Shanet Clark Posted July 15, 2005 Share Posted July 15, 2005 I found Judyth's story in TMWKK television show to be credible. With so much of the story classified (and so many witnesses murdered) we have to loosen our historical standards a little, to get at the truth. I believe Judyth saw what she said she saw: Oswald working with Ferrie on a cancer weapon, the injection of prisoners, etc. She has credibility precisely because she has no government sinecure...... Her story should be taken at face value until it is DISPROVED, in my view.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela Brown Posted July 16, 2005 Share Posted July 16, 2005 With all due respect to other members at this cherished site of which I am now fortunate to be part, aren't you engaging in the kind of mindset rigidity of which you accuse others? For example, the above paragraph is a total shoot from the hip and misrepresents me and a host of others here as having some sort of prejudiced 'position' regarding Ms Baker ("the Holy Grail of the assassination" - yikes). <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Holy Toledo, Jack. I said that each new person is treated as though they were the HG of the assassination. Don't you recall the day of the Weldon nameless witness whose story was never researched, just accepted by a chosen few as being 'credible'? Wait a second -- weren't you one of the chosen few on that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nancy Eldreth Posted July 16, 2005 Share Posted July 16, 2005 There was 5 people according to Judyth to go get the time cards. This she put out to her listings of people she sends emails too. In that not one came back to give them to her. In that list was herself. She got most of them. So I went to get them and what she stated doesn't comply to the cards that show the facts. This is one of the biggest things to make me get a bit out of sorts with her. Yes, they have been posted up on Lancer all of them. What she said is two seprate stories on why her J was on the cards. Even to me alone was two seprate stories. One was well I worked late and forgot to mark it on for him because he left early. The other story is well I forgot to mark it on there but had to come back to work and no one was there in the building. OK which one is it? Either way there was no J on the 7:32 card of which she gave two stories to it. Now, if you took the time to get those cards have to sit in NARA and they kept telling you that the FBI wanted to talk to you because of the cards and he was the one to put them into your hands and tell you that this is important and not to forget to make copies of the cards wouldn't you be a bit put out. I at one point looked at the door waiting for the FBI to show up to talk to me about those cards that are NOT IN THE WARREN COMMISSION AT ALL NOT IN ANY BOOK AT ALL and not even into the Church Committee and by the way we all looked including Debra Conway over that one. She showed me what she thought it was and it was not that. SO WHAT AM I TO THINK HERE? I am told facts by Judyth that don't comply.......... to her story on which end it worked out to be........ She doesn't say OH MY GOD they changed it. She should have instead she is thanking me for getting them for her so much and that I did it. I DON'T KNOW, I KNOW I SURE AS HECK DIDN'T CHANGE THEM in fact it wasn't me to find the cards it with the FBI to find them and put them into my hands......... HE marked them with a paper strip around it and told me what ever you do don't forget to make copies of them it is important......... To be very OPEN AND HONEST WITH ALL OF YOU .............I WANTED TO RUN THEN AND THERE BEFORE I EVEN MET WITH HIM ..... They told me when I got there that the FBI wishes to talk to you over those cards before you leave the building. They put me in a room to wait for him and I waited for one half an hour. During that half an hour I kept looking at the door trying to figure out just how I get out another way from the way they brought me into that section. They told me FORGET IT YOUR NOT LEAVING HERE UNTIL YOU TALK TO HIM. Gee, I then got unconfortable. Just a bit. I didn't know what to say to him. NOW THOSE CARDS WERE NOT PUT IN THE WARREN COMMISSION FOR SOME DARN REASON AND WHAT IS IT????????? You got though all of that and then come to find out that what she says to you (if it was you to go through that) HOW WOULD YOU FEEL????? Dawn I know for sure you as an atty. would not go through that, would you? I know Pam if it was you what would you do? PAM, I contacted Jim Marrs about the question and wanted him to give it over to Marina. He put it back onto my lap. He told me to contact her and that he would not address this one to her and where abouts she lives. He also told me that this is going to take a lot of time. For some reason I think it is that for some reason it has to be me to do this. I do have a lot of trust and faith into Jim Marrs that he would know why it would have to be me to do this. YES< PAM I finally got it over to her I hope so if the man is what he says he is HER FRIEND. He says he holds her answer but wanted to know more so I filled him in. I wrote back and still waiting for now either response from him as to what is going on or what the real answer is. Marina is afraid is what it comes down too and I can't say I blame her either. _________________________________________________ Not one hundred per cent proof on this just that Judyth made a loose comment that Jimmy knows about the letter too........... This means way back in time Judyth