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Doug Horne: AF One (Clifton) Tapes


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Hi Bill..........there is a spelling correction, with the place . name Wiarton, i have posted this previously..i guess it was missed....Wiarton, is up north in the province of ontario......it is ia not ai...also it is pronounced like why-ar-ton, not whatever Doug kept pronouncing in the interview....just adding this information, so you have all correct ..best b

Edited by Bernice Moore
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I've offered to make a transcript of it but I can't stay on the internet for long periods, so if someone will send me a CD ROM of it I will make a transcript and post it. As I told Doug, until it is written down and archived it's only entertaining.

Or is there someway I can down load the interview to my computer?

BK

JFKcountercoup

Yes, there is a way to download it. Just go to BOR 2012 Archives and you'll see options for playing it with Real Player or downloading it as an MP3 file.

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Hi Bill..........there is a spelling correction, with the place . name Wiarton, i have posted this previously..i guess it was missed....Wiarton, is up north in the province of ontario......it is ia not ai...also it is pronounced like why-ar-ton, not whatever Doug kept pronouncing in the interview....just adding this information, so you have all correct ..best b

Yes, I know B. It's Wiarton.

I have a blog post of it with a photo of the place, very small.

It is actually south east of the part of Michigan where LeMay apparently was at the time of the assassination.

So the speculation that LeMay lied about being in Michigan at the time is probably incorrect, and that he was in fact "hunting and fishing" in Michigan, where his wife's family apparently has a vacation cottage.

This is supported by the son of his aide, Col. George Dorman, who can be heard on the AF1 radio tapes trying to get a message to LeMay before he landed. Dorman, Jr. said his dad was always with LeMay, and since he didn't have his usual command and control aircraft - "Speckled Trout," it seems like LeMay really was on a holiday.

According to the Andrews Log, the order for a "Pick Up" for LeMay comes in within a half hour of the public news announcement of the assassination, and the original destination is Toronto, which is also southeast of where LeMay is said to have been and the closest major airport to where he was. To get there LeMay had to fly southeast across the lake, which he probably did by small airplane, into Canada and Wiarton, where the pick up point was changed to after they figured out that airport was closer.

And Greg, I will try to down load Horne interview and see if that works.

BK

JFKcountercoup

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  • 1 year later...

Tonight's Black Op Radio Show with Len Osanic's interview of Doug Horne is a MUST hear.

It is show #569.

http://blackopradio....chives2012.html

Doug is at his best. His interpretation of the evidence is stellar. His conclusion is very

astute, namely that: Those in government, most notably those in relevant government

positions post 1975 era, are cowards. They know the truth and are simply too petrified

of the ramifications to reveal the truth. Indeed, they are much too petrified to allow the

records themselves (even minus any logical damning conclusions) to be released to

the public.

This dovetails nicely with the sentiments of Colonel L. Fletcher Prouty, who said:

"If these things became widely known...what really happened...the fear is that it could

bring down the entire government. It is primarily for this reason that the cover up is still

perpetuated."

Thanks for that Greg,

I too think its an important issue and hope we can develop it further.

BK

JFKcountercoup

Black Op Radio

Doug Horne on Black Op Radio

From what I understand the program was very successful, Doug touched on a lot of important points, Len asked good questions, and the show was listened to by a lot of people from all over North American and Europe.

The map at the bottom of this post shows the locations of those who tuned in live:

JFKcountercoup: Doug Horne on Black Op Radio

Here's the synopsis:

Show #569

Original airdate: March 8, 2012

Guest: Doug Horne

Topics: Transcripts of the Air Force One Tapes

Play Part One - Doug Horne (3:00:00) RealMedia or MP3download

Doug performedstaff work on the ARRB andwrote a five volume book (2009)

 Air Force One audio tapes, Cedar Rapids, theFishbowl, call-sign Liberty, Collins Radio,Bill Kelly

SAM 26000, David Lifton,the AP article,Clifton, 2:20 long, on-line recordings,2 mp3's

 Doug's blog, take off/landing timesfor Air Force Two, Col. Dorman tryingto get hold of Gen. LeMay

 MSgt. Trimble,4 simultaneous frequencies, the 02:17:00flight should have 6 hrs of recorded conversation

 Still missingmessages, to Salinger and Asst. Sec. State Robert Manning fromWH Situation Room

 The Making of thePresident 1964,Oswald guilty message passed to Air Force One

 General LeMay,what was he doing the day of the assassination?

