Lee Oswald’s Departure from the TSBD

[Duke Lane]

... Just to comment on the cop car trying to speed up traffic ahead of it; wouldn't they have most likely been "code 3" (siren&lights), or if not code 3, wouldn't they have used their siren&lights to make it clear to others in traffic that they were responding to a call, that is, if in fact they were responding to a shooting call?

If it was ... but it wasn't. Or if it was, it gave no indication of doing so either at the intersection or on the radio. Almost all of the patrols had been called out of Oak Cliff by 1:00 anyway, and of those known to be in the area (with one possible exception) were nowhere near Beckley & Zangs (District 106). The driver of that "one possible exception" reported being entirely elsewhere, however.

I do agree that if we consider Earlene's testimony reliable (I think most of it is), she did in fact hear a cop car honk in front of her house about that time, and the reasons why that police was there at that time make an excellent question/discussion.

Is it entirely impossible that it was Tippit's car?

He seemed to have that extra uniform in his car, and that may have been (worn by) the second officer at that time. I agree that she was confused about the number on the car. As far as I know he was one of the closest, if not the closest to this location at that time, yes?

Of course it's not "entirely impossible" that it was Tippit's car, but it is highly unlikely. Think about it:

From his last transmission at 12:54 at Lancaster & 8th, he most likely went to the Top Ten Records shop where he made a call, then after getting no answer, dropped by Oswald's house, somewhere along the line gaining another officer wearing a uniform in his car. He beeps in front of 1026, turns right on Zangs and then hurries on down to 10th & Crawford so he can get shot, dropping the other officer off along the way, and the officer - who'd been presumably wearing his uniform in front of 1026 - changes his clothes somewhere en route. His route would've been something like this:

Based on the stories we're familiar with, we know it had to like that because /a/ he parked on the side of the Top Ten, on Bishop Street; /b/ he left crossing Jefferson and turning on Sunset; /c/ he passed in front of 1026 going from south to north, then turned right onto Zangs; and /d/ he approached Patton Street on 10th coming from the west.

That trip, according to Google and not accounting for a stop at the record shop, takes about 16 minutes; add three for the Top Ten, that's 19 minutes, from 12:54 would be 1:13. That's cutting it pretty tight, even if he wasn't already dead by then. (He could've save three minutes by doing a U-turn on Zangs and driving down to Davis and then cutting over to Crawford, but that's still 1:10.)

Now if we presume he drove directly from 1026 to 10&P, that would've only taken him about six minutes, putting him well ahead of Oswald getting there. Can't have that, so let's presume he parked in front of the Gloco for a while after turning onto Zangs from 1026 then suddenly took off "at a high rate of speed" south on Lancaster and thence to his death. What happened to the other cop by then? He wasn't there, or at least wasn't reported as being there, and even if he was, he wasn't by the time Tippit got to 10&P. What happened there? Did the "other officer" suddenly realize he was late in changing his clothes, and Tippit dropped him off somewhere to do so, then waited for him to put his uniform back into the car, and then leaving said officer behind?

Remember that the Gloco cop went zipping "at a high rate of speed" down Lancaster. Lancaster is east of Patton, so "Tippit" thereafter had to go west past Patton so he could turn around and mosey through the neighborhood where he was headed east and, "slow, real slow," pulled over to the curb in front of which he got shot. What happened to that desperate speed (not to mention the other officer)? Did Tippit suddenly realize that Oswald would be getting to where he was going to shoot Tippit, so he rushed off so he wouldn't be late for his own murder?

I know that whole thing sounds a little fantastic (if not a little sarcastic to boot!), but Tippit - if he was the cop driving in front of 1026 - did not enter some mysterious time warp where reality and reason were on vacation. He had to go from point "A" to point "B" is some realistic and reasonable manner. It can't be done sensibly.

The "second uniform" has long ago been debunked as a jacket, which given the cooler and wetter conditions of the morning makes much sense for him to have had. If you posit a "second uniform" worn by a second "officer," where did this second officer change clothes between Beckley and Tenth, why did he change clothes, and where did he go? Did Tippit leave him somewhere? If so, where? And why? Where did he disappear to afterward, since it's fairly apparent there were no cops responding to the scene on foot or who suddenly showed up there inexplicably.

