One Giant Spotlight For All Mankind

[Duane Daman]

Come on Duane old bean! Do you really consider that as a proper rebuttal to photographic evidence? You'd be all over anyone who used that in relation to any of your or Jack's photographic claims.

Look a the stills. Do you honestly think the handle of that rake is wide enough to block out the light of a "superlight" which is proposed by HBs as being responsible for the apparently large reflection? If not, why does it appear to block it out in the bottom sill? Does this not prove, at the very least, that the light source has a much smaller angular size than suggested by the size of the reflection? Do you have a better explanation or interpretation?

I'm sure you're capable of addressing this point, since you've presented plenty of photographic evidence related to visors and light-sources on this thread and others. You're failure to touch this one will speak volumes!

Sorry Dave , but your own evidence in this montage has already proven that the Sun and also a spotlight ( in the case of the Apollo 14 visor reflection ) can appear to be many different sizes when reflected in astronaut's visors .

Which means that your current "evidence" of how small the "Sun " reflection looks is completely meaningless .

You gave your opinion that what some astronauts said was evidence that they had been brainwashed or hypnotised. Those comments were put into context by Evan with reference to what they said about going to the moon in various documentaries, biographies, interviews etc. Your standard reply when you have no comeback is to accuse people of tap dancing. Can you address the actual points raised and show where Evan was factually incorrect? At the moment all you have is your opinion as to why the astronauts said what they said about Apollo. Your opinion is that they were "Manchurian candidates". My opinion is that they'd been through an overwhelming experience (walking on the moon) and in some cases were suffering to varying degrees of an extreme version of "after the Lord Mayor's show". Why is my opinion less valid than yours? Or were you just doing your own little tap-dance?

The only tap dance I do here is a solo number, trying to keep up with you and your chorus line of Apollo defenders !

I read all of the article which Evan decided to quote here as well ... but what he quoted was not the point I was making and was posted in his predictable method of attempting to refute all possible evidence of Apollo being something other than what we were all led to believe .

The reason I cherry picked out certain quotes was to show that something is very strange in the fact that several of the Apollo astronauts can not remember what it felt like to be on the Moon .... and when asked that question become highly agitated , angry and upset .... Emotions which usually mean that something is very wrong with this picture .

I don't know much about Operation Paperclip either , but what I am finding out does not paint NASA in a very pretty light .

There are other programs also which NASA was involved in that are even worse than bringing Nazi war criminals to the US to work for the military industrial complex under the guise of NASA .

Here are the Apollo astronaut's quotes again .

" It was hard for some of Irwins astronaut colleagues to understand his transformation; they would joke " I don't know what happened to ol' Jim up there...."

A Man On The Moon - A.Chaikin P.558

"But then people say, 'No ... how did it feel? How did it really feel?'" He bristles. "For Christ's sake, I don't know. I just don't know. I have been frustrated since the day I left the moon by that question." - Buzz Aldrin

" became worried by his irritation with the question " What did it feel like to walk on the Moon?" Unlike most of his colleagues, he decided that the problem was not with the questioners, but with himself and the anquish he felt at being unable to recall the feeling of being there".

Moon Dust P 52,53

Something is very fishy here whether you choose to see this or not ..Their reactions when asked the question of how it felt to be on the Moon are just not normal .

Here is an article about another secret US government program that NASA had a part in called The Monarch Program .... This is some very disturbing evidence about MIND CONTROL and the making of MANCHURIAN CANDIDATES .

"Her father also had CIA and NASA connections. "The CIA work seems to be rather covert. He worked for Western Electric and later on for AT&T," Sullivan said. "I found out, since then, that Western Electric has had very strong CIA ties. I have been able to go through some of his papers since his death in 1990, and I have found on his desk calendar for that year that he had several contacts with NASA. Since then I have remembered that there were several facilities that he took me to that were NASA facilities. The NASA connections seem to be directly connected to the Paperclip connection. The Nazis were brought into the country and then were integrated into the NASA structure after the war."