 Airman Gilmore,contact LeMay, log bookrescued from trash, Chuck Holmes

 Airplane sent to Toronto,diverted to Wairton, Secretary ofthe Air Force orders plane to Andrews

 Lands at National,a civilian airport in a military craft at 5:12 PM EST, 52 minutes before AF1 lands

 Warren Kozak book,p356, "on a hunting trip in Michigan", a strong dislike between LeMayand JFK

 JCS, SAC, Gen. Power, Seven Daysin May (1962), LeMay calling Kennedy a coward

 Missile Crisis,quotes from transcript, Timothy Naftali, Munich,Cuba had tactical nuclear weapons

 Russian Beartesticles, "We've won", "We've been had", LeMay,"Won, hell!, We lost", first strike

 Paul O'Conner, Navy man atautopsy, LeMay was at the autopsy, smoking a cigar,

 Why is LeMays aidenot with him?, Why a special flight to get him? Lying about where he was thatday

 67 Japanese citiesdestroyed by firebombing,a cheerleader of the coup, SIOP-62

 The autopsy site andthe mode of transportation forthe body

 Context, threecasket entries to the morgue, 6:35 pm,cheap metal shipping casket, 6:55, 8:15

Kellerman to Behn,"Waiting for swearing in", "After the uh, body"

 Aft starboardgalley door, Dr. Rose,Aubrey Rike, Mrs. Kennedyon board, flying command post

 Col. Hornbuckle,where will the autopsy be? Kellerman, Adm. Burkley,ambulance to Walter Reed

Behn, "No, byhelicopter to Bethesda",Burkley, to Walter Reed, "Choppered to South Grounds"

 "Body by heloto Bethesda", Clifton/Watchman, Heaton,ambulance to Walter Reed,

 Mortuary ambulance,"Black car...black Cadillac", Col. Swindal, rampforward on starboard side

NBC,6:04 pm, AF One rolls to a stop,"an Army helo has just landed", gray Naval ambulance

 6:09 ambulance departs, Jackie stayed with the coffin,"ambulance to helicopters"

 6:20 TV coverage is cut, Lifton/Lancer 1996,interviewed a Marine helicopter pilot

 Hid his chopperbehind some trees, to approach unnoticed if possible, fly body to Bethesda

HMX Squadron, Anacostia,the Hot Team, flew back to Quantico,motorcade took 45 or 46 minutes

 The actual intentof those controlling theautopsy, Gawler's FuneralHome, Tom Robinson

 The body wasremoved before the swearing-in,reunite his body with the casket at Walter Reed

 Early entry toperform inspection, post-mortem/pre-autopsy surgery, remove evidence of frontalshots

 Walter Reed, 1997Dr. Dick Davis, AFIP,all set to do a craniotomy, the body never arrived

 Originally to go toWalter Reed, altered there, then Humes and Boswell toserve as dupes,

 Dallascasket/ambulance lost andfound on Bethesda grounds, signed letters ofsilence

Lipsey (HSCA)mentions decoy ambulance, diagram ofwounds description, three hits from behind

 Humes told FBI twoshots, the chain of custody was broken, a clandestine operation was afoot

 Remaining minutesof the recording? recordings made at Liberty, WHCA property

Salandria,White, Manning,fingering the lone assassin way too early in the game, absurd

 Crown/Behn/Bundy,sceptical, wonderful if another tape showed up, government search, they refused

 Behind a wall ofsilence, risk, blame and exposure, raise a massive uproar, political cowardice

 Covered up in the60's by guilty men and to prevent WWIII, perpetuated by cowards

 We don't need to beprotected from the truth, AARB cop-out, no official investigation orconclusions

 Anna Nelson, DeMohrenschildt linkedto VP Johnson, FBI bugged KBG,Johnson responsible

 SS InspectorGeneral Tom Kelley opposeda bill making Pres. assassination afederal crime

 Melvin Eisenberg memo, EarlWarren, to shut down rumors Johnson was involved

 Brain, tissueslides, photographs, x-rays missing, altered, accessory after the fact

 Pre-autopsysurgery? Robinson sawhead sawed open, x-raytechnician Ed Reed, the forehead, photographs, x-rays