So if Earlene Roberts saw two police officers in the car at 1:00-1:04, then that could not have been Tippit's car until and unless someone determines where his "partner" came on board, why he left his uniform in Tippit's car within 15 minutes of the time Earlene had seen them, and where he went. It's doubtful that she saw (even given her limited eyesight) a uniform hanging in the back seat and though that it was another cop ... and what cop is going to "chauffeur" his partner in the back seat of the cruiser? If ever a second cop was going to be in the back seat with a single cop in the front would've been in transporting a prisoner to have control over him to ensure the driver's safety.

... Which raises an intriguing possibility, except that Earlene didn't say anything about the second cop being in the back seat. It's also intriguing that the Oswald character - be he Oswald or anyone else - walked to the same corner the police car turned, and other than that he apparently stopped at the corner (for an indeterminate period of time: could've been a couple of minutes, could've been only momentarily), one could wonder if the cops didn't wait for Oswald just around the bend. But if so, why would he have stopped and stood there? Possibly the patrol car pulled a U-turn on Zangs, went south on it past (or even to) Beckley again, and then did another U-turn to pick up "Oswald."

But if that were so - and I'm not saying that it's not - then that means that "Oswald" got into the car voluntarily, and the cops rushed him off to some point unknown in the neighborhood, then let him out - abandoned him, gun in hand - to wander a neighborhood where eventually another cop would come along and get shot by him. Now if Oswald did get into the first police car voluntarily, what could have happened in it - before he was abandoned - that suddenly made him think that the next cop who came along was out to "get" him, and that he had to shoot said cop in "self defense?"

I think that, in any event, it's a safe bet that, even if it was Tippit in the "beep-beep" car, that he didn't pick up Oswald then turn him loose, only to come back to him, stop beside him and get shot because Oswald was ticked off because he'd had to walk.

Got a better scenario? The "Tippit beeping" one doesn't work.

[Jack White]

I was always under the impression that the TOP TEN RECORD STORE was on Jefferson.

Am I wrong?

Jack

[Denis Pointing]

I was always under the impression that the TOP TEN RECORD STORE was on Jefferson.

Am I wrong?

Jack

The Top Ten Record Shop is located at 338 West Jefferson Blvd.

It's approximately one and a half blocks west of the theatre on the opposite side of the street near the corner of West Jefferson and South Bishop Ave.

[img]

Edited October 30, 2008 by Denis Pointing

[Denis Pointing]

[Denis Pointing]

View from front window from behind counter

Edited October 30, 2008 by Denis Pointing

[Denis Pointing]

Actual phone used by Tippit

Edited October 30, 2008 by Denis Pointing

[Denis Pointing]

Original and present owner Mick Polk.

[Antti Hynonen]

Duke Lane Posted Today, 12:13 AM

QUOTE(Antti Hynonen @ Oct 29 2008, 09:50 AM)

... Just to comment on the cop car trying to speed up traffic ahead of it; wouldn't they have most likely been "code 3" (siren&lights), or if not code 3, wouldn't they have used their siren&lights to make it clear to others in traffic that they were responding to a call, that is, if in fact they were responding to a shooting call?

If it was ... but it wasn't. Or if it was, it gave no indication of doing so either at the intersection or on the radio. Almost all of the patrols had been called out of Oak Cliff by 1:00 anyway, and of those known to be in the area (with one possible exception) were nowhere near Beckley & Zangs (District 106). The driver of that "one possible exception" reported being entirely elsewhere, however.

QUOTE(Antti Hynonen @ Oct 29 2008, 09:50 AM)

I do agree that if we consider Earlene's testimony reliable (I think most of it is), she did in fact hear a cop car honk in front of her house about that time, and the reasons why that police was there at that time make an excellent question/discussion.

Is it entirely impossible that it was Tippit's car?

He seemed to have that extra uniform in his car, and that may have been (worn by) the second officer at that time. I agree that she was confused about the number on the car. As far as I know he was one of the closest, if not the closest to this location at that time, yes?

Of course it's not "entirely impossible" that it was Tippit's car, but it is highly unlikely. Think about it:

From his last transmission at 12:54 at Lancaster & 8th, he most likely went to the Top Ten Records shop where he made a call, then after getting no answer, dropped by Oswald's house, somewhere along the line gaining another officer wearing a uniform in his car. He beeps in front of 1026, turns right on Zangs and then hurries on down to 10th & Crawford so he can get shot, dropping the other officer off along the way, and the officer - who'd been presumably wearing his uniform in front of 1026 - changes his clothes somewhere en route. His route would've been something like this:

Based on the stories we're familiar with, we know it had to like that because /a/ he parked on the side of the Top Ten, on Bishop Street; /b/ he left crossing Jefferson and turning on Sunset; /c/ he passed in front of 1026 going from south to north, then turned right onto Zangs; and /d/ he approached Patton Street on 10th coming from the west.

