Thomas H. Purvis Posted October 18, 2007 Author Share Posted October 18, 2007 Well, the "tag line" from the movie Michael Clayton makes a great summary for the government investigation of the assassination:The truth can be adjusted. Certainly it can and was. adjust; to make necessary or desirable changes; to cause to conform NOW! as soon as one resolves exactly why (to whose benefit) the simple facts were caused to conform to necessary or desirable changes, then they are one step closer to a resolution to the WC enigma. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antti Hynonen Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 Thomas H. Purvis Posted Yesterday, 01:37 PM Post #38 as he was trying to get the limo door to open. Some get so close to the answer, that they fail to see it! Tom, why do you find it necessary to reply in riddles. It would be much more meaningful to the members reading and replying to this thread if you were to explain your "facts" in the same style as you did in an earlier post on this thread. Thomas H. Purvis Posted Today, 11:47 AM P.S. JBC has lied on several occassions in regards to the facts of the events. Now! If, and when, one figures out the exact reasons for such lies, then one just may begin to understand why: "Politicians, not unlike Magicians, can make things disappear". Tom, why do you find it necessary to reply in riddles. It would be much more meaningful to the members reading and replying to this thread if you were to explain your "facts" in the same style as you did in an earlier post on this thread. Thomas H. Purvis Posted Today, 12:10 PM http://groups.google.com/group/alt.assassi...7a05?hl=en& 1. Even were one to have access to the absolutely original Zapruder film, the "blur/Jiggle" analysis is merely a substantive indicator. 2. The witness testimonies clearly establish that the first shot struck JFK and he was seen reacting to it. The US Secret Service as well as the FBI, established this reaction as being at some point from the Z204/206 point at which JFK begins to disappear behind the Stemmons sign, and that point at approximately Z212/214. 3. The witness testimonies clearly establish that the headshot at Z313 was the SECOND SHOT in the shooting sequence, as well as establishing the impact to the head of JFK, of which the Z-film clearly shows. 4. The witness testimonies clearly establish to approximate location of the Presidential Limo at the time of the third/last/final shot. And, this location was considerably farther down Elm St. from that point of the Z313 impact. 5. James Altgens clearly states of haveing observed the result of the impact to the head of JFK by the LAST shot fired. 6. Nellie Connally clearly states of having observed as well as felt the cerebral tissue of JFK being blown all over her and JBC from the LAST SHOT fired, which she also clearly states that JBC was down laying across the seats with his head in her lap at the time of this shot. Rest assured! There is nothing difficult in resolving exactly where each shot was fired, as well as exactly who these shots impacted upon. Thankfully, I was never under some misconception that even the worst shot in the USMC could not hit a slow moving target at ranges which did not exceed 98 yards. And, since LHO was a relatively good to excellent shot, I most assuredly never believed the WC's "THE SHOT THAT MISSED". Tom, Many witnesses also stated that the last two audible shots were fired in a rapid succession, almost on top of each other, like bang, bang. How have you incorporated this witness testimony in your conclusions? If 313 was the point of the second shot, then where is the video evidence of a third shot that sprays the occupants in the vehicle in the same style as observed in Zapruder 313? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas H. Purvis Posted October 18, 2007 Author Share Posted October 18, 2007 http://groups.google.com/group/alt.assassi...7a05?hl=en& http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/kellerma.htm Mr. KELLERMAN. Entry into this man's head was right below that wound, right here. Mr. SPECTER. Indicating the bottom of the hairline immediately to the right of the ear about the lower third of the ear? Mr. KELLERMAN. Right. But it was in the hairline, sir. Mr. SPECTER. In his hairline? Mr. KELLERMAN. Yes, sir. Mr. SPECTER. Near the end of his hairline? Mr. KELLERMAN. Yes, sir. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hopefully, one would not be so lacking in understanding of human anatomy that they would confuse a point which is at the lowere edge of the hairline, and immediately to the right of the lower third of the ear, with a point which is almost in the top center of the head (cowlick area). And rest assured, I am not making reference to Roy Kellerman! ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/arr...tml/Image03.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Now! It is hardly my fault if you can not resolve the pathological fact that the entrance wound through the SCALP of JFK, which the autopsy surgeons located, was BELOW the EOP, and that the actual entrance wound through the skull of JFK was ABOVE the EOP. Most decent anatomy books will thoroughly explain the difference between SCALP and SKULL, as they represent completely separate parts of the human anatomy. "Dr. Petty- Then this is the entrance wound. The one down by the margin of the hair in the back." "Dr. Humes- Yes, sir." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Now! If one will take the time and effort to go back and review the medical information, they will find that the shot to the head, which the autopsy surgeons all saw, (to include Roy Kellerman), entered the rear of the head through the scalp at a point which was at the lower edge of the hairline at the base of the skull. Thereafter, the bullet traversed through the soft flesh at the base of the neck (upwards when the head is held erect), to penetrate the skull 2.5cm right and slightly above the EOP. In addition to this oblique angle of entry, the bullet left a completely tell-tale "oblique/acute" angle of penetration through the skull of JFK in what would be an upwards direction (were the head in a vertical position at the time of impact). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- There exists a bullet penetration through the skull of JFK in the vicinity of the "Cowlick", as is readily determinable by review of the available anterior/posterior X-ray. Penetration through the scalp for this entry point is also readily determinable from the autopsy photographs, and is also located in the cowlick area of the skull. The HSCA determined that this bullet penetration location WAS NOT where the three autopsy surgeons reported having observed the entrance into the skull which they observed, and the entrance wound throught the skull, according to the HSCA Medical Panel, did not match in measurements, those measurements which the three autopsy surgeons measured for the entrance wound which they located. Some 10cm/4-inches below the HSCA determined entrance wound (the cowlick entry), the three autopsy surgeons (as well as others present) observed the bullet entrance through the scalp at the rear of JFK's head. This entrance location was at the edge of the hairline, and approximately even with the lower one-third of the ear lobe. The bullet pathway thereafter passed through the soft tissuej of the neck (on what would be an upward position, were the head held erect), and thereafter struck the skull 2.5cm and slightly above the EOP, and in so doing created an extremely acute angle of penetration through the skull. The EOP entry being some 4-inches lower than the Cowlick entry, as well as having completely different measurements for the angle of penetration through the skull. ________________________________________________________________________________ ___________________ Time to bring in the Kindergarden students, who for the most part, can easily figure this one out! ________________________________________________________________________________ ____________________ The "Cowlick" entry was caused by that impact of the SECOND SHOT FIRED, as is clearly observed in the Zapruder film at approximately (purported) frame# Z313. The "EOP" entry was caused by the impact of the THIRD/LAST/FINAL SHOT FIRED, which was that impact in which the Presidential Limo was down in front of James Altgens position, and which impact James Altgens observed to the head of JFK, and which impact also blew cerebral tissue forward, all over Nellie Connally & JBC. And, which impact occured only afyter JBC was fully down in the seats with his head in Nellie Connally's lap, thus exposing his right shoulder to the bullet after it had passed through the head of JFK. Lastly! Politicians, not unlike Magicians, can make things disappear! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antti Hynonen Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 (edited) Thomas H. Purvis Posted Yesterday, 01:15 PM http://groups.google.com/group/alt.assassi...7a05?hl=en& http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/kellerma.htm Mr. KELLERMAN. Entry into this man's head was right below that wound, right here. Mr. SPECTER. Indicating the bottom of the hairline immediately to the right of the ear about the lower third of the ear? Mr. KELLERMAN. Right. But it was in the hairline, sir. Mr. SPECTER. In his hairline? Mr. KELLERMAN. Yes, sir. Mr. SPECTER. Near the end of his hairline? Mr. KELLERMAN. Yes, sir. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hopefully, one would not be so lacking in understanding of human anatomy that they would confuse a point which is at the lowere edge of the hairline, and immediately to the right of the lower third of the ear, with a point which is almost in the top center of the head (cowlick area). And rest assured, I am not making reference to Roy Kellerman! ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/arr...tml/Image03.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Now! It is hardly my fault if you can not resolve the pathological fact that the entrance wound through the SCALP of JFK, which the autopsy surgeons located, was BELOW the EOP, and that the actual entrance wound through the skull of JFK was ABOVE the EOP. Most decent anatomy books will thoroughly explain the difference between SCALP and SKULL, as they represent completely separate parts of the human anatomy. "Dr. Petty- Then this is the entrance wound. The one down by the margin of the hair in the back." "Dr. Humes- Yes, sir." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Now! If one will take the time and effort to go back and review the medical information, they will find that the shot to the head, which the autopsy surgeons all saw, (to include Roy Kellerman), entered the rear of the head through the scalp at a point which was at the lower edge of the hairline at the base of the skull. Thereafter, the bullet traversed through the soft flesh at the base of the neck (upwards when the head is held erect), to penetrate the skull 2.5cm right and slightly above the EOP. In addition to this oblique angle of entry, the bullet left a completely tell-tale "oblique/acute" angle of penetration through the skull of JFK in what would be an upwards direction (were the head in a vertical position at the time of impact). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- There exists a bullet penetration through the skull of JFK in the vicinity of the "Cowlick", as is readily determinable by review of the available anterior/posterior X-ray. Penetration through the scalp for this entry point is also readily determinable from the autopsy photographs, and is also located in the cowlick area of the skull. The HSCA determined that this bullet penetration location WAS NOT where the three autopsy surgeons reported having observed the entrance into the skull which they observed, and the entrance wound throught the skull, according to the HSCA Medical Panel, did not match in measurements, those measurements which the three autopsy surgeons measured for the entrance wound which they located. Some 10cm/4-inches below the HSCA determined entrance wound (the cowlick entry), the three autopsy surgeons (as well as others present) observed the bullet entrance through the scalp at the rear of JFK's head. This entrance location was at the edge of the hairline, and approximately even with the lower one-third of the ear lobe. The bullet pathway thereafter passed through the soft tissuej of the neck (on what would be an upward position, were the head held erect), and thereafter struck the skull 2.5cm and slightly above the EOP, and in so doing created an extremely acute angle of penetration through the skull. The EOP entry being some 4-inches lower than the Cowlick entry, as well as having completely different measurements for the angle of penetration through the skull. ________________________________________________________________________________ ___________________ Time to bring in the Kindergarden students, who for the most part, can easily figure this one out! ________________________________________________________________________________ ____________________ The "Cowlick" entry was caused by that impact of the SECOND SHOT FIRED, as is clearly observed in the Zapruder film at approximately (purported) frame# Z313. The "EOP" entry was caused by the impact of the THIRD/LAST/FINAL SHOT FIRED, which was that impact in which the Presidential Limo was down in front of James Altgens position, and which impact James Altgens observed to the head of JFK, and which impact also blew cerebral tissue forward, all over Nellie Connally & JBC. And, which impact occured only afyter JBC was fully down in the seats with his head in Nellie Connally's lap, thus exposing his right shoulder to the bullet after it had passed through the head of JFK. Lastly! Politicians, not unlike Magicians, can make things disappear! Tom, You are making more sense here! Thanks. Now! If one will take the time and effort to go back and review the medical information, they will find that the shot to the head, which the autopsy surgeons all saw, (to include Roy Kellerman), entered the rear of the head through the scalp at a point which was at the lower edge of the hairline at the base of the skull. Thereafter, the bullet traversed through the soft flesh at the base of the neck (upwards when the head is held erect), to penetrate the skull 2.5cm right and slightly above the EOP. In addition to this oblique angle of entry, the bullet left a completely tell-tale "oblique/acute" angle of penetration through the skull of JFK in what would be an upwards direction (were the head in a vertical position at the time of impact). Tom, you say that the head was in a vertical position, and about this shot, that "entered the rear of the head through the scalp at a point which was at the lower edge of the hairline at the base of the skull. Thereafter, the bullet traversed through the soft flesh at the base of the neck (upwards when the head is held erect), to penetrate the skull 2.5cm right and slightly above the EOP." This is interesting. How have you analysed the path of the bullet, considering that the head is in a "vertical" position, meaning upright? At the same time you say that "the bullet traversed through the soft flesh at the base of the neck (upwards when the head is held erect), to penetrate the skull 2.5cm right and slightly above the EOP." This would mean that a bullet fired from the 6th floor TSBD, travelling in a downward angle, would hit the scalp at the hairline, traverse the soft tissue of the neck, but would then for some reason, change it's path and exit the skull at an upward angle. I do find this analysis quite puzzling in your explanation. What changed the bullet's path? The "EOP" entry was caused by the impact of the THIRD/LAST/FINAL SHOT FIRED, which was that impact in which the Presidential Limo was down in front of James Altgens position, and which impact James Altgens observed to the head of JFK, and which impact also blew cerebral tissue forward, all over Nellie Connally & JBC. I do find your take here to be quite sound. A few follow-up questions, since you say there were two shots to the head, and the second shot to the head (the final shot) occurred at James Altgens position, what film, or photo would have captured this event? Can you give an approximate Zapruder film frame or other? I do disagree with your claim that John Connally was not already wounded in his back and chest when his wife had pulled him down. Can you show supporting evidence for your claim? I would refer to their testimonies and the Zapruder film, which both indicate to me, that John Connally was already seriously wounded at the time that his wife pulled him down, and out of the line of fire. Thanks. Edited October 19, 2007 by Antti Hynonen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Gratz Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 Tom, you wrote: NOW! as soon as one resolves exactly why (to whose benefit) the simple facts were caused to conform to necessary or desirable changes, then they are one step closer to a resolution to the WC enigma. First, if you do not mind a grammatical correction, your final clause should say "he or she" since it relates back to the "one" in the first clause of the sentence. Regarding the substance of your comment, I have my ideas why the truth had to be adjusted but I am sure the members who have read your interesting posts on the ballistics would like to have you explicate your theories and/or opinions. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas H. Purvis Posted October 19, 2007 Author Share Posted October 19, 2007 Tom, you wrote:NOW! as soon as one resolves exactly why (to whose benefit) the simple facts were caused to conform to necessary or desirable changes, then they are one step closer to a resolution to the WC enigma. First, if you do not mind a grammatical correction, your final clause should say "he or she" since it relates back to the "one" in the first clause of the sentence. Regarding the substance of your comment, I have my ideas why the truth had to be adjusted but I am sure the members who have read your interesting posts on the ballistics would like to have you explicate your theories and/or opinions. Thanks! Think: "Our Boy"! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Gratz Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 Tom, I think I understand what you are trying to do but man I might take your statement "Our boy" to mean that LHO had been working for the US government so that truth had to be adjusted. But I cannot read your mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas H. Purvis Posted October 19, 2007 Author Share Posted October 19, 2007 Thomas H. Purvis Posted Yesterday, 01:15 PM http://groups.google.com/group/alt.assassi...7a05?hl=en& http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/kellerma.htm Mr. KELLERMAN. Entry into this man's head was right below that wound, right here. Mr. SPECTER. Indicating the bottom of the hairline immediately to the right of the ear about the lower third of the ear? Mr. KELLERMAN. Right. But it was in the hairline, sir. Mr. SPECTER. In his hairline? Mr. KELLERMAN. Yes, sir. Mr. SPECTER. Near the end of his hairline? Mr. KELLERMAN. Yes, sir. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hopefully, one would not be so lacking in understanding of human anatomy that they would confuse a point which is at the lowere edge of the hairline, and immediately to the right of the lower third of the ear, with a point which is almost in the top center of the head (cowlick area). And rest assured, I am not making reference to Roy Kellerman! ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/arr...tml/Image03.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Now! It is hardly my fault if you can not resolve the pathological fact that the entrance wound through the SCALP of JFK, which the autopsy surgeons located, was BELOW the EOP, and that the actual entrance wound through the skull of JFK was ABOVE the EOP. Most decent anatomy books will thoroughly explain the difference between SCALP and SKULL, as they represent completely separate parts of the human anatomy. "Dr. Petty- Then this is the entrance wound. The one down by the margin of the hair in the back." "Dr. Humes- Yes, sir." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Now! If one will take the time and effort to go back and review the medical information, they will find that the shot to the head, which the autopsy surgeons all saw, (to include Roy Kellerman), entered the rear of the head through the scalp at a point which was at the lower edge of the hairline at the base of the skull. Thereafter, the bullet traversed through the soft flesh at the base of the neck (upwards when the head is held erect), to penetrate the skull 2.5cm right and slightly above the EOP. In addition to this oblique angle of entry, the bullet left a completely tell-tale "oblique/acute" angle of penetration through the skull of JFK in what would be an upwards direction (were the head in a vertical position at the time of impact). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- There exists a bullet penetration through the skull of JFK in the vicinity of the "Cowlick", as is readily determinable by review of the available anterior/posterior X-ray. Penetration through the scalp for this entry point is also readily determinable from the autopsy photographs, and is also located in the cowlick area of the skull. The HSCA determined that this bullet penetration location WAS NOT where the three autopsy surgeons reported having observed the entrance into the skull which they observed, and the entrance wound throught the skull, according to the HSCA Medical Panel, did not match in measurements, those measurements which the three autopsy surgeons measured for the entrance wound which they located. Some 10cm/4-inches below the HSCA determined entrance wound (the cowlick entry), the three autopsy surgeons (as well as others present) observed the bullet entrance through the scalp at the rear of JFK's head. This entrance location was at the edge of the hairline, and approximately even with the lower one-third of the ear lobe. The bullet pathway thereafter passed through the soft tissuej of the neck (on what would be an upward position, were the head held erect), and thereafter struck the skull 2.5cm and slightly above the EOP, and in so doing created an extremely acute angle of penetration through the skull. The EOP entry being some 4-inches lower than the Cowlick entry, as well as having completely different measurements for the angle of penetration through the skull. ________________________________________________________________________________ ___________________ Time to bring in the Kindergarden students, who for the most part, can easily figure this one out! ________________________________________________________________________________ ____________________ The "Cowlick" entry was caused by that impact of the SECOND SHOT FIRED, as is clearly observed in the Zapruder film at approximately (purported) frame# Z313. The "EOP" entry was caused by the impact of the THIRD/LAST/FINAL SHOT FIRED, which was that impact in which the Presidential Limo was down in front of James Altgens position, and which impact James Altgens observed to the head of JFK, and which impact also blew cerebral tissue forward, all over Nellie Connally & JBC. And, which impact occured only afyter JBC was fully down in the seats with his head in Nellie Connally's lap, thus exposing his right shoulder to the bullet after it had passed through the head of JFK. Lastly! Politicians, not unlike Magicians, can make things disappear! Tom, You are making more sense here! Thanks. Now! If one will take the time and effort to go back and review the medical information, they will find that the shot to the head, which the autopsy surgeons all saw, (to include Roy Kellerman), entered the rear of the head through the scalp at a point which was at the lower edge of the hairline at the base of the skull. Thereafter, the bullet traversed through the soft flesh at the base of the neck (upwards when the head is held erect), to penetrate the skull 2.5cm right and slightly above the EOP. In addition to this oblique angle of entry, the bullet left a completely tell-tale "oblique/acute" angle of penetration through the skull of JFK in what would be an upwards direction (were the head in a vertical position at the time of impact). Tom, you say that the head was in a vertical position, and about this shot, that "entered the rear of the head through the scalp at a point which was at the lower edge of the hairline at the base of the skull. Thereafter, the bullet traversed through the soft flesh at the base of the neck (upwards when the head is held erect), to penetrate the skull 2.5cm right and slightly above the EOP." This is interesting. How have you analysed the path of the bullet, considering that the head is in a "vertical" position, meaning upright? At the same time you say that "the bullet traversed through the soft flesh at the base of the neck (upwards when the head is held erect), to penetrate the skull 2.5cm right and slightly above the EOP." This would mean that a bullet fired from the 6th floor TSBD, travelling in a downward angle, would hit the scalp at the hairline, traverse the soft tissue of the neck, but would then for some reason, change it's path and exit the skull at an upward angle. I do find this analysis quite puzzling in your explanation. What changed the bullet's path? The "EOP" entry was caused by the impact of the THIRD/LAST/FINAL SHOT FIRED, which was that impact in which the Presidential Limo was down in front of James Altgens position, and which impact James Altgens observed to the head of JFK, and which impact also blew cerebral tissue forward, all over Nellie Connally & JBC. I do find your take here to be quite sound. A few follow-up questions, since you say there were two shots to the head, and the second shot to the head (the final shot) occurred at James Altgens position, what film, or photo would have captured this event? Can you give an approximate Zapruder film frame or other? I do disagree with your claim that John Connally was not already wounded in his back and chest when his wife had pulled him down. Can you show supporting evidence for your claim? I would refer to their testimonies and the Zapruder film, which both indicate to me, that John Connally was already seriously wounded at the time that his wife pulled him down, and out of the line of fire. Thanks. Antti (& any others); I am currently in argument with one of the so-called greats of the medical evidence on another talk show, and since this has more or less been my home for the longest time, then it would be supposed that it should be explained here. 1. Many think there is confusion on the part of Dr. Humes/Boswell/Finck in locating the entrance wound into the back of the head of JFK. (Above the EOP/Below the EOP) Actually, not unlike most of the other evidence, the confusion lies in those who are not listening to what is stated. The entry point through the SCALP was at the lower edge of the hairline at the back of the neck/base of the skull of JFK, and was BELOW the level of the EOP. The bullet tunnelled through the soft tissue at the base of the neck, to strike the skull ABOVE the EOP. NOW! Were JFK sitting in an erect position (as he is at Z313) and such a bullet impact struck on a downward firing angle of approximately 15-degrees downward, then it would be physically impossible for that bullet to have immediately, upon impact, to have turned upwards on an angle which would have taken it through the soft tissue at the base of the skull, to ultimately impact with the skull in the EOP vicinity. So! 1. The actual first point of impact was actually the coat of JFK at the junction of where the collar turns down. Due to the acute/oblique position of the coat/collar at the point of impact, the bullet traversed through the fabric on an angle, and although it penetrated the coat as well as the liner, the two holes are not exactly/directly in alignment when the cloth is flattened out. 2. The bullet then struck the base of the skull of JFK at the lowere edge of the hairline. 3. Due to the position in which JFK was in at the time of impact, leaning/bent/well forward with his head down and his face slightly turned, the back of his neck and head were exposed in a horizontal/horizontal-downward position. 4. This position is how the striking bullet managed to strike at the base of the hairline below the level of the EOP, traverse through the soft flesh of the neck, and then ultimately strike the skull in the vicinity of the EOP. 5. This is also the WHY? that the entrance wound through the skull of JFK had an abnormally extended length, as the bullet struck the skull on the same actute/oblique angle as it penetrated throught the coat and the sof tissues at the base of the skull. Dr. Boswell, in his autopsy sheet drawing merely drew in the direction of the bullet based on the vertical position in which the drawing was made. When one takes the actual pathway of the bullet: Base of skull below EOP at edge of hairline-----to/through soft tissue of neck------------to elongated skull impact slightly above EOP------------------to impact with tip/upper edge of occipital lobe of brain--------------- Then one must either accept that either a midget was hiding in the trunk of the Presidential Limo and fired on an upward position, or else, JFK's head was not in the vertical posiltion at the time of impact of this bullet. I do find your take here to be quite sound. A few follow-up questions, since you say there were two shots to the head, and the second shot to the head (the final shot) occurred at James Altgens position, what film, or photo would have captured this event? Can you give an approximate Zapruder film frame or other? Not unlike other things in the Zapruder film that one will not see, they will not see the impact of this, the final shot. However, one may want to take a close look at: http://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z341.jpg (as well as those frames on each side of Z341) As well as questioning exactly why the "Sprocket Holes" have the same demonstrated problem as those once missing frames of the film in the Z210 range. http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/altgens.htm Mr. ALTGENS - This would put me at approximately this area here, which would be about 15 feet from me at the time he was shot in the head--about 15 feet from the car on the west side of the car--on the side that Mrs. Kennedy was riding in the car. Mr. ALTGENS - I know that it would be right at 15 feet, because I had prefocused in that area, and I had my camera almost to my eye when it happened and that's as far as I got with my camera. Because, you see, even up to that time I didn't know that the President had been shot previously. I still thought up until that time that all I heard was fireworks and that they were giving some sort of celebration to the President by popping these fireworks. It stunned me so at what I saw that I failed to do my duty and make the picture that I was hoping to make. Mr. ALTGENS - Yes. What made me almost certain that the shot came from behind was because at the time I was looking at the President, just as he was struck There was flesh particles that flew out of the side of his head in my direction from where I was standing, And, as Mr. Paul Harvey once stated: "Now, you know the rest of the story". At least as to why Jackie determined it prudent to vacate the Limosine! Can you show supporting evidence for your claim? I would refer to their testimonies and the Zapruder film, which both indicate to me, that John Connally was already seriously wounded at the time that his wife pulled him down, and out of the line of fire. JBC suffered a broken wrist from impact of a bullet fragment from the Z313 headshot at the time that he went over into Nellie's side of the car with his head in her lap. Nellie did not "pull him down", she merely grabbed JBC when he went into her direction and held onto him after he went over into her direction and began slumping down into the seat. Mrs. CONNALLY. No, he turned away from me. I was pretending that I was him. I never again looked in the back seat of the car after my husband was shot. My concern was for him, and I remember that he turned to the right and then just slumped down into the seat, so that I reached over to pull him toward me. X was trying to get him down and me down. The jump seats were not very roomy, so that there were reports that he slid into the seat of the car, which he did not; that he fell over into my lap, which he did not. I just pulled him over into my arms And then he just recoiled and just sort of slumped in his seat. I thought he was dead. When you see a big man totally defenseless like that, then you do whatever you think you can do to help most and the only thing I could think of to do was to pull him down out of the line of fire, or whatever was happening to us and I thought if I could get him down, maybe they wouldn't hurt him anymore. So, I pulled him down in my lap. We learned later--I read a lot of stories that upset me later because they said we slipped down into the floor, that John slid off, fell over into my lap. Those little jump seats were not very big and there was no way that he could have slid to the floor, there is no way either of us could have got to the floor. The only thing I could do was pull him down and by leaning over him, I hoped if anything else happened, they wouldn't hurt him anymore. I never looked back after John was hit. I heard Mrs. Kennedy say, "they have shot my husband." and out of the line of fire.[/b] NOPE! When JBC went over/down across the seats with his head in Nellie's lap, he exposed his back and right shoulder to the bullet which exited the head of JFK (aka the third/last/final shot). When this bullet exited: Mrs. CONNALLY- The third shot that I heard I felt, it felt like spent buckshot falling all over us, and then, of course, I too could see that it was the matter, brain tissue, or whatever, just human matter, all over the car and both of us. MR. Altgens - There was flesh particles that flew out of the side of his head in my direction from where I was standing, Thus, JBC in fact went over/was partially pulled down, directly into the line of fire for the bullet as it traversed through the mid-brain of JFK, exited the skull in the frontal lobe, and thereafter struck JBC in the shoulder which was exposed across the open area between the jump seats where JBC & Nellie were located. And, as Mr. Paul Harvey stated: "And, now you know the rest of the story". as regards the WHY that JBC's coat had to be laundered prior to being examined. http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/frazr2.htm Mr. FRAZIER - It is different in that the President's clothing had not been cleaned. It had only been dried. The blood was dried. However, the Governor's garments had been cleaned and pressed. Sitting upright in the jump seat at Z313, it was physically impossible for cerebral tissue from the head of JFK to have splattered all over the back side of the coat worn by JBC. However, when leaning across the open area between the jump seats with his back and shoulder exposed, at the time of the third/last/final shot impact, which also blew cerebral tissue forward in the limosine, the entire backside of JBC's coat would have been covered with blood/cerebral tissue. One would have thought that some of these "Blood Splatter" experts would have taken the time to have figured this one out also. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas H. Purvis Posted October 19, 2007 Author Share Posted October 19, 2007 http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspir...72396e30f0a6dcc http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/kellerma.htm Mr. KELLERMAN. Entry into this man's head was right below that wound, right here. Mr. SPECTER. Indicating the bottom of the hairline immediately to the right of the ear about the lower third of the ear? Mr. KELLERMAN. Right. But it was in the hairline, sir. Mr. SPECTER. In his hairline? Mr. KELLERMAN. Yes, sir. Mr. SPECTER. Near the end of his hairline? Mr. KELLERMAN. Yes, sir. Mr. SPECTER. What was the size of that aperture? Mr. KELLERMAN. The little finger. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/arr...tml/Image03.htm Dr. Petty- Then this is the entrance wound. The one down by the margin of the hair in the back? Dr. Humes- Yes, sir. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- P.S. It also helps if one has spoken with Dr. Boswell on the subject of the actual entrance into the scalp. And, the autopsy surgeons have argued this point many times. http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/humes.htm Commander HUMES - Yes, sir. This exhibit is a grey suit coat stated to have been worn by the President on the day of his death. Situated to the right of the midline high in the back portion of the coat is a defect, one margin of which is semicircular. Situated above it just below the collar is an additional defect. It is our opinion that the lower of these defects corresponds essentially with the point of entrance of the missile at Point C on Exhibit 385. Mr. SPECTER - How about the upper one of the collar you have described, does that go all the way through? Commander HUMES - Yes, sir; it goes all the way through. It is not--wait a minute, excuse me it is not so clearly a puncture wound as the one below. Mr. SPECTER - Does the upper one go all the way through in the same course? Commander HUMES - No. Mr. SPECTER - Through the inner side as it went through the outer side? Commander HUMES - No, in an irregular fashion. Commander HUMES - That is approximately correct, sir. This defect, I might say, continues on through the material. Attached to this garment is the memorandum which states that one half of the area around the hole which was presented had been removed by experts, I believe, at the Federal Bureau of Investigation, and also that a control area was taken from under the collar, so it is my interpretation that this defect at the top of this garment is the control area taken by the Bureau, and that the reason the lower defect is not more circle or oval in outline is because a portion of that defect has been removed apparently for physical examinations. NOPE! Better come up with more than some "note from Mom"/aka memorandum! The top/edge of collar hole is the bullet penetration for the third/last/final shot, which after having gone through the coat on an actute/oblique angle, thereafter struck JFK in the edge of the hairline at the base of the skull. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Mauro Posted October 21, 2007 Share Posted October 21, 2007 Thomas H. Purvis Posted Yesterday, 01:15 PM http://groups.google.com/group/alt.assassi...7a05?hl=en& http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/kellerma.htm Mr. KELLERMAN. Entry into this man's head was right below that wound, right here. Mr. SPECTER. Indicating the bottom of the hairline immediately to the right of the ear about the lower third of the ear? Mr. KELLERMAN. Right. But it was in the hairline, sir. Mr. SPECTER. In his hairline? Mr. KELLERMAN. Yes, sir. Mr. SPECTER. Near the end of his hairline? Mr. KELLERMAN. Yes, sir. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hopefully, one would not be so lacking in understanding of human anatomy that they would confuse a point which is at the lowere edge of the hairline, and immediately to the right of the lower third of the ear, with a point which is almost in the top center of the head (cowlick area). And rest assured, I am not making reference to Roy Kellerman! ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/arr...tml/Image03.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Now! It is hardly my fault if you can not resolve the pathological fact that the entrance wound through the SCALP of JFK, which the autopsy surgeons located, was BELOW the EOP, and that the actual entrance wound through the skull of JFK was ABOVE the EOP. Most decent anatomy books will thoroughly explain the difference between SCALP and SKULL, as they represent completely separate parts of the human anatomy. "Dr. Petty- Then this is the entrance wound. The one down by the margin of the hair in the back." "Dr. Humes- Yes, sir." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Now! If one will take the time and effort to go back and review the medical information, they will find that the shot to the head, which the autopsy surgeons all saw, (to include Roy Kellerman), entered the rear of the head through the scalp at a point which was at the lower edge of the hairline at the base of the skull. Thereafter, the bullet traversed through the soft flesh at the base of the neck (upwards when the head is held erect), to penetrate the skull 2.5cm right and slightly above the EOP. In addition to this oblique angle of entry, the bullet left a completely tell-tale "oblique/acute" angle of penetration through the skull of JFK in what would be an upwards direction (were the head in a vertical position at the time of impact). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- There exists a bullet penetration through the skull of JFK in the vicinity of the "Cowlick", as is readily determinable by review of the available anterior/posterior X-ray. Penetration through the scalp for this entry point is also readily determinable from the autopsy photographs, and is also located in the cowlick area of the skull. The HSCA determined that this bullet penetration location WAS NOT where the three autopsy surgeons reported having observed the entrance into the skull which they observed, and the entrance wound throught the skull, according to the HSCA Medical Panel, did not match in measurements, those measurements which the three autopsy surgeons measured for the entrance wound which they located. Some 10cm/4-inches below the HSCA determined entrance wound (the cowlick entry), the three autopsy surgeons (as well as others present) observed the bullet entrance through the scalp at the rear of JFK's head. This entrance location was at the edge of the hairline, and approximately even with the lower one-third of the ear lobe. The bullet pathway thereafter passed through the soft tissuej of the neck (on what would be an upward position, were the head held erect), and thereafter struck the skull 2.5cm and slightly above the EOP, and in so doing created an extremely acute angle of penetration through the skull. The EOP entry being some 4-inches lower than the Cowlick entry, as well as having completely different measurements for the angle of penetration through the skull. ________________________________________________________________________________ ___________________ Time to bring in the Kindergarden students, who for the most part, can easily figure this one out! ________________________________________________________________________________ ____________________ The "Cowlick" entry was caused by that impact of the SECOND SHOT FIRED, as is clearly observed in the Zapruder film at approximately (purported) frame# Z313. The "EOP" entry was caused by the impact of the THIRD/LAST/FINAL SHOT FIRED, which was that impact in which the Presidential Limo was down in front of James Altgens position, and which impact James Altgens observed to the head of JFK, and which impact also blew cerebral tissue forward, all over Nellie Connally & JBC. And, which impact occured only afyter JBC was fully down in the seats with his head in Nellie Connally's lap, thus exposing his right shoulder to the bullet after it had passed through the head of JFK. Lastly! Politicians, not unlike Magicians, can make things disappear! Tom, You are making more sense here! Thanks. Now! If one will take the time and effort to go back and review the medical information, they will find that the shot to the head, which the autopsy surgeons all saw, (to include Roy Kellerman), entered the rear of the head through the scalp at a point which was at the lower edge of the hairline at the base of the skull. Thereafter, the bullet traversed through the soft flesh at the base of the neck (upwards when the head is held erect), to penetrate the skull 2.5cm right and slightly above the EOP. In addition to this oblique angle of entry, the bullet left a completely tell-tale "oblique/acute" angle of penetration through the skull of JFK in what would be an upwards direction (were the head in a vertical position at the time of impact). Tom, you say that the head was in a vertical position, and about this shot, that "entered the rear of the head through the scalp at a point which was at the lower edge of the hairline at the base of the skull. Thereafter, the bullet traversed through the soft flesh at the base of the neck (upwards when the head is held erect), to penetrate the skull 2.5cm right and slightly above the EOP." This is interesting. How have you analysed the path of the bullet, considering that the head is in a "vertical" position, meaning upright? At the same time you say that "the bullet traversed through the soft flesh at the base of the neck (upwards when the head is held erect), to penetrate the skull 2.5cm right and slightly above the EOP." This would mean that a bullet fired from the 6th floor TSBD, travelling in a downward angle, would hit the scalp at the hairline, traverse the soft tissue of the neck, but would then for some reason, change it's path and exit the skull at an upward angle. I do find this analysis quite puzzling in your explanation. What changed the bullet's path? The "EOP" entry was caused by the impact of the THIRD/LAST/FINAL SHOT FIRED, which was that impact in which the Presidential Limo was down in front of James Altgens position, and which impact James Altgens observed to the head of JFK, and which impact also blew cerebral tissue forward, all over Nellie Connally & JBC. I do find your take here to be quite sound. A few follow-up questions, since you say there were two shots to the head, and the second shot to the head (the final shot) occurred at James Altgens position, what film, or photo would have captured this event? Can you give an approximate Zapruder film frame or other? I do disagree with your claim that John Connally was not already wounded in his back and chest when his wife had pulled him down. Can you show supporting evidence for your claim? I would refer to their testimonies and the Zapruder film, which both indicate to me, that John Connally was already seriously wounded at the time that his wife pulled him down, and out of the line of fire. Thanks. Antti (& any others); I am currently in argument with one of the so-called greats of the medical evidence on another talk show, and since this has more or less been my home for the longest time, then it would be supposed that it should be explained here. 1. Many think there is confusion on the part of Dr. Humes/Boswell/Finck in locating the entrance wound into the back of the head of JFK. (Above the EOP/Below the EOP) Actually, not unlike most of the other evidence, the confusion lies in those who are not listening to what is stated. The entry point through the SCALP was at the lower edge of the hairline at the back of the neck/base of the skull of JFK, and was BELOW the level of the EOP. The bullet tunnelled through the soft tissue at the base of the neck, to strike the skull ABOVE the EOP. NOW! Were JFK sitting in an erect position (as he is at Z313) and such a bullet impact struck on a downward firing angle of approximately 15-degrees downward, then it would be physically impossible for that bullet to have immediately, upon impact, to have turned upwards on an angle which would have taken it through the soft tissue at the base of the skull, to ultimately impact with the skull in the EOP vicinity. So! 1. The actual first point of impact was actually the coat of JFK at the junction of where the collar turns down. Due to the acute/oblique position of the coat/collar at the point of impact, the bullet traversed through the fabric on an angle, and although it penetrated the coat as well as the liner, the two holes are not exactly/directly in alignment when the cloth is flattened out. 2. The bullet then struck the base of the skull of JFK at the lowere edge of the hairline. 