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Craig Lamson
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The Dillard and Powell photo comparisons.

I will leave it up to the photo analysists to determine if the boxes are in a different position in the two photos.

But I would think that if some portion of the boxes are visible in each photo, and we know the dimensions of the boxes, then it would be easy to 3D the rest of the boxes that aren't visible because we know what they look like.

If the boxes were moved within 2 - 4 minutes of the last shot, as the photos appear to indicate, and the HSCA photo analyists concluded, and Mrs. Mooneyham's statement is true, indicating a man was in the widow at that time, we now know what he was doing - moving boxes around.

Then what are the implications?

1) Since the Designated Patsy and previous primary Sixth Floor Sniper Suspect was in the 2nd floor lunchroom with DPD Marion Baker's revolver pointed at his belly at the time, we know for a fact that the person in the widow moving boxes around isn't Oswald.

2) The person Mrs. Mooneyham saw in the window who was apparently moving boxes around is therefore an additional suspect, either the real assassin or a criminal co-conspirator who is tampering with evidence.

This analysis also leads me to question

a) Why he was moving boxes around? What's the purpose?

B) How did this still unknown and still unpursued suspect know with complete certainty that he could take his good old time in leaving the scene of a crime for which he is a suspect, and would get away clean, as he did?

BK

COMMISSION EXHIBIT No. 2098

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=1140&relPageId=549

January 10, 1964

By Special Agent GEORGE T. BINNEY

LILLIAN MOONEYHAM, Deputy District Court Clerk, 95th Court, Records Building, advised that she watched the Presidential Motorcade on November 22, 1963 from the windows of the court house. She, along with Mrs. ROSE CLARK and JEANNETTE B. HOOKER, observed the Presidential Motorcade proceeding down Main Street from the window of Judge J. FRANK WILSON's courtroom, overlooking Main Street. As the motorcade passed them on Main Street, MONEYHAM, CLARK and HOOKER ran to Judge HENRY KING's courtroom window, which faces Houston Street, in time to see the motorcade turn west from Elm Street on Houston. Mrs. MOONEYHAM believes that BOB REID, Deputy District Court Clerk, Dallas, Texas, was in Judge KING's courtroom watching the motorcade at the same time as was MOONEYHAM, CLARK and HOOKER.

Mrs. MOONEYHAM heard a gunshot and observed President KENNEDY slump to the left of the seat of the car. At the time of the initial shot, Mrs. MOONEYHAM believed that a firecracker had gone off. Following the first shot, there was a slight pause and then two more shots were discharged, the second and third shots sounding closer together. Mrs. MOONEYHAM observed Mrs. KENNEDY climb up on the back of the car and her eyes were then diverted toward the left of the Presidential Motorcade on Elm Street toward a bystander, a man who had fallen to the ground.

Mrs. MOONEYHAM and Mrs. CLARK left Judge KING's courtroom and went to the office of Judge JULIEN C. MYER on the third floor of the Records Building, where they continued to observe the happenings from Judge MYER's window. From Judge Myer's window, Mrs. MOONEYHAM noted a number of bystanders running toward the cement pavilion which borders Elm Street between the railroad viaduct and the Texas School Book Depositiory (TSBD). Mrs. MOONEYHAM estimated that it was about 4 ½ to 5 minutes following the shots fired by the assassin, that she looked up towards the sixth floor of the TSBD and observed the figure of a man standing in the sixth floor window behind some cardboard boxes. This man appeared to Mrs. MOONEYHAM to be looking out of the window, however, the man was not close up to the window but was standing slightly back from it, so that Mrs. MOONEYHAM could not make out his features. She stated that she could give no description of this individual except to say that she is sure it was a man she observed, because the figure had on trousers. She could not recall the color of the trousers.

Mrs. MOONEYHAM stated she could not furnish any additional indentifying information regarding the figure she observed in this window.

Mrs. MOONEYHAM stated that following the assassination of President JOHN FITZGERALD KENNEDY, she observed a re-enactment of the assassination on two separate occasions on one day, and it was her impression that the Presidential Motorcade was going slower than the re-enactment motorcade. She stated that it was her estimation that the Presidential car was going approximately five or six miles per hour at the time of the assassination, however, she noted that her estimation was based upon her observation of the Presidential car as it moved west on Elm away from the position where she was located.

Edited by William Kelly
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Thanx Jerry. So in all instances there is a taller box. (However I have an as yet uresloved issue with Allan, being the location of the pipes. He places them too far to the left.) Best to you too. Thank you.

Hi john GOING BY memory and if serving me the pipes were moved...during the restoring of the building..that could possibly change many a research finding .if the views and measurements are now used as a given....b

Edited by Bernice Moore
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Interesting, Bernice. They obviously couldn't have been moved before the early photos which clearly locate them, though the pic that clinches it took some time to track down, yet it is part of the original sets. With proper scaling you either have to be in front of or behind the pipes, but all photos, and the web cam, is placed in front of the pipes, as if they didn't exist at all.