That trip, according to Google and not accounting for a stop at the record shop, takes about 16 minutes; add three for the Top Ten, that's 19 minutes, from 12:54 would be 1:13. That's cutting it pretty tight, even if he wasn't already dead by then. (He could've save three minutes by doing a U-turn on Zangs and driving down to Davis and then cutting over to Crawford, but that's still 1:10.)

Now if we presume he drove directly from 1026 to 10&P, that would've only taken him about six minutes, putting him well ahead of Oswald getting there. Can't have that, so let's presume he parked in front of the Gloco for a while after turning onto Zangs from 1026 then suddenly took off "at a high rate of speed" south on Lancaster and thence to his death. What happened to the other cop by then? He wasn't there, or at least wasn't reported as being there, and even if he was, he wasn't by the time Tippit got to 10&P. What happened there? Did the "other officer" suddenly realize he was late in changing his clothes, and Tippit dropped him off somewhere to do so, then waited for him to put his uniform back into the car, and then leaving said officer behind?

Remember that the Gloco cop went zipping "at a high rate of speed" down Lancaster. Lancaster is east of Patton, so "Tippit" thereafter had to go west past Patton so he could turn around and mosey through the neighborhood where he was headed east and, "slow, real slow," pulled over to the curb in front of which he got shot. What happened to that desperate speed (not to mention the other officer)? Did Tippit suddenly realize that Oswald would be getting to where he was going to shoot Tippit, so he rushed off so he wouldn't be late for his own murder?

I know that whole thing sounds a little fantastic (if not a little sarcastic to boot!), but Tippit - if he was the cop driving in front of 1026 - did not enter some mysterious time warp where reality and reason were on vacation. He had to go from point "A" to point "B" is some realistic and reasonable manner. It can't be done sensibly.

The "second uniform" has long ago been debunked as a jacket, which given the cooler and wetter conditions of the morning makes much sense for him to have had. If you posit a "second uniform" worn by a second "officer," where did this second officer change clothes between Beckley and Tenth, why did he change clothes, and where did he go? Did Tippit leave him somewhere? If so, where? And why? Where did he disappear to afterward, since it's fairly apparent there were no cops responding to the scene on foot or who suddenly showed up there inexplicably.

So if Earlene Roberts saw two police officers in the car at 1:00-1:04, then that could not have been Tippit's car until and unless someone determines where his "partner" came on board, why he left his uniform in Tippit's car within 15 minutes of the time Earlene had seen them, and where he went. It's doubtful that she saw (even given her limited eyesight) a uniform hanging in the back seat and though that it was another cop ... and what cop is going to "chauffeur" his partner in the back seat of the cruiser? If ever a second cop was going to be in the back seat with a single cop in the front would've been in transporting a prisoner to have control over him to ensure the driver's safety.

... Which raises an intriguing possibility, except that Earlene didn't say anything about the second cop being in the back seat. It's also intriguing that the Oswald character - be he Oswald or anyone else - walked to the same corner the police car turned, and other than that he apparently stopped at the corner (for an indeterminate period of time: could've been a couple of minutes, could've been only momentarily), one could wonder if the cops didn't wait for Oswald just around the bend. But if so, why would he have stopped and stood there? Possibly the patrol car pulled a U-turn on Zangs, went south on it past (or even to) Beckley again, and then did another U-turn to pick up "Oswald."

But if that were so - and I'm not saying that it's not - then that means that "Oswald" got into the car voluntarily, and the cops rushed him off to some point unknown in the neighborhood, then let him out - abandoned him, gun in hand - to wander a neighborhood where eventually another cop would come along and get shot by him. Now if Oswald did get into the first police car voluntarily, what could have happened in it - before he was abandoned - that suddenly made him think that the next cop who came along was out to "get" him, and that he had to shoot said cop in "self defense?"

I think that, in any event, it's a safe bet that, even if it was Tippit in the "beep-beep" car, that he didn't pick up Oswald then turn him loose, only to come back to him, stop beside him and get shot because Oswald was ticked off because he'd had to walk.