3. Due to the position in which JFK was in at the time of impact, leaning/bent/well forward with his head down and his face slightly turned, the back of his neck and head were exposed in a horizontal/horizontal-downward position. 4. This position is how the striking bullet managed to strike at the base of the hairline below the level of the EOP, traverse through the soft flesh of the neck, and then ultimately strike the skull in the vicinity of the EOP. 5. This is also the WHY? that the entrance wound through the skull of JFK had an abnormally extended length, as the bullet struck the skull on the same actute/oblique angle as it penetrated throught the coat and the sof tissues at the base of the skull. Dr. Boswell, in his autopsy sheet drawing merely drew in the direction of the bullet based on the vertical position in which the drawing was made. When one takes the actual pathway of the bullet: Base of skull below EOP at edge of hairline-----to/through soft tissue of neck------------to elongated skull impact slightly above EOP------------------to impact with tip/upper edge of occipital lobe of brain--------------- Then one must either accept that either a midget was hiding in the trunk of the Presidential Limo and fired on an upward position, or else, JFK's head was not in the vertical posiltion at the time of impact of this bullet. I do find your take here to be quite sound. A few follow-up questions, since you say there were two shots to the head, and the second shot to the head (the final shot) occurred at James Altgens position, what film, or photo would have captured this event? Can you give an approximate Zapruder film frame or other? Not unlike other things in the Zapruder film that one will not see, they will not see the impact of this, the final shot. However, one may want to take a close look at: http://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z341.jpg (as well as those frames on each side of Z341) As well as questioning exactly why the "Sprocket Holes" have the same demonstrated problem as those once missing frames of the film in the Z210 range. http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/altgens.htm Mr. ALTGENS - This would put me at approximately this area here, which would be about 15 feet from me at the time he was shot in the head--about 15 feet from the car on the west side of the car--on the side that Mrs. Kennedy was riding in the car. Mr. ALTGENS - I know that it would be right at 15 feet, because I had prefocused in that area, and I had my camera almost to my eye when it happened and that's as far as I got with my camera. Because, you see, even up to that time I didn't know that the President had been shot previously. I still thought up until that time that all I heard was fireworks and that they were giving some sort of celebration to the President by popping these fireworks. It stunned me so at what I saw that I failed to do my duty and make the picture that I was hoping to make. Mr. ALTGENS - Yes. What made me almost certain that the shot came from behind was because at the time I was looking at the President, just as he was struck There was flesh particles that flew out of the side of his head in my direction from where I was standing, And, as Mr. Paul Harvey once stated: "Now, you know the rest of the story". At least as to why Jackie determined it prudent to vacate the Limosine! Can you show supporting evidence for your claim? I would refer to their testimonies and the Zapruder film, which both indicate to me, that John Connally was already seriously wounded at the time that his wife pulled him down, and out of the line of fire. JBC suffered a broken wrist from impact of a bullet fragment from the Z313 headshot at the time that he went over into Nellie's side of the car with his head in her lap. Nellie did not "pull him down", she merely grabbed JBC when he went into her direction and held onto him after he went over into her direction and began slumping down into the seat. Mrs. CONNALLY. No, he turned away from me. I was pretending that I was him. I never again looked in the back seat of the car after my husband was shot. My concern was for him, and I remember that he turned to the right and then just slumped down into the seat, so that I reached over to pull him toward me. X was trying to get him down and me down. The jump seats were not very roomy, so that there were reports that he slid into the seat of the car, which he did not; that he fell over into my lap, which he did not. I just pulled him over into my arms And then he just recoiled and just sort of slumped in his seat. I thought he was dead. When you see a big man totally defenseless like that, then you do whatever you think you can do to help most and the only thing I could think of to do was to pull him down out of the line of fire, or whatever was happening to us and I thought if I could get him down, maybe they wouldn't hurt him anymore. So, I pulled him down in my lap. We learned later--I read a lot of stories that upset me later because they said we slipped down into the floor, that John slid off, fell over into my lap. Those little jump seats were not very big and there was no way that he could have slid to the floor, there is no way either of us could have got to the floor. The only thing I could do was pull him down and by leaning over him, I hoped if anything else happened, they wouldn't hurt him anymore. I never looked back after John was hit. I heard Mrs. Kennedy say, "they have shot my husband." and out of the line of fire.[/b] NOPE! When JBC went over/down across the seats with his head in Nellie's lap, he exposed his back and right shoulder to the bullet which exited the head of JFK (aka the third/last/final shot). When this bullet exited: Mrs. CONNALLY- The third shot that I heard I felt, it felt like spent buckshot falling all over us, and then, of course, I too could see that it was the matter, brain tissue, or whatever, just human matter, all over the car and both of us. MR. Altgens - There was flesh particles that flew out of the side of his head in my direction from where I was standing, Thus, JBC in fact went over/was partially pulled down, directly into the line of fire for the bullet as it traversed through the mid-brain of JFK, exited the skull in the frontal lobe, and thereafter struck JBC in the shoulder which was exposed across the open area between the jump seats where JBC & Nellie were located. And, as Mr. Paul Harvey stated: "And, now you know the rest of the story". as regards the WHY that JBC's coat had to be laundered prior to being examined. http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/frazr2.htm Mr. FRAZIER - It is different in that the President's clothing had not been cleaned. It had only been dried. The blood was dried. However, the Governor's garments had been cleaned and pressed. Sitting upright in the jump seat at Z313, it was physically impossible for cerebral tissue from the head of JFK to have splattered all over the back side of the coat worn by JBC. However, when leaning across the open area between the jump seats with his back and shoulder exposed, at the time of the third/last/final shot impact, which also blew cerebral tissue forward in the limosine, the entire backside of JBC's coat would have been covered with blood/cerebral tissue. One would have thought that some of these "Blood Splatter" experts would have taken the time to have figured this one out also. Tom ************************************************************* "The bullet tunneled through the soft tissue at the base of the neck, to strike the skull ABOVE the EOP." I don't know, and maybe this sounds stupid, but are you saying that the bullet tunneled through the soft tissue at the base of the neck to strike the inside of the skull above the EOP? Therefore, that was where it exited and ended up looking like it exploded along the right side of his skull? I'm confused, or maybe I should just shut up and leave and let you guys duke it out? Can somebody provide some graphics on this? Please? I'd be most appreciative. Ter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas H. Purvis Posted October 21, 2007 Author Share Posted October 21, 2007 Thomas H. Purvis Posted Yesterday, 01:15 PM http://groups.google.com/group/alt.assassi...7a05?hl=en& http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/kellerma.htm Mr. KELLERMAN. Entry into this man's head was right below that wound, right here. Mr. SPECTER. Indicating the bottom of the hairline immediately to the right of the ear about the lower third of the ear? Mr. KELLERMAN. Right. But it was in the hairline, sir. Mr. SPECTER. In his hairline? Mr. KELLERMAN. Yes, sir. Mr. SPECTER. Near the end of his hairline? Mr. KELLERMAN. Yes, sir. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hopefully, one would not be so lacking in understanding of human anatomy that they would confuse a point which is at the lowere edge of the hairline, and immediately to the right of the lower third of the ear, with a point which is almost in the top center of the head (cowlick area). And rest assured, I am not making reference to Roy Kellerman! ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/arr...tml/Image03.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Now! It is hardly my fault if you can not resolve the pathological fact that the entrance wound through the SCALP of JFK, which the autopsy surgeons located, was BELOW the EOP, and that the actual entrance wound through the skull of JFK was ABOVE the EOP. Most decent anatomy books will thoroughly explain the difference between SCALP and SKULL, as they represent completely separate parts of the human anatomy. "Dr. Petty- Then this is the entrance wound. The one down by the margin of the hair in the back." "Dr. Humes- Yes, sir." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Now! If one will take the time and effort to go back and review the medical information, they will find that the shot to the head, which the autopsy surgeons all saw, (to include Roy Kellerman), entered the rear of the head through the scalp at a point which was at the lower edge of the hairline at the base of the skull. Thereafter, the bullet traversed through the soft flesh at the base of the neck (upwards when the head is held erect), to penetrate the skull 2.5cm right and slightly above the EOP. In addition to this oblique angle of entry, the bullet left a completely tell-tale "oblique/acute" angle of penetration through the skull of JFK in what would be an upwards direction (were the head in a vertical position at the time of impact). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- There exists a bullet penetration through the skull of JFK in the vicinity of the "Cowlick", as is readily determinable by review of the available anterior/posterior X-ray. Penetration through the scalp for this entry point is also readily determinable from the autopsy photographs, and is also located in the cowlick area of the skull. The HSCA determined that this bullet penetration location WAS NOT where the three autopsy surgeons reported having observed the entrance into the skull which they observed, and the entrance wound throught the skull, according to the HSCA Medical Panel, did not match in measurements, those measurements which the three autopsy surgeons measured for the entrance wound which they located. Some 10cm/4-inches below the HSCA determined entrance wound (the cowlick entry), the three autopsy surgeons (as well as others present) observed the bullet entrance through the scalp at the rear of JFK's head. This entrance location was at the edge of the hairline, and approximately even with the lower one-third of the ear lobe. The bullet pathway thereafter passed through the soft tissuej of the neck (on what would be an upward position, were the head held erect), and thereafter struck the skull 2.5cm and slightly above the EOP, and in so doing created an extremely acute angle of penetration through the skull. The EOP entry being some 4-inches lower than the Cowlick entry, as well as having completely different measurements for the angle of penetration through the skull. ________________________________________________________________________________ ___________________ Time to bring in the Kindergarden students, who for the most part, can easily figure this one out! ________________________________________________________________________________ ____________________ The "Cowlick" entry was caused by that impact of the SECOND SHOT FIRED, as is clearly observed in the Zapruder film at approximately (purported) frame# Z313. The "EOP" entry was caused by the impact of the THIRD/LAST/FINAL SHOT FIRED, which was that impact in which the Presidential Limo was down in front of James Altgens position, and which impact James Altgens observed to the head of JFK, and which impact also blew cerebral tissue forward, all over Nellie Connally & JBC. And, which impact occured only afyter JBC was fully down in the seats with his head in Nellie Connally's lap, thus exposing his right shoulder to the bullet after it had passed through the head of JFK. Lastly! Politicians, not unlike Magicians, can make things disappear! Tom, You are making more sense here! Thanks. Now! If one will take the time and effort to go back and review the medical information, they will find that the shot to the head, which the autopsy surgeons all saw, (to include Roy Kellerman), entered the rear of the head through the scalp at a point which was at the lower edge of the hairline at the base of the skull. Thereafter, the bullet traversed through the soft flesh at the base of the neck (upwards when the head is held erect), to penetrate the skull 2.5cm right and slightly above the EOP. In addition to this oblique angle of entry, the bullet left a completely tell-tale "oblique/acute" angle of penetration through the skull of JFK in what would be an upwards direction (were the head in a vertical position at the time of impact). Tom, you say that the head was in a vertical position, and about this shot, that "entered the rear of the head through the scalp at a point which was at the lower edge of the hairline at the base of the skull. Thereafter, the bullet traversed through the soft flesh at the base of the neck (upwards when the head is held erect), to penetrate the skull 2.5cm right and slightly above the EOP." This is interesting. How have you analysed the path of the bullet, considering that the head is in a "vertical" position, meaning upright? At the same time you say that "the bullet traversed through the soft flesh at the base of the neck (upwards when the head is held erect), to penetrate the skull 2.5cm