Read the rest of article here .

http://www.nexusmagazine.com/articles/mindcontrolnwo.html

Edited January 5, 2008 by Duane Daman

[Evan Burton]

Let's put what you are quoting about Jim Irwin (Apollo 15) into context, shall we?

...This is how Jim Irwin spent the last two decades of his life, sharing his faith, testifying to the love of God that he discovered, he said, on the Moon...

...Back on earth, that awakening caused Irwin's life to change dramatically. Urged by his wife to heed this new spiritual call, supported by family friend and minister Bill Rittenhouse, Irwin left the astronaut corps and founded the High Flight ministry in 1972...

Duane's quote is then immediately followed by:

Irwin had expected that response, but for his own part, he had no doubts about why his life took the path that it did. "God had a plan for me, to leave the Earth and to share the adventure with others, so that they can be lifted up." Going to the moon, he said, "prepared me for a role of greater service."

(Chaikin, A MAN ON THE MOON, epilogue)

Sounds like the experience of a born-again Christian.

Edited January 5, 2008 by Evan Burton

[Gavin Stone]

So Duane, you agree; in the pictures/screengrabs that Dave provided, you agree that the lightsource as reflected in the visor is not a true representation of the light sources actual size?

[Duane Daman]

Sounds like the experience of a born-again Christian

Sound more like poetic license to me , or possibly a form of religious brainwashing .... He found "the love of God on the Moon" .

That being posted by a professed ATHIEST is almost too funny for words !

[Duane Daman]

So Duane, you agree; in the pictures/screengrabs that Dave provided, you agree that the lightsource as reflected in the visor is not a true representation of the light sources actual size?

... Ummm .... Let me think .... Right you are there Sherlock !

The Sun and a spotlight are both much bigger than their reflections in the visors .

[Evan Burton]

Sounds like the experience of a born-again Christian

Sound more like poetic license to me , or possibly a form of religious brainwashing .... He found "the love of God on the Moon" .

That being posted by a professed ATHIEST is almost too funny for words !

You don't have to be a theist to discuss theology. I just normally don't discuss such matters; they have their opinions, I have mine.

I wonder how Christians on this forum take your assessment of Jim Irwin's behaviour? You have said that he is either taking "poetic licence", or is brainwashed. Do you consider Christianity a cult that brainwashes people? Are you saying that Jim Irwin was being disingenuous, either deliberately or through brainwashing?

Edited January 6, 2008 by Evan Burton

[Evan Burton]

Duane,

Before you inadvertently offend any of the Christians who may read this thread, some more about Jim Irwin:

Irwin also became the first person to quote from the Bible while on the moon, Psalm 121:1: "I will lift up mine eyes unto the hills, from whence cometh my help."

.........

"I was a little reluctant to form another organization (to share the gospel), because I knew there were many in existence to do essentially the same thing. Many people gave me advice, like Dr. Billy Graham, said the message was basically the same, but a little different approach, and he suggested forming an organization."

"We formed High Flight," James Irwin explained. "I had a high flight, and we're interested in everyone having a higher flight in life—the ultimate flight when life ends."

......................

Astronauts Al Worden, William Pogue, and Charles Duke also spoke for High Flight to share the Christian message. They spoke at conventions, civic groups, schools, before various military groups, and at many other places in America.

......................

The former astronaut used a variety of means to share his faith and tell about traveling to the moon, besides public speaking. High Flight published a book, To Rule the Night, which contained the testimony of Colonel James Irwin, The Moon is not Enough, a book by Mary Irwin, wife of James Irwin, several tracts, and The Highest Flight, the New Testament with pictures of the Apollo 15 mission.

One of High Flight's ministries, Project Uplift, was designed to not only share the Christian faith, but also encourage young people who were unsure what career to pursue.

"It's a program of going into primarily high schools," Irwin explained. "Sometimes we do programs in universities, sometimes the junior high level, to encourage young people, motivate them, try to inspire them. I just share how God worked in my life in the flight to the moon."

.......................