 8:00 "autopsy", altering the wounds, expand thehead wound, destruction ofevidence, a charade

 Secret or shadowgovernment still in control? Eisenhower warned us,Military/Industrial complex

 Jeremy Gunn,ARRB charter forbade investigation and conclusions, Blakey,a limited hangout

 Autopsy attendees?A list,unusual, LeMay was there to gloat, the gallery wasfull, Galloway/Burkley

 Thomas Jefferson,

 Hooverand Johnson, essential enablers, Sibert and O'Neill report,"surgery of the head area"

 The WC buried thatevidence, Ebersol,Gerald Custer,story kept changing, Ed Reed,occipital

 Boswell ARRB deposition,bone missing, but it looked intact, burning ofautopsy notes

 Fink's notesdisappeared, a first draft reviewed without Fink, Capt. Canada,Capt. Stover

Galloway,third written version, Doug's book, Joannides,assigned as CIA liason toHSCA

 A big conspiracy, amassive government cover-up, implemented immediately, too soon

 Do notblindly accept the pronouncements of authority, demand the right to know

Bill,

You've been extremely instrumental in bringing all of this Collin's Radio business to light. It is far more important than

most researchers first imagined it to be. Your pursuit of relevant information about it over the years has led us to a whole

new understanding of what this means.

Kudos--

Thanks Monk, I'm glad others are catching on. There's a lot more to be done on this angle.

Here's some docs from Doug Horne's files - WHCA radio operators After Action Reports.

JFKcountercoup: WHCA Comm Center After Action Reports

BUMP

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Reading these notes it occurred to me that there might be a plausible reason to need 3 caskets -

1. The one he is actually brought in on.

2. The decoy casket

3. Another casket that his body can be transferred to because the surreptitious surgery is performed while the corpse is still in casket 1. Therefore no "cleanup" is necessitated. Just move the body from casket 1 to casket 3. Close casket 1 and dispose of it.

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If Lemay was part of either the casket switching and/or privy to the actual extra surgery that was performed then it would explain his interference at the "official" autopsy. He had to suppress as much evidence as possible, although as we know, some clues remained.

The other thing is that someone other than LeMay performed that surreptitious surgery on the corpse. Obviously, he's not covered in blood and gore at the official autopsy. There are no speaking witnesses to the "other" autopsy so it stands to reason everyone present would have either been a participant of the plot or silenced permanently.

Could Lt. Cmdr. Pitzer be one of the perps here? His death is already suspicious and it was reported that he had some photos and film of one of the autopsies.

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If Lemay was part of either the casket switching and/or privy to the actual extra surgery that was performed then it would explain his interference at the "official" autopsy. He had to suppress as much evidence as possible, although as we know, some clues remained.

The other thing is that someone other than LeMay performed that surreptitious surgery on the corpse. Obviously, he's not covered in blood and gore at the official autopsy. There are no speaking witnesses to the "other" autopsy so it stands to reason everyone present would have either been a participant of the plot or silenced permanently.

Could Lt. Cmdr. Pitzer be one of the perps here? His death is already suspicious and it was reported that he had some photos and film of one of the autopsies.

I don't know if Lemay was a the autopsy or not, but I do not believe that he would have tried to alter the evidence to indicate a Lone Nut was responsible for the assassination, because the whole point of setting up Oswald as The Patsy was to blame the Dealey Plaza operation on the Cuban Commies so they could go to war with Cuba - invade, like they wanted to do during Cuban Missile Crisis and were prevented from doing.

Lemay would have been Gung Ho to keep the Cuban Commie Conspiracy together - the original cover story - and it was LBJ who switched the plan from one to the other.

It appears, from the tapes, he was keeping track of the body, and his chief exec had a very important message for him, a fact he had to know before he landed, a fact that may have diverted his destination from Andrews to DC National.

BK

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Yes Bill, so LeMay could get to Bethesda quicker.

I don't think altering wounds to set up Oswald as the lone shooter necessarily meant that there would be no perceived communist conspiracy. After all the conspirators tried, and did a pretty good job of bolstering Oswald's left wing bonafides - with Oswald's help of course, witting or not. LBJ certainly pressed home the necessity of portraying Oswald as acting on his own, but whoever was instrumental in creating the Oswald commie image had other ends in mind.

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STOP! HOLD THE PRESSES!

THIS JUST IN. Jeff Morley has an OