On the two men Bowers saw ....

[Chris Davidson]

Hat Movement.

Looping back and forth.

chris

[Bill Miller]

As I now look at it closer, I can actually see the front of his cap turning towards the camera.

Okay.

Hudson was wearing a cap, a smart flat cap, that is clearly seen in Nix.

Those frames in Zapruder make it look like he's wearing a helmet.

It's the leaves in the bush that are doing that.

I think he is turning to his left(towards Zapruder), not watching the limo.

Emmett Hudson had very thick bushy hair. You are not seeing the bill of a cap looking towards Zapruder, but rather Hudson's hair sticking out the bottom of his cap. I too have thick hair and when wearing a cap, my hair also does as Hudson's did. In fact, I have seen that happen with many people who have a thick head of hair who wears a cap. As Hudson turns with the limo, the straight-on view from the rear allows his hair that is fraying out from under the base of his cap to become more noticeable.

Bill Miller

Edited November 5, 2007 by Bill Miller

[Ken Rheberg]

Miles now says this regarding Emmett Hudson:

“Hudson was as cracked as the Liberty Bell & sounded as false.”

That’s actually good for this Forum because Miles can no longer rely on Hudson for support of his outrageous theories about the men on the stairs. Hudson had been quoted by Miles even down to the smallest of details such as Hudson's use of the word “so.” Now with only cracked and false testimony for support, all of Miles’ arguments about the men on the stairs can be disregarded. If Miles tries telling any of you that Red Shirt Man was Hudson’s “young fellow,” don’t listen to him. He has no basis for telling you that anymore. And while Miles has taken the easy way out -- if you're losing the argument, claim the witness is cracked -- I believe Hudson. There's a real freedom in that. As I said before, just let Hudson speak for himself.

Ken

[Miles Scull]

Miles now says this regarding Emmett Hudson:

“Hudson was as cracked as the Liberty Bell & sounded as false.”

-- if you're losing the argument, claim the witness is cracked -- I believe Hudson. There's a real freedom in that. As I said before, just let Hudson speak for himself.

Ken

Mr. LIEBELER - Did you see that shot hit anything - the third shot?

Mr. HUDSON - No, sir. I'll tell you - this young fellow that was sitting there with me - standing there with me at the present time, he says, "lay down, Mister, somebody is shooting the President." He says, "Lay down, lay down." and he kept repeating, "Lay down." so he was already laying down one way on the sidewalk, so I just laid down over (i.e., "over" from the sidewalk because RSM was already there & there was no room for me there, on the sidewalk) on the ground and resting my arm on the ground and when that third shot rung out and when I was close to the ground - you could tell the shot was coming from above and kind of behind.

Hudson says that he laid himself down on the ground & while in this position he heard the third shot ring out.

But Hudson is standing 3 to 4 seconds before the limo enters the underpass. It will take at least 1 second for Hudson to lie down.

So, by letting Hudson speak for himself, it can be seen that Hudson is saying that the third shot occurred at 7 seconds post Z-313.

[Bill Miller]

But Hudson is standing 3 to 4 seconds before the limo enters the underpass. It will take at least 1 second for Hudson to lie down.

I don't even think Hudson has to be all the way lying down. He seems to be saying that his arm was on the ground, but regardless of how his mind recorded the events in his head ... Jackie was able to get up and climb out onto the trunk of the limo in the same amount of time and people should know that getting down is always easier and faster than getting up ... would you not agree to that, Miles???

Bill Miller

[Miles Scull]

But Hudson is standing 3 to 4 seconds before the limo enters the underpass. It will take at least 1 second for Hudson to lie down.

I don't even think Hudson has to be all the way lying down. He seems to be saying that his arm was on the ground, but regardless of how his mind recorded the events in his head ... Jackie was able to get up and climb out onto the trunk of the limo in the same amount of time and people should know that getting down is always easier and faster than getting up ... would you not agree to that, Miles???

Bill Miller

Hudson, as a credible witness, goes down for the count:

[Bill Miller]

Hudson, as a credible witness, goes down for the count:

Get some help, Miles!

"Like I have said before, I am quite sure, Miles' goal here is not to engage in true JFK assassination debate, ....................................... (at times he sticks to rather insignificant minute details, and argues about these for pages and pages)."

Edited November 5, 2007 by Bill Miller

[Miles Scull]

Hudson, as a credible witness, goes down for the count:

Get some help, Miles!

