Some new Movie film alleged to be LHO and Sturgis

[Jim Phelps]

On the issues of EH Hunt as the benchwarmer on the JFK hit, it fits because Gerry Droller was driving. Droller didn't mind using LHO. Droller's buddy Frank Sturgis was JBS and CAP

There is an issues of folks working for the Agency and those working for the Company, one is US Govt Domestic and the other Foreign/PIE.

A CIA that wanted to spy on Russia was not interested in shooting down FGP, but PIE oriented intentions were to stop the Peaceful Coexistance Plans of Russia as their games for world dominance were not complete.

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http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/alliance.pdf

http://www.doewatch.com/jb/

Deadly Alliance By Judyth Vary Baker with Howard Platzman, Ph. D.

OUTLINE OF THE CONSPIRACY

Note: Downed U-2 Pilot Gary Powers has stated his belief that Oswald had the information needed to bring him down.

New information: Mr. B may not have been Phillips. Another CIA figure, Frank Bender, one alias of Gerry Droller, was known inside the agency as Mr. B. He was posted to Mexico City at the same time as Phillips. The record says that Droller worked for the OSS during the war, but there are indications he actually worked on biological weapons for the Nazis.

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[Thomas Graves]

[...]
I don't want to sound like I think everybody is missing the boat on this, but when you get to, I believe it is the youtube site, [there was a second version of this clip] someone wrote that the "Oswald" character is standing "behind the man with the gun." and in that short clip, there is only one second in the film where "he" faces the camera, which is at eleven seconds into the video [...] Also when you get into the youtube site, I saw something that led me to believe that the video Mr. Phelps [...] posted is taken from the beginning of a 1969 Italian documentary, roughly translated as "I Due Kennedy or The Two Kennedy's." That video is very compelling, it is full of, apparently, original footage from Dealey Plaza on the day of the assassination, from what I can tell...I haven't had time to go through......I Due Kennedy, it is approximately one hour and fifty minutes long and recorded in Italian. But I plan on viewing it over the holidays.
See
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=qLpfVBiQi-Q#t=3893s

Here is the video Mr. Phelps turned us onto in post #1, this thread:
http://rechtiskrom.w...-frank-sturgis/

--Tommy

The 1969 Italian documentary Two Kennedy's. The clip we're talking about starts just around 1:04:50. Whoever it is (LHO?) that's standing behind Sturgis (who has the upraised pistol) sure doesn't want to be caught on film. Look how fast he turns his head away and bends down twice behind the others. Sturgis even turns to look at him and (maybe) warns him to hide.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=qLpfVBiQi-Q#t=3893s

--Tommy

P.S. It looks like Oswald had at least three helpers passing out flyers. Dig the helper wearing the black bermuda shorts at 1:06:44. Edited January 8, 2014 by Thomas Graves

[Kathleen Collins]

This item appears to be sourced from Wim D. and/or Scott K.

Opinions solicited for this:

http://rechtiskrom.w...-frank-sturgis/

The Lee Harvey Oswald figure is too tall to be Harvey, shot by Ruby. This may be Lee Oswald who looked a lot like Harvey. But sometimes it looks like Robert Oswald.

[Thomas Graves]

"Dupe"

--Tommy

Edited July 10, 2012 by Thomas Graves

[Thomas Graves]

This is the man Thomas refers to in an earlier post.

He was literally viewable for a second during the Italian documentary (at 1hr 04m 54 secs) but intriguingly ducked his head down the instant he saw the camera.

Thanks, Mark. Wish I had the technical abilities you have.

Now if the camera-shy guy standing behind the dude with the pistol (Frank Sturgis) isn't LHO (and now I don't think it is) then who is it? Some Corsican brought in for "the job"? Roy Hargraves? Some other member of Interpen?

I can easily imagine Sturgis' turning and telling the guy. "Get down! You're on camera!!" Which would suggest that this guy was one important dude, since Sturgis didn't want him to be photographed.

--Tommy

Edited July 11, 2012 by Thomas Graves

[Thomas Graves]

And a group shot:

Thanks, Mark.

Here's an uncropped capture from 104:54 of the Italian film "I Due Kennedy" (The Two Kennedys).

I used to think the skinny dude on the far left was Jean Souetre, but now I think the guy looks more like Sturgis' old buddy (and his former military commander in Castro's Cuba), Pedro Diaz Lanz.

I also used to think the guy partially visible behind Frank Sturgis (with pistol raised near his head) might be Oswald, but now I don't think so. Doesn't look like him. Whoever it was, when you watch the video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLpfVBiQi-Q you can see that Sturgis apparently didn't want the guy to appear on the film, because he ducks out of sight when Sturgis turns and says something to him.

The fifth guy from the left with the sunglasses and receding hairline is, I believe, Bernard Barker.

