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National Archives Accessions Newly Discovered Post-JFK Assassination Tape Recording


Peter Fokes
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No, I think it would be grammatically correct for Bundy to say "the Pentagon was taking its own steps" with regard to what happened in Dallas. It would depend on whether or not Clifton had a good idea of what Bundy meant (since he couldn't see Bundy wink over the phone), i.e., "Look, if you really want to know what happened in Dallas, the Pentagon was taking its own steps."

I say this as an old English major, though of course back when I was in school the language was closer to Middle English than what we use today.

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No, I think it would be grammatically correct for Bundy to say "the Pentagon was taking its own steps" with regard to what happened in Dallas. It would depend on whether or not Clifton had a good idea of what Bundy meant (since he couldn't see Bundy wink over the phone), i.e., "Look, if you really want to know what happened in Dallas, the Pentagon was taking its own steps."

I say this as an old English major, though of course back when I was in school the language was closer to Middle English than what we use today.

Ronnie,

Did he say, "The Pentagon was taking its own steps" or "The Pentagon is taking its own steps"?

Probably the latter, as Manchester made an indirect quote of Clifton's indirect quote of Bundy.

--Tommy :)

Edited by Thomas Graves
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[...]

We need to hear what William Manchester heard when he quoted from the AF1 transmission:

"Ted Clifton talked to Bundy, too, asking again whether an international plot was emerging. .... Bundy replied crisply that the Pentagon was taking its own steps."

David, there is no evidence that the Pentagon took any steps toward determining the existence of an "international plot."

[...]

What about the mysterious phone call and cable from Ft. Sam Houston to MacDill AFB which caused planes from Ft. MacDill to go screaming towards Cuba? Could this be what Bundy meant when he said that the Pentagon was "taking its own steps"?

From an excellent post by Steve Thomas on another thread ("How did the police first learn of 1026 N. Beckley?"):

[...]

In the National Archives, there is a message dated November 26, 1963 from the Commanding General, U.S. Continental Army Command re-transmitting a message dated November 23, 1963 from someone at Fort Sam Houston, in San Antonio to CINC U.S. Strike Command at McDill Air Force Base in Florida. The November 23rd message summarizes a telephone conversation between a Captain Saxton in Strike Command and a Lieutenant Colonel Fons, Deputy Chief of Staff, Intelligence at 4th Army Headquarters at Fort Sam Houston that took place on November 23, 1963. In the middle of this summary, there is this passage:

“ASSISTANT CHIEF DON STRINGFELLOW, INTELLIGENCE SECTION, DALLAS POLICE DEPARTMENT, NOTIFIED 112TH INTC GP, THIS HQ, THAT INFORMATION OBRAINED FROM OSWALD REVEALED HE HAD DEFECTED TO CUBA IN 1959 AND IS CARD CARRYING MEMBER OF COMMUNIST PARTY EVALUATION B-3

(FOUO) DCSI COMMENT , FBI, DALLAS, TEXAS, AND SAN ANTONIO LIGHT NEWSPAPER STATED OSWALD TRAVELED TO MOSCOW, USSR, IN 1959. POSSIBILITY EXISTS THAT OSWALD MAY HAVE TRAVELED TO USSR VIA CUBA, IN VIEW OF ABOVE INFORMATION UNCOVERED BY DALLAS POLICE.”

In November, 1963 Leonard Don Stringfellow was a Detective in the Criminal Intelligence Section of the Dallas Police Department Special Services Bureau, headed by Captain W. P. Gannaway.

What is interesting about this document is that is says that Detective Stringfellow “notified 112th Intelligence Group, this Headquarters…”

I believe that this message was the one Col. Robert Jones, formerly of the 112 Military Intelligence Group in San Antonio was asked about during his testimony before the HSCA on April 20, 1978. (History Matters Archive – Unpublished testimony of Robert Jones, pp. 55-57.

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...jones_0055a.htm

Jones told the HSCA that while he did not know who prepared the cable, the cable was prepared by Mr. Arthur Nagle on the staff of the Chief of Staff, Intelligence, Fort Sam Houston. The From line on the original cable reads: FM CGASARFOUR FTSAMHOUSTON TEX. This could be Commanding General, Assistant Secretary, Fourth Army Headquarters Fort Sam Houston. He also definitely said that the original cable had not been prepared by the 112th.