right and slightly above the EOP." This would mean that a bullet fired from the 6th floor TSBD, travelling in a downward angle, would hit the scalp at the hairline, traverse the soft tissue of the neck, but would then for some reason, change it's path and exit the skull at an upward angle. I do find this analysis quite puzzling in your explanation. What changed the bullet's path? The "EOP" entry was caused by the impact of the THIRD/LAST/FINAL SHOT FIRED, which was that impact in which the Presidential Limo was down in front of James Altgens position, and which impact James Altgens observed to the head of JFK, and which impact also blew cerebral tissue forward, all over Nellie Connally & JBC. I do find your take here to be quite sound. A few follow-up questions, since you say there were two shots to the head, and the second shot to the head (the final shot) occurred at James Altgens position, what film, or photo would have captured this event? Can you give an approximate Zapruder film frame or other? I do disagree with your claim that John Connally was not already wounded in his back and chest when his wife had pulled him down. Can you show supporting evidence for your claim? I would refer to their testimonies and the Zapruder film, which both indicate to me, that John Connally was already seriously wounded at the time that his wife pulled him down, and out of the line of fire. Thanks. Antti (& any others); I am currently in argument with one of the so-called greats of the medical evidence on another talk show, and since this has more or less been my home for the longest time, then it would be supposed that it should be explained here. 1. Many think there is confusion on the part of Dr. Humes/Boswell/Finck in locating the entrance wound into the back of the head of JFK. (Above the EOP/Below the EOP) Actually, not unlike most of the other evidence, the confusion lies in those who are not listening to what is stated. The entry point through the SCALP was at the lower edge of the hairline at the back of the neck/base of the skull of JFK, and was BELOW the level of the EOP. The bullet tunnelled through the soft tissue at the base of the neck, to strike the skull ABOVE the EOP. NOW! Were JFK sitting in an erect position (as he is at Z313) and such a bullet impact struck on a downward firing angle of approximately 15-degrees downward, then it would be physically impossible for that bullet to have immediately, upon impact, to have turned upwards on an angle which would have taken it through the soft tissue at the base of the skull, to ultimately impact with the skull in the EOP vicinity. So! 1. The actual first point of impact was actually the coat of JFK at the junction of where the collar turns down. Due to the acute/oblique position of the coat/collar at the point of impact, the bullet traversed through the fabric on an angle, and although it penetrated the coat as well as the liner, the two holes are not exactly/directly in alignment when the cloth is flattened out. 2. The bullet then struck the base of the skull of JFK at the lowere edge of the hairline. 3. Due to the position in which JFK was in at the time of impact, leaning/bent/well forward with his head down and his face slightly turned, the back of his neck and head were exposed in a horizontal/horizontal-downward position. 4. This position is how the striking bullet managed to strike at the base of the hairline below the level of the EOP, traverse through the soft flesh of the neck, and then ultimately strike the skull in the vicinity of the EOP. 5. This is also the WHY? that the entrance wound through the skull of JFK had an abnormally extended length, as the bullet struck the skull on the same actute/oblique angle as it penetrated throught the coat and the sof tissues at the base of the skull. Dr. Boswell, in his autopsy sheet drawing merely drew in the direction of the bullet based on the vertical position in which the drawing was made. When one takes the actual pathway of the bullet: Base of skull below EOP at edge of hairline-----to/through soft tissue of neck------------to elongated skull impact slightly above EOP------------------to impact with tip/upper edge of occipital lobe of brain--------------- Then one must either accept that either a midget was hiding in the trunk of the Presidential Limo and fired on an upward position, or else, JFK's head was not in the vertical posiltion at the time of impact of this bullet. I do find your take here to be quite sound. A few follow-up questions, since you say there were two shots to the head, and the second shot to the head (the final shot) occurred at James Altgens position, what film, or photo would have captured this event? Can you give an approximate Zapruder film frame or other? Not unlike other things in the Zapruder film that one will not see, they will not see the impact of this, the final shot. However, one may want to take a close look at: http://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z341.jpg (as well as those frames on each side of Z341) As well as questioning exactly why the "Sprocket Holes" have the same demonstrated problem as those once missing frames of the film in the Z210 range. http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/altgens.htm Mr. ALTGENS - This would put me at approximately this area here, which would be about 15 feet from me at the time he was shot in the head--about 15 feet from the car on the west side of the car--on the side that Mrs. Kennedy was riding in the car. Mr. ALTGENS - I know that it would be right at 15 feet, because I had prefocused in that area, and I had my camera almost to my eye when it happened and that's as far as I got with my camera. Because, you see, even up to that time I didn't know that the President had been shot previously. I still thought up until that time that all I heard was fireworks and that they were giving some sort of celebration to the President by popping these fireworks. It stunned me so at what I saw that I failed to do my duty and make the picture that I was hoping to make. Mr. ALTGENS - Yes. What made me almost certain that the shot came from behind was because at the time I was looking at the President, just as he was struck There was flesh particles that flew out of the side of his head in my direction from where I was standing, And, as Mr. Paul Harvey once stated: "Now, you know the rest of the story". At least as to why Jackie determined it prudent to vacate the Limosine! Can you show supporting evidence for your claim? I would refer to their testimonies and the Zapruder film, which both indicate to me, that John Connally was already seriously wounded at the time that his wife pulled him down, and out of the line of fire. JBC suffered a broken wrist from impact of a bullet fragment from the Z313 headshot at the time that he went over into Nellie's side of the car with his head in her lap. Nellie did not "pull him down", she merely grabbed JBC when he went into her direction and held onto him after he went over into her direction and began slumping down into the seat. Mrs. CONNALLY. No, he turned away from me. I was pretending that I was him. I never again looked in the back seat of the car after my husband was shot. My concern was for him, and I remember that he turned to the right and then just slumped down into the seat, so that I reached over to pull him toward me. X was trying to get him down and me down. The jump seats were not very roomy, so that there were reports that he slid into the seat of the car, which he did not; that he fell over into my lap, which he did not. I just pulled him over into my arms And then he just recoiled and just sort of slumped in his seat. I thought he was dead. When you see a big man totally defenseless like that, then you do whatever you think you can do to help most and the only thing I could think of to do was to pull him down out of the line of fire, or whatever was happening to us and I thought if I could get him down, maybe they wouldn't hurt him anymore. So, I pulled him down in my lap. We learned later--I read a lot of stories that upset me later because they said we slipped down into the floor, that John slid off, fell over into my lap. Those little jump seats were not very big and there was no way that he could have slid to the floor, there is no way either of us could have got to the floor. The only thing I could do was pull him down and by leaning over him, I hoped if anything else happened, they wouldn't hurt him anymore. I never looked back after John was hit. I heard Mrs. Kennedy say, "they have shot my husband." and out of the line of fire.[/b] NOPE! When JBC went over/down across the seats with his head in Nellie's lap, he exposed his back and right shoulder to the bullet which exited the head of JFK (aka the third/last/final shot). When this bullet exited: Mrs. CONNALLY- The third shot that I heard I felt, it felt like spent buckshot falling all over us, and then, of course, I too could see that it was the matter, brain tissue, or whatever, just human matter, all over the car and both of us. MR. Altgens - There was flesh particles that flew out of the side of his head in my direction from where I was standing, Thus, JBC in fact went over/was partially pulled down, directly into the line of fire for the bullet as it traversed through the mid-brain of JFK, exited the skull in the frontal lobe, and thereafter struck JBC in the shoulder which was exposed across the open area between the jump seats where JBC & Nellie were located. And, as Mr. Paul Harvey stated: "And, now you know the rest of the story". as regards the WHY that JBC's coat had to be laundered prior to being examined. http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/frazr2.htm Mr. FRAZIER - It is different in that the President's clothing had not been cleaned. It had only been dried. The blood was dried. However, the Governor's garments had been cleaned and pressed. Sitting upright in the jump seat at Z313, it was physically impossible for cerebral tissue from the head of JFK to have splattered all over the back side of the coat worn by JBC. However, when leaning across the open area between the jump seats with his back and shoulder exposed, at the time of the third/last/final shot impact, which also blew cerebral tissue forward in the limosine, the entire backside of JBC's coat would have been covered with blood/cerebral tissue. One would have thought that some of these "Blood Splatter" experts would have taken the time to have figured this one out also. Tom ************************************************************* "The bullet tunneled through the soft tissue at the base of the neck, to strike the skull ABOVE the EOP." I don't know, and maybe this sounds stupid, but are you saying that the bullet tunneled through the soft tissue at the base of the neck to strike the inside of the skull above the EOP? Therefore, that was where it exited and ended up looking like it exploded along the right side of his skull? I'm confused, or maybe I should just shut up and leave and let you guys duke it out? Can somebody provide some graphics on this? Please? I'd be most appreciative. Ter Terry; Many who have made an attempt to study the medical evidence have become highly confused, so, don't worry about not getting it yet. I have yet to find that box with most of the third shot materials (including drawings like I usually provide). Nevertheless: Investigators and researchers alike have gotten confused over "entry into the head" and "entry into the skull". Dr. Humes, as well as the other, have indicated that entry into the head was BELOW the EOP. Which is correct, as the initial entry point was at the edge of the hairline. However, entry into the skull was 2.5 cm right and slightly ABOVE the EOP. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inion http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Gray1193.svg The EOP is well above the lower edge of the hairline. Thus, to get from an INITIAL entry point which is at the lower edge of the hairline, up, to the EOP of the skull, the bullet must pass through that soft fleshy area which is at the base of the skull and is Try this also: http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/arrb/index74.htm Many who are far more qualified than either of us, have been confused by the bullet hole which tends to move around some 10cm/4-inches on JFK's skull. Let me know if there is anything else in which I can add to the confusion. Tom P.S. If you think that confused them, think on this one: Commander HUMES - Scientifically, sir, it is impossible for it to have been fired from other than behind. Or to have exited from other than behind. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Failure to understand the evidenc has no bearing on the validity of that evidence. Generally speaking, it merely means that one just does not understand the evidence. http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/humes.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas H. Purvis Posted October 21, 2007 Author Share Posted October 21, 2007 http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspir...72396e30f0a6dcchttp://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/kellerma.htm Mr. KELLERMAN. Entry into this man's head was right below that wound, right here. Mr. SPECTER. Indicating the bottom of the hairline immediately to the right of the ear about the lower third of the ear? Mr. KELLERMAN. Right. But it was in the hairline, sir. Mr. SPECTER. In his hairline? Mr. KELLERMAN. Yes, sir. Mr. SPECTER. Near the end of his hairline? Mr. KELLERMAN. Yes, sir. Mr. SPECTER. What was the size of that aperture? Mr. KELLERMAN. The little finger. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/arr...tml/Image03.htm Dr. Petty- Then this is the entrance wound. The one down by the margin of the hair in the back? Dr. Humes- Yes, sir. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- P.S. It also helps if one has spoken with Dr. Boswell on the subject of the actual entrance into the scalp. And, the autopsy surgeons have argued this point many times. http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/humes.htm Commander HUMES - Yes, sir. This exhibit is a grey suit coat stated to have been worn by the President on the day of his death. Situated to the right of the midline high in the back portion of the coat is a defect, one margin of which is semicircular. Situated above it just below the collar is an additional defect. It is our opinion that the lower of these defects corresponds essentially with the point of entrance of the missile at Point C on Exhibit 385. Mr. SPECTER - How about the upper one of the collar you have described, does that go all the way through? Commander HUMES - Yes, sir; it goes all the way through. It is not--wait a minute, excuse me it is not so clearly a puncture wound as the one below. Mr. SPECTER - Does the upper one go all the way through in the same course? Commander HUMES - No. Mr. SPECTER - Through the inner side as it went through the outer side? Commander HUMES - No, in an irregular fashion. Commander HUMES - That is approximately correct, sir. This defect, I might say, continues on through the material. Attached to this garment is the memorandum which states that one half of the area around the hole which was presented had been removed by experts, I believe, at the Federal Bureau of Investigation, and also that a control area was taken from under the collar, so it is my interpretation that this defect at the top of this garment is the control area taken by the Bureau, and that the reason the lower defect is not more circle or oval in outline is because a portion of that defect has been removed apparently for physical examinations. NOPE! Better come up with more than some "note from Mom"/aka memorandum! The top/edge of collar hole is the bullet penetration for the third/last/final shot, which after having gone through the coat on an actute/oblique angle, thereafter struck JFK in the edge of the hairline at the base of the skull. For Mr. Von Pein who apparantly likes to visit here (hidden) and thereafter run to other forums and make comments in regards to factual information of which he actually knows nothing. The "EOP" entry was caused by the impact of the THIRD/LAST/FINAL SHOT > FIRED, which was that impact in which the Presidential Limo was down > in front of James Altgens position, and which impact James Altgens > observed to the head of JFK, and which impact also blew cerebral > tissue forward, all over Nellie Connally & JBC. And, for Mr. Von Pein: This, the third/last/final shot, is the bullet which went through the coat of JFK at the edge of the collar, on the same acute/oblique angle at which the bullet struck JFK. After having passed through the coat, the bullet struck JFK at the edge of the hairline of the neck, and thereafter passed through the soft tissue of the neck to ultimately strike the skull 2.5cm right and slightly above the EOP. Did you truly believe that it was a mere coincidence that there was an oblique penetration through the coat and liner of JFK's coat, which was in direct alignment with the edge of the hairline entry point into JFK's head which was caused by a bullet. Or, not unlike many others, did you merely not read the WC testimonies and bother to take the time to follow up on the evidence? ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Commander HUMES - Yes, sir. This exhibit is a grey suit coat stated to have been worn by the President on the day of his death. Situated to the right of the midline high in the back portion of the coat is a defect, one margin of which is semicircular. Situated above it just below the collar is an additional defect. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mr. Von Pein! You most assuredly are not that "sharp" if you let Specter & Company pull this one over on you! "THE SHOT THAT MISSED"---------------did not miss! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antti Hynonen Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 Thomas H. Purvis Posted Oct 19 2007, 01:20 PM Antti (& any others); I am currently in argument with one of the so-called greats of the medical evidence on another talk show, and since this has more or less been my home for the longest time, then it would be supposed that it should be explained here. 1. Many think there is confusion on the part of Dr. Humes/Boswell/Finck in locating the entrance wound into the back of the head of JFK. (Above the EOP/Below the EOP) Actually, not unlike most of the other evidence, the confusion lies in those who are not listening to what is stated. The entry point through the SCALP was at the lower edge of the hairline at the back of the neck/base of the skull of JFK, and was BELOW the level of the EOP. The bullet tunnelled through the soft tissue at the base of the neck, to strike the skull ABOVE the EOP. NOW! Were JFK sitting in an erect position (as he is at Z313) and such a bullet impact struck on a downward firing angle of approximately 15-degrees downward, then it would be physically impossible for that bullet to have immediately, upon impact, to have turned upwards on an angle which would have taken it through the soft tissue at the base of the skull, to ultimately impact with the skull in the EOP vicinity. So! 1. The actual first point of impact was actually the coat of JFK at the junction of where the collar turns down. Due to the acute/oblique position of the coat/collar at the point of impact, the bullet traversed through the fabric on an angle, and although it penetrated the coat as well as the liner, the two holes are not exactly/directly in alignment when the cloth is flattened out. 2. The bullet then struck the base of the skull of JFK at the lowere edge of the hairline. 3. Due to the position in which JFK was in at the time of impact, leaning/bent/well forward with his head down and his face slightly turned, the back of his neck and head were exposed in a horizontal/horizontal-downward position. 4. This position is how the striking bullet managed to strike at the base of the hairline below the level of the EOP, traverse through the soft flesh of the neck, and then ultimately strike the skull in the vicinity of the EOP. 5. This is also the WHY? that the entrance wound through the skull of JFK had an abnormally extended length, as the bullet struck the skull on the same actute/oblique angle as it penetrated throught the coat and the sof tissues at the base of the skull. Dr. Boswell, in his autopsy sheet drawing merely drew in the direction of the bullet based on the vertical position in which the drawing was made. When one takes the actual pathway of the bullet: Base of skull below EOP at edge of hairline-----to/through soft tissue of neck------------to elongated skull impact slightly above EOP------------------to impact with tip/upper edge of occipital lobe of brain--------------- Then one must either accept that either a midget was hiding in the trunk of the Presidential Limo and fired on an upward position, or else, JFK's head was not in the vertical posiltion at the time of impact of this bullet. I do find your take here to be quite sound. A few follow-up questions, since you say there were two shots to the head, and the second shot to the head (the final shot) occurred at James Altgens position, what film, or photo would have captured this event? Can you give an approximate Zapruder film frame or other? Not unlike other things in the Zapruder film that one will not see, they will not see the impact of this, the final shot. However, one may want to take a close look at: http://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z341.jpg (as well as those frames on each side of Z341) As well as questioning exactly why the "Sprocket Holes" have the same demonstrated problem as those once missing frames of the film in the Z210 range. http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/altgens.htm Mr. ALTGENS - This would put me at approximately this area here, which would be about 15 feet from me at the time he was shot in the head--about 15 feet from the car on the west side of the car--on the side that Mrs. Kennedy was riding in the car. Mr. ALTGENS - I know that it would be right at 15 feet, because I had prefocused in that area, and I had my camera almost to my eye when it happened and that's as far as I got with my camera. Because, you see, even up to that time I didn't know that the President had been shot previously. I still thought up until that time that all I heard was fireworks and that they were giving some sort of celebration to the President by popping these fireworks. It stunned me so at what I saw that I failed to do my duty and make the picture that I was hoping to make. Mr. ALTGENS - Yes. What made me almost certain that the shot came from behind was because at the time I was looking at the President, just as he was struck There was flesh particles that flew out of the side of his head in my direction from where I was standing, And, as Mr. Paul Harvey once stated: "Now, you know the rest of the story". At least as to why Jackie determined it prudent to vacate the Limosine! Can you show supporting evidence for your claim? I would refer to their testimonies and the Zapruder film, which both indicate to me, that John Connally was already seriously wounded at the time that his wife pulled him down, and out of the line of fire. JBC suffered a broken wrist from impact of a bullet fragment from the Z313 headshot at the time that he went over into Nellie's side of the car with his head in her lap. Nellie did not "pull him down", she merely grabbed JBC when he went into her direction and held onto him after he went over into her direction and began slumping down into the seat. Mrs. CONNALLY. No, he turned away from me. I was pretending that I was him. I never again looked in the back seat of the car after my husband was shot. My concern was for him, and I remember that he turned to the right and then just slumped down into the seat, so that I reached over to pull him toward me. X was trying to get him down and me down. The jump seats were not very roomy, so that there were reports that he slid into the seat of the car, which he did not; that he fell over into my lap, which he did not. I just pulled him over into my arms And then he just recoiled and just sort of slumped in his seat. I thought he was dead. When you see a big man totally defenseless like that, then you do whatever you think you can do to help most and the only thing I could think of to do was to pull him down out of the line of fire, or whatever was happening to us and I thought if I could get him down, maybe they wouldn't hurt him anymore. So, I pulled him down in my lap. We learned later--I read a lot of stories that upset me later because they said we slipped down into the floor, that John slid off, fell over into my lap. Those little jump seats were not very big and there was no way that he could have slid to the floor, there is no way either of us could have got to the floor. The only thing I could do was pull him down and by leaning over him, I hoped if anything else happened, they wouldn't hurt him anymore. I never looked back after John was hit. I heard Mrs. Kennedy say, "they have shot my husband." and out of the line of fire.[/b] NOPE! When JBC went over/down across the seats with his head in Nellie's lap, he exposed his back and right shoulder to the bullet which exited the head of JFK (aka the third/last/final shot). When this bullet exited: Mrs. CONNALLY- The third shot that I heard I felt, it felt like spent buckshot falling all over us, and then, of course, I too could see that it was the matter, brain tissue, or whatever, just human matter, all over the car and both of us. MR. Altgens - There was flesh particles that flew out of the side of his head in my direction from where I was standing, Thus, JBC in fact went over/was partially pulled down, directly into the line of fire for the bullet as it traversed through the mid-brain of JFK, exited the skull in the frontal lobe, and thereafter struck JBC in the shoulder which was exposed across the open area between the jump seats where JBC & Nellie were located. And, as Mr. Paul Harvey stated: "And, now you know the rest of the story". as regards the WHY that JBC's coat had to be laundered prior to being examined. http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/frazr2.htm Mr. FRAZIER - It is different in that the President's clothing had not been cleaned. It had only been dried. The blood was dried. However, the Governor's garments had been cleaned and pressed. Sitting upright in the jump seat at Z313, it was physically impossible for cerebral tissue from the head of JFK to have splattered all over the back side of the coat worn by JBC. However, when leaning across the open area between the jump seats with his back and shoulder exposed, at the time of the third/last/final shot impact, which also blew cerebral tissue forward in the limosine, the entire backside of JBC's coat would have been covered with blood/cerebral tissue. One would have thought that some of these "Blood Splatter" experts would have taken the time to have figured this one out also. Tom Tom, Sorry for my delayed reply. Thanks for your further explanation. I'm still having trouble understanding this scenario. I can understand that you say that the third shot to the head occurred at the Altgens position and that this bullet also struck JBC. However, I have diffficulties in visualizing this bullets path. You say that: 1. The actual first point of impact was actually the coat of JFK at the junction of where the collar turns down.Due to the acute/oblique position of the coat/collar at the point of impact, the bullet traversed through the fabric on an angle, and although it penetrated the coat as well as the liner, the two holes are not exactly/directly in alignment when the cloth is flattened out. 2. The bullet then struck the base of the skull of JFK at the lowere edge of the hairline. 3. Due to the position in which JFK was in at the time of impact, leaning/bent/well forward with his head down and his face slightly turned, the back of his neck and head were exposed in a horizontal/horizontal-downward position. 4. This position is how the striking bullet managed to strike at the base of the hairline below the level of the EOP, traverse through the soft flesh of the neck, and then ultimately strike the skull in the vicinity of the EOP. 5. This is also the WHY? that the entrance wound through the skull of JFK had an abnormally extended length, as the bullet struck the skull on the same actute/oblique angle as it penetrated throught the coat and the sof tissues at the base of the skull. Dr. Boswell, in his autopsy sheet drawing merely drew in the direction of the bullet based on the vertical position in which the drawing was made. When one takes the actual pathway of the bullet: Base of skull below EOP at edge of hairline-----to/through soft tissue of neck------------to elongated skull impact slightly above EOP------------------to impact with tip/upper edge of occipital lobe of brain--------------- Then one must either accept that either a midget was hiding in the trunk of the Presidential Limo and fired on an upward position, or else, JFK's head was not in the vertical posiltion at the time of impact of this bullet. From this I can recap the following: 3rd bullet strike: JFK's head is relatively horizontal (you stated vertical in a prior post?), he is struck in the neck near the collar of his coat, this bullet travels through the soft tissues of the neck to enter the skull at the EOP... I can not visualize this happening, as it seems quite unrealistic to me. Not that most things in this case don't seem that way, but this is just, well, how should I say it, unbelievable to me. To back up a bit, the underlying assumption is that also this bullet is fired from the TSBD SW6 floor window. It is therefore traveling in a downward angle of say 10 degrees (just to make it simple). However, the victim (JFK) is still sitting semi-upright, with his head tilted forward (I'd say less than perfectly horizontal, as opposed to completely horizontal) and to the side. Problem: although we agree that JFK's neck is exposed due to this position, his head is only midway between being horizontal from vertical. Not completely horizontal and definitely not beyond horizontal. Therefore I claim that JFK's head is in a slight upward angle, say 10 degrees up from a perfect horizontal tilt. (tilted forward, towards being horizontal, but not horizontal). One can try this at home in front of the computer when sitting down, one's head will not be perfectly horizontal, that is no matter how hard one tries to bend one's neck into a 90 degree angle. Ok, maybe some gymnast can do it, I can't. I do claim that JFK's head's/neck's position can be seen from the Zapruder film and possibly the other footage showing the limousine approaching the Altgens position. This will demonstrate the position of JFK and his head/neck at or near the James Altgens positon on Elm Street. Considering that the bullet is approaching in a downward angle of an assumed 10 degrees and the head of JFK is in an upward angle of an assumed 10 degrees, I see no way how it is possible for a bullet to strike the neck in the soft fleshy section and to then travel upwards to enter the skull at the EOP. In fact had the bullet travelled in the way you say, a midget in the trunk with a gun could have done the trick, but that's silly. Perhaps it was a ricochet...