"Like I have said before, I am quite sure, Miles' goal here is not to engage in true JFK assassination debate, ....................................... (at times he sticks to rather insignificant minute details, and argues about these for pages and pages)."

[Ken Rheberg]

Miles knows he's painted himself into a corner.

In my last post, I indicated that since Miles now believed Emmett Hudson's testimony was "cracked" and "false," then there were really no grounds for Miles to rely on it. No point in bringing up Red Shirt Man and what he did on the stairs according to Hudson. No reason to bring up what Hudson said about anything. It's "cracked" and "false."

So, Miles, we can just file away your cracked/false hypothesis, and move on without you on the subject of Hudson and the men on the stairs. Your stand on Hudson has taken you out of the discussion. You've made your point.

So what does Miles do? He responds to me in this manner:

"Hudson says that he laid himself down on the ground & while in this position he heard the third shot ring out.

But Hudson is standing 3 to 4 seconds before the limo enters the underpass. It will take at least 1 second for Hudson to lie down.

So, by letting Hudson speak for himself, it can be seen that Hudson is saying that the third shot occurred at 7 seconds post Z-313."

Miles is still quoting Hudson. He then attaches a Zapruder frame showing an object Bill Miller believes is Hudson's head.

Miles, you've already made your point. Hudson's testimony is "cracked" and "false." But here you are, bringing up what Hudson said all over again, in another subtle attack on Bill. It doesn't work anymore, Miles. Hudson is unreliable according to you. Why is your own position so hard for you to understand?

Ken

[Miles Scull]

But here you are, bringing up what Hudson said all over again, in another subtle attack on Bill.

Ken

This does not make any sense.

I am objectively questioning the consistency & integrity of Hudson's testimony, because it bears on Bowers' testimony, the topic of this tread.

That's all, no more, no less.

How is that an attack on Bill?

It seems to me that you are off topic, way off.

Edited November 5, 2007 by Miles Scull

[Alan Healy]

Hat Movement.

Looping back and forth.

chris

Nice one Chris,

I can now for the first time see the hat falling downwards.

Can anyone else?

[Miles Scull]

Hat Movement.

Looping back and forth.

chris

Nice one Chris,

I can now for the first time see the hat falling downwards.

Can anyone else?

Oopla!

Yes, down it goes.

[Alan Healy]

I'll make one correction.

Nix makes it look like he's wearing a flat cap but it's most likely a baseball type cap as the Zfilm shows

but,

your still wrong, that's not his hair lol, it's the peak of the cap & it's turning to the left.

Moorman shows Emmett's face more shadowed than the other two & no sign of any hair sticking out the sides.

Your wrong again.

As I now look at it closer, I can actually see the front of his cap turning towards the camera.

Okay.

Hudson was wearing a cap, a smart flat cap, that is clearly seen in Nix.

Those frames in Zapruder make it look like he's wearing a helmet.

It's the leaves in the bush that are doing that.

I think he is turning to his left(towards Zapruder), not watching the limo.

Emmett Hudson had very thick bushy hair. You are not seeing the bill of a cap looking towards Zapruder, but rather Hudson's hair sticking out the bottom of his cap. I too have thick hair and when wearing a cap, my hair also does as Hudson's did. In fact, I have seen that happen with many people who have a thick head of hair who wears a cap. As Hudson turns with the limo, the straight-on view from the rear allows his hair that is fraying out from under the base of his cap to become more noticeable.

Bill Miller

[Bill Miller]

What a waste of forum space ..... "Like I have said before, I am quite sure, Miles' goal here is not to engage in true JFK assassination debate"

[Bill Miller]

I'll make one correction.

Nix makes it look like he's wearing a flat cap but it's most likely a baseball type cap as the Zfilm shows

but,

your still wrong, that's not his hair lol, it's the peak of the cap & it's turning to the left.

Moorman shows Emmett's face more shadowed than the other two & no sign of any hair sticking out the sides.

Your wrong again.

Alan, I went over this is Hudson's son and that was how I learned about his dad's hair being so thick. The bush doesn't move, but the head between the opening does and it goes from left to right with each advancement of the limo. The Zapruder film picks up just as Nix film stops showing Hudson ... if you look at this clip and feel that the head moving with the limo is Hudson not watching the president, but is rather looking the other way, then that's just one more mistake you have made IMO. For Emmet to be looking to his left and to have his head move to the west in perfect harmony to the limo is without logical reasoning to me.

Edited November 5, 2007 by Bill Miller