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As they say, hindsight is always 20/20, and all tragic events in the history of mankind can undoubtedly be subjected to the same kind of list that I have created below, which is an "If Only" list pertaining to the assassination of President John F. Kennedy on November 22, 1963.

"If Only" just one or two of the things on my list below had actually occurred, then not only would a whole lot of controversy have been avoided in the wake of JFK's murder, but the 35th President very likely would have lived to give his speech at the Dallas Trade Mart on Friday, November the 22nd. If Only....

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IF ONLY .... Lee Harvey Oswald had been successful in his suicide attempt in Russia on October 21, 1959.

IF ONLY .... Bonnie Ray Williams had decided to watch the Presidential motorcade from the sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository, instead of going down to the fifth floor shortly before President Kennedy drove past the building.

IF ONLY .... TSBD Superintendent Roy Truly had not hired Lee Harvey Oswald on October 15, 1963.

IF ONLY .... Roy Truly had assigned Oswald to work at the Houston Street TSBD building, instead of the building at 411 Elm Street in Dealey Plaza.

IF ONLY .... Lee Harvey Oswald's Mannlicher-Carcano rifle had jammed at Z313.

IF ONLY .... Marina Oswald had agreed to immediately go back to Dallas to live with her husband when Lee asked her to do so on Thursday, November 21, 1963.

IF ONLY .... Linnie Mae Randle's house had been located further away from Ruth Paine's house in Irving, Texas. If Randle hadn't lived so close to the Paine home, it's very likely that Lee Oswald would never have found out about the job opening at the Texas School Book Depository.

IF ONLY .... it hadn't stopped raining in Dallas on the morning of 11/22/63, shortly prior to JFK's motorcade through the city. If the rain had continued, then the plastic bubbletop roof would have been affixed to the President's 1961 Lincoln Continental limousine as JFK was being driven through the streets of Dallas, which might have deflected the bullets away from the President's body. The roof might have also deterred Oswald from firing any rifle shots at the car in the first place (if Oswald had been of the opinion that the bubbletop roof was bullet-proof, which it wasn't).

IF ONLY .... Arnold Rowland had alerted a policeman about the gunman he saw on the west end of the Book Depository Building at approximately 12:15 PM on 11/22/63.

IF ONLY .... Buell Wesley Frazier had been unable to drive Lee Harvey Oswald to work on the morning of November 22nd. What would Oswald have done then? Would he have carried his rifle package on a bus? (Perhaps.) Or in a taxicab? (I doubt it.)

Or would he have awakened Ruth Paine and asked her to drive him to work, with the 38-inch-long brown paper package in the back of Mrs. Paine's Chevrolet station wagon? (I very much doubt it. It's unlikely he would have wanted to use the "curtain rod" lie in front of Mrs. Paine. Of course, if Ruth asked "What's in the package, Lee?", Lee could have always thought up a quick lie on the spur of the moment, I suppose. He could always tell Ruth that Marina made him an extra-large submarine sandwich for lunch that day.)

IF ONLY .... Lee Oswald's paper bag had ripped open on the way to work. If it had ripped, it might have allowed Wesley Frazier to see what was inside the bag (a rifle), and it might have made Oswald think twice about using that now-exposed weapon as an instrument in a Presidential assassination attempt a few hours later.

IF ONLY .... Police Officer Marrion Baker had detained Lee Harvey Oswald on the second floor of the TSBD. If Baker hadn't turned Oswald loose in the lunchroom, the life of policeman J.D. Tippit would have been spared.

IF ONLY .... Lee Harvey Oswald had been caught in the act of attempting to kill retired General Edwin A. Walker on April 10, 1963.

IF ONLY .... Lee Harvey Oswald had been successful in his attempt to reach Cuba and/or the Soviet Union during his trip to Mexico City in September 1963. If he would had gone to Cuba or Russia in September, would he have returned to Dallas, Texas, in November to shoot President Kennedy?

IF ONLY .... Ruth Paine had not met Lee and Marina Oswald at a party in February of 1963.

IF ONLY .... the Texas Employment Commission had attempted to contact Lee Harvey Oswald just a day or two earlier than they did, to inform Oswald of a job opening at Trans-Texas Airways (a job that would have paid Oswald $310 per month, which is over $100 more per month than his TSBD salary).

Records indicate that the Texas Employment Commission attempted to contact Oswald by telephone on October 15, 1963, which was the exact same day he was hired by Roy Truly at the Book Depository.