Got a better scenario? The "Tippit beeping" one doesn't work.

Wow.

I don't think any of my scenarios are any better or worse. Definitely don't have another one.

I'll briefly explain my train of thought. First of all, as stated earlier, I do find the bulk of Earlene's testimony credible, and in lack of anything better from before and after 1 p.m. on 11/22/1963 from 1026 N. Beckley, Oak Cliff, Dallas, Texas, I'll go with most of what she said.

Therefore as she claims to have seen a police car honking it's horn, in front of 1026 N Beckley, at the time she stated, I believe one did do just that.

My second phase is to consider what possible police vehicle would be the most likely one to have been in the area. Not being an expert as to the whereabouts of police vehicles in Dallas on that day at about 1 p.m. in the area in question, except that I do recall Tippit's car being in the area, I suggested that perhaps this was the one. What are the other possibilities in your opinion?

Given that Earlene had poor eyesight, she may have been wrong about there having been 2 officers in the car, and may have mistaken the Jacket, (not uniform) for a second officer, or perhaps there only was one officer in the entire car, and she did not recall this fact accurately as, normally the police car that came by 1026 N Beckley had two officers in it. Neither did she recall accurately the number on the car.

She may have been wrong about a few things, but I don't think she was hallucinating about Oswald coming in - going out to the bus stop - nor about the cop car stopping in front. Perhaps it's just the details that she can't quite recall accurately.

Third, I do not believe that the records are entirely precise and accurate as far as they pertain to the whereabouts of police vehicles on that day and time in Dallas Tx. Why? Because I don't think each vehicle on the move bothered to call in it's location all the time.

Given the above, there is room and need to speculate in order to come up with a reasonable answer to the events one can determine to have occurred with reasonable certainty.

Ok, if Tippit's vehicle likely wasn't the one. Which one was it more likely and why?

Denis, thanks for the photos. Always nice to see the actual locations, as opposed to the one's pictured in one's mind.

Here's some of those top ten pics and some stuff on the interviews of the top ten record shop owner's and clerk's etc.

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/top10.htm

Edited October 30, 2008 by Antti Hynonen

[Antti Hynonen]

Duke, in your scenario with Tippit's alleged sequence of stops, have you considered the possibility of switching A and B around, i.e. the Gloco station and Top Ten around. That is, what if Tippit had gone to top ten first then been at the Gloco station for a while before he sped off and perhaps went by 1026 N. Beckley and then to his final destination at 10th and Patton?

Would that work better?

From what I gathered the timing of Tippit's visit by the Top Ten fellows wasn't that accurate, imo.

Edited October 30, 2008 by Antti Hynonen

[Neville Gully]

Got a better scenario? The "Tippit beeping" one doesn't work.

OK I'll give it a go, but please bear in mind this is my first post so please be gentle.........

Tippit is at Gloco and spots LHO in taxi at 12.52 and heads south to Lancaster and 10th. (2 min on Google). Tippit calls in at 12.54 at this location.

Travels north up to 1026 N Beckley and beeps at around 12.59 (I can get LHO to roominghouse at 12.58 I think).

Travels south and finishes up going west on W 10th street where he pulls over Andrews in a frantic state at 1.04 (again Google gives me 5 min from the rooming house).

At 1.05 leaves for Top Ten and arrives at 1.07. Leaves at speed from the record store at 1.09 and finishes at 10th and Patton at 1.12.

Oswald leaves rooming house at 1.00 and is at 10th and Patton at 1.12.

Please see attached Google map with route and times. Possible?

[Steve Mcdonagh]

Hi Guys,

Just want to check some facts guys, do I have the correct positions (within a few meters) of the following?

A = Earlene Roberts house was at - 1026 North Beckley.

B = Officer Tippit was shot at - East Tenth Street and Patton Avenue.

C = The Texas Theatre was located at - 231 W Jefferson Blvd (not on map due to file size restrictions)

One more thing, does anyone know the ‘exact distance’ (within a few meters) from Earlene Robert’s house to E 10th & Patton? – An official measurement where someone had actually walked and measured the distance would be preferable please

Thanks Guys - Steve

Edited to add Map

Edited October 30, 2008 by Steve Mcdonagh

[Antti Hynonen]

Steve Mcdonagh Posted Today, 05:05 PM

Hi Guys,

Just want to check some facts:

Earlene Roberts house was at - 1026 North Beckley.

