Z FILM ALTERATION REVEALED

[Jack White]

The woman with the blue top in front of Rosemary seems to be carrying a camera with both hands.

Thanks David,

Playing devil's advocate once again, let's see if this leads anywhere.

The lady in the blue dress, who leads Rosemary around the wall, whom I have named as the person in the Martin film, not Betzner.

She has a camera. When she gets to the end of her run in Dorman, she heads toward the street and we pick her up in Martin.

She also ends up in very close proximation to where Betzner is, in Dorman and Z.

Who is she?

Do you believe she took a photo at that time?

chris

http://98.155.2.255:8400/E2624/Blue_Dress.png

A little confused... in your gif we don't see anyone LEADING Rosemary but following. I thought it was this thread but GMack said the woman with her hands to her head and face is Rosemary's sister and if you look at your frame 65 in the gif you see she does not have a camera. Unless I've got the wrong person...

DJ

Dorman frame, showing the woman in blue leading Rosemary Willis around the corner.

[Chris Davidson]

Jack,

You are correct.

She ends up very near Betzner's photo position in Z. This is why I thought she was Betzner in the Martin film.

I think she most likely took a photo too.

So let's see if I can build on this.

Here is Groden's uncut version stabilized. Starting with frame 135.

At frame 158 you will see frame numbers appear briefly, please pay attention at that time, to the frame shift right.

chris

[Robin Unger]

Jack .

Gary mack had a look at his best copy of the Dorman frames about 6-months ago.

He said that he beleived the woman is carrying a camera.

[Robin Unger]

Chris.

I do see a small camera jerk where the frames appear to go blurry for a split second.

Only looks like a few frames. ?

[Robin Unger]

The perspective between Zapruder and Dorman is a bitch.

It's hard to get your head around.

[Robin Unger]

Lady in long blue dress carying a large black bag, and man in black suit seen standing near the corner of Elm and Houston in Zapruder

The same people can also be seen in Dorman as Rosemary Willis starts to overtake the camera lady in the light blue top & dark blue dress

the man in the suit is partially blocked by the overhead traffic light.

Edited May 1, 2010 by Robin Unger

[Robin Unger]

Betzner in Dorman, and the man in the suit who can be seen blocking Betzners camera view in Betzner 3

[Robin Unger]

Shadows on the road in Betzner 3

[Robin Unger]

Blue dress camera Lady found in Zapruder.

Credit: Duncan

Since Linda Willis wasn't carrying a camera.

Anthony Marsh mentioned that Linda Willis may have been cupping her hands to her mouth to call out to her sister to come back !

Edited May 1, 2010 by Robin Unger

[Chris Davidson]

Shadows on the road in Betzner 3

Robin,

My match for the shadows.

If I'm correct, we need an explanation why the 2 ladies shadows between "suit guy in Betzner" and (shadows 1+2) do not appear in Betzner's photograph.

Their shadows extend continuously out past suit man into the street.

chris

Edited May 1, 2010 by Chris Davidson

[John Dolva]

draw a line from from the second pics 4 and paralell with the other shadows and you have his shadow. In Betzner the two are not photographed.

[Chris Davidson]

Chris.

I do see a small camera jerk where the frames appear to go blurry for a split second.

Only looks like a few frames. ?

Robin,

From what I remember, Groden made a copy of a supposed original back in the 60's. So I must assume that the MPI version was damaged after Groden made his copy.

We have MPI's which is supposed to be reproduced from the original.

What are the chances in approx 480 frames, that we get a major shift in frames at the point where the original was later damaged.

Chances are slim and none

That the succeeding few frames are blurry.

At 18 frames a second, the normal movement between frames is approx. 1/8-1/16 of an inch.

Watch Betzner's arm movement very closely, before cut frame 157 appears.

chris

[Chris Davidson]

From frame 157 thru 160 there appears to be a major camera shift and film damage, at the point when Betzner has raised his arms up to his face.

I believe the Betzner photo was taken somewhere between 190-195. Someone can probably come up with an exact frame.

The difference in frame count between these two occurances is:

Approx 33 frames.

chris

[Jerry Logan]

From frame 157 thru 160 there appears to be a major camera shift and film damage, at the point when Betzner has raised his arms up to his face.

I believe the Betzner photo was taken somewhere between 190-195. Someone can probably come up with an exact frame.

The difference in frame count between these two occurances is:

Approx 33 frames.

chris

Chris,

Frame 186-187. Betzner can't be as late as 190. Check Hill's location between Zapruder and Betzner.

Jerry

[John Dolva]

Chris.

I do see a small camera jerk where the frames appear to go blurry for a split second.

Only looks like a few frames. ?

Robin,

From what I remember, Groden made a copy of a supposed original back in the 60's. So I must assume that the MPI version was damaged after Groden made his copy.

We have MPI's which is supposed to be reproduced from the original.

What are the chances in approx 480 frames, that we get a major shift in frames at the point where the original was later damaged.

Chances are slim and none

That the succeeding few frames are blurry.

At 18 frames a second, the normal movement between frames is approx. 1/8-1/16 of an inch.

Watch Betzner's arm movement very closely, before cut frame 157 appears.

chris

The reason is simple. That is the time where on the original pre break the film was fracture stressed as go slow/normal/frame by frame sped through back forth back and forth on a mechanical feed projector because that is where the early reports talk of a z film that today is hard to come by. BTW the timing is not a good thing to take for granted. These were hand wound spring drives with a particular frame rate graph that is not indicative of a steady rate.

Edited May 1, 2010 by John Dolva