The RIF for this document reads as follows:

AGENCY INFORMATION

AGENCY : USA

RECORD NUMBER : 197-10002-10369

RECORDS SERIES : HEADQUARTERS FILES, PENTAGON TELECOMMUNICATIONS CENTER

DOCUMENT INFORMATION

ORIGINATOR : COMMANDING GENERAL US CONTINENTAL ARMY COMMAND

FROM :

TO : CINC, US STRIKE COMMAND

TITLE : INFORMATION ON FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE

DATE : 11/26/1963

PAGES : 3

DOCUMENT TYPE : PAPER, TEXTUAL DOCUMENT

SUBJECTS : MILITARY DOMESTIC SURVEILLANCE (SECURITY

RISKS/COUNTERINTELLIGENCE); MILITARY DOMESTIC

SURVEILLANCE (FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE); LEE

HARVEY OSWALD; COLLINS, BARBARA; GIBSON, RICHARD; OSWALD, HARVEY LEE: BACKGROUND INFORMATION, CONNECTION WITH COMMITTEE; MEMBER OF COMMUNIST PARTY; TRAVEL TO USSR, CUBA; OSWALD, MARINA NIKOLAEVNA: SPOUSE; STRINGFELLOW, DON: ASST CHIEF, INTELLIGENCE SECTION, DALLAS POLICE DEPT; MILITARY INTELLIGENCE LIAISON WITH LAW ENFORCEMENT (DALLAS POLICE) CLASSIFICATION : UNCLASSIFIED

RESTRICTIONS : OPEN IN FULL

CURRENT STATUS : OPEN

DATE OF LAST REVIEW : 07/30/1996

COMMENTS : COPY ATTACHED

Ironically, several of the individuals referenced in the original cable were with President Kennedy four days before his assassination when he visited MacDill Air Force Base in Tampa on November 18th. In an article published by Frank DeBenedictis entitled:

FOUR DAYS BEFORE DALLAS: JFK IN TAMPA

http://www.lib.usf.edu/ldsu/digitalcollect...v16n2_94_57.pdf, DeBenedictis writes:

While Suncoast residents moved into their stadium and motorcade viewing spots, the

Presidential party was landing at MacDill Air Force Base for a military welcome. On hand to greet Kennedy were General Paul D. Adams, Commander in Chief U.S. Strike Command; Lieutenant General Bruce K. Holloway, Adams’ deputy; General Walter Sweeney, Commander of TAC and headquartered at Langley A.F.B., Virginia; and General John K. Waters, Commander in Chief Continental Army Command, Ft. Monroe, Virginia

[...]

Steve Thomas

------------------------------------------------------------

And this fine post by Larry Hancock on the "Ask an Expert" part of the Forum:

Steve, I've heard of Stringfellow in general but the only DPD name I see

associated with intel SPOT reports out of Dallas is DPD Captain Dowdy.

By the weekend, Lt. Col. Boyd of the Dallas 112th office had been assigned

to be on site with DPD to get reports directly; he was Deputy Commander

of Region II which included Dallas. His superior in Dallas was Lt. Col.

Roy Pate. Either Pate or Boyd would have been the correct people to have

questioned about what the 112th was doing in Dallas on Nov. 22, not Jones

who is listed as S2 Intelligence Officer. The other candidates would have been

Lt. Col Stanley Greer who was actually the Operations officer or his boss the

Group Commander Col. Williard Mize; both located at 112th headquarters in

San Antonio.

.....Larry

bump

Edited by Thomas Graves
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At the time the USA had a joint USA/Canada defense plan against USSR air/missile attack across the north pole, with radar stations and Strategic Air Command air bases positioned throughout North America.

As you've pointed out, according to his biography he was on vacation in Michigan (I think with his in-laws). One reason he might go to a Canadian air base while on vacation is that it would be a lot easier to catch a plane there, in case something "unusual" were to happen that day, than from wherever he was staying in Michigan.

I don't believe he was in Michigan.

I believe the Andrews Log and AF1 tape that he was at the Canadian Air Base - and the Michigan story is bogus.

BK

JFKcountercoup

The Michigan alibi.

Alibi.

Thanks for the details BK and Ron.

Any idea where Navy Secretary Paul B. Fay was during the autopsy?

Apparently he was an ally of President Kennedy so I can't imagine LeMay and his cronies wanted Fay at Bethesda.

If Fay and LeMay were both there giving conflicting orders, I'd think the doctors at Bethesda would have to follow orders from Fay.

I haven't read Fay's book "The Pleasure of His Company." I wonder if he says in there where he was during the autopsy.

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END

Where LeMay's connections to the JFK assassination get really interesting is the fact that it was LeMay himself

who worked very closely in putting together the "communications system" that was in use aboard Air Force One the day of the assassination in Dallas.

The following was written by moi.....

It is beyond dispute that the Collins Radio Company, headquartered in Dallas, interfaced with the CIA as far as the operations out of the JMWAVE station, especially regarding the SS Rex, in anti-Castro operations in 1963. The key to deciphering the relationships is not found in a JFK assassination document, but in the activities of Arthur Collins in the years of his life and his company beginning in 1956. It is not even suggested that Arthur Collins was a conspirator in any way shape or form. But that the communications sysytem he helped perfect led to what is the strongest area of conspiracy regarding the Kennedy Assassination. The parties included General Curtis LeMay, who at the time was the head of the Strategic Air Command, Major General Francis Griswold and Arthur Collins. LeMay would later bragg to fellow Joint Chiefs of Staff members how he confronted John F Kennedy in a meeting during the Cuban Missile Crisis.

In 1954 LeMay had invited via “special invitation,” Arthur Collins to attend a meeting of business executives at Offut, AFB in Nebraska. While there Collins hobnobbed with officials of General Motors, Ford and Chrysler. While there, Collins also informed LeMay of advances his company had made in single-sideband radio, an area that the Air Force was looking to develop and improve on. What LeMay’s relationship with Arthur Collins eventually led to, was something called BIRDCALL, an “air-to-ground and point-to-point SSB communication system.” Further testing on this communications system continued throughout 1956. Navy personnel were among voluminous radio contacts Arthur Collins made during the testing of this system, one at a WAC Navy station in Antarctica, and others, Collins biography relates he communicated with over 1,000 persons worldwide. The end result of BIRDCALL was a incremental improvement of SSB single-sideband communications that were incorporated into the Department of Defense radio communications system, and it was this system that structured the communications network on November 22, 1963;

Three persons definitively related to the implementation to the development of Air Force One's Communications System which was in place on November 22, 1963, were General Curtis Lemay,* General Francis W. Griswold** and Arthur A. Collins......See pages 221-233, Arthur Collins Radio Wizard - Ben W Stearns

Although the following is more of a factoid than anything else, I found it to be noteworthy.....

Lexington Herald-Leader (KY) - February 26, 1987

Deceased Name: CEDAR RAPIDS, Iowa -- Arthur A. Collins

Iowa -- Arthur A. Collins, 77, a pioneer inventor in radio and aviation communications, died yesterday.

An inventor, amateur radio operator and licensed pilot, Collins was an innovator in aviation communications. He also was a pioneer in the development of advanced data communications and control concepts -- techniques used in digital switching for the telecommunications industry. He founded Collins Radio Co. in 1931. Rockwell International took control of Collins Radio Co. in 1972. He formed a new firm, Arthur A. Collins Inc. At his death, he continued to head that company, which conducts system engineering studies in communications and computer fields. Collins wrote the book Telecommunications -- A Time For Innovation with longtime colleague Robert Peterson in 1973.

https://www.amherst.edu/aboutamherst/history/timeline

* For more on General Curtis Emerson LeMay see

http://www.af.mil/information/bios/bio.asp?bioID=6178

** For more on General Griswold see

http://www.af.mil/information/bios/bio.asp?bioid=5636

From CIA Foundations Thread

Tom Scully wrote

Gentlemen, as I've often posted about recently, the February, 1967 Ramparts article exposed the sources of funding of the student organizations. Mr. Houghton, chairman of the Met. Museum of Art, was the head of the only CIA backed student supporting foundation having an actual staff and a physical office. George Plimpton's father, Francis was on the board of both the foundation and the Met. He had to be a witting participant. Plimpton's brother [Calvin Hastings] was McCloy's choice in 1960 as president of Amherst College.

Paul Hellmuth, attorney and enabler of CIA operative, Dr. Tom Dooley, was partnered in a minor, as well as a top contributing foundation of CIA supplied funds to student groups, with David B. Stone. Hellmuth was known to have coordinated the creation of at least two CIA propietary corps., Anderson Security Consultants and Zenith Technical Enterprises, as well.

end

Other notables associated with Amherst College

Stanley Marcus [freshman year]

page 33,Dealey Plaza Echo, Volume 12, Issue 3

The Strange Absence of Stanley Marcus, by Terry J. Moore

Judge Burt W. Griffin - Warren Commission

Frederick C. Barghoorn - was arrested by Soviets during JFK's last months in office, and was center of controversy

regarding divergence of information as to whether he was spying, JFK denounced the Soviet's for the arrest, but later

it seems highly possible, if not probable he had indeed acted on behalf of the CIA.

Arthur A Collins

page 22, Arthur Collins Radio Wizard - Ben W Stearns

James Olds [eminent psychiatrist]

Olds was born in Chicago, Illinois. His father Leland Olds later became Chairman of the Federal Power Commission under President Franklin D. Roosevelt. His grandfather George D. Olds was the ninth President of Amherst College. Olds grew up in Nyack, New York. Olds attended college at a number of schools including St. John's College, Annapolis, and the University of Wisconsin, but received his undergraduate B.A. from Amherst College in 1947.

http://www.nap.edu/readingroom/books/biomems/jolds.html

From 1963 Timeline of Amherst College

Walker Hall razed to build Frost Library.

October U.S. President John F. Kennedy speaks at Convocation and the groundbreaking for the Robert Frost Library. It is one of the president's last public appearances; he is assassinated one month later. The library was completed in 1965, and poet Richard Wilbur (AC 1942) spoke at the dedication.

Another not so well known fact is that amongst the Collins Radio associates was Siegfried Knemeyer would would have been very at home, as if he had been a moving, [literally from Germany to America] participant in Operation Paperclip; Stearns wrote "Knemeyer had an interesting background as a scientist and an aviator. He was born in Germany in 1909 the same year as Arthur Collins’ birth. He studied physics and aeronautical engineering, and learned to fly in his teen years. After Adolph Hitler came to power in 1933 and began to build a German air force. Knemeyer taught many military officers how to fly, including future Nazi generals. In 1936 he invented a small circular slide rule computer enabling a pilot to estimate time, distance and speed when flying. It was known as The Knemeyer and was long used by most European pilots. With the start of World War II in 1939, Knemeyer had to become a German military pilot. He did not fly combat missions, but had other assignments including reconaissance. One plane he flew was a special version of the twin-engine Junkers JU-88 equipped for long range. It could fly at 37,000 feet, too high to be reached by enemy fighters ar anti-aircraft fire. Reportedly on one mission Kenmeyer’s JU-88 crew photographed a large group of British Navy and merchant ships in the Suez canal, which led to German forces inflicting heavy losses when the ships entered the Mediterranean.

Later he headed German air force technical development including early jet airplanes. Coming to the US after the war, he was allowed to be a consultant to industry on

commercial projects while also working for the Air Force. He was retained by Collins for more than 20 years.

Edited by Robert Howard
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AS DOUG HORNE'S ARRB MEMO NOTES: THE COMPLETE TAPE OF THREE RADIO TRANSMISSION GOING AT THE SAME TIME FROM AF1 WOULD BE SIX TO SEVEN HOURS OF TAPE. flying

Only if the plane was 170 - 200 mph

http://www.travelmat.../Washington,+DC

Gary Mack made this claim to.

You can do the math yourself Len, but first understand what you are talking about, and read Doug Horne's ARRB Memo and the Chapter devoted to the AF1 recordings in his book (Chapter 13), which I have taken the time and trouble to type and post at my blog for you to read, though I suggest you read all five volumes of his book if you really want to debate anybody with any knowledge of the case.

The bottom line is, as Manchester notes in his book The Death of the President, and quoted elsewhere and at my blog,

there were THREE sideband radios being used to communicate with others outside the plane while enroute from Love Field, Dallas to Andrews AFB DC, a flight that took less than three hours, so as Doug Horne estimates, and I agree, there should be at least five to six hours of taped conversations, tapes that as Manchester notes - were ordered made by JFK himself, an order that was unknown to LBJ at the time.

Now before you start arguing about things, please read on and bone up on what is already known before you start sprouting off and trying to teach anybody arithmetic.