He gave each group he spoke before an autographed picture of himself on the moon with an inscription: "Jesus Christ waking on the earth is more important than man walking on the moon"

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/4...graphy_and.html

I don't consider this to be someone who has been "brainwashed" or taking "poetic licence". Just because I do not agree with their views on faith does not mean I believe they are not genuine in their religious beliefs. Once again, this to me sounds like the experience of a born-again Christian.

Edited January 6, 2008 by Evan Burton

[Duane Daman]

Sounds like the experience of a born-again Christian

Sound more like poetic license to me , or possibly a form of religious brainwashing .... He found "the love of God on the Moon" .

That being posted by a professed ATHIEST is almost too funny for words !

You don't have to be a theist to discuss theology. I just normally don't discuss such matters; they have their opinions, I have mine.

I wonder how Christians on this forum take your assessment of Jim Irwin's behaviour? You have said that he is either taking "poetic licence", or is brainwashed. Do you consider Christianity a cult that brainwashes people? Are you saying that Jim Irwin was being disingenuous, either deliberately or through brainwashing?

You just can't resist trying to stir up more trouble for me on this forum can you Evan ?

When I did I ever imply that Christianity was "a cult that brainwashes people " ??? ... You couldn't be more off base if you tired ... I happen to be a practicing Methodist who writes Christian and spiritul music to sing at my church ... So if you want to continue with the unnecessary personal attacks , you better think of a different angle .

Astronauts Al Worden, William Pogue, and Charles Duke also spoke for High Flight to share the Christian message. They spoke at conventions, civic groups, schools, before various military groups, and at many other places in America.

By all accounts Charlie Duke only turned to God after becoming a violent drunk abuser of his wife and kids in the years after Apollo.

Edited January 6, 2008 by Duane Daman

[John Dolva]

This inexplicable awe that the Austronauts and Cosmonauts experienced in seeing the earth and humanitys place in the cosmos in a new light was/is not uncommon.

We do indeed all share one planet, one destiny, we are all one.

To explain this often radical shift in perspective must be hard for anyone, particularly when one sees that there are no borders drawn on the planet, yet has to return to one full of them.. There is no surprise in the many statements and actions by these few in trying to convey their experience to those who have not had it, which is just about everyone. Buzz deals with it in his way, others in theirs. How does one explain 'the inexplicable' to 'the inexperienced'? The ancient Greek story 'The Cave" comes to mind.

Shouts of heretic, leper, waft through the ages, yet Galileo whispered, after 'recanting', : '...yet it moves...'

Edited January 6, 2008 by John Dolva

[Duane Daman]

This inexplicable awe that the Austronauts and Cosmonauts experienced in seeing the earth and humanitys place in the cosmos in a new light was/is not uncommon.

We do indeed all share one planet, one destiny, we are all one.

To explain this often radical shift in perspective must be hard for anyone, particularly when one sees that there are no borders drawn on the planet, yet has to return to one full of them.. There is no surprise in the many statements and actions by these few in trying to convey their experience to those who have not had it, which is just about everyone. Buzz deals with it in his way, others in theirs. How does one explain 'the inexplicable' to 'the inexperienced'? The ancient Greek story 'The Cave" comes to mind.

Shouts of heretic, leper, waft through the ages, yet Galileo whispered, after 'recanting', : '...yet it moves...'

That's a very poetic , positive and rather romantic way to describe the Apollo debacle , but unfortunately quite unrealistic .

Edited January 6, 2008 by Duane Daman

[Duane Daman]

Getting back on topic then ....

DOES ANYONE HAVE AN EXAMPLE OF A COSMONAUT, OR ANY OTHER NON-APOLLO ASTRONAUT, WHO REQUIRED HYPNOTIC REGRESSION , LIKE ED MITCHELL DID ??? ... IS THERE ANYONE ELSE WHO COULDN'T REMEMBER WHAT THE EXPERIENCE WAS LIKE , OF SEEING THE EARTH, OR HUMANITYS PLACE IN THE COSMOS , OR WALKING ON THE MOON FOR THAT MATTER ?