knew facts about Files. How much I am not sure? Yes, I did ask Files and yes he knows her and her whole story and also commented she is a nice lady. I made NO COMMENT BACK ON THAT TO HIM. This info to me is new only knew from Files a couple of months ago. That is not long ago at all. From Judyth I didn't pay attention to this and if I had I would have asked her when we were talking. Since the time cards her attitude got a little off beats with me and I know the emails shows this and why. NOT MY FAULT HERS>>>>>>>> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixie Dea Posted July 16, 2005 Share Posted July 16, 2005 Shanet I have no problem with anyone believing what they choose to believe. However, I am astonished that you not only believe Judyth, but also sugggest those of us who do not believe her, should lower our standards, in order to do so. Many of us, did not just pick up on her story since the TMWKK segment was viewed. We have been following Judyth's claims for more like 5-7 years. We have seen the continuous changes and additions to her claims...plus the out right false claims. If you have not actually checked out some of her claims then you will not realize fact from fiction. Evidently John Simkin, was able to see what some of us have seen, for a long time. Those prisoners you mentioned, use to be one mental patient that was injected and who died as was anticipated. It was first even indicated she was the one that gave him the injection, but she did clarify that she didn't inject him, she just checked on his progress...to die I assume!! I was shocked when Judyth changed this to being several prisoners. Most all of her claims have eventually been changed and embellished and then later denied it was any other way and others are blamed. All of my records are related to Judyths own words and none are of someone just claiming she said something. I am sure you would be suprised at the changes. Even though Judyth has managed to insert herself in every blank area of LHO's life and managed to meet everyone even remotely mentioned in some way....Mafia, CIA, Cuban Exiles, Militants, Tulane Doctors, Texas Oilmen etc etc and in all of this at the very most, four months time. On investigation, much of this has not pannned out as claimed!!! Until such time as Judyth actually comes forth with her book and does actually have the documentation as she claims, then I, for one will not believe her.....crocodile tears do not sway me as it has some! But again, you are free to believe as you chose to, just as I am and I do not intend any antagonism toward you. Dixie ______________________________________ "Let your mind start a journey through a strange new world! Leave all thoughts of the world you knew before!" ______________________________________ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Richards Posted July 16, 2005 Share Posted July 16, 2005 Does anyone have any thoughts or perspective regarding Robert Baker? Was he ever known to have passed a comment regarding the relationship between Judyth and LHO, or did he remain unaware of any such thing? James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixie Dea Posted July 16, 2005 Share Posted July 16, 2005 Hi James.... This is what I have, which is from a posting of Dr Robert Baker, on a Newsgroup of Nov. 11, 2001. I edited out Dr Bakers email address and a couple of names mentioned. Otherwise, it is exactly as posted. This may have been his only post, although his current wife, Rose posted there for some time. Dixie ______________________________________ From: "Robert A. Baker III" Date: Friday, November 09, 2001 7:24 AM But I can give permission to have it posted. I also give at this time my wife and xxxxxx xxxxxxx permission to post anything he thinks is pertinent from his interviews with me. I suppose you have a similar situation with my ex Judy. I do not have the time to deal with following your newsgroups. Nor do I wish to be a part of the mudslinging my ex has instigated. Since xxxxxx contacted me first, and he seems trustworthy enough, I will give him the right to tell my side of the story when he deems it appropriate. In the meantime, (a bit of history) I was awarded an NSF scholarship based on my GRE scores. I chose University of Texas, because of Robert Folk. I was interested in sedimentology, and he was the leading researcher in this area. Texas was also the hometown of my Mother and I was keen on living where there was moderate weather. Robert Folk was on sabbatical when I arrived in Austin, nevertheless his research and reputation remained behind. I did my dissertation in Saltillo, Mexico. Judy was with me as we were married at the time. We came to New Orleans because I was interested in having a summer job in the oil industry. We eloped because my parent's would not have given their blessing to us as I was not finished with my schooling. It was my idea to go to New Orleans, it was my idea to do fieldwork in Mexico, and it was my idea to go to college in Austin. So because an ex-husband who just might be a bit biased makes a statement that agrees with YOUR assumptions you accept it as truth? Wow. There was no interest in the LDS (mormon) Church until we moved to Houston. The missionaries had dropped my and left a book with my ex. I happened to pick it up and became interested. She followed. I do not believe she had an affair with Oswald. She might have had an affair sometime in our early marriage. I will say if she had an affair with Oswald, that is all she had. There wasn't CIA involvement and nonsense such as she has been reporting. xxxxxx speaks for my children and their non interest in the publishing. I speak to my children, and I am their Father. I have children who are much concerned about the book and do not want to see it come to print. As for the other children, they do not have the full knowledge of how such a book can and will change their life. Back to the topic at hand, I for one would like to see this email. And if you can't post it because of a third party, you certainly can remail it to me. In any event it may be published with my permission. Can't hardly believe the context could be any worse than the stories my wife has been telling me she has found. Goodnight gentlemen. I leave my story in the hands of xxxxxx xxxxxxx, and my good wife, who gets really excited when she is reading all this nonsense. Hence the wake up call to write this note as to unveil the truth about xxxxxx contacting me. hrruummpphhhh bob ______________________________________ "Let your mind start a journey through a strange new world! Leave all thoughts of the world you knew before!" ______________________________________ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nancy Eldreth Posted July 16, 2005 Share Posted July 16, 2005 James To be frank on the matters of her family. I don't think that Judyth would wish for them to get involved. This time I will speak up for her family, on this regard. She has children and I forgot how many I know she showed me pictures of them. I didn't keep the photos and I know she loves them dearly. I know she cares about her ex spouse and worries what he thinks. I know she doesn't wish to hurt him even though they separated. This is all I will say about her in regards to her family. NO other comments will I make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Speer Posted July 16, 2005 Share Posted July 16, 2005 My gut instinct is that Judyth has issues. While she probably knew Oswald, the rest of her story is probably a fairy tale. I don't believe she's lying. I'm convinced she believes what she's been saying. The human mind is a fragile thing. When confronted with a disappointing life, many of us crack a little and invent scenarios and stories that ease our pain and make our lives seem more worthwhile and interesting. Judyth is by no means alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Gratz Posted July 16, 2005 Share Posted July 16, 2005 As always, Pat's post was well-written and intelligent. Although I have not spent considerable time on the Baker story, I suspect Pat is correct about her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nancy Eldreth Posted July 16, 2005 Share Posted July 16, 2005 Now going back and reading Dixie's post I am glad I said something on behalf of Judyth. Knowing what she told me and knowing a little on her side with this. I never knew that her spouse did put something into print ever. However, great to see the other side as well. He doesn't believe her wonder why? Did she go where I was told by her and she claimed she never was there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernice Moore Posted July 16, 2005 Share Posted July 16, 2005 (edited) Hi All: I would like to make a suggestion here... As Dixie has stated there are some of us who have spent 5 to 7 years almost ,on the Judyth story along with others.....who have also... We did not jump to any conclusions nor have we come to those without first reading all....and doing our own research....go to the alts, before you jump in with the I believe or I do not believe, and do your own research...spend some time with such and then come to your own honest conclusions...don't believe anyone..but go back to the beginning to get all of the information... I am amazed by some people who presume to know so much and appear to know so very little in this regard....people who speak up for Judyth at times,and others who do so after relying on what others have stated....and some, who have even posted on the web, that even though they know very little about the story or have not read much, they believe her ,it's not Judyth it's her story ,the information we should be regarding..not her personally, nor her personal life.....that we should be interested in.....and there are others who seem to think that being involved with her through emails, and others perhaps through some telephone calls, or both and have become involved with her in her personal life, and or replying on a Forum to her in a post makes them knowedgable about her story and the information related in it....There are many who have had tough lives out there who were in some way involved in all this, that life should not come into the picture in anyway..not in the research.....we have disregarded their private lives, we must do so with hers...some cannot....it seems....they hear a sad story and their sympathy gets in the way....sounds hard, I know but when it comes to the assassination that is the way it must be..IMO..this is not a game, at least I do not regard it as such... Being involved as above....does not make a knowledgable person out of anyone.....nor what others tell you about any of her information...there has been much dissension over her changing story...through the years...nor does reading a few posts or some of the information and then coming to a quick conclusion that they do not believe her....I thought this was all about research, and not the I thinks...??...None of these is a winning combination..and is not research..IMO... Look for her posts, going back to Sept 98, on the alts...I