybe me & EBC? Miller is sneering & snide & is obviously trying to stir up trouble & resentment.

still doesn't know what Jack has implied ... let me have a crack at it.

Why? Jack was clear enough. Miller is trying to rub it in. Why? Miller is sneering & snide & is obviously trying to stir up trouble & resentment.

If using a copy print that is so blurry that one can no longer see the recognizable images in the good print, then one isn't going to find legitimate

"...legitimate"? Why choose this word? Is EBC trying to do something illegitimate? An insult. Miller is sneering & snide & is obviously trying to stir up trouble & resentment.

shapes and figures after the clarity has been lost. In other words - blurring an image loses information - it doesn't offer new information.

Of course, this so obvious that it's clear that Miller is deliberately adopting the tone of a teacher explaining the obvious to a child in order to deliver an insult. Miller is sneering & snide & is trying to stir up trouble & resentment.

Bill

This post has been edited by Bill Miller: Today, 05:08 PM

So, Kathy, here we were just on the brink of MOVING ON & what happens? Miller begins to pollute & poison a perfectly new, fresh & clean thread that was not his thread but was started by a helpful & polite member. Review all of EBC's posts. Then, see what happens when Miller starts with the jabs & the taunts & the digs & the insults & the slanders & the defamations & the needling & the baiting. A real nice picture for David Talbot! Oh yeah. Now what are the Mods going to do about this?

WHO IS NOT MOVING ON?

Edited July 2, 2007 by Miles Scull

[Dixie Dea]

Because of all the controversy in regard to Jack White vs Bill Miller and their first encounter, I now feel compelled to try and make some order out of chaos...if possible.....:-) I definitely do not intend to appear to be taking sides, but just to tell things that I recall. I have been most reluctant to say anythiung, but I also believe this issue is going to keep resurfacing.

First of all, I have met Jack and do think a lot of him and have enjoyed talking with him and even regard him as a friend. I have never met Bill, although I did share emails with him, long time ago and he also sent me some thongs he was offernng at the time. I thought he was quite friendly too.

Jack did mention that it is possible he is not remembering right. So, I have to say this...Jack is misremembering some of the events under question! For the very first time, I went to Dallas, in Nov. of 2000. For some reason, both the Lancer and COPA Conferences were held on different dates that year, and I was actually able to stay the whole week and attend both. First I attended Lancer and stayed at, I believe it was the Ramada, that time. When it ended, I moved over to the Hotel Lawrence (then it was the old Paramount Hotel), which is right there by DP. Once I got checked into the Lawrence, a couple of friends and I went on over to DP and I believe the Memorial was also on that same day.

After most everyone had left DP, I happened to notice Jack and Groden greeting each other, over behween the parking lot and the pergola. Then a little later, I also saw Jack, Mantik and Fetzer across the street doing some measurements, where Mary Moorman and Jean Hill were standing, during the JFK motorcade.

Jack had been a menber of Rich DellaRosa's forum for some years before i ever joined it. In fact, I believe he was one of the original members. Some time after my trip to Dallas, we got a new member at Rich's forum, named Bill Miller. I believe it was still in year 2000 or possibly early 2001. It was mentioned then, about Bill meeting Jack and their emails and I believe phone calls and exchanges. Jack had also invited Bill to join that forum, which he did so.

During this time, Bill was exhibiting friendliness...although he also seemed compelled to reply after everyones posts, just as some here do...:-) I never heard anyone mention they actuallly knew him or had ever heard of him before. Of course. it is possible some knew him from other JFK research circles. Once when Bill and I had email contact, he ask me if I had noticed a red=headed man, with a suit on and around the Pedestal area. He said he was waiting for Groden to go out to dinner with him. Well, I had not noticed such a person.since I was too engrosed in looking around DP. Yet I had no doubt he was there.

I do not have any personal knowledge of Bill and Jack meeting on that day and yet that was the day they met, according to them both later. Bill has also stated that he spoke at the Lancer Conference on that year. Now that part is puzzling to me. I attended most all the Lancer speakers that year. I do not recall a Bill Miller speaking at all., Nor can I even find his name among the other speakers listred...and have never seen his name among the DVDs from that year. I do know however, that he did speak the following year 2001, and I was unable to go that year. I don't know if Bill has messed up on his years that he actually spoke, or if he somehow totally escaped my notice. I think some have verified that he spoke that year. Yet actually that part is not pertinent to the question of Jack and Bill's meeting. I also do not recall seeing Jack anyplace around DP, except around the pedestal and pergola area and across the street.

After awhile. at that form, Bill seemed to drastically change. In fact, I was seeing that he was baiting Jack for something. I even sensed he was setting him up for the kill. And actually that is what occurred. He did become more beligerant towards Jack. and he was also 86'd because of it. Bill then went in with Debra for the Lancer forum and many of us were invited to join them. I did do so, and have been a member of both forums and this one as well as a few more obsure ones. I do not practice partiality, but take research forums to offer different areas of research.

After, Bill was tossed from that forum, Jack told about their initial meeting. He said, even back then, that Bill seemed to deliberately seek him out and ingratiated himswlf after that, and he also mentioned he had invited Bill to join that forum because of their (then) friendly exchanges.

I cannot swear that this same Bill Miller was or wasn't the person Jack met that day, yet I feel that it most definitely was. because of things they both said at the time. I believe that Jack has confused Bill with some other person...possibly one that he did meet years ago. Bill was definitely not a member of Rich's forum, way back, when Jack first joined it. There would have been no reason at all, for Bill to have told me in an email, back when he was on Rich's forum, the circumstances of when he met Jack, just as he states today.

I do believe that through the years, Jack has met so many JFK Researchers, LN's, wannabe's as well as disinfo's and frauds and cons...so I believe he is just confused, which we all do sometimes.

As for the Bill Milller and Larry Peters controversy, I also have an opinion about that. I do not know that I am right or wrong, yet I feel that I might be right. I believe they are actually two different people. But...I also believe that Larry is a friend of Bills,. living in a differnt area then Bill. I also believe that Bill was sending forum messages for Larry to post for him, under Larry's own name. So, of course they were able to both be showing up here at the same time. All of the posts under Larry's name are totally and typically Bill Miller. Same arguments, same wording and same sarcasm towards some members. Others have also been able to recognize this. I believe that for some reason.Bill did not want te come here from Lancer, under his own name at first. So, instead, the Larry counter-part was used. It was tried on more then one occasion, but was always the same type of posts. I am not making any sort of condemnation, but just only stating as I see it.

I hope i haven't only confused things even more...:-) One other thing though. Jean Hill passed away, just a few days before that year 2000 Conference. so we were all mentioning her name qute a bit that year.

____________

Dixie

[Bill Miller]

As for the Bill Milller and Larry Peters controversy, I also have an opinion about that. I do not know that I am right or wrong, yet I feel that I might be right. I believe they are actually two different people. But...I also believe that Larry is a friend of Bills,. living in a differnt area then Bill. I also believe that Bill was sending forum messages for Larry to post for him, under Larry's own name. So, of course they were able to both be showing up here at the same time. All of the posts under Larry's name are totally and typically Bill Miller. Same arguments, same wording and same sarcasm towards some members. Others have also been able to recognize this. I believe that for some reason.Bill did not want te come here from Lancer, under his own name at first. So, instead, the Larry counter-part was used. It was tried on more then one occasion, but was always the same type of posts. I am not making any sort of condemnation, but just only stating as I see it.

Dixie ... you have a fairly good memory and thanks for taking the time to help set the record straight. If you were in the Plaza on 11/22 and I said I was waiting for Groden, then that is most likely spot on as well for Robert's B-day is the same day of the year that JFK was assassinated and every time I am in Dallas on the anniversary - I have taken Robert to dinner that evening. Sometimes we then will swing by one of the local pubs where Robert likes to go because they have a band there that plays Beatle music throughout the night.