Officer Tippit was shot at - East Tenth Street and Patton Avenue.

The Texas Theatre was located at - 231 W Jefferson Blvd.

I would also like to know; does anyone know the ‘exact distance’ (within a few meters) from Earlene Robert’s house to E 10th & Patton? – An official measurement where someone had actually walked and measured the distance would be preferable or a source to such please.

Thanks Guys - Steve

Steve,

As far as I can tell, your addresses are accurate. The problem with the exact distance from 1026 N Beckley to 10th and Patton is there are several (ok, at least 2.) reasonable routes one could take, and therefore there isn't an exact distance imo. I think we'll just have to go with the 8/10ths or 0,73 of a mile, as per mapquest.

That is I put in 1026 N Beckley and 400 E 10th Street as the destination.

[Steve Mcdonagh]

Thanks Antti,

I tried to upload a map that i stitched together from google (I will try it again here) and if you ignore the distance it (google) tells you (which I presume is autogenerated) and measure it (crudely but near enough) it came to approximately 620m-650m.

Which although this measurement was obtained using the google measuring stick, doesnt seem right (although it looks right if their stick is accurate) and thats why I asked if there is a record of the exact distance - surely someone must have measured it using a measuring wheel?

Thanks - Steve

Steve Mcdonagh Posted Today, 05:05 PM

Hi Guys,

Just want to check some facts:

Earlene Roberts house was at - 1026 North Beckley.

Officer Tippit was shot at - East Tenth Street and Patton Avenue.

The Texas Theatre was located at - 231 W Jefferson Blvd.

I would also like to know; does anyone know the ‘exact distance’ (within a few meters) from Earlene Robert’s house to E 10th & Patton? – An official measurement where someone had actually walked and measured the distance would be preferable or a source to such please.

Thanks Guys - Steve

Steve,

As far as I can tell, your addresses are accurate. The problem with the exact distance from 1026 N Beckley to 10th and Patton is there are several (ok, at least 2.) reasonable routes one could take, and therefore there isn't an exact distance imo. I think we'll just have to go with the 8/10ths or 0,73 of a mile, as per mapquest.

That is I put in 1026 N Beckley and 400 E 10th Street as the destination.

[Jack White]

Steve...I have never WALKED the alleged route. But I have DRIVEN it many times at about

TWICE WALKING SPEED. Doing that takes about 8-10 minutes, so walking it would take at least

twice as long.

There is one major street to cross, I think including a traffic light. IT IS UPHILL ALL THE WAY,

making walking slower. There are several routes from the bus stop, but I think it is not likely

that Beckley was used, but more likely Crawford, next street to the east. If this route is taken,

one must first walk northeast on Zang before turning south on Crawford. Once getting in the vicinity

of Adamson High School, there are several options after leaving Crawford. We cannot assume

that the MOST DIRECT PATH to Tenth and Patton was chosen. We cannot assume a destination.

We cannot assume anything other than random wandering. Can we?

In fact, we cannot assume that LHO WALKED this or any other path. We do not how he got to

either the Tippit site or the theater. How do we know that he did not RIDE? And we cannot assume

that Harvey was ever at the Tippit site. The whole Tippit scenario is filled with fragmentary

and contradictory information. Some witnesses said he was walking east, others said west.

And what if it was Lee, not Harvey, on Tenth? Other witnesses placed Harvey already in the

theater at the time of the shooting.

I HAVE walked from Neely Street downhill to 1026 Beckley. Neely Street is where LHO

exited the cab. As I recall it took about 6 minutes to get to the rooming house walking

at a normal speed.

The whole Tippit affair is underinvestigated. LHO's activities during the time period are

really unknown.

Jack

[Duke Lane]

I do agree that if we consider Earlene's testimony reliable (I think most of it is), she did in fact hear a cop car honk in front of her house about that time, and the reasons why that police was there at that time make an excellent question/discussion. ... He [Tippit] seemed to have that extra uniform in his car, and that may have been (worn by) the second officer at that time. I agree that she was confused about the number on the car. As far as I know he was one of the closest, if not the closest to this location at that time, yes?

I agree with you that most of what Earlene said is probably reliable, at least insofar as her own actions. I differ with some over whether she made a positive ID of Oswald in her distraction with the TV coupled with her poor vision (versus her merely inferring that it was Oswald who came in because he did what Oswald would have been expected to do, i.e., just walk in and then go to his room).

