The CE399 Planters

[Mark Knight]

Now, I don't consider myself a "heavyweight" researcher like Jim D. and DVP consider themselves. I just know the facts that I've read.

And DPD chief Jesse Curry, the man whose job it was to uncover the evidence that would prove Lee Harvey Oswald guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, said, even a few years after the assassination, that no one could place Lee Harvey Oswald in the southeast window of the sixth floor of the TSBD with the 6.5mm Mannlicher-Carcano in his hands at the time the bullets were fired.

I'm not a lawyer, but the standard for conviction in America is NOT what a preponderance of evidence points to; the standard for conviction in American jurisprudence is that the prosecutor convince 12 jurors that the accused is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. And as Chief Curry states the case, there IS reasonable doubt that Lee Harvey Oswald fired "that rifle" from "that window" at that time.

So long as that reasonable doubt exists, Oswald's guilt will always be a matter for debate.

As for CE399, I'm inclined to believe Tom Purvis' theory. If there was no bullet impact in the limb of the oak tree in front of the TSBD, there would be no reason for those investigating the murder to saw them off the tree...as removal of the limbs for any other purpose alters the crime scene and actually hampers the investigation.

As I said, I'm no heavyweight researcher. I just know these few facts.

[Michael Hogan]

Plus: Why would there be ANY need to "plant" any shells in the Nest at all? You REALLY think that NOBODY was firing from the one and only rifle THAT THE GOOFBALL PLOTTERS WERE TRYING TO FRAME OSWALD WITH, Jimbo? More insanity from Patsy Framing University, it seems.

Here are the minutes from the final meeting at Patsy Univ. in Nov. '63:

Hey, guys! I've got a great idea! Let's take the time to set up this schnook named Oswald by putting together fake photos of him and by impersonating him all over Dallas in places that don't mean a Goddamn thing relating to this assassination---and then let's do something REALLY great! Let's NOT USE OSWALD'S RIFLE AT ALL ON ASSASSINATION DAY!! How 'bout it, guys? You with me?!

It doesn't get any more lightweight than this. David would get booted off the freshman debating team at Mooresville High School for this kind of stuff.

Yeah, common sense never has appealed to you conspiracy mongers, has it Mike?

David, if you haven't learned what common sense is by now, it's unlikely you ever will.

Even your hero Vincent Bugliosi would not want to be associated with much of the silliness that comes from your keyboard.

[Michael Hogan]

Cliff:

Milicent and Pat have postulated that the trajectory of a bullet from the wound that Speer has found-near the EOP-- may have left a fragment out the neck.

I fI am not getting this right, Pat will correct me.

Milicent Cranor has an article on this at the Lancer site.

Jim,

Do you have a link to Cranor's article? I couldn't find it on Lancer.

This may be it: http://www.history-matters.com/essays/jfkmed/TrajectoryOfaLie/TrajectoryOfaLie.htm

[Cliff Varnell]

This may be it: http://www.history-matters.com/essays/jfkmed/TrajectoryOfaLie/TrajectoryOfaLie.htm

Thanks Michael.

I've read that artcile before but I don't seem to remember the stuff about a fragment coming out the throat being in there. I'll check it again...

I think Jim meant the theory proposed by Josiah Thompson in Six Seconds in Dallas.

Cranor posits a possibility that the back wound was an exit, but that presents

a world of trajectory problems all its own.

[Bernice Moore]

Now, I don't consider myself a "heavyweight" researcher like Jim D. and DVP consider themselves. I just know the facts that I've read.

And DPD chief Jesse Curry, the man whose job it was to uncover the evidence that would prove Lee Harvey Oswald guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, said, even a few years after the assassination, that no one could place Lee Harvey Oswald in the southeast window of the sixth floor of the TSBD with the 6.5mm Mannlicher-Carcano in his hands at the time the bullets were fired.

I'm not a lawyer, but the standard for conviction in America is NOT what a preponderance of evidence points to; the standard for conviction in American jurisprudence is that the prosecutor convince 12 jurors that the accused is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. And as Chief Curry states the case, there IS reasonable doubt that Lee Harvey Oswald fired "that rifle" from "that window" at that time.

So long as that reasonable doubt exists, Oswald's guilt will always be a matter for debate.

As for CE399, I'm inclined to believe Tom Purvis' theory. If there was no bullet impact in the limb of the oak tree in front of the TSBD, there would be no reason for those investigating the murder to saw them off the tree...as removal of the limbs for any other purpose alters the crime scene and actually hampers the investigation.

As I said, I'm no heavyweight researcher. I just know these few facts.

HI MARK IF THIS IS IN REGARD TO WERE THERE CHANGES TO THE CRIME SCENE SOON AFTER, PLEASE READ EMMET HUDSON THE GROUNDS KEEPER'S INFORMATION,WHO WAS ON THE STEPS THAT DAY, HE COMMENTS ON THE FACT THAT THERE WERE MANY CHANGES....ANDTHEY ALSO CONTINUED DOWN THROUGH THE YEARS HAVING MANY SINCE, THANKS B I BELIEVE IT IS WITHIN HERE....http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/wit.htm

Edited September 23, 2010 by Bernice Moore

[Todd W. Vaughan]

Oh Blakey, Lutz and McAdams. Why not throw in Todd Vaughn. I'll take that to court any day.

BTW, this Champagne, Lutz BS is right out of RH--a book that I think after that long thread we had is--to be kind-- rather suspect.

But if you want to see just how far out VB and Lutz are on the ballistics issue, they say they could fire 3 shots from the MC in 3.8 seconds.

I don't know how Davey Boy left that out of his rant..

Jim,

What exactly do you mean by “Why not throw in Todd Vaughn (sic)”?

Do you doubt me when I say that I’ve obtained several dented cartridge cases when firing my Carcano?

Todd

[Michael Clark]

On 9/22/2010 at 4:37 PM, Bernice Moore said:

HI MARK IF THIS IS IN REGARD TO WERE THERE CHANGES TO THE CRIME SCENE SOON AFTER, PLEASE READ EMMET HUDSON THE GROUNDS KEEPER'S INFORMATION,WHO WAS ON THE STEPS THAT DAY, HE COMMENTS ON THE FACT THAT THERE WERE MANY CHANGES....ANDTHEY ALSO CONTINUED DOWN THROUGH THE YEARS HAVING MANY SINCE, THANKS B I BELIEVE IT IS WITHIN HERE....http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/wit.htm

Can anyone explain what is going on with crossed-out posts like this? I have been trying to figure it out for a while, and I figured I would just ask. Some times I see this in a new post and I am wondering why it doesn't just get edited before posting. Is there a rhetorical device being used that I am missing?

Cheers,

Michael

Edited March 26, 2017 by Michael Clark

[Michael Clark]

And now the reason for this bump...

Bullets of a smaller caliber can be fired from a larger bored gun by using a sobot. For example, I used .45 caliber bullets in my .50 caliber muzzleloader, using a sabot.

Likewise, I would think, and barring other fitment issues, a 6.5 mm bullet could be fired from a larger (.30 cal.?) rifle, using a sobot.

More to the point, a pre-fired 6.5 mm bullet could be re-used, with a sabot, in a gun with a larger bore. That bullet could then be only identified as having been fired from the 6.5 mm weapon.

Just a thought,

Cheers,

Michael

 

Edited March 26, 2017 by Michael Clark