Chris Davidson Posted May 3, 2010 Author Share Posted May 3, 2010 Betzner sync frame or +1 frame. chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Davidson Posted May 3, 2010 Author Share Posted May 3, 2010 From the previous sync frame I have pointed out, approx 12 frames later, Betzner appears to pull the camera away from his face. chris http://98.155.2.255:8400/34803/BetznerMotion.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Unger Posted May 3, 2010 Share Posted May 3, 2010 From the previous sync frame I have pointed out, approx 12 frames later, Betzner appears to pull the camera away from his face.chris http://98.155.2.255:8400/34803/BetznerMotion.gif Quote: Also, watch the leg movement of Mrs. Towner as she spreads her legs apart. Absolutely chris, well spotted. Also, i never noticed before, how Betzner steps out with his left foot at the end of the GIF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Unger Posted May 3, 2010 Share Posted May 3, 2010 (edited) Dorman 3-Frame GIF stabilized at 200% normal frame size Click on the GIF twice to see it full size. Edited May 3, 2010 by Robin Unger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Davidson Posted May 3, 2010 Author Share Posted May 3, 2010 More food for though on Betzner's photo's. The Portrait vs Landscape analogy, here's a few things to consider. Betzner shoots the first one in Landscape, long limo. Seems O.K. His next photo comes after he runs to the corner. He has that long limo coming around a corner. So he's going to turn his camera and shorten his view to take this photo. Wrong Notice the framing of photo's 1+2 in regards to the limo tires. Appears it could be the same if #2 was originally a Landscape photo. Next, he runs down Elm, with the limo moving away from him. Instead of tracking the limo in Portrait mode, he's going to keep his camera turned 90 degrees and shorten his view again. Wrong The focal point of #3 is supposed to be the limo. The focal point actually is the SS car. Why not step out a little closer to the curb to get JFK in center frame. Or, maybe take the picture a little earlier, say around Z154-160. Or, just keep it in Landscape position for tracking a moving object. Or, maybe they were all shot in Landscape mode originally, but some converted to Portrait. Makes too much sense. chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Lamson Posted May 3, 2010 Share Posted May 3, 2010 More food for though on Betzner's photo's.The Portrait vs Landscape analogy, here's a few things to consider. Betzner shoots the first one in Landscape, long limo. Seems O.K. His next photo comes after he runs to the corner. He has that long limo coming around a corner. So he's going to turn his camera and shorten his view to take this photo. Wrong Notice the framing of photo's 1+2 in regards to the limo tires. Appears it could be the same if #2 was originally a Landscape photo. Next, he runs down Elm, with the limo moving away from him. Instead of tracking the limo in Portrait mode, he's going to keep his camera turned 90 degrees and shorten his view again. Wrong The focal point of #3 is supposed to be the limo. The focal point actually is the SS car. Why not step out a little closer to the curb to get JFK in center frame. Or, maybe take the picture a little earlier, say around Z154-160. Or, just keep it in Landscape position for tracking a moving object. Or, maybe they were all shot in Landscape mode originally, but some converted to Portrait. Makes too much sense. chris Or maybe he just likes shooting vertical.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Dolva Posted May 3, 2010 Share Posted May 3, 2010 (edited) ''.... Makes too much sense.'' Gotta watch out for that one. It'a killer. BTW, great thread, Chris. Edited May 3, 2010 by John Dolva Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Davidson Posted May 3, 2010 Author Share Posted May 3, 2010 Thanks John, Here he is again. Betzner ready to take his first picture on Houston St. Elbows out/ Landscape position. http://98.155.2.255:8400/BFAD2/DormanBetz2.gif chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Logan Posted May 3, 2010 Share Posted May 3, 2010 (edited) Thanks John,Here he is again. Betzner ready to take his first picture on Houston St. Elbows out/ Landscape position. http://98.155.2.255:8400/BFAD2/DormanBetz2.gif chris Chris, Outstanding job on syncing Betzner/Towner! Really first rate. What you're doing with Betzner is very suggestive, but I'm having trouble convincing myself that we're really seeing Betzner in landscape mode in all three photos. FWIW, it looks to me as though he's holding the camera the same way for 2 and 3 - but I don't know if that is vertical or horizontal. It appears to me that his arm is much more extended for #1, than #2 or #3 and we know for sure that #1 is landscape. So if I just looked at his arm position in all three photos I'd say that he's holding the camera differently in #1 - but we're not seeing him straight on for #1 and his body is extended forward for #1 in way that it's not for #s 2&3. Consequently, I'm not sure exactly what to make of @#1 v. #2 and 3. It doesn't seem unlikely to me that he'd change his orientation for the later photos because, as he said, he was going to have to shoot between people for those pictures whereas he's