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas H. Purvis Posted October 23, 2007 Author Share Posted October 23, 2007 Thomas H. Purvis Posted Oct 19 2007, 01:20 PM Antti (& any others); I am currently in argument with one of the so-called greats of the medical evidence on another talk show, and since this has more or less been my home for the longest time, then it would be supposed that it should be explained here. 1. Many think there is confusion on the part of Dr. Humes/Boswell/Finck in locating the entrance wound into the back of the head of JFK. (Above the EOP/Below the EOP) Actually, not unlike most of the other evidence, the confusion lies in those who are not listening to what is stated. The entry point through the SCALP was at the lower edge of the hairline at the back of the neck/base of the skull of JFK, and was BELOW the level of the EOP. The bullet tunnelled through the soft tissue at the base of the neck, to strike the skull ABOVE the EOP. NOW! Were JFK sitting in an erect position (as he is at Z313) and such a bullet impact struck on a downward firing angle of approximately 15-degrees downward, then it would be physically impossible for that bullet to have immediately, upon impact, to have turned upwards on an angle which would have taken it through the soft tissue at the base of the skull, to ultimately impact with the skull in the EOP vicinity. So! 1. The actual first point of impact was actually the coat of JFK at the junction of where the collar turns down. Due to the acute/oblique position of the coat/collar at the point of impact, the bullet traversed through the fabric on an angle, and although it penetrated the coat as well as the liner, the two holes are not exactly/directly in alignment when the cloth is flattened out. 2. The bullet then struck the base of the skull of JFK at the lowere edge of the hairline. 3. Due to the position in which JFK was in at the time of impact, leaning/bent/well forward with his head down and his face slightly turned, the back of his neck and head were exposed in a horizontal/horizontal-downward position. 4. This position is how the striking bullet managed to strike at the base of the hairline below the level of the EOP, traverse through the soft flesh of the neck, and then ultimately strike the skull in the vicinity of the EOP. 5. This is also the WHY? that the entrance wound through the skull of JFK had an abnormally extended length, as the bullet struck the skull on the same actute/oblique angle as it penetrated throught the coat and the sof tissues at the base of the skull. Dr. Boswell, in his autopsy sheet drawing merely drew in the direction of the bullet based on the vertical position in which the drawing was made. When one takes the actual pathway of the bullet: Base of skull below EOP at edge of hairline-----to/through soft tissue of neck------------to elongated skull impact slightly above EOP------------------to impact with tip/upper edge of occipital lobe of brain--------------- Then one must either accept that either a midget was hiding in the trunk of the Presidential Limo and fired on an upward position, or else, JFK's head was not in the vertical posiltion at the time of impact of this bullet. I do find your take here to be quite sound. A few follow-up questions, since you say there were two shots to the head, and the second shot to the head (the final shot) occurred at James Altgens position, what film, or photo would have captured this event? Can you give an approximate Zapruder film frame or other? Not unlike other things in the Zapruder film that one will not see, they will not see the impact of this, the final shot. However, one may want to take a close look at: http://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z341.jpg (as well as those frames on each side of Z341) As well as questioning exactly why the "Sprocket Holes" have the same demonstrated problem as those once missing frames of the film in the Z210 range. http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/altgens.htm Mr. ALTGENS - This would put me at approximately this area here, which would be about 15 feet from me at the time he was shot in the head--about 15 feet from the car on the west side of the car--on the side that Mrs. Kennedy was riding in the car. Mr. ALTGENS - I know that it would be right at 15 feet, because I had prefocused in that area, and I had my camera almost to my eye when it happened and that's as far as I got with my camera. Because, you see, even up to that time I didn't know that the President had been shot previously. I still thought up until that time that all I heard was fireworks and that they were giving some sort of celebration to the President by popping these fireworks. It stunned me so at what I saw that I failed to do my duty and make the picture that I was hoping to make. Mr. ALTGENS - Yes. What made me almost certain that the shot came from behind was because at the time I was looking at the President, just as he was struck There was flesh particles that flew out of the side of his head in my direction from where I was standing, And, as Mr. Paul Harvey once stated: "Now, you know the rest of the story". At least as to why Jackie determined it prudent to vacate the Limosine! Can you show supporting evidence for your claim? I would refer to their testimonies and the Zapruder film, which both indicate to me, that John Connally was already seriously wounded at the time that his wife pulled him down, and out of the line of fire. JBC suffered a broken wrist from impact of a bullet fragment from the Z313 headshot at the time that he went over into Nellie's side of the car with his head in her lap. Nellie did not "pull him down", she merely grabbed JBC when he went into her direction and held onto him after he went over into her direction and began slumping down into the seat. Mrs. CONNALLY. No, he turned away from me. I was pretending that I was him. I never again looked in the back seat of the car after my husband was shot. My concern was for him, and I remember that he turned to the right and then just slumped down into the seat, so that I reached over to pull him toward me. X was trying to get him down and me down. The jump seats were not very roomy, so that there were reports that he slid into the seat of the car, which he did not; that he fell over into my lap, which he did not. I just pulled him over into my arms And then he just recoiled and just sort of slumped in his seat. I thought he was dead. When you see a big man totally defenseless like that, then you do whatever you think you can do to help most and the only thing I could think of to do was to pull him down out of the line of fire, or whatever was happening to us and I thought if I could get him down, maybe they wouldn't hurt him anymore. So, I pulled him down in my lap. We learned later--I read a lot of stories that upset me later because they said we slipped down into the floor, that John slid off, fell over into my lap. Those little jump seats were not very big and there was no way that he could have slid to the floor, there is no way either of us could have got to the floor. The only thing I could do was pull him down and by leaning over him, I hoped if anything else happened, they wouldn't hurt him anymore. I never looked back after John was hit. I heard Mrs. Kennedy say, "they have shot my husband." and out of the line of fire.[/b] NOPE! When JBC went over/down across the seats with his head in Nellie's lap, he exposed his back and right shoulder to the bullet which exited the head of JFK (aka the third/last/final shot). When this bullet exited: Mrs. CONNALLY- The third shot that I heard I felt, it felt like spent buckshot falling all over us, and then, of course, I too could see that it was the matter, brain tissue, or whatever, just human matter, all over the car and both of us. MR. Altgens - There was flesh particles that flew out of the side of his head in my direction from where I was standing, Thus, JBC in fact went over/was partially pulled down, directly into the line of fire for the bullet as it traversed through the mid-brain of JFK, exited the skull in the frontal lobe, and thereafter struck JBC in the shoulder which was exposed across the open area between the jump seats where JBC & Nellie were located. And, as Mr. Paul Harvey stated: "And, now you know the rest of the story". as regards the WHY that JBC's coat had to be laundered prior to being examined. http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/frazr2.htm Mr. FRAZIER - It is different in that the President's clothing had not been cleaned. It had only been dried. The blood was dried. However, the Governor's garments had been cleaned and pressed. Sitting upright in the jump seat at Z313, it was physically impossible for cerebral tissue from the head of JFK to have splattered all over the back side of the coat worn by JBC. However, when leaning across the open area between the jump seats with his back and shoulder exposed, at the time of the third/last/final shot impact, which also blew cerebral tissue forward in the limosine, the entire backside of JBC's coat would have been covered with blood/cerebral tissue. One would have thought that some of these "Blood Splatter" experts would have taken the time to have figured this one out also. Tom Tom, Sorry for my delayed reply. Thanks for your further explanation. I'm still having trouble understanding this scenario. I can understand that you say that the third shot to the head occurred at the Altgens position and that this bullet also struck JBC. However, I have diffficulties in visualizing this bullets path. You say that: 1. The actual first point of impact was actually the coat of JFK at the junction of where the collar turns down.Due to the acute/oblique position of the coat/collar at the point of impact, the bullet traversed through the fabric on an angle, and although it penetrated the coat as well as the liner, the two holes are not exactly/directly in alignment when the cloth is flattened out. 2. The bullet then struck the base of the skull of JFK at the lowere edge of the hairline. 3. Due to the position in which JFK was in at the time of impact, leaning/bent/well forward with his head down and his face slightly turned, the back of his neck and head were exposed in a horizontal/horizontal-downward position. 4. This position is how the striking bullet managed to strike at the base of the hairline below the level of the EOP, traverse through the soft flesh of the neck, and then ultimately strike the skull in the vicinity of the EOP. 5. This is also the WHY? that the entrance wound through the skull of JFK had an abnormally extended length, as the bullet struck the skull on the same actute/oblique angle as it penetrated throught the coat and the sof tissues at the base of the skull. Dr. Boswell, in his autopsy sheet drawing merely drew in the direction of the bullet based on the vertical position in which the drawing was made. When one takes the actual pathway of the bullet: Base of skull below EOP at edge of hairline-----to/through soft tissue of neck------------to elongated skull impact slightly above EOP------------------to impact with tip/upper edge of occipital lobe of brain--------------- Then one must either accept that either a midget was hiding in the trunk of the Presidential Limo and fired on an upward position, or else, JFK's head was not in the vertical posiltion at the time of impact of this bullet. From this I can recap the following: 3rd bullet strike: JFK's head is relatively horizontal (you stated vertical in a prior post?), he is struck in the neck near the collar of his coat, this bullet travels through the soft tissues of the neck to enter the skull at the EOP... I can not visualize this happening, as it seems quite unrealistic to me. Not that most things in this case don't seem that way, but this is just, well, how should I say it, unbelievable to me. To back up a bit, the underlying assumption is that also this bullet is fired from the TSBD SW6 floor window. It is therefore traveling in a downward angle of say 10 degrees (just to make it simple). However, the victim (JFK) is still sitting semi-upright, with his head tilted forward (I'd say less than perfectly horizontal, as opposed to completely horizontal) and to the side. Problem: although we agree that JFK's neck is exposed due to this position, his head is only midway between being horizontal from vertical. Not completely horizontal and definitely not beyond horizontal. Therefore I claim that JFK's head is in a slight upward angle, say 10 degrees up from a perfect horizontal tilt. (tilted forward, towards being horizontal, but not horizontal). One can try this at home in front of the computer when sitting down, one's head will not be perfectly horizontal, that is no matter how hard one tries to bend one's neck into a 90 degree angle. Ok, maybe some gymnast can do it, I can't. I do claim that JFK's head's/neck's position can be seen from the Zapruder film and possibly the other footage showing the limousine approaching the Altgens position. This will demonstrate the position of JFK and his head/neck at or near the James Altgens positon on Elm Street. Considering that the bullet is approaching in a downward angle of an assumed 10 degrees and the head of JFK is in an upward angle of an assumed 10 degrees, I see no way how it is possible for a bullet to strike the neck in the soft fleshy section and to then travel upwards to enter the skull at the EOP. In fact had the bullet travelled in the way you say, a midget in the trunk with a gun could have done the trick, but that's silly. Perhaps it was a ricochet...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas H. Purvis Posted October 23, 2007 Author Share Posted October 23, 2007 Thomas H. Purvis Posted Oct 19 2007, 01:20 PM Antti (& any others); I am currently in argument with one of the so-called greats of the medical evidence on another talk show, and since this has more or less been my home for the longest time, then it would be supposed that it should be explained here. 1. Many think there is confusion on the part of Dr. Humes/Boswell/Finck in locating the entrance wound into the back of the head of JFK. (Above the EOP/Below the EOP) Actually, not unlike most of the other evidence, the confusion lies in those who are not listening to what is stated. The entry point through the SCALP was at the lower edge of the hairline at the back of the neck/base of the skull of JFK, and was BELOW the level of the EOP. The bullet tunnelled through the soft tissue at the base of the neck, to strike the skull ABOVE the EOP. NOW! Were JFK sitting in an erect position (as he is at Z313) and such a bullet impact struck on a downward firing angle of approximately 15-degrees downward, then it would be physically impossible for that bullet to have immediately, upon impact, to have turned upwards on an angle which would have taken it through the soft tissue at the base of the skull, to ultimately impact with the skull in the EOP vicinity. So! 1. The actual first point of impact was actually the coat of JFK at the junction of where the collar turns down. Due to the acute/oblique position of the coat/collar at the point of impact, the bullet traversed through the fabric on an angle, and although it penetrated the coat as well as the liner, the two holes are not exactly/directly in alignment when the cloth is flattened out. 2. The bullet then struck the base of the skull of JFK at the lowere edge of the hairline. 3. Due to the position in which JFK was in at the time of impact, leaning/bent/well forward with his head down and his face slightly turned, the back of his neck and head were exposed in a horizontal/horizontal-downward position. 