Z FILM ALTERATION REVEALED

[Chris Davidson]

John,

Who was working on the film after the WC was finished and before Groden made his copy?

chris

[John Dolva]

I think a lot of people tried to make partial movies from the film segments published in the 26 volumes (one of the last volumes). These do not include copies of the exciced frames. Apart from that there are multiple generation copies around. Probably a few spawns of the at least two copies made. I think the one that went to washington overnight is the one to look for. So I suppose it's really about who worked on which copy. I don't know.

Is it knowable?

[Dean Hagerman]

From frame 157 thru 160 there appears to be a major camera shift and film damage, at the point when Betzner has raised his arms up to his face.

I believe the Betzner photo was taken somewhere between 190-195. Someone can probably come up with an exact frame.

The difference in frame count between these two occurances is:

Approx 33 frames.

chris

I have always placed Betzners photo taken at Z-188 and I have always used the Betzner/Hill/Zapruder line of sight like what Jerry said

I have studied Betzner alot in the last 5 years

[Chris Davidson]

Dean,

VOLUNTARY STATEMENT. Not Under Arrest. Form No. 86

SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT

COUNTY OF DALLAS, TEXAS

Before me, the undersigned authority, on this the 22 day of November A.D. 1963 personally appeared Hugh William Betzner, Jr., Address 5922 Velasco, Dallas, Age 22 , Phone No. TA 7-9761

Deposes and says:

I was standing on Houston Street near the intersection of Elm Street. I took a picture of President Kennedy's car as it passed along Houston Street. I have an old camera. I looked down real quick and rolled the film to take the next picture. I then ran down to the corner of Elm andHouston [sic] Streets, this being the southwest corner. I was standing back from the corner and had to take the pictures through some of the crowd. I ran on down Elm a little more and President Kennedy's car was starting to go down the hill to the triple underpass. I was running trying to keep the President's car in my view and was winding my film as I ran. I was looking down at my camera to see the number of the film as I ran. I took another picture as the President's car was going down the hill on Elm Street. I started to wind my film again and I heard a loud noise. I thought that this noise was either a firecracker or a car had backfired. I looked up and it seemed like there was another loud noise in the matter of a few seconds. I looked down the street and I could see the President's car and another one and they looked like the cars were stopped. Then I saw a flash of pink like someone standing up and then sitting back down in the car. Then I ran around so I could look over the back of a monument and I either saw the following then or when I was sitting back down on the corner of Elm Street. I cannot remember exactly where I was when I saw the following:

I heard at least two shots fired and I saw what looked like a firecracker going off in the president's car. My assumption for this was because I saw fragments going up in the air. I also saw a man in either the President's car or the car behind his and someone down in one of those cars pull out what looked like a rifle. I also remember seeing what looked like a nickel revolver in someone's hand in the President's car or somewhere immediately around his car. Then the President's car sped on under the underpass. Police and a lot of spectators started running up the hill on the opposite side of the street from me to a fence of wood. I assumed that was where the shot was fired from at that time. I kept watching the crowd. Then I came around the monument over to Main Street. I walked down toward where the President's car had stopped. I saw a Police Officer and some men in plain clothes. I don't know who they were. These Police Officers and the men in plain clothes were digging around in the dirt as if they were looking for a bullet. I walked back around the monument over to Elm Street where they were digging in the dirt. I went on across the street and up the embankment to where the fence is located. By this time almost all of the people had left.

There were quite a few people down on the street and crowded around a motorcycle. I was looking around the fence as the rumor had spread that that was where the shot had come from. I started figuring where I was when I had taken the third picture and it seemed to me that the fence row would have been in the picture. I saw a group of men who looked like they might be officers and one of them turned out to be Deputy Sheriff Boone. I told him about the picture I had taken. Deputy Sheriff Boone contacted superiors and was told to bring me over to the Sheriff's Office. Deputy Sheriff Boone took my camera and asked me to wait. I waited in the Sheriff's Office and some time later, an hour or two, he brought my camera back and told me that as soon as they got through with the film and they were dry that they would give me the film. A little later he came in and gave me the negatives and told me that they were interested in a couple of pictures and implied that the negatives was all I was going to get back. To the best of my knowledge, this is all I know about this incident.

/s/ Hugh William Betzner, Jr.

Subscribed and sworn to before me on this the 22nd day of Nov A. D. 1963

/s/ Aleen Davis

Notary Public, Dallas County, Texas

How many pictures did Betzner take on the corner, before he runs down to where we see him in Z.?

And would that change in arm position indicate he changed his camera orientation from landscape to portrait?

chris

Edited May 2, 2010 by Chris Davidson

[Robin Unger]

I took a picture of President Kennedy's car as it passed along Houston Street. I have an old camera. I looked down real quick and rolled the film to take the next picture.

I then ran down to the corner of Elm andHouston [sic] Streets, this being the southwest corner. I was standing back from the corner and had to take the pictures through some of the crowd

I ran on down Elm a little more and President Kennedy's car was starting to go down the hill to the triple underpass. I was running trying to keep the President's car in my view and was winding my film as I ran. I was looking down at my camera to see the number of the film as I ran. I took another picture as the President's car was going down the hill on Elm Street. I started to wind my film again and I heard a loud noise. I thought that this noise was either a firecracker or a car had backfired.

[Dean Hagerman]

Robin

Perfect answer! Thanks for laying it out like that

[Ian Kingsbury]

Robin

Perfect answer! Thanks for laying it out like that

Robin this is a very precise way to handle the photographic along with the testimony great idea .Maybe this could work for all the graphics/testimony it would certainly show the discrepancies between the two hats off mate! .Ian

[David Lifton]

Chris,

The work you do is really quite beautiful--the graphics, the layouts, etc., I simply do not have the craft to do any of that. Anyway, I'm studying your post(s) carefully.

A question: What is your source for the Betzner photo (scan) that you are using?

If you wish, simply reply to dlifton2003@yahoo.com

Thanks.

DSL

5/2/10

[Chris Davidson]

Robin

Perfect answer! Thanks for laying it out like that

Dean,

If you have a camera handy, set up to take a picture in Landscape mode (normal position) camera horizontal.

Now turn the camera 90 degrees either left or right.

Take a look at your elbows in both positions

Now look at Betzner in Dorman taking photo #2, does it look familiar to your stance.

Betzner#2 was suppposedly shot in Portrait mode, camera vertical

Elbows are wrong for Portrait mode.

chris

[Jerry Logan]

Robin

Perfect answer! Thanks for laying it out like that

Dean,

If you have a camera handy, set up to take a picture in Landscape mode (normal position) camera horizontal.

Now turn the camera 90 degrees either left or right.

Take a look at your elbows in both positions

Now look at Betzner in Dorman taking photo #2, does it look familiar to your stance.

Betzner#2 was suppposedly shot in Portrait mode, camera vertical

Elbows are wrong for Portrait mode.

chris

Chris,

I think you're probably seeing Betzner winding his film.

No winder arm, just a dial. Most people had to move the camera into a somewhat horizontal position to advance the film.

As in "I have an old camera. I looked down real quick and rolled the film to take the next picture."

Best to you,

Jerry

Edited May 3, 2010 by Jerry Logan

[Cliff Varnell]

I believe the Betzner photo was taken somewhere between 190-195. Someone can probably come up with an exact frame.

It's generally accepted that Hugh Betzner's third photo was taken at Z186.

http://search.comcast.net/?cat=Web&con...;q=betzner+z186

[Chris Davidson]

Thanks to Jerry, Dean and Cliff for giving me the frame sync on Betzner #3.

186,187 or 188 puts me back to 153-154-155 + approx 33 frames.

Will do some frame/shift comparisons among these.

A little later.

chris

[Robin Unger]

Thanks to Jerry, Dean and Cliff for giving me the frame sync on Betzner #3.

186,187 or 188 puts me back to 153-154-155 + approx 33 frames.

Will do some frame/shift comparisons among these.

A little later.

chris

Chris

I think ( Z-187 / Z-188 ) look good. !

Robin.

[Chris Davidson]

Robin

Perfect answer! Thanks for laying it out like that

Dean,

If you have a camera handy, set up to take a picture in Landscape mode (normal position) camera horizontal.

Now turn the camera 90 degrees either left or right.

Take a look at your elbows in both positions

Now look at Betzner in Dorman taking photo #2, does it look familiar to your stance.

Betzner#2 was suppposedly shot in Portrait mode, camera vertical

Elbows are wrong for Portrait mode.

chris

Chris,

I think you're probably seeing Betzner winding his film.

No winder arm, just a dial. Most people had to move the camera into a somewhat horizontal position to advance the film.

As in "I have an old camera. I looked down real quick and rolled the film to take the next picture."

Best to you,

Jerry

Jerry,

I believe I can pinpoint the moment in time when Betzner takes his corner photo.

I'll do this step by step.

Take a look at Betzner's photo first.

The feet and arm position of Jim Towner and the leg position of his wife will be the sync points.

Not to sure about Tina yet!!!

chris

Edited May 3, 2010 by Chris Davidson

[Chris Davidson]

In this gif, I have stabilized the chair on the sidewalk to the left of Jim Towner.

If possible, play this frame by frame.

If not, take note of Jim Towner's feet as he steps into his matching position in Betzner.

Also, watch the leg movement of Mrs. Towner as she spreads her legs apart.

I'm pretty sure this is a sync with Betzner's photo.

chris

http://98.155.2.255:8400/F5AD0/Dorman1.gif

Edited May 3, 2010 by Chris Davidson