Dave Greer Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 Evan , Dave and Gavin ... Thanks for all the diagrams , articles and explainations about perspective and the effects of different size lenses on the size of background objects ... The GIF of the "growing" house with the car in the foreground does explain why the "mountains" grew to such enormous proportions using a 500mm lens , I guess .Not being a photographer I was thinking that the camera "sees" what the eye sees , but that is obviously not the case and does explain why the perspective looks so strangely backwards in some of the Apollo photos . No worries - contrary to what you may think I'm not here to obfuscate! Merry Christmas everybody ! Indeed - have a good one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Daman Posted December 23, 2007 Author Share Posted December 23, 2007 Evan , Dave and Gavin ... Thanks for all the diagrams , articles and explainations about perspective and the effects of different size lenses on the size of background objects ... The GIF of the "growing" house with the car in the foreground does explain why the "mountains" grew to such enormous proportions using a 500mm lens , I guess .Not being a photographer I was thinking that the camera "sees" what the eye sees , but that is obviously not the case and does explain why the perspective looks so strangely backwards in some of the Apollo photos . No worries - contrary to what you may think I'm not here to obfuscate! Merry Christmas everybody ! Indeed - have a good one Merry Christmas to you too Dave ! Don't be downing too many of those Guiness now ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Greer Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 Guys! Time out! Tis the season to be jolly, good will to all men, and all that. I'm popping out for some pre-Christmas Eve Guinnesses - I hope when I come back here that you two are friends again. Go on, pucker up: you know you want to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evan Burton Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 Come on guys - stop the bickering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack White Posted December 24, 2007 Share Posted December 24, 2007 You are out of your league lecturing me on the effects of telescopic lens. I bought my first telephoto lens (300mm) in 1953 and shot thousands of slides with it and others (135mm, 110mm, 85mm and Zoom). What were YOU doing in 1953? The most common error of lay people trying to talk about telephoto lenses is to pontificate on LENS COMPRESSION. This is nonsense. The only function of of a telephoto lens is to crop the image down to the central area of the lens axis. The image is NOT compressed, just cropped and the central area made larger. The CENTRAL area of an image will be IDENTICAL, whether shot with 50mm or 500mm, unless the camera position is moved. Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Lamson Posted December 24, 2007 Share Posted December 24, 2007 ...unless the camera position is moved.Jack So what happens when the camera position is moved? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack White Posted December 24, 2007 Share Posted December 24, 2007 ...unless the camera position is moved.Jack So what happens when the camera position is moved? ANY PHOTOGRAPHER knows that when the camera position is moved, the camera will record a DIFFERENT image. Duh. Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavin Stone Posted December 24, 2007 Share Posted December 24, 2007 Merry Christmas Everyone, I will return once the Beer has worn off, so see you in about 4-5 days haha! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Greer Posted December 24, 2007 Share Posted December 24, 2007 You are out of your league lecturing me on the effects of telescopic lens. I bought my first telephoto lens (300mm) in 1953 and shot thousands of slides with it and others (135mm, 110mm, 85mm and Zoom). What were YOU doing in 1953? The most common error of lay people trying to talk about telephoto lenses is to pontificate on LENS COMPRESSION. This is nonsense. The only function of of a telephoto lens is to crop the image down to the central area of the lens axis. The image is NOT compressed, just cropped and the central area made larger. The CENTRAL area of an image will be IDENTICAL, whether shot with 50mm or 500mm, unless the camera position is moved. Jack Jack, for once you've said something I agree with. The images Duane referred to were take from places several kilometres apart though - so I'm not sure what point you're making with regard to the Apollo images in question? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Lamson Posted December 24, 2007 Share Posted December 24, 2007 ...unless the camera position is moved.Jack So what happens when the camera position is moved? ANY PHOTOGRAPHER knows that when the camera position is moved, the camera will record a DIFFERENT image. Duh. Jack Yes, and the 'compression effect' exists. It appears the the only one in a different "league" would be you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack White Posted December 24, 2007 Share Posted December 24, 2007 ...unless the camera position is moved.Jack So what happens when the camera position is moved? ANY PHOTOGRAPHER knows that when the camera position is moved, the camera will record a DIFFERENT image. Duh. Jack Yes, and the 'compression effect' exists. It appears the the only one in a different "league" would be you. Amazing! A professional photographer who claims that changing a camera viewpoint CREATES A COMPRESSION EFFECT! Duh! It is easily proved that FROM THE SAME VIEWPOINT, a telephoto lens records the EXACT central image as a wide angle lens. "Compression" does not exist. From a different viewpoint, a different image will be created. Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Lamson Posted December 24, 2007 Share Posted December 24, 2007 ...unless the camera position is moved.Jack So what happens when the camera position is moved? ANY PHOTOGRAPHER knows that when the camera position is moved, the camera will record a DIFFERENT image. Duh. Jack Yes, and the 'compression effect' exists. It appears the the only one in a different "league" would be you. Amazing! A professional photographer who claims that changing a camera viewpoint CREATES A COMPRESSION EFFECT! Duh! It is easily proved that FROM THE SAME VIEWPOINT, a telephoto lens records the EXACT central image as a wide angle lens. "Compression" does not exist. From a different viewpoint, a different image will be created. Jack Whats amazing is your refusal to admit the compression effect exists. The posted images prove you wrong. No one denies that from the same position the same perspective is produced, however that is a strawman in the images in question. However ,fill the frame with the subject with a 50 mm lens and then change lenses and camera positions and fill the frame with the same subject and shoot with a 500mm lens and see the 'compression effect". Its amazing that you claim to be professional and you deny this very basic effect exists. Of course that has been poiinted out to you more than once in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Daman Posted December 30, 2007 Author Share Posted December 30, 2007 (edited) At least seven posts have been deleted from this thread ... Several from Lamson for showing his true colors ( all hateful ) , several from me , exposing Lamson's true colors , and the last one from Greg Parker , who made a rather perceptive joke about Lamson's attack antics against Jack , by comparing them to a Monty Python skit . Were these posts deleted so Lamson could once again have the final say ? ...Or were they deleted because they showed him up for what he really is on this forum ? I would like to know which moderator took it upon himself to delete these posts and why ... No moderator should be able to display this type of bias on this forum by deleting anyone's post comments . Edited December 30, 2007 by Duane Daman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Daman Posted December 30, 2007 Author Share Posted December 30, 2007 (edited) Read the words of the Apollo astronots , when interviewed for the film 'In the Shadow of the Moon '. Buzz Aldrin: I found the most uncomfortable, disturbing question coming back was "what'd it feel like?" To draw an analogy, we have voice recorders, we have video recorders, but so far we have not invented emotion recorders other than maybe a lie-detector test, and we don't do that kind of measurement. Emotions and feelings. What does this open up? Coming back, and then when asked a feeling, manufacturing what you think they want to hear instead of accurately trying to remember what your feelings really were. Edgar Mitchell: I agree with Buzz. One of the more disturbing questions we got repeatedly, "what'd it feel like to be on the moon?" and I realized very shortly I didn't know what it felt like 'cause I was too busy thinking and doing to concentrate on feeling. In order to do that, I went to one of my dear friends in the psychological community, Dr. Jean Huston, and said, "Hey, help me do some hypnotic regression. I get this question 'what'd it feel like?' and I wanna find out 'cause I don't know!" They speak like Manchurian Candidates . Edited December 30, 2007 by Duane Daman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Greer Posted December 31, 2007 Share Posted December 31, 2007 Read the words of the Apollo astronots , when interviewed for the film 'In the Shadow of the Moon '.Buzz Aldrin: I found the most uncomfortable, disturbing question coming back was "what'd it feel like?" To draw an analogy, we have voice recorders, we have video recorders, but so far we have not invented emotion recorders other than maybe a lie-detector test, and we don't do that kind of measurement. Emotions and feelings. What does this open up? Coming back, and then when asked a feeling, manufacturing what you think they want to hear instead of accurately trying to remember what your feelings really were. Edgar Mitchell: I agree with Buzz. One of the more disturbing questions we got repeatedly, "what'd it feel like to be on the moon?" and I realized very shortly I didn't know what it felt like 'cause I was too busy thinking and doing to concentrate on feeling. In order to do that, I went to one of my dear friends in the psychological community, Dr. Jean Huston, and said, "Hey, help me do some hypnotic regression. I get this question 'what'd it feel like?' and I wanna find out 'cause I don't know!" They speak like Manchurian Candidates . Or perhaps they speak like people who simply don't have the words to convey how they felt? "Oh, you know, it felt kind of... well, lunar." The closest I can come is trying to explain to someone in words what it's like to witness, say, Niagara. "Awesome! Spectacular! Wet! Amazing! The coolest thing I ever saw! You have to see it to believe it!" Do you really know what it's like to witness Niagara just because I coughed up a few superlatives? I doubt it, unless you've already been there. Now, multiply the difficulty in explaining what it's like to see Niagara by several factors of ten. How do you go about explaining what it's like on the moon? I don't really know, I've never been. Suppose a virgin asks you what the best lay you ever had was like. Do you think he's going to be impressed with a "totally awesome dude!" Will "Shagadelic, babe!" really convey the raw emotion of the experience? You could even try a Charlie Duke Apollo line: "What a ride! What a ride!" Will he have a clue what you're banging on about? That's my understanding of the difficulty of explaining what it's like to be on the moon to someone who's never been closer to it than 240,000 miles. You're welcome to your "they were hypnotised into thinking they went" hypothesis - I'll stick with mine! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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