front and center on Houston. Number two seems like a classic rangefinder photo to me - he's captured Mrs. Kennedy directly between Tina and Mrs. Towner. That's the kind of photo you can see coming with a rangefinder and so you wait for it. For his purpose I don't see how the photo would have been better as a landscape. There are just so many unknowns that it's hard to argue from what would seem reasonable. We don't know how he usually held his camera. We don't know how long it took him to wind his film and reacquire an image. We don't know what type of framing he may have been waiting for. Catching Mrs. Kennedy between the Towner women implies he knew what he was doing, but maybe he was just very lucky. It's pretty amazing that he got the President centered under the Stemmons sign and he would have had a very nice image of the President and Mrs. Kennedy if suit man hadn't stepped into the frame. So maybe he was just waiting for the composition or maybe not. I'm not sure what to make of it all but John is dead right - it's a great thread. Best to you, Jerry Edited May 3, 2010 by Jerry Logan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack White Posted May 3, 2010 Share Posted May 3, 2010 I think Gary Mack will confirm that all three Betzner exposures were VERTICAL. Unfortunately Trask is of no help, as he omits the first shot. Jack More food for though on Betzner's photo's.The Portrait vs Landscape analogy, here's a few things to consider. Betzner shoots the first one in Landscape, long limo. Seems O.K. His next photo comes after he runs to the corner. He has that long limo coming around a corner. So he's going to turn his camera and shorten his view to take this photo. Wrong Notice the framing of photo's 1+2 in regards to the limo tires. Appears it could be the same if #2 was originally a Landscape photo. Next, he runs down Elm, with the limo moving away from him. Instead of tracking the limo in Portrait mode, he's going to keep his camera turned 90 degrees and shorten his view again. Wrong The focal point of #3 is supposed to be the limo. The focal point actually is the SS car. Why not step out a little closer to the curb to get JFK in center frame. Or, maybe take the picture a little earlier, say around Z154-160. Or, just keep it in Landscape position for tracking a moving object. Or, maybe they were all shot in Landscape mode originally, but some converted to Portrait. Makes too much sense. chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Unger Posted May 4, 2010 Share Posted May 4, 2010 (edited) I think Gary Mack will confirm that all three Betzner exposures were VERTICAL.Unfortunately Trask is of no help, as he omits the first shot. Jack More food for though on Betzner's photo's.The Portrait vs Landscape analogy, here's a few things to consider. Betzner shoots the first one in Landscape, long limo. Seems O.K. His next photo comes after he runs to the corner. He has that long limo coming around a corner. So he's going to turn his camera and shorten his view to take this photo. Wrong Notice the framing of photo's 1+2 in regards to the limo tires. Appears it could be the same if #2 was originally a Landscape photo. Next, he runs down Elm, with the limo moving away from him. Instead of tracking the limo in Portrait mode, he's going to keep his camera turned 90 degrees and shorten his view again. Wrong The focal point of #3 is supposed to be the limo. The focal point actually is the SS car. Why not step out a little closer to the curb to get JFK in center frame. Or, maybe take the picture a little earlier, say around Z154-160. Or, just keep it in Landscape position for tracking a moving object. Or, maybe they were all shot in Landscape mode originally, but some converted to Portrait. Makes too much sense. chris Chris. Your Betzner 2 is a crop This is another Crop. Now look at the car tyre framing. ? Edited May 4, 2010 by Robin Unger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Unger Posted May 4, 2010 Share Posted May 4, 2010 Does anyone have a photo of the "FULL SIZE" uncropped Betzner 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Davidson Posted May 4, 2010 Author Share Posted May 4, 2010 Thanks Robin, And while there at it, maybe tell us what happened to the original #3 negative. chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Davidson Posted May 8, 2010 Author Share Posted May 8, 2010 The version on the left is another version from MPI's "Image of an Assassination". No damage to this version. On the right is from Groden's undamaged copy. Frames 157/158. Appears to be a major frame shifting difference between the two. chris http://98.155.2.255:8400/C1D47/COMP.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Unger Posted May 8, 2010 Share Posted May 8, 2010 (edited) The version on the left is another version from MPI's "Image of an Assassination". No damage to this version.On the right is from Groden's undamaged copy. Frames 157/158. Appears to be a major frame shifting difference between the two. chris http://98.155.2.255:8400/C1D47/COMP.gif Chris. I was looking at the Betzner 1 you posted the image you posted is also croped ! Edited May 8, 2010 by Robin Unger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Please sign in to comment
You will be able to leave a comment after signing in
Sign In Now