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The "Pristine Bullet": Did the Warren Commission Undermine Its Own Case?


Barry Krusch
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It seems to me that the Warren Commission basically undermined its own case with two sentences that appear in its report, sentences which are mutually contradictory. The first appears on page 94:

"Wound Ballistics experts conducted tests which proved the governor’s wrist wound was not caused by a pristine bullet."

The second appears on page 95:

"All the evidence indicated that the bullet found on the Governor’s stretcher could have caused all his wounds."

Now, as we all know, the bullet ostensibly found on the Governor's stretcher was CE 399, about as pristine a bullet as you could imagine, apart from some slight flattening which could have been achieved by firing the bullet into water. So, according to the Warren Commission, the tests by the wound ballistics experts prove that the wrist wound was not caused by that bullet.

I mean, I can't believe what I am reading here. Am I missing something?

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Tom Purvis

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It seems to me that the Warren Commission basically undermined its own case with two sentences that appear in its report, sentences which are mutually contradictory. The first appears on page 94:

"Wound Ballistics experts conducted tests which proved the governor’s wrist wound was not caused by a pristine bullet."

The second appears on page 95:

"All the evidence indicated that the bullet found on the Governor’s stretcher could have caused all his wounds."

Now, as we all know, the bullet ostensibly found on the Governor's stretcher was CE 399, about as pristine a bullet as you could imagine, apart from some slight flattening which could have been achieved by firing the bullet into water. So, according to the Warren Commission, the tests by the wound ballistics experts prove that the wrist wound was not caused by that bullet.

I mean, I can't believe what I am reading here. Am I missing something?

When one fully reads the testimonies and statements regarding exactly where CE399 was found, the old game of "Where's the pea" comes fully to mind.

Rest assured that CE399 and JBC never met (physically).

Tom

P.S. It is BS that one can fire a WCC 6.5mm Carcano bullet into a drum of water and have it thereafter incur the anomalies which CE399 possesses.

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Yes, Martin, I obviously agree with your analysis. My question revolves around the contradictory nature of the two sentences. How can these possibly be reconciled? If they can't be, isn't what is among the best evidence against the single bullet theory contained within the Warren Report itself?

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Barry, your last question is the answer. The truth, or at least the portion we've been allowed to see, IS in the Warren Comission Report; problem is, that same truth is NOT reflected in their conclusions. Remember, it was the CONCLUSIONS that were for consumption by the American public; the EVIDENCE was "supposed to be" hidden from the public for 75 years.

Edited by Mark Knight
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It seems to me that the Warren Commission basically undermined its own case with two sentences that appear in its report, sentences which are mutually contradictory. The first appears on page 94:

"Wound Ballistics experts conducted tests which proved the governor's wrist wound was not caused by a pristine bullet."

The second appears on page 95:

"All the evidence indicated that the bullet found on the Governor's stretcher could have caused all his wounds."

Now, as we all know, the bullet ostensibly found on the Governor's stretcher was CE 399, about as pristine a bullet as you could imagine, apart from some slight flattening which could have been achieved by firing the bullet into water. So, according to the Warren Commission, the tests by the wound ballistics experts prove that the wrist wound was not caused by that bullet.

I mean, I can't believe what I am reading here. Am I missing something?

When one fully reads the testimonies and statements regarding exactly where CE399 was found, the old game of "Where's the pea" comes fully to mind.

Rest assured that CE399 and JBC never met (physically).

Tom

P.S. It is BS that one can fire a WCC 6.5mm Carcano bullet into a drum of water and have it thereafter incur the anomalies which CE399 possesses.

I'd like Tink Thompson to confirm or refute that, as I think he knows something about those tests being performed.

Thanks,

BK

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Now, as we all know, the bullet ostensibly found on the Governor's stretcher was CE 399, about as pristine a bullet as you could imagine, apart from some slight flattening which could have been achieved by firing the bullet into water. So, according to the Warren Commission, the tests by the wound ballistics experts prove that the wrist wound was not caused by that bullet.

Barry,

CE399 was not at Parkland

It was not on the Govenor's stretcher

It was not "pristine"... it was indeed fired and parts of the jacket and inner lead were no longer there before pieces are taken for "study"

Case in point... any organic or fiberous material on a bullet that supposedly passes thru 2 men might help to prove such a theory, no?

Mr. EISENBERG - Did you prepare the bullet in any way for examination? That is, did you clean it or in any way alter it?

Mr. FRAZIER - No, sir; it was not necessary. The bullet was clean and it was not necessary to change it in any way.