BK

JFKcountercoup: "Pentagon taking its own steps..." - Bundy

OK as Emily Litella would say "never mind"

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AS DOUG HORNE'S ARRB MEMO NOTES: THE COMPLETE TAPE OF THREE RADIO TRANSMISSION GOING AT THE SAME TIME FROM AF1 WOULD BE SIX TO SEVEN HOURS OF TAPE. flying

Only if the plane was 170 - 200 mph

http://www.travelmat.../Washington,+DC

Gary Mack made this claim to.

You can do the math yourself Len, but first understand what you are talking about, and read Doug Horne's ARRB Memo and the Chapter devoted to the AF1 recordings in his book (Chapter 13), which I have taken the time and trouble to type and post at my blog for you to read, though I suggest you read all five volumes of his book if you really want to debate anybody with any knowledge of the case.

The bottom line is, as Manchester notes in his book The Death of the President, and quoted elsewhere and at my blog,

there were THREE sideband radios being used to communicate with others outside the plane while enroute from Love Field, Dallas to Andrews AFB DC, a flight that took less than three hours, so as Doug Horne estimates, and I agree, there should be at least five to six hours of taped conversations, tapes that as Manchester notes - were ordered made by JFK himself, an order that was unknown to LBJ at the time.

Now before you start arguing about things, please read on and bone up on what is already known before you start sprouting off and trying to teach anybody arithmetic.

BK

JFKcountercoup: "Pentagon taking its own steps..." - Bundy

OK as Emily Litella would say "never mind"

Oh Len, don't be such a spoiled sport. Emily was always a bit confused, God rest her, but you don't have to be.

There's still plenty of room for arguments if you want to familiarize yourself with the issues, particularly those brought up by Salandria, T.H. White and Manchester concerning the talk of conspiracy that's not on the existing tapes.

I think that Salandria and White may be wrong by inferring that the passengers aboard the cabinet plane (86972, aka 72) and AF1 learned of the assassin's arrest and no conspiracy from Bundy in the Situation Room at the White House (Crown), when they could have very well learned it from the regular news reports (AP wire, aka "the ticker").

Everyone seems interested in the references to LeMay, as his aide is frantically trying to get in touch with him to tell him something before he lands in DC - expected in only a half hour. What could possibly be so important?

There's also the discrepancy between LeMay's official bio that places him in Michigan with family when JFK was killed, while the Andrews Log places him at an air base in Canada and then on a plane to DC, which puts him in position to be at Bethesda for the autopsy. Was LeMay there? Was he the cigar smoking, four star general who ordered the back wound not to be explored?

Other issues to be addressed are whether there are any more outstanding copies of these tapes, especially the unedited originals the WHCA should have, but don't.

There's an interesting book about the White House Communications Agency by a guy named Gully, who Tony Summers turned me on to. His book says that the WHCA was an all around black outfit that carried out all kinds of Shennigans for Presidents. He says that whenever they needed something done off the books, they would have it financed through WHCA because its records were never audited or overseen by anybody.

If you or anybody wants to do some original research instead of arguing about conspiracy theories, there's plenty of research to be done - particularly locating any of those who are still alive - LBJ's pilot Cross, who wrote the letter to Salandria telling him that WHCA records aren't available to ANYONE, and anybody who was on the plane at the time.

Who was Gen. LeMay's aide and what did he want to tell LeMay before he arrived?

What's Vince Salandria have to say about all this?

For those interested in this subject and want to take up the chase, here are the relevant links:

At the bottom of this page there are two links that can be played on a computer MP3. Post JFK Assassination Air Force One Flight Deck Recording

Another, earlier and shorter version that contains some different content can be found at Mary Ferrell Archives.Audio - Other

http://www.maryferrell.org/wiki/index.php/Audio_-_Other

I had done a transcript of the earlier tape and am trying to combine them here:JFKcountercoup: Air Force One Radio Transcript - Update

While this is still a work in progress, and details have to be filled in, you can listen to the tape, follow the transcript and use the code key I provide in the previous blog post to decipher the identities of those doing the talking and what they are saying.

JFKcountercoup: Air Force One Codes & Passenger List

There are some other posts on my blog that go into the some of the issues involved, particularly the whereabouts of the complete, unedited tape and transcripts and what's not on the existing tapes but we know should be on them from other sources, including:

Excerpts from Raab Collection: The Original White House Version of the Kennedy Assassination Air Force One Tape, Not Previously Known to ExistHistorical Document and Autograph Dealer The Raab Collection

Boston Globe article and media reports: JFKcountercoup: NARA Releases Clifton Copy of AF1 Radio Transmissions

ARRB Search for original recordings: JFKcountercoup: ARRB Search for AF1 Radio TapesWilliam Manchester's references: JFKcountercoup: "Pentagon taking its own steps..." - Bundy

Vince Salandria: JFKcountercoup: Tale of the Tapes - By Vincent Salandria

Raab Collection and highlight excerpts: JFKcountercoup: Gen. Clifton's AF1 Radio Transmission Tape

JFK At SAC Command Post: JFKcountercoup: JFK at the SAC Command Post - Offut AFB

Signficance of the AF1 Radio Transmissions: JFKcountercoup: Significance of AF1 Radio Transmissions

Maj. Gen. Clifton: JFKcountercoup: Maj. Gen. Chester V. "Ted" Clifton, Jr.

LeMay on 11/22/63: JFKcountercoup: General Curtis LeMay on 11/22/63

Andrews Log (Ordered destroyed, rescued from dumpsters): JFKcountercoup: Andrews AFB Log 11/22/63

Bill Kelly

JFKcountercoup

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I think that Salandria and White may be wrong by inferring that the passengers aboard the cabinet plane (86972, aka 72) and AF1 learned of the assassin's arrest and no conspiracy from Bundy in the Situation Room at the White House (Crown), when they could have very well learned it from the regular news reports (AP wire, aka "the ticker").

There were news reports that afternoon reporting Oswald as the lone assassin?

That's an interesting line of inquiry -- when did the first news reports appear fingering Oswald as a "lone nut"?

Edited by Cliff Varnell
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According to Don GIbson, Clliff, that started that evening, and it was the NY Herald TrIbune, in an editorial personally penned by owner Jock Whitney. A man very close to Nelson and David Rockefeller, and who did not like JFK. Who among other things, relieved him of his ambassadorship to England.

According to Bruce Adamson, Kennedy did that in rather terse and impolite form, showing that the lack of fondness was mutual. The three word telegram allegedly read:

Jock:

Pack.

Jack

Looks like it was quite a day for the Yale "society" boys -- Harriman (Skull & Bones '13), Bundy (Skull & Bones '40), Whitney (Scroll & Key '26).

The JFK "lone nut" cover-up was covered in blueblood.

Edited by Cliff Varnell
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Guest Tom Scully

According to Don GIbson, Clliff, that started that evening, and it was the NY Herald TrIbune, in an editorial personally penned by owner Jock Whitney. A man very close to Nelson and David Rockefeller, and who did not like JFK. Who among other things, relieved him of his ambassadorship to England.

According to Bruce Adamson, Kennedy did that in rather terse and impolite form, showing that the lack of fondness was mutual. The three word telegram allegedly read:

Jock:

Pack.

Jack

Looks like it was quite a day for the Yale "society" boys -- Harriman (Skull & Bones '13), Bundy (Skull & Bones '40), Whitney (Scroll & Key '26).

The JFK "lone nut" cover-up was covered in blueblood.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1964&dat=19430515&id=dWgyAAAAIBAJ&sjid=zrYFAAAAIBAJ&pg=973,3602411

The Palm Beach Post - May 15, 1943

Till- Palm Beach Post-times .Slightly Off The Record

...George de Mohrenschildt summoned back to New York y his draft board after dividing his time between Palm Beach and the Wood Kahler place in Lantana ...

............

As it turns out, the FBI and WC not only narrowly focussed their investigative attention (at least what was permitted for inclusion in the WCR) on Dorothy Pierson's long deceased father, instead of on De Mohrenschildt, how he came to be acquainted with Dorothy, who was in their wedding party, who their mutual friends were, i.e., an actual investigation of LHO's "best friend", these government sleuths also missed this:

The FBI reported that De Mohrenschildt told the FBI in 1945 that he happened to be in Palm Beach at the time he met Dorothy, in response to an invitation from a Mr. Kahler of 941 Park Ave., NY, NY, who I've found was Phillips Exeter 1914, a Yale 1918 classmate (a fellow military aviator) of Trubee Davison and Robert Lovett. In 1964, the FBI claimed to have much difficulty in verifying that a Kahler was ever known to reside in Palm Beach. The FBI included a June, 1942, report that Nancy Latimer of Lake Worth, FL, told an FBI agent she was suspicious of the sympathies of one Wood Kahler of Lantana, FL.