EDIT ADD : A message from Gary "The pipes have not been moved,,the holes in the floor are in exactly the same location as 11-22-63"

Edited by John Dolva
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The Dillard and Powell photo comparisons.

I will leave it up to the photo analysists to determine if the boxes are in a different position in the two photos.

Why in the world would you want to do that? Thats leaves you in a place where you don't really know anything but rather need to believe or disbelieve.

Why not just test it for yourself and actually learn the answer? You don't even need a camera.

Go the the park or out in your yard if it is big enough. Set up a post or use one that is already there. Place a box behind it on the ground. Start at 6 inches behide the post. Move to the various positons in relation to the post (area between the two windows) that represent the various camera positions in Dealey Plaza.

OBSERVE the position of the box in relation to the post from all positions.

Repeat with the box two feet behind the post. Observe.

Report your findings.

No need to believe, you have LEARNED for yourself.

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Craig Lamson wrote: "You got your discussion...

Now could you please show us with a graphic what is is you are talking aobut?"

I don't know if I can be any more graphic than this.

The Dillard and Powell photo comparisons and their implications.

I will leave it up to the photo analysists to determine if the boxes are in a different position in the two photos.

But I would think that if some portion of the boxes are visible in each photo, and we know the dimensions of the boxes, then it would be easy to 3D the rest of the boxes that aren't visible because we know what they look like.

If the boxes were moved within 2 - 4 minutes of the last shot, as the photos appear to indicate, and the HSCA photo analyists concluded, and Mrs. Mooneyham's statement is true, indicating a man was in the widow at that time, we now know what he was doing - moving boxes around.

Then what are the implications?

1) Since the Designated Patsy and previous primary Sixth Floor Sniper Suspect was in the 2nd floor lunchroom with DPD Marion Baker's revolver pointed at his belly at the time, we know for a fact that the person in the widow moving boxes around isn't Oswald.

2) The person Mrs. Mooneyham saw in the window who was apparently moving boxes around is therefore an additional suspect, either the real assassin or a criminal co-conspirator who is tampering with evidence.

This analysis also leads me to question

a) Why he was moving boxes around? What's the purpose?

B) How did this still unknown and still unpursued suspect know with complete certainty that he could take his good old time in leaving the scene of a crime for which he is a suspect, and would get away clean, as he did?

BK

COMMISSION EXHIBIT No. 2098

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...p;relPageId=549

....Mrs. MOONEYHAM estimated that it was about 4 ½ to 5 minutes following the shots fired by the assassin, that she looked up towards the sixth floor of the TSBD and observed the figure of a man standing in the sixth floor window behind some cardboard boxes. This man appeared to Mrs. MOONEYHAM to be looking out of the window, however, the man was not close up to the window but was standing slightly back from it, so that Mrs. MOONEYHAM could not make out his features. She stated that she could give no description of this individual except to say that she is sure it was a man she observed, because the figure had on trousers. She could not recall the color of the trousers....

Edited by William Kelly
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AFA a 3D model, and absent any information, an attempt for which I have worked out how to simply do is to recreate precicely the corner in 3D. Basically I need an exact measurement (or with error margin) of one of those bricks. The size of the box/es would help too.

The model can then be twirled around to be viewed from any direction including from inside out.

I don't feel inclined to do this. This simple information has not been forthcoming and my guesswork based on the material I have have created sucha model but the error margin is too great to tell anything. Oh, btw how wide is the tounge and groove, or was then (again, error margin)?

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The boxes on the left are not a mere 6 inches from the plane of the window as the HSCA photo panel; claims, they are probably closer to 2 feet.

You are correct,the HSCA blew it big time.

If the boxes in Powell are just 6 inchs from the glass that puts them smack up against the brick widowsill (see interior views)

A three stack of boxes is a tall as the split between the upper and lower window sections (again see the interior views)

Three stack of boxes equals 14 bricks

Split between upper and lower windows is 12 bricks

Slide a 3 stack of boxes to within 6 inches of the window in Powell and they are taller than the bottom edge of the top window. Even with the steep angle of view from the Powell position the stack of boxes would need to be nearly as high as the bottom edge of the top window...or at least into the glass panes of the bottom window.

The HSCA was wrong.

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Would Lamson, Todd or Tink please repond to this? - BK

Craig Lamson wrote: "You got your discussion...

Now could you please show us with a graphic what is is you are talking aobut?"

I don't know if I can be any more graphic than this.

The Dillard and Powell photo comparisons and their implications.

I will leave it up to the photo analysists to determine if the boxes are in a different position in the two photos.