I don't agree, however, that she was "confused" about the number on the car. She testified that she looked at the number only to see if it was "170," the number on the car of the officer(s) she knew. Once she saw that it wasn't "170," she ignored it, dismissed it, made no attempt to see what it was when all she knew is what it wasn't.

Any "confusion" was after the fact, most likely as a result of her being pressured to remember what the number on the car was, a la: "Well, it wasn't 170 (yes, ma'am, we know that, 170 had been decommissioned), but I don't know what it was. (Do you think it could have been 107?) It might've been. It might've been 207. I only know it wasn't 170. (So it could have been 106?) It might've been. It might've been 10. But it wasn't 107. (Ma'am, 10 was Officer Tippit's car and he wasn't near here.) Okay, so it wasn't 10 either. I don't know what it was. (Okay, ma'am, we'll put you down as 'confused' and then go ahead and investigate where 207 was.)"

I haven't run across the original source document that prompted any investigation into the whereabouts of any vehicle, other than the FBI document asking for an investigation into 207. Where did they get that number from? No doubt Earlene, but when, and to whom did she report it? The trouble with reports is that they're subjectively written and condensed (i.e., "these are what I think are the high points of what you told me, do you agree you said them all?") as opposed to any near-verbatim account of what was said (i.e., not "this is what you said at first, but here you changed your mind, and then later you said something that contradicted that, and when I asked you about it, you said it was maybe this, is that an accurate account of exactly what was said during the course of the last three hours?").

Wow. I don't think any of my scenarios are any better or worse. Definitely don't have another one.

It's not necessary to have one - I remember Jean Davison among others always pestering for an "alternative scenario" as if you cannot have or introduce reasonable doubt if you don't have a better explanation - but the important thing is that whatever one proposes should be thought through from beginning to end to see if it makes sense. I am, after having been through the entire Bledsoe-on-the-bus discussion, convinced that Mary actually was on the bus; prior to it, I hadn't been.

I'll briefly explain my train of thought. First of all, as stated earlier, I do find the bulk of Earlene's testimony credible ... [and] therefore as she claims to have seen a police car honking it's horn, in front of 1026 N Beckley, at the time she stated, I believe one did do just that.

My second phase is to consider what possible police vehicle would be the most likely one to have been in the area. Not being an expert as to the whereabouts of police vehicles in Dallas on that day at about 1 p.m. in the area in question, except that I do recall Tippit's car being in the area, I suggested that perhaps this was the one. ... Third, I do not believe that the records are entirely precise and accurate as far as they pertain to the whereabouts of police vehicles on that day and time in Dallas Tx. Why? Because I don't think each vehicle on the move bothered to call in it's location all the time. What are the other possibilities in your opinion?

This is a "how to fish" story:

Your premise seems to be that (1) a police car went by 1026 with two officers in it and honked its horn in front of the home in Oak Cliff; (2) Tippit's car was in Oak Cliff and he had a jacket in the car that could reasonably be mistaken as a second officer; (3) you don't know if there were other cars in Oak Cliff, and even if you don't think there were - or maybe there might've been since sometimes cops don't always report where they are (or really are!) - then (4) it "makes sense" that Tippit's car was the car in front of Oswald's house. Thence, from what "makes sense," we hypothesize to determine if that possibility can be supported.

Virtually any possibility can be supported, including that Oswald was the lone gunman in the downtown shooting, made the trip home and to the Tippit scene exactly as described, got to the second murder scene in the necessary timeframe, killed Tippit, fled and, half an hour later, ducked into a theater where he was caught. There is evidence to support all of that. The conclusion can be most easily be reached by not taking into account any of the contradictory evidence that suggests or proves otherwise.

The first step, then, is to determine what police patrols in Oak Cliff, and then which officers were assigned duties in each of those districts that morning in the Oak Cliff area. "Oak Cliff" should also be defined as closely as possible (there is no actual hard definition that everyone will agree upon). Then, beginning prior to the downtown shooting, where were those officers assigned or where did they report being (I think it's fair to say that most if not all of them did not lie just for the sake of lying)? Ditto for the timeframe between the downtown shooting and the Oak Cliff shooting.