Jack has already admitted that he was given an 8 x 10 negative in the plaza, thus that was me. Tony Cummings with staying with me on that trip and he can be seen in a few of the White, Fetzer, Mantik photos while they messed with that "Moorman in the Street" nonsense. I had not heard that Moorman was there that day ... sorry I missed that. Mark Oakes sells signed Moorman photos for Mary and Mark has said to me that Mary thought her being in the street to take her famous photo was silly. If it seems like I have baited Jack ... you are probably right about that. Jack has unknowingly to himself made alteration claims that are destroyed by other claims he has made. The best example was Jack claiming Moorman and Hill were in the street as the limo passed by them and at the same time he is telling the research community that he believes the Altgens photo is genuine and unaltered. Of course, we all know that Moorman and Hill's shadows are coming from the grass, thus Jack's Moorman in the street claim is in error. My baiting was to lay the ground work for showing how Jack's claims fall short on their own merit. I recall asking if he thought Altgens photo was altered so to establish that point before pointing out why he destroys the alteration claim against where Moorman stood in the Zfilm.

As many know - I spend a good part of the year in the mountains and get into periods of time that I cannot even get Internet access unless I happen to have traveled somewhere to do so.

Bill

PS; Debra Conway can probably best state what happened, but I spoke on a Saturday morning and I was alloted 45 minutes as I recall. I believe that I went nearly 1.5 hours and another hour out in the hall afterwards answering questions and showing those negatives at the sunlit windows. That was the year that I met Al carrier who also had been a presenter. I found Al unique. Al is a seasoned law enforcement officer with quite an impressive background right up to working with the SS when the President has been in his area. Getting back to my presentation - I was later told that the audio was not running during my presentation and I am guessing that this is why it may not be found on Lancer's Conference CD.

Edited July 2, 2007 by Bill Miller

[Miles Scull]

Because of all the controversy in regard to Jack White vs Bill Miller and their first encounter, I now feel compelled to try and make some order out of chaos...if possible.....:-) I definitely do not intend to appear to be taking sides, but just to tell things that I recall. I have been most reluctant to say anythiung, but I also believe this issue is going to keep resurfacing.

First of all, I have met Jack and do think a lot of him and have enjoyed talking with him and even regard him as a friend. I have never met Bill, although I did share emails with him, long time ago and he also sent me some thongs he was offernng at the time. I thought he was quite friendly too.

Jack did mention that it is possible he is not remembering right. So, I have to say this...Jack is misremembering some of the events under question! For the very first time, I went to Dallas, in Nov. of 2000. For some reason, both the Lancer and COPA Conferences were held on different dates that year, and I was actually able to stay the whole week and attend both. First I attended Lancer and stayed at, I believe it was the Ramada, that time. When it ended, I moved over to the Hotel Lawrence (then it was the old Paramount Hotel), which is right there by DP. Once I got checked into the Lawrence, a couple of friends and I went on over to DP and I believe the Memorial was also on that same day.

After most everyone had left DP, I happened to notice Jack and Groden greeting each other, over behween the parking lot and the pergola. Then a little later, I also saw Jack, Mantik and Fetzer across the street doing some measurements, where Mary Moorman and Jean Hill were standing, during the JFK motorcade.

Jack had been a menber of Rich DellaRosa's forum for some years before i ever joined it. In fact, I believe he was one of the original members. Some time after my trip to Dallas, we got a new member at Rich's forum, named Bill Miller. I believe it was still in year 2000 or possibly early 2001. It was mentioned then, about Bill meeting Jack and their emails and I believe phone calls and exchanges. Jack had also invited Bill to join that forum, which he did so.