4. This position is how the striking bullet managed to strike at the base of the hairline below the level of the EOP, traverse through the soft flesh of the neck, and then ultimately strike the skull in the vicinity of the EOP. 5. This is also the WHY? that the entrance wound through the skull of JFK had an abnormally extended length, as the bullet struck the skull on the same actute/oblique angle as it penetrated throught the coat and the sof tissues at the base of the skull. Dr. Boswell, in his autopsy sheet drawing merely drew in the direction of the bullet based on the vertical position in which the drawing was made. When one takes the actual pathway of the bullet: Base of skull below EOP at edge of hairline-----to/through soft tissue of neck------------to elongated skull impact slightly above EOP------------------to impact with tip/upper edge of occipital lobe of brain--------------- Then one must either accept that either a midget was hiding in the trunk of the Presidential Limo and fired on an upward position, or else, JFK's head was not in the vertical posiltion at the time of impact of this bullet. I do find your take here to be quite sound. A few follow-up questions, since you say there were two shots to the head, and the second shot to the head (the final shot) occurred at James Altgens position, what film, or photo would have captured this event? Can you give an approximate Zapruder film frame or other? Not unlike other things in the Zapruder film that one will not see, they will not see the impact of this, the final shot. However, one may want to take a close look at: http://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z341.jpg (as well as those frames on each side of Z341) As well as questioning exactly why the "Sprocket Holes" have the same demonstrated problem as those once missing frames of the film in the Z210 range. http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/altgens.htm Mr. ALTGENS - This would put me at approximately this area here, which would be about 15 feet from me at the time he was shot in the head--about 15 feet from the car on the west side of the car--on the side that Mrs. Kennedy was riding in the car. Mr. ALTGENS - I know that it would be right at 15 feet, because I had prefocused in that area, and I had my camera almost to my eye when it happened and that's as far as I got with my camera. Because, you see, even up to that time I didn't know that the President had been shot previously. I still thought up until that time that all I heard was fireworks and that they were giving some sort of celebration to the President by popping these fireworks. It stunned me so at what I saw that I failed to do my duty and make the picture that I was hoping to make. Mr. ALTGENS - Yes. What made me almost certain that the shot came from behind was because at the time I was looking at the President, just as he was struck There was flesh particles that flew out of the side of his head in my direction from where I was standing, And, as Mr. Paul Harvey once stated: "Now, you know the rest of the story". At least as to why Jackie determined it prudent to vacate the Limosine! Can you show supporting evidence for your claim? I would refer to their testimonies and the Zapruder film, which both indicate to me, that John Connally was already seriously wounded at the time that his wife pulled him down, and out of the line of fire. JBC suffered a broken wrist from impact of a bullet fragment from the Z313 headshot at the time that he went over into Nellie's side of the car with his head in her lap. Nellie did not "pull him down", she merely grabbed JBC when he went into her direction and held onto him after he went over into her direction and began slumping down into the seat. Mrs. CONNALLY. No, he turned away from me. I was pretending that I was him. I never again looked in the back seat of the car after my husband was shot. My concern was for him, and I remember that he turned to the right and then just slumped down into the seat, so that I reached over to pull him toward me. X was trying to get him down and me down. The jump seats were not very roomy, so that there were reports that he slid into the seat of the car, which he did not; that he fell over into my lap, which he did not. I just pulled him over into my arms And then he just recoiled and just sort of slumped in his seat. I thought he was dead. When you see a big man totally defenseless like that, then you do whatever you think you can do to help most and the only thing I could think of to do was to pull him down out of the line of fire, or whatever was happening to us and I thought if I could get him down, maybe they wouldn't hurt him anymore. So, I pulled him down in my lap. We learned later--I read a lot of stories that upset me later because they said we slipped down into the floor, that John slid off, fell over into my lap. Those little jump seats were not very big and there was no way that he could have slid to the floor, there is no way either of us could have got to the floor. The only thing I could do was pull him down and by leaning over him, I hoped if anything else happened, they wouldn't hurt him anymore. I never looked back after John was hit. I heard Mrs. Kennedy say, "they have shot my husband." and out of the line of fire.[/b] NOPE! When JBC went over/down across the seats with his head in Nellie's lap, he exposed his back and right shoulder to the bullet which exited the head of JFK (aka the third/last/final shot). When this bullet exited: Mrs. CONNALLY- The third shot that I heard I felt, it felt like spent buckshot falling all over us, and then, of course, I too could see that it was the matter, brain tissue, or whatever, just human matter, all over the car and both of us. MR. Altgens - There was flesh particles that flew out of the side of his head in my direction from where I was standing, Thus, JBC in fact went over/was partially pulled down, directly into the line of fire for the bullet as it traversed through the mid-brain of JFK, exited the skull in the frontal lobe, and thereafter struck JBC in the shoulder which was exposed across the open area between the jump seats where JBC & Nellie were located. And, as Mr. Paul Harvey stated: "And, now you know the rest of the story". as regards the WHY that JBC's coat had to be laundered prior to being examined. http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/frazr2.htm Mr. FRAZIER - It is different in that the President's clothing had not been cleaned. It had only been dried. The blood was dried. However, the Governor's garments had been cleaned and pressed. Sitting upright in the jump seat at Z313, it was physically impossible for cerebral tissue from the head of JFK to have splattered all over the back side of the coat worn by JBC. However, when leaning across the open area between the jump seats with his back and shoulder exposed, at the time of the third/last/final shot impact, which also blew cerebral tissue forward in the limosine, the entire backside of JBC's coat would have been covered with blood/cerebral tissue. One would have thought that some of these "Blood Splatter" experts would have taken the time to have figured this one out also. Tom Tom, Sorry for my delayed reply. Thanks for your further explanation. I'm still having trouble understanding this scenario. I can understand that you say that the third shot to the head occurred at the Altgens position and that this bullet also struck JBC. However, I have diffficulties in visualizing this bullets path. You say that: 1. The actual first point of impact was actually the coat of JFK at the junction of where the collar turns down.Due to the acute/oblique position of the coat/collar at the point of impact, the bullet traversed through the fabric on an angle, and although it penetrated the coat as well as the liner, the two holes are not exactly/directly in alignment when the cloth is flattened out. 2. The bullet then struck the base of the skull of JFK at the lowere edge of the hairline. 3. Due to the position in which JFK was in at the time of impact, leaning/bent/well forward with his head down and his face slightly turned, the back of his neck and head were exposed in a horizontal/horizontal-downward position. 4. This position is how the striking bullet managed to strike at the base of the hairline below the level of the EOP, traverse through the soft flesh of the neck, and then ultimately strike the skull in the vicinity of the EOP. 5. This is also the WHY? that the entrance wound through the skull of JFK had an abnormally extended length, as the bullet struck the skull on the same actute/oblique angle as it penetrated throught the coat and the sof tissues at the base of the skull. Dr. Boswell, in his autopsy sheet drawing merely drew in the direction of the bullet based on the vertical position in which the drawing was made. When one takes the actual pathway of the bullet: Base of skull below EOP at edge of hairline-----to/through soft tissue of neck------------to elongated skull impact slightly above EOP------------------to impact with tip/upper edge of occipital lobe of brain--------------- Then one must either accept that either a midget was hiding in the trunk of the Presidential Limo and fired on an upward position, or else, JFK's head was not in the vertical posiltion at the time of impact of this bullet. From this I can recap the following: 3rd bullet strike: JFK's head is relatively horizontal (you stated vertical in a prior post?), he is struck in the neck near the collar of his coat, this bullet travels through the soft tissues of the neck to enter the skull at the EOP... I can not visualize this happening, as it seems quite unrealistic to me. Not that most things in this case don't seem that way, but this is just, well, how should I say it, unbelievable to me. To back up a bit, the underlying assumption is that also this bullet is fired from the TSBD SW6 floor window. It is therefore traveling in a downward angle of say 10 degrees (just to make it simple). However, the victim (JFK) is still sitting semi-upright, with his head tilted forward (I'd say less than perfectly horizontal, as opposed to completely horizontal) and to the side. Problem: although we agree that JFK's neck is exposed due to this position, his head is only midway between being horizontal from vertical. Not completely horizontal and definitely not beyond horizontal. Therefore I claim that JFK's head is in a slight upward angle, say 10 degrees up from a perfect horizontal tilt. (tilted forward, towards being horizontal, but not horizontal). One can try this at home in front of the computer when sitting down, one's head will not be perfectly horizontal, that is no matter how hard one tries to bend one's neck into a 90 degree angle. Ok, maybe some gymnast can do it, I can't. I do claim that JFK's head's/neck's position can be seen from the Zapruder film and possibly the other footage showing the limousine approaching the Altgens position. This will demonstrate the position of JFK and his head/neck at or near the James Altgens positon on Elm Street. Considering that the bullet is approaching in a downward angle of an assumed 10 degrees and the head of JFK is in an upward angle of an assumed 10 degrees, I see no way how it is possible for a bullet to strike the neck in the soft fleshy section and to then travel upwards to enter the skull at the EOP. In fact had the bullet travelled in the way you say, a midget in the trunk with a gun could have done the trick, but that's silly. Perhaps it was a ricochet...? Antti; It is recognized that neither you, (nor anyone else for that matter) are in possession of the kinds of documents and information in my possession which are relative to the survey work done for various assassination re-enactments. So. http://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z341.jpg 1. The true downward angle of fire for the third/last/final/aka directly out in front of James Altgens shot, was, almost 12-degrees downward (which incorporates the downward slope of Elm St.). 3. Now, in event that you accept that Abraham Zapruder was standing on the pedestal and filming the Presidential Motorcade, while leaning his head so far to the left that the filming actually makes the Presidential Limo appear to be moving on an "uphill" grade, when in fact it was travelling on a "downhill" grade, then, that is of course your perogative. Personally, I like to kind of "rotate" the film down in order to get the correct perspective, relative to the true downward angle of fire and downward grade of Elm St. 2. Not unlike the JBC wounds, unless one is familiar with survey functions, they tend to forget that we work in two separate "planes". The "Vertical Angle" as well as the "Horizontal Angle". For purposes of the JFK assassination, the Vertical Angle references the downward angle of fire, and the Horizontal Angle references the "Cross-Angle" of fire, which most persons tend to forget about. This is of course partially why they insist that the SBT is a farce, as they reference the "Cross-Angle" of fire through the chest of JBC which the bullet would have had to make. Of course, they also make this reference with JBC sitting erect, when in fact the angular pathway through the chest of JBC for the bullet which created these wounds, is in fact a "COMBINATION" of the two angles. This combination includes the actual DOWNWARD angle of fire, complimented by the CROSS-ANGLE of fire as JBC was in fact laying across the open area in between the jump seats at the time that the bullet struck him in the right shoulder, just to the right of the shoulder blade, and thereafter continued on a DOWNWARD angle to strike the right fifth rib. If one is "into" positioning, then merely sit in a chair and thereafter lean far to your left, supporting yourself with the left arm/elbow on another chair which is approximately 15 to 18 inches to the left of the chair in which you are sitting. Now, with your torso in an almost horizontal position to the left, roll your right shoulder slightly backwards and look slightly over your shoulder behind you. This position exposes the right shoulder to the bullet (third/last/final/James Altgens shot), in the position at which the bullet, after having exited the head of JFK, then struck JBC in the right shoulder, just to the right of the shoulder blade, and then penetrated through the chest on a downward angle through the horizontal torso of JBC. Now, if you want to sit JBC up vertically with these wounds, you have now created a "Cross-Angle" of penetration through his chest, which as most are aware, totally negates the physical ability of CE399 to have struck JBC in the right shoulder and to have then gone crossways through his chest. OK! Now, back to JFK in the next chapter. However, just recall, that the angle of penetration through the neck to skull-through the head of JFK is in fact a combination angle of approximately 12 degrees downward, with a cross-angle of fire of approximately 7-degrees from right to left. So, when one makes an attempt to correlate the entry wounds of this shot to JFK's head, and one holds the head in an erect postiion, nothing will fit. JFK is/was leaning forward and to the left, with the right side of his head turned somewhat upwards, thus exposing the right rear area of his neck and head to the bullet pathway which had a downward angle of approximately 12-degrees downward as well as 7-degrees cross-angle. So, this: http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...Vol17_0036a.htm "ragged slanting 15 X 6mm" wound to the back of the head, when the head is held erect: Becomes this when the head is held in the horizontal position. This angle of impact to the skull created the elongated entry wound through the skull which the autopsy surgeons clearly located and measured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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