[Evan Burton]

He didn't "require" it; he chose it to try to relive emotionally the experience, something he couldn't do at the time (every second counted).

As I have said before, I still see this as being in character with Dr Mitchell.

I'm still looking to see if there are similar experiences with other astronauts, but I haven't found any as yet. There are, however, plenty of people who have used or are using hypnotherapy / hypnotic regression to relive events.

How these men chose to deal with the experience of lunar exploration varies with the individual, and all you are saying is it is your opinion that they should not have done this. Opinion, not proof of any Apollo fakery.

[Evan Burton]

Sounds like the experience of a born-again Christian

Sound more like poetic license to me , or possibly a form of religious brainwashing .... He found "the love of God on the Moon" .

That being posted by a professed ATHIEST is almost too funny for words !

You don't have to be a theist to discuss theology. I just normally don't discuss such matters; they have their opinions, I have mine.

I wonder how Christians on this forum take your assessment of Jim Irwin's behaviour? You have said that he is either taking "poetic licence", or is brainwashed. Do you consider Christianity a cult that brainwashes people? Are you saying that Jim Irwin was being disingenuous, either deliberately or through brainwashing?

You just can't resist trying to stir up more trouble for me on this forum can you Evan ?

When I did I ever imply that Christianity was "a cult that brainwashes people " ??? ...

Where you said: "or possibly a form of religious brainwashing"; being that Jim Irwin professed to being a Christian, founded a Christian ministry, etc, and you said "or possibly a form of religious brainwashing", that to me sounds like you are saying he may have been brainwashed by the religion in question (Christianity; I don't know what particular faith he followed).

[Duane Daman]

Where you said: "or possibly a form of religious brainwashing"; being that Jim Irwin professed to being a Christian, founded a Christian ministry, etc, and you said "or possibly a form of religious brainwashing", that to me sounds like you are saying he may have been brainwashed by the religion in question (Christianity; I don't know what particular faith he followed).

Maybe I should have been more clear in what I meant .... I never meant to imply that Christians or the the Christian religion brainwashed Jim Irwin ... What I was implying is that NASA possibly did the brainwashing in the making of their Manchurian Candidates during The Monarch Program , or one of the other secret Nazi/NASA/government programs of brainwashing and mind control ... This has NOTHING TO DO WITH ANY FORM OF ORGANIZED CHRISTIAN RELIGION .

According to accounts I've read , Jim Irwin "heard the voice of God when he picked up the Genesis rock ".... Sorry , but to me that sounds either highly delusional , or possibly like something that he was programed to believe .

It may be only my opinion that the Apollo astronauts could have been part of one of NASA's mind control programs , because obviously I have no proof of this ... but what HAS been proven , is that the Apollo astronauts do NOT behave in any normal fasion when questioned about their alleged Moon trips .

Making contradictory statements about each other's Moon stories and running away and looking guilty when questioned by anyone who has major doubts about the authenticity of the Apollo Program , is NOT NORMAL BEHAVIOR FOR ANYONE WHO HAS REALLY BEEN TO THE MOON AND HAS ACCOMPLISHED WHAT NASA CLAIMS THEY HAVE .

Edited January 7, 2008 by Duane Daman

[Evan Burton]

Where you said: "or possibly a form of religious brainwashing"; being that Jim Irwin professed to being a Christian, founded a Christian ministry, etc, and you said "or possibly a form of religious brainwashing", that to me sounds like you are saying he may have been brainwashed by the religion in question (Christianity; I don't know what particular faith he followed).

Maybe I should have been more clear in what I meant .... I never meant to imply that Christians or the the Christian religion brainwashed Jim Irwin ... What I was implying is that NASA possibly did the brainwashing in the making of their Manchurian Candidates during The Monarch Program , or one of the other secret Nazi/NASA/government programs of brainwashing and mind control ... This has NOTHING TO DO WITH ANY FORM OF ORGANIZED CHRISTIAN RELIGION .

Okay; to me it sounded like you were saying the "brainwashing" was done by a religion. Thanks for clearing that up - although I still say you are wrong with your assessment.