During this time, Bill was exhibiting friendliness...although he also seemed compelled to reply after everyones posts, just as some here do...:-) I never heard anyone mention they actuallly knew him or had ever heard of him before. Of course. it is possible some knew him from other JFK research circles. Once when Bill and I had email contact, he ask me if I had noticed a red=headed man, with a suit on and around the Pedestal area. He said he was waiting for Groden to go out to dinner with him. Well, I had not noticed such a person.since I was too engrosed in looking around DP. Yet I had no doubt he was there.

I do not have any personal knowledge of Bill and Jack meeting on that day and yet that was the day they met, according to them both later. Bill has also stated that he spoke at the Lancer Conference on that year. Now that part is puzzling to me. I attended most all the Lancer speakers that year. I do not recall a Bill Miller speaking at all., Nor can I even find his name among the other speakers listred...and have never seen his name among the DVDs from that year. I do know however, that he did speak the following year 2001, and I was unable to go that year. I don't know if Bill has messed up on his years that he actually spoke, or if he somehow totally escaped my notice. I think some have verified that he spoke that year. Yet actually that part is not pertinent to the question of Jack and Bill's meeting. I also do not recall seeing Jack anyplace around DP, except around the pedestal and pergola area and across the street.

After awhile. at that form, Bill seemed to drastically change. In fact, I was seeing that he was baiting Jack for something. I even sensed he was setting him up for the kill. And actually that is what occurred. He did become more beligerant towards Jack. and he was also 86'd because of it. Bill then went in with Debra for the Lancer forum and many of us were invited to join them. I did do so, and have been a member of both forums and this one as well as a few more obsure ones. I do not practice partiality, but take research forums to offer different areas of research.

After, Bill was tossed from that forum, Jack told about their initial meeting. He said, even back then, that Bill seemed to deliberately seek him out and ingratiated himswlf after that, and he also mentioned he had invited Bill to join that forum because of their (then) friendly exchanges.

I cannot swear that this same Bill Miller was or wasn't the person Jack met that day, yet I feel that it most definitely was. because of things they both said at the time. I believe that Jack has confused Bill with some other person...possibly one that he did meet years ago. Bill was definitely not a member of Rich's forum, way back, when Jack first joined it. There would have been no reason at all, for Bill to have told me in an email, back when he was on Rich's forum, the circumstances of when he met Jack, just as he states today.

I do believe that through the years, Jack has met so many JFK Researchers, LN's, wannabe's as well as disinfo's and frauds and cons...so I believe he is just confused, which we all do sometimes.

As for the Bill Milller and Larry Peters controversy, I also have an opinion about that. I do not know that I am right or wrong, yet I feel that I might be right. I believe they are actually two different people. But...I also believe that Larry is a friend of Bills,. living in a differnt area then Bill. I also believe that Bill was sending forum messages for Larry to post for him, under Larry's own name. So, of course they were able to both be showing up here at the same time. All of the posts under Larry's name are totally and typically Bill Miller. Same arguments, same wording and same sarcasm towards some members. Others have also been able to recognize this. I believe that for some reason.Bill did not want te come here from Lancer, under his own name at first. So, instead, the Larry counter-part was used. It was tried on more then one occasion, but was always the same type of posts. I am not making any sort of condemnation, but just only stating as I see it.

I hope i haven't only confused things even more...:-) One other thing though. Jean Hill passed away, just a few days before that year 2000 Conference. so we were all mentioning her name qute a bit that year.

____________

Dixie

Dixie,

Thanks for helping out with a much needed elucidation. All will profit.

I would like to focus on just one area for the moment, if I may with apologies.

I do so for the probative evidentiary value of this passage:

"After awhile. at that form, Bill seemed to drastically change. In fact, I was seeing that he was baiting Jack for something. I even sensed he was setting him up for the kill. And actually that is what occurred. He did become more beligerant towards Jack. and he was also 86'd because of it."

This is an addendum for Kathy & the other Mods.

This is the exact forum behavior which is currently being practiced by Miller. This shows that this behavior of Miller's is systemic with & endemic to Miller. The only thing that changes is Miller's victim. Hogan, Jack, EBC, me. Who's next?