It turns out that Kahler was the son of Dallas banker, Harry A. Kahler and his wife, Beulah Pace, later of New York City and Littleton, NH. When finally located and interviewed in 1944, Kahler told the FBI that he still maintained contact with De Mohrenschildt and his wife was in receipt of a recent letter from George.

Both in 1945 during WWII, and in 1964, the FBI also failed to report that Kahler's wife, Olga, was the former wife of Nazi Occupation Parisian Propaganda Chief, Leo Eigner.

...........

SURRATTS TRAIL.; The Disguises of Booth and SurrattThe...

New York Times - Jul 4, 1867

The prosecution in the Surratt trial, to-day, very nearly exhausted its ... he knew nothing et his mother s peril until about the time ot :he .execution. ...

From page 8-A (editorial page) left column, middle:

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=PZE8UkGerEcC&dat=19631123&printsec=frontpage&hl=en

6818103239_4396f739c3_b.jpg

Edited by Tom Scully
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Guest Tom Scully
http://www.google.com/search?q=all+such+murders+were+the+work+of+individual+hysteria%2C+just+as+was+the+murder+of+the+assassin%2C+&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:unofficial&client=firefox-a

The Kennedy assassination cover-up - Google Books Result

books.google.com/books?isbn=1560727276... Donald Gibson - 2000 - History - 306 pages

His sense of history would have told him that all such murders were the work of individual hysteria, just as was the murder of the assassin, not the working of the....

CASE CLOSED

Obligation to thoroughly investigate and report findings to American people= "witchhunt". Both the right and the left must not be closely scrutinized.

Oswald was dead less than 16 hours, when type was set to print this propaganda; one lone nut, two lone nuts....it mattered not:

6819578365_96354ea593_z.jpg

President Kennedy

Wall Street Journal - Nov 25, 1963

His sense of history would have told him that all such murders were the work of individual hysteria, just as was the murder of the assassin, not the working of the historical process...

6819452871_da3444957a_b.jpg

Edited by Tom Scully
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AS DOUG HORNE'S ARRB MEMO NOTES: THE COMPLETE TAPE OF THREE RADIO TRANSMISSION GOING AT THE SAME TIME FROM AF1 WOULD BE SIX TO SEVEN HOURS OF TAPE. flying

Only if the plane was 170 - 200 mph

http://www.travelmat.../Washington,+DC

Gary Mack made this claim to.

You can do the math yourself Len, but first understand what you are talking about, and read Doug Horne's ARRB Memo and the Chapter devoted to the AF1 recordings in his book (Chapter 13), which I have taken the time and trouble to type and post at my blog for you to read, though I suggest you read all five volumes of his book if you really want to debate anybody with any knowledge of the case.

The bottom line is, as Manchester notes in his book The Death of the President, and quoted elsewhere and at my blog,

there were THREE sideband radios being used to communicate with others outside the plane while enroute from Love Field, Dallas to Andrews AFB DC, a flight that took less than three hours, so as Doug Horne estimates, and I agree, there should be at least five to six hours of taped conversations, tapes that as Manchester notes - were ordered made by JFK himself, an order that was unknown to LBJ at the time.

Now before you start arguing about things, please read on and bone up on what is already known before you start sprouting off and trying to teach anybody arithmetic.

BK

JFKcountercoup: "Pentagon taking its own steps..." - Bundy

OK as Emily Litella would say "never mind"

Oh Len, don't be such a spoiled sport. Emily was always a bit confused, God rest her, but you don't have to be.

How was I a ‘spoil sport”? I admitted error, something many (if not most) forum members seem unable to do.

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I think that Salandria and White may be wrong by inferring that the passengers aboard the cabinet plane (86972, aka 72) and AF1 learned of the assassin's arrest and no conspiracy from Bundy in the Situation Room at the White House (Crown), when they could have very well learned it from the regular news reports (AP wire, aka "the ticker").

There were news reports that afternoon reporting Oswald as the lone assassin?

That's an interesting line of inquiry -- when did the first news reports appear fingering Oswald as a "lone nut"?

That should be easy enough to find out.

AF One apparently had an AP - Associated Press wire service ticker tape machine from which they got information from.

BK

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