Marita Lorenz is pretty obvious.

Standing next to her, wearing sunglasses and a dark shirt, is Isidro Borjas.

Sitting down on the right is, I believe, Gerry Patrick Hemming, very cleverly hiding his all-too-easily-identifying height.

Not visible in this "capture" but visible a couple of seconds later in the video is "Frank Bender" (real name Gerry Droller), standing behind Sturgis and wearing army fatigues, fatigue hat, and glasses.

Thanks to Scott Kaiser for pointing out Bender / Droller in post #31, this thread.

Scott said he thinks this might have been a meeting of Operation 40 people or Sturgis' International Communist Brigade.

--Tommy

Edited January 8, 2014 by Thomas Graves

[Larry Hancock]

It really is amazing how these things keep resurfacing year after year. Then again its been perhaps three years before we' ve been though this same film cycle - James may remember better than I.

In any event, its really old news and goes back to a series of PR events that Sturgis and Hemming were holding to try and raise money. They invited photographers, did "training" sessions

like parachute drops and invited the press - some of the jumps came out rather badly as I recall. This is during a period in which Sturgis and Hemming were promoting their "brigade" which never

existed per se but was a nice PR tag line for their fund raising. Being of strong character the two could never hang together for too long and of course Sturgis did become an active CIA

informant for Barker not long afterwards and may have been even then.

Scott is right in associating it with the Brigade but these sorts of activities have nothing to do with OP40 which was entirely different, tied to the BOP and which produced no "media" events like

the one associated with this film...

Anyone really wanting to understand the context of the Sturgis/Hemming activities might spend a few months going though all the Miami papers for the period, its very educational. My friend Bill Bretz did that and then copied me with about 50 pounds of the relevant articles a good number of years ago.....

-- Larry

[Thomas Graves]

It really is amazing how these things keep resurfacing year after year. Then again its been perhaps three years before we' ve been though this same film cycle - James may remember better than I.

In any event, its really old news and goes back to a series of PR events that Sturgis and Hemming were holding to try and raise money. They invited photographers, did "training" sessions

like parachute drops and invited the press - some of the jumps came out rather badly as I recall. This is during a period in which Sturgis and Hemming were promoting their "brigade" which never

existed per se but was a nice PR tag line for their fund raising. Being of strong character the two could never hang together for too long and of course Sturgis did become an active CIA

informant for Barker not long afterwards and may have been even then.

Scott is right in associating it with the Brigade but these sorts of activities have nothing to do with OP40 which was entirely different, tied to the BOP and which produced no "media" events like

the one associated with this film...

Anyone really wanting to understand the context of the Sturgis/Hemming activities might spend a few months going though all the Miami papers for the period, its very educational. My friend Bill Bretz did that and then copied me with about 50 pounds of the relevant articles a good number of years ago.....

-- Larry

Larry,

I apologize for bringing up such old news.

Until I read your explanation five minutes ago, I didn't know what it was all about!

Who do you think the "mystery guy" is who "ducks" behind Sturgis in the video? (Obviously not LHO.)

Thank you,

--Tommy

PS At least now we know what "Frank Bender" (Gerry Droller) looked like!

Edited January 8, 2014 by Thomas Graves

[Larry Hancock]

Tommy, actually my thought would be that it would be nice to have some master archives of all the tangents and leads that still chew up peoples time because, as we all know, nothing

ever goes away on the internet. My sympathies go out to anybody coming into this subject relatively new - it took me over a decade to start separating wheat from chaff and there

was a lot less chaff when I started...grin.

I do recall that the fellow ducking was identified, James will probably recall who - I think it was a family member of one of the folks in the group but it surely was not LHO. It's deep in my

my memory stack to dredge it up.

In a similar vein, I recall when I took all the "looks like" photos from DP really seriously and was convinced that Sturgis was one of the tramps, then during my Interpen photo collection

period I came across a photo of Stugis with Diaz Lantz and Diaz Lantz's brother and son of a gun, the brother looked even more like the tall tramp than Sturgis! At that point I began to

be a lot less adamant about photo matches...

[Thomas Graves]

Larry Hancock said,

" [...] as we all know, nothing ever goes away on the internet. "

___________________________________________________________

Larry,

Except, of course, old photos on the JFK Assassination Debate forum! LOL

For example, the Highland Park High School photo of Larry Florer that James posted for me several years ago, proving that the Larry Florer arrested in Dealey Plaza wasn't really Ted Shackley in disguise http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=9129 is just gone, and as far as I can tell, nowhere to be found on the Net.

--Tommy

Edited January 19, 2014 by Thomas Graves

[John Kennedy White]

Watching the video a few times, I noticed the man is visible again a few seconds after the face-on glimpse, and from the side it appears he is dark complected with thick hair.