Mr. EISENBERG - There was no blood or similar material on the bullet when you received it?

Mr. FRAZIER - Not any which would interfere with the examination, no, sir. Now there may have been slight traces which could have been removed just ,in ordinary handling, but it wasn't necessary to actually clean blood or tissue off of the bullet.

Is it just me, but if there was any material on this bullet, either organic or inorganic, wouldn't the FBI be interested in that as evidence?

This FBI AGENT is happy that the bullet that supposedly passed thru

jacket - shirt - skin - muscle - ?? - skin - jacket - shirt - skin - muscle - bone - muscle - skin - (I forgot shirt&jacket) - skin - wrist bone - muscle - skin - pants - skin - muscle

AND all that blood along the way

and this FBI AGENT is glad it was not necessary to CLEAN... so he would have actually CLEANED it first if it was...?

Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir. This is a bullet which was delivered to me in the FBI laboratory on November 22, 1963 by Special Agent Elmer Todd of the FBI Washington Field Office.

CE399notthebulletCE2011_24_412.jpg

Todd says CE399 IS the bullet he gets from Rowley... yet Rowley cannot confirm it is the one he got from Johnson and GAVE to SA Todd.

Todds initials are the first initials on CE399 before Frazier, Cunningham etc...

From all indications Todd, who was the SA who badgered Perry, inserted the bullet currently in evidence as CE399 into the process after Rowley gave him a different bullet.

CE399 was never at Parkland Mr Purvis

and it did not exist until Todd gives it to Frazier...

Now... where did TODD GET IT? :ph34r:

Edited by David Josephs
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Yes, Martin, I obviously agree with your analysis. My question revolves around the contradictory nature of the two sentences. How can these possibly be reconciled? If they can't be, isn't what is among the best evidence against the single bullet theory contained within the Warren Report itself?

As Judge Judy says: "If it don't make sense, it ain't true"!

Tom

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Yes, Martin, I obviously agree with your analysis. My question revolves around the contradictory nature of the two sentences. How can these possibly be reconciled? If they can't be, isn't what is among the best evidence against the single bullet theory contained within the Warren Report itself?

As Judge Judy says: "If it don't make sense, it ain't true"!

Tom

Tom,

I asked you the same thing on a different thread...

How does the bullet that becomes CE399 get from JFK's Back to Elmer Todd?

I have yet to see you offer a single item that makes that connection...

Based on the evidence, all Todd needed to do was bring Frazier a bullet and initial it...

SA Johnsen is given the bullet at Parkland by Wright Dir of Security

SA Johnsen flies to DC, and at 7:30 types an explanation of the chain of custody... giving Rowley the Envelope the Bullet is supposedly in...

SA Johnsen also says that CE399 cannot be identified as the bullet he gave Rowley...

and Finally Frazier's notes tell us he rec'd this bullet from TODD at 7:30pm Fri night... which is impossible is Johnsen was first giving it to Rowley at this time....

Will you be offering us any evidence at all to connect CE399 to Parkland or Dallas other than it was shot out of the rifle that too was in DC that night??

http://www.jfklancer.com/hunt/mystery.html

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It seems to me that the Warren Commission basically undermined its own case with two sentences that appear in its report, sentences which are mutually contradictory. The first appears on page 94:

"Wound Ballistics experts conducted tests which proved the governor's wrist wound was not caused by a pristine bullet."

The second appears on page 95:

"All the evidence indicated that the bullet found on the Governor's stretcher could have caused all his wounds."

Now, as we all know, the bullet ostensibly found on the Governor's stretcher was CE 399, about as pristine a bullet as you could imagine, apart from some slight flattening which could have been achieved by firing the bullet into water. So, according to the Warren Commission, the tests by the wound ballistics experts prove that the wrist wound was not caused by that bullet.

I mean, I can't believe what I am reading here. Am I missing something?

When one fully reads the testimonies and statements regarding exactly where CE399 was found, the old game of "Where's the pea" comes fully to mind.

Rest assured that CE399 and JBC never met (physically).

Tom

P.S. It is BS that one can fire a WCC 6.5mm Carcano bullet into a drum of water and have it thereafter incur the anomalies which CE399 possesses.

I'd like Tink Thompson to confirm or refute that, as I think he knows something about those tests being performed.

Thanks,

BK

Since Mr. Thompson is now in possession of a complete/full description of all of the anomalies which CE399 exhibits, I too would like to see a committment along that lines.

Tom

P.S. One sure as hell can not achieve these anomalies on a WCC 6.5mm bullet by merely firing it into either a drum of water or a "cotton packed tube".

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