Of that x-number of on-duty patrols, how many were still in Oak Cliff at about 1:00, and where were they? Assuming their reporting to Elm & Houston, on orders or otherwise, would their most direct route have taken them by 1026? How were most of those officers told to report to the scene: if they were all told to go "code 3," should it be considered that any instead went "code 1" as the car in front of 1026 certainly seemed to be doing? Answers to these questions will help lead to a "suspect pool" of cops who were assigned to Oak Cliff and who might've passed 1026.

You can't account for lies. Let's take the case of Patrolman R.W. Walker, who was assigned to Districts 85 and 86 in south central Oak Cliff. He reported being "clear" at 12:46, presumably in his patrol area. He is next heard from after the "citizen call" about Tippit being shot, indicating shortly before 1:19 that he was "en route" to the Tippit scene. He is then contacted just after the 1:19 time check and told about a suspect was seen running on Jefferson, which he acknowledges, and before the 1:22 time check he calls in to say that he hasn't seen anyone on Jefferson yet.

According to his later report (summarized in CE2645 at 25H913), he had been "assigned" to "remain in district to answer calls in regard to suspect." At the very least, we gather from this that he did not go downtown, and no version of the DPD radio transcripts reflect his being ordered there. They likewise do not order him to remain in his district: he reports being clear and there are no transmissions between him and dispatch until after Tippit's shooting has been reported.

He apparently got to the murder scene pretty quickly since he was reporting from there - presumably, unless he was lying - within two minutes of calling in saying he was "en route." We don't know where he was en route from because he doesn't say, any more than he said where he was "clear" at, which can only be presumed to have been in his district. Technically speaking, his report of having been "assigned ... to answer calls in regard to suspect" cannot be entirely true since no such order was transmitted (it is true, however, inasmuch as he was not ordered away from his district and that everyone should be on the lookout for "a suspect" is a matter of SOP).

So, despite the fact that he wasn't ordered (like Tippit was) to be "at large for any emergency that comes in," that's exactly what he was. He could've been anywhere in Oak Cliff. He might've had a jacket in his car, or maybe a ride-along trainee that day (nowhere does it say one way or another. Nick McDonald, another Oak Cliff patrol officer did have a trainee with him all day until he left the Tippit scene to respond to the theater call ... or maybe it was the library call? Anyway, McDonald left his trainee at 10&P; prior to that, he was ordered to and reported being "out" at Elm & Houston).

Since all patrols other than he and Tippit and Mentzel and Nelson had been ordered out of Oak Cliff to the downtown area, he might've taken it upon himself to cruise the entire area at large, and been the car that "toot-tooted" in front of 1026. We don't know because he was never specifically asked, or at least did not specifically respond (his being "assigned to remain in district" did not answer the question of his possibly going by 1026 ... but it may be that I'm thinking of another report).

So there's another "suspect" besides Tippit. You can count Nelson out because he went downtown. Mentzel was eating lunch, or at least said he was (he could've been lying, but I have no way of knowing since nobody verified this with witnesses). So now we've got one, maybe two others. Or maybe three. Nelson may have been lying, too, since his radio broadcasts having him on a wild goose chase into Oak Cliff while his report says that he was "dispatched to Texas School Book Depository where stationed in front of building remainder of afternoon," neither of which assertions are true according to the record.

Were there others? I know the answer to that, but you've got to go fishing now.

[Earlene] may have been wrong about a few things, but I don't think she was hallucinating about Oswald coming in - going out to the bus stop - nor about the cop car stopping in front. Perhaps it's just the details that she can't quite recall accurately. Given the above, there is room and need to speculate in order to come up with a reasonable answer to the events one can determine to have occurred with reasonable certainty.

Absolutely. I never said that she was hallucinating, only that she was distracted. When someone walked in the door and went directly to Oswald's room, my assertion is that she was so wrapped up in getting the TV to work that she merely glanced, saw someone who at least resembled Oswald (and maybe it was Oswald), who did something totally expected of Oswald to do (went into his room without saying a word), and gave it no more further thought than she did to the number on the police car when it wasn't what she anticipated.

Duke, in your scenario with Tippit's alleged sequence of stops, have you considered the possibility of switching A and B around, i.e. the Gloco station and Top Ten around. That is, what if Tippit had gone to top ten first then been at the Gloco station for a while before he sped off and perhaps went by 1026 N. Beckley and then to his final destination at 10th and Patton? Would that work better?

Good question; I'll try to remember to answer it again later on. Gotta do some other stuff now.