But I would think that if some portion of the boxes are visible in each photo, and we know the dimensions of the boxes, then it would be easy to 3D the rest of the boxes that aren't visible because we know what they look like.

If the boxes were moved within 2 - 4 minutes of the last shot, as the photos appear to indicate, and the HSCA photo analyists concluded, and Mrs. Mooneyham's statement is true, indicating a man was in the widow at that time, we now know what he was doing - moving boxes around.

Then what are the implications?

1) Since the Designated Patsy and previous primary Sixth Floor Sniper Suspect was in the 2nd floor lunchroom with DPD Marion Baker's revolver pointed at his belly at the time, we know for a fact that the person in the widow moving boxes around isn't Oswald.

2) The person Mrs. Mooneyham saw in the window who was apparently moving boxes around is therefore an additional suspect, either the real assassin or a criminal co-conspirator who is tampering with evidence.

This analysis also leads me to question

a) Why he was moving boxes around? What's the purpose?

B) How did this still unknown and still unpursued suspect know with complete certainty that he could take his good old time in leaving the scene of a crime for which he is a suspect, and would get away clean, as he did?

BK

COMMISSION EXHIBIT No. 2098

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...p;relPageId=549

....Mrs. MOONEYHAM estimated that it was about 4 ½ to 5 minutes following the shots fired by the assassin, that she looked up towards the sixth floor of the TSBD and observed the figure of a man standing in the sixth floor window behind some cardboard boxes. This man appeared to Mrs. MOONEYHAM to be looking out of the window, however, the man was not close up to the window but was standing slightly back from it, so that Mrs. MOONEYHAM could not make out his features. She stated that she could give no description of this individual except to say that she is sure it was a man she observed, because the figure had on trousers. She could not recall the color of the trousers....

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OK...

Bill made me look...

Can someone please explain how anyone could think these boxes have moved?

dillardcrop.jpg

Craig, the problem as I see it is that the boxes to the left of the top box in Powell are seen within the window and yet are shown to be behind the next window in the other photos, over two feet over. This suggests the photo was taken from the right of the building, at an extreme angle. Fine.

But, the evidence photos show these boxes to be less than two feet back of the window. I think what I and others confused by this wonder is...since a view of the boxes from directly to the right of the window frame would show it to be at most two feet to the right of the frame, how is it that it appears to be MORE than two feet to the right of the frame at a shallower angle?

If you or any other photo analyst so inclined could demonstrate this we could scratch the seeming incongruity of these photos from our WTF list.

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OK...

Bill made me look...

Can someone please explain how anyone could think these boxes have moved?

dillardcrop.jpg

Craig, the problem as I see it is that the boxes to the left of the top box in Powell are seen within the window and yet are shown to be behind the next window in the other photos, over two feet over. This suggests the photo was taken from the right of the building, at an extreme angle. Fine.

But, the evidence photos show these boxes to be less than two feet back of the window. I think what I and others confused by this wonder is...since a view of the boxes from directly to the right of the window frame would show it to be at most two feet to the right of the frame, how is it that it appears to be MORE than two feet to the right of the frame at a shallower angle?

If you or any other photo analyst so inclined could demonstrate this we could scratch the seeming incongruity of these photos from our WTF list.

Actuallly Pat why don't you go out and do it? I mentioned to Kelly how one would test this. It's not a difficult test and answers from someone like you would go a long way. Besides I don't want anyone taking my word for this stuff, I want them to know from experience....

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The boxes on the left are not a mere 6 inches from the plane of the window as the HSCA photo panel; claims, they are probably closer to 2 feet.

You are correct,the HSCA blew it big time.

If the boxes in Powell are just 6 inchs from the glass that puts them smack up against the brick widowsill (see interior views)

A three stack of boxes is a tall as the split between the upper and lower window sections (again see the interior views)

Three stack of boxes equals 14 bricks

Split between upper and lower windows is 12 bricks

Slide a 3 stack of boxes to within 6 inches of the window in Powell and they are taller than the bottom edge of the top window. Even with the steep angle of view from the Powell position the stack of boxes would need to be nearly as high as the bottom edge of the top window...or at least into the glass panes of the bottom window.

The HSCA was wrong.

Well, they say the backyard photos are for real, so I guess they got that wrong too.

BK

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Thanx Jerry. So in all instances there is a taller box. (However I have an as yet uresloved issue with Allan, being the location of the pipes. He places them too far to the left.) Best to you too. Thank you.

John,

Allan also posted this at Lancer specifically about Powell and Dillard. Any thoughts about it?

I liked it but I'm a sucker for anything that resembles geometry.

Jerry

Eaglesham.jpg

Exactly right.

So why do the photos appear to indicate that the boxes labeled B are in back of different windows?

Thanks,

BK

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