believe it is when it all began....her posts, not what others stated, only her information she has given....and there are many other sites as well that she has posted to over those years....you will have to search......Then study it and see for yourself, how the story grew and was added to...the twists and turns...do not rely on what other people say do you own .... As for lowering our standards, no way, the first researchers did not lower theirs, thank goodness, if they had we would not have the information we have today,IMO.. that is not even a suggestion....that is almost an insult to them after the nearly 42 years some have put into all this and others many years..that is the lazy way..... it is called perseverence, and hard work....there is no easy way....If you want to know then you must do your own, not rely on anyone to do so for you, and hand it all to you.....it is at times hard work, and can be extremely frustrating, but if we want to know the truth then there is only one way to find such...they never gave up and we must not......you must read and continually do so...if you are serious about the Assassination of J.F.Kennedy....and what followed... You all have the right to believe what you choose to and in any story you want, that is entirely up to you....you all the have the right to your opinion as I have mine... Until the book is released, if and when and it could be sooner than later...there really isn't much to discuss, other than the what ifs again..but it is up to you.. What if any role did Judyth play in all this,? one day we will know positively when the book is produced that long promised book.....but no LHO time cards,no newspaper stories about winning any awards, no documents in relation to someone else, or any government programs that we know about and no unsubstaniated memories will do it....there must be hard evdience and documentation, we expect it from others in their books and in other studies of the assassination, and we have received such......and I expect no less in Judyths...book.... IMO B... Edited July 16, 2005 by Bernice Moore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Gratz Posted July 16, 2005 Share Posted July 16, 2005 Shanet wrote: With so much of the story classified (and so many witnesses murdered) we have to loosen our historical standards a little, to get at the truth. Dixie wrote: . . . I am astonished that you not only believe Judyth, but also sugggest those of us who do not believe her, should lower our standards, in order to do so. Dixie, nothing should astonish you with respect to what Shanet believes. Lower your historical standards enough and you will believe ANYTHING! Remember Shanet once posted that he thought Sam Papich was a conspirator! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Simkin Posted July 16, 2005 Share Posted July 16, 2005 Dixie, nothing should astonish you with respect to what Shanet believes. Lower your historical standards enough and you will believe ANYTHING! Some people have lowered their standards so much that they have accepted CIA disinformation as evidence and have claimed that Fidel Castro was behind the plot to kill JFK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Gratz Posted July 16, 2005 Share Posted July 16, 2005 (edited) You refer, of course, to DC attorney and Democrat big-wig Joseph Califano; Dean Michael Kurtz of Louisinia State University; left-oriented investigative reporter Joseph Trento; the late Sen. Morgan who served on the Church Committee, as well as a member of this Forum (whose name escapes me). For your information, John, it was the "official" CIA position that Oswald acted alone. Allen Dulles helped obtain that determination on the Warren Commission. The CIA as well as the FBI made sure its agents never followed through on any evidence linking foreign governments to the assassination (as you know). No way the CIA wanted to spread the theory that Castro did it. For, unlike many right-wingers in the aftermath of the assassination who thought Castro did it because he was a big bad Communist, the CIA knew that if in fact Castro did it he did it in response to the nefarious and multiple CIA attempts to murder him, some of which even involved bloody killers from organized crime. From the perspective of the CIA, it was far better that the real assassins of JFK escape than that its murderous plots be revealed to the American public and to the world. * * * * * * * * * John, I notice you never seem to criticize members who propose truly outlandish and unsupported theories such as Shanet's "Papich theory". John, by the way, did you ever reach Victor Marchetti to see if he wanted to disavow his theory that JFK was killed by the "KGB section" within the CIA? Edited July 16, 2005 by Tim Gratz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Gratz Posted July 16, 2005 Share Posted July 16, 2005 (edited) John, lest I be accused of "hijacking" this thread, let me point out that all I did was comment that Shanet's adoption of the Baker story was consistent with his propounding several other, equally outlandish scenarios. (It is interesting, however, that the Baker story, if carefully examined, may very well be inconsistent with some of Shanet's other theories.) I never brought up the name of my neighbor ninety miles to the south until you raised that issue. So let's get back to Baker. At the very least, Fidel deserves a thread of his own. Edited July 16, 2005 by Tim Gratz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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