Records further indicate that the TEC last attempted to contact Oswald about the Trans-Texas job at 10:30 AM on October 16, 1963, which was the same day Oswald began working at the TSBD. [Also see Warren Report, Page 247.]

IF ONLY .... Bullet CE399 hadn't fallen out of Governor John Connally's left leg. If that bullet had remained in Connally's thigh, instead of falling onto his hospital stretcher, it would have saved millions of words from being written by conspiracy theorists about the bullet having been "planted".

IF ONLY .... Karen Carlin had waited for one more hour to call Jack Ruby on November 24, 1963. Such a delay on Carlin's behalf would have meant Ruby could never have shot Oswald as he did in the basement of Dallas City Hall.

IF ONLY .... One more customer had been in front of Jack Ruby at the Western Union office.

IF ONLY .... Lee Harvey Oswald hadn't taken the time to put on that black sweater before being escorted into the basement.

IF ONLY .... Jack Ruby had not owned a revolver.

IF ONLY .... Jacqueline Kennedy had pushed her husband down inside the limousine before the fatal bullet had a chance to hit its mark.

If only.

David Von Pein

August 2010

Edited by David Von Pein
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IF ONLY .... Police Officer Marrion Baker had detained Lee Harvey Oswald on the second floor of the TSBD. If Baker hadn't turned Oswald loose in the lunchroom, the life of policeman J.D. Tippit would have been spared

What reason would Baker have had to hold Oswald?

In fact Dave all you need to do is listen to what Baker says to Gerry Spence in the "On Trial" videos that you have up on Youtube

"Was Oswald acting like someone who just shot the president?"

You already know what Bakers answer was

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What reason would Baker have had to hold Oswald?

Well, as I say, hindsight is certainly always pretty much twenty-twenty -- but, good grief, Officer Baker pretty much KNEW that the assassin was still in the TSBD when he rushed into that building within a minute of the assassination. He saw the pigeons flying off the roof and thought the shooter was probably up on the roof.

So, quite obviously, he knew the assassin MUST still be inside (unless the killer committed hari-kari after shooting the President by jumping to his death from the roof).

Therefore, Baker SHOULD HAVE NOT LET ANYONE LEAVE THE BUILDING--PERIOD.

And I'm guessing that Marrion L. Baker has probably had nightmares about letting Oswald leave that second-floor lunchroom that day. Because if Baker had held onto Oswald, then Officer Tippit would certainly have lived to see the next day's sunrise.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMnzlejvijI

Edited by David Von Pein
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So Baker would have been looking for an assassin on or near the roof

Not an employee on the second floor lunchroom who was calm, collected, not out of breath, not sweating

Kind of like if he had been sitting in the 2nd floor lunchroom the whole time

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Baker shouldn't have permitted anybody to leave the building at that time.

Of course, Baker is only ONE cop. He couldn't very well seal the whole building by himself by 12:31 PM; so that's another thing to take into account.

Edited by David Von Pein
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As they say, hindsight is always 20/20, and all tragic events in the history of mankind can undoubtedly be subjected to the same kind of list that I have created below, which is an "If Only" list pertaining to the assassination of President John F. Kennedy on November 22, 1963.

"If Only" just one or two of the things on my list below had actually occurred, then not only would a whole lot of controversy have been avoided in the wake of JFK's murder, but the 35th President very likely would have lived to give his speech at the Dallas Trade Mart on Friday, November the 22nd. If Only....

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

IF ONLY .... Lee Harvey Oswald had been successful in his suicide attempt in Russia on October 21, 1959.

IF ONLY .... Bonnie Ray Williams had decided to watch the Presidential motorcade from the sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository, instead of going down to the fifth floor shortly before President Kennedy drove past the building.

IF ONLY .... TSBD Superintendent Roy Truly had not hired Lee Harvey Oswald on October 15, 1963.

IF ONLY .... Roy Truly had assigned Oswald to work at the Houston Street TSBD building, instead of the building at 411 Elm Street in Dealey Plaza.

IF ONLY .... Lee Harvey Oswald's Mannlicher-Carcano rifle had jammed at Z313.

IF ONLY .... Marina Oswald had agreed to immediately go back to Dallas to live with her husband when Lee asked her to do so on Thursday, November 21, 1963.

IF ONLY .... Linnie Mae Randle's house had been located further away from Ruth Paine's house in Irving, Texas. If Randle hadn't lived so close to the Paine home, it's very likely that Lee Oswald would never have found out about the job opening at the Texas School Book Depository.

IF ONLY .... it hadn't stopped raining in Dallas on the morning of 11/22/63, shortly prior to JFK's motorcade through the city. If the rain had continued, then the plastic bubbletop roof would have been affixed to the President's 1961 Lincoln Continental limousine as JFK was being driven through the streets of Dallas, which might have deflected the bullets away from the President's body. The roof might have also deterred Oswald from firing any rifle shots at the car in the first place (if Oswald had been of the opinion that the bubbletop roof was bullet-proof, which it wasn't).

IF ONLY .... Arnold Rowland had alerted a policeman about the gunman he saw on the west end of the Book Depository Building at approximately 12:15 PM on 11/22/63.

IF ONLY .... Buell Wesley Frazier had been unable to drive Lee Harvey Oswald to work on the morning of November 22nd. What would Oswald have done then? Would he have carried his rifle package on a bus? (Perhaps.) Or in a taxicab? (I doubt it.)

Or would he have awakened Ruth Paine and asked her to drive him to work, with the 38-inch-long brown paper package in the back of Mrs. Paine's Chevrolet station wagon? (I very much doubt it. It's unlikely he would have wanted to use the "curtain rod" lie in front of Mrs. Paine. Of course, if Ruth asked "What's in the package, Lee?", Lee could have always thought up a quick lie on the spur of the moment, I suppose. He could always tell Ruth that Marina made him an extra-large submarine sandwich for lunch that day.)

IF ONLY .... Lee Oswald's paper bag had ripped open on the way to work. If it had ripped, it might have allowed Wesley Frazier to see what was inside the bag (a rifle), and it might have made Oswald think twice about using that now-exposed weapon as an instrument in a Presidential assassination attempt a few hours later.

IF ONLY .... Police Officer Marrion Baker had detained Lee Harvey Oswald on the second floor of the TSBD. If Baker hadn't turned Oswald loose in the lunchroom, the life of policeman J.D. Tippit would have been spared.

IF ONLY .... Lee Harvey Oswald had been caught in the act of attempting to kill retired General Edwin A. Walker on April 10, 1963.

IF ONLY .... Lee Harvey Oswald had been successful in his attempt to reach Cuba and/or the Soviet Union during his trip to Mexico City in September 1963. If he would had gone to Cuba or Russia in September, would he have returned to Dallas, Texas, in November to shoot President Kennedy?

IF ONLY .... Ruth Paine had not met Lee and Marina Oswald at a party in February of 1963.

IF ONLY .... the Texas Employment Commission had attempted to contact Lee Harvey Oswald just a day or two earlier than they did, to inform Oswald of a job opening at Trans-Texas Airways (a job that would have paid Oswald $310 per month, which is over $100 more per month than his TSBD salary).

Records indicate that the Texas Employment Commission attempted to contact Oswald by telephone on October 15, 1963, which was the exact same day he was hired by Roy Truly at the Book Depository.

Records further indicate that the TEC last attempted to contact Oswald about the Trans-Texas job at 10:30 AM on October 16, 1963, which was the same day Oswald began working at the TSBD. [Also see Warren Report, Page 247.]

IF ONLY .... Bullet CE399 hadn't fallen out of Governor John Connally's left leg. If that bullet had remained in Connally's thigh, instead of falling onto his hospital stretcher, it would have saved millions of words from being written by conspiracy theorists about the bullet having been "planted".

IF ONLY .... Karen Carlin had waited for one more hour to call Jack Ruby on November 24, 1963. Such a delay on Carlin's behalf would have meant Ruby could never have shot Oswald as he did in the basement of Dallas City Hall.

IF ONLY .... One more customer had been in front of Jack Ruby at the Western Union office.

IF ONLY .... Lee Harvey Oswald hadn't taken the time to put on that black sweater before being escorted into the basement.

IF ONLY .... Jack Ruby had not owned a revolver.

IF ONLY .... Jacqueline Kennedy had pushed her husband down inside the limousine before the fatal bullet had a chance to hit its mark.

If only.

David Von Pein

August 2010

IF ONLY .... Lone Nutters had a just a semblance of honesty...

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As they say, hindsight is always 20/20, and all tragic events in the history of mankind can undoubtedly be subjected to the same kind of list that I have created below, which is an "If Only" list pertaining to the assassination of President John F. Kennedy on November 22, 1963.

"If Only" just one or two of the things on my list below had actually occurred, then not only would a whole lot of controversy have been avoided in the wake of JFK's murder, but the 35th President very likely would have lived to give his speech at the Dallas Trade Mart on Friday, November the 22nd. If Only....

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If Only

...

David Von Pein

August 2010

yuck-yuck... ever notice lone nuts can't deal with 'real' case evidence debate? The best they can do is IF ONLY! (Nutters simply quote the defunct Warren Commission Report, that's it? oh-my) Carry on hon!

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yuck-yuck... ever notice lone nuts can't deal with 'real' case evidence debate? The best they can do is IF ONLY! (Nutters simply quote the defunct Warren Commission Report, that's it? oh-my) Carry on hon!

IF ONLY...Well that pretty much sums up the case for Z film alteration davie.

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Nothing would have changed, since Lee Harvey Oswald didn't kill anybody that day and was just what he claimed to be, a Patsy.

Those actually responsible for murdering the President only had to know two things - JFK was not going to leave Dealey Plaza alive, and that Lee Harvey Oswald was going to be blamed for his assassination.

BK

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IF ONLY .... Lone Nutters had a just a semblance of honesty...

Bernie - please. Take his arguments apart but do not bring honesty into it - even if it is just a joke. Thanks.

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Baker shouldn't have permitted anybody to leave the building at that time.

Of course, Baker is only ONE cop. He couldn't very well seal the whole building by himself by 12:31 PM; so that's another thing to take into account.

Dave

None of the others were armed were they?.And there were plenty of officers on hand outside even superman James Powell was on his way in .Why not stop the guy nearest the 6th floor its like he knew where the shots came from?.Perhaps the chap in the brown jacket on the 4th floor oh no he just let him go at the entrance.

If Only we could tie Baker down to which testimony he prefers or the one that suits you.

Ian

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As they say, hindsight is always 20/20, and all tragic events in the history of mankind can undoubtedly be subjected to the same kind of list that I have created below, which is an "If Only" list pertaining to the assassination of President John F. Kennedy on November 22, 1963.

"If Only" just one or two of the things on my list below had actually occurred, then not only would a whole lot of controversy have been avoided in the wake of JFK's murder, but the 35th President very likely would have lived to give his speech at the Dallas Trade Mart on Friday, November the 22nd. If Only....

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

IF ONLY .... Lee Harvey Oswald had been successful in his suicide attempt in Russia on October 21, 1959.

IF ONLY .... Bonnie Ray Williams had decided to watch the Presidential motorcade from the sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository, instead of going down to the fifth floor shortly before President Kennedy drove past the building.

IF ONLY .... TSBD Superintendent Roy Truly had not hired Lee Harvey Oswald on October 15, 1963.

IF ONLY .... Roy Truly had assigned Oswald to work at the Houston Street TSBD building, instead of the building at 411 Elm Street in Dealey Plaza.

IF ONLY .... Lee Harvey Oswald's Mannlicher-Carcano rifle had jammed at Z313.

IF ONLY .... Marina Oswald had agreed to immediately go back to Dallas to live with her husband when Lee asked her to do so on Thursday, November 21, 1963.

IF ONLY .... Linnie Mae Randle's house had been located further away from Ruth Paine's house in Irving, Texas. If Randle hadn't lived so close to the Paine home, it's very likely that Lee Oswald would never have found out about the job opening at the Texas School Book Depository.

IF ONLY .... it hadn't stopped raining in Dallas on the morning of 11/22/63, shortly prior to JFK's motorcade through the city. If the rain had continued, then the plastic bubbletop roof would have been affixed to the President's 1961 Lincoln Continental limousine as JFK was being driven through the streets of Dallas, which might have deflected the bullets away from the President's body. The roof might have also deterred Oswald from firing any rifle shots at the car in the first place (if Oswald had been of the opinion that the bubbletop roof was bullet-proof, which it wasn't).

IF ONLY .... Arnold Rowland had alerted a policeman about the gunman he saw on the west end of the Book Depository Building at approximately 12:15 PM on 11/22/63.

IF ONLY .... Buell Wesley Frazier had been unable to drive Lee Harvey Oswald to work on the morning of November 22nd. What would Oswald have done then? Would he have carried his rifle package on a bus? (Perhaps.) Or in a taxicab? (I doubt it.)

Or would he have awakened Ruth Paine and asked her to drive him to work, with the 38-inch-long brown paper package in the back of Mrs. Paine's Chevrolet station wagon? (I very much doubt it. It's unlikely he would have wanted to use the "curtain rod" lie in front of Mrs. Paine. Of course, if Ruth asked "What's in the package, Lee?", Lee could have always thought up a quick lie on the spur of the moment, I suppose. He could always tell Ruth that Marina made him an extra-large submarine sandwich for lunch that day.)

IF ONLY .... Lee Oswald's paper bag had ripped open on the way to work. If it had ripped, it might have allowed Wesley Frazier to see what was inside the bag (a rifle), and it might have made Oswald think twice about using that now-exposed weapon as an instrument in a Presidential assassination attempt a few hours later.

IF ONLY .... Police Officer Marrion Baker had detained Lee Harvey Oswald on the second floor of the TSBD. If Baker hadn't turned Oswald loose in the lunchroom, the life of policeman J.D. Tippit would have been spared.

IF ONLY .... Lee Harvey Oswald had been caught in the act of attempting to kill retired General Edwin A. Walker on April 10, 1963.

IF ONLY .... Lee Harvey Oswald had been successful in his attempt to reach Cuba and/or the Soviet Union during his trip to Mexico City in September 1963. If he would had gone to Cuba or Russia in September, would he have returned to Dallas, Texas, in November to shoot President Kennedy?

IF ONLY .... Ruth Paine had not met Lee and Marina Oswald at a party in February of 1963.

IF ONLY .... the Texas Employment Commission had attempted to contact Lee Harvey Oswald just a day or two earlier than they did, to inform Oswald of a job opening at Trans-Texas Airways (a job that would have paid Oswald $310 per month, which is over $100 more per month than his TSBD salary).

Records indicate that the Texas Employment Commission attempted to contact Oswald by telephone on October 15, 1963, which was the exact same day he was hired by Roy Truly at the Book Depository.

Records further indicate that the TEC last attempted to contact Oswald about the Trans-Texas job at 10:30 AM on October 16, 1963, which was the same day Oswald began working at the TSBD. [Also see Warren Report, Page 247.]

IF ONLY .... Bullet CE399 hadn't fallen out of Governor John Connally's left leg. If that bullet had remained in Connally's thigh, instead of falling onto his hospital stretcher, it would have saved millions of words from being written by conspiracy theorists about the bullet having been "planted".

IF ONLY .... Karen Carlin had waited for one more hour to call Jack Ruby on November 24, 1963. Such a delay on Carlin's behalf would have meant Ruby could never have shot Oswald as he did in the basement of Dallas City Hall.

IF ONLY .... One more customer had been in front of Jack Ruby at the Western Union office.

IF ONLY .... Lee Harvey Oswald hadn't taken the time to put on that black sweater before being escorted into the basement.

IF ONLY .... Jack Ruby had not owned a revolver.

IF ONLY .... Jacqueline Kennedy had pushed her husband down inside the limousine before the fatal bullet had a chance to hit its mark.

If only.

David Von Pein

August 2010

It is interesting to ask questions of the "if only" and "what if" type when looking it historic events. With regards to the Kennedy assassination you could ask "what if the Chicago plot had succeeded?" There was a plot to assassinate President Kennedy when he visited Chicago on the 2nd day of November 1963. However, the FBI were tipped off about the plot and they informed the Secret Service. The Secret Service then worked with the Chicago police to arrest the plotters and stop the assassination from happening. What would have happened if the FBI had never been tipped off?

The assassination might have happened in Chicago and it appears that the blame would have fallen upon an ex-marine who was stationed at a U2 base in Japan at one time, who had extreme political views, who started in new job in the summer of 1963 working in a warehouse that had windows overlooking the road where the Presidential parade would pass a few months later. Exactly the same as it was for Lee Harvey Oswald in reality, only in this case the man taking the blame would be Thomas Arthur Vallee.

Going back to the original thread, we can ask what would have happened if it had rained all day, the bubble top had been used and the assassination attempt abandoned? Nobody knows, but I would guess that a few weeks later President Kennedy would be shot in his Limousine on a parade route through another city. The man blamed would probably be an ex-marine who once served at a U2 base in Japan, had extreme political views and who just happened to work in a warehouse over looking the parade route. His name would not be Thomas Arthur Vallee or Lee Harvey Oswald but I expect he would have three names and the Warren Commission would have named him as the lone assassin.

I expect that Mr Von Pein would be trying to persuade us that this man acted alone!

There were powerful people at work with regards to the assassination of President Kennedy. If the Dealey Plaza shooting had not gone ahead they would have got him eventually, one way or another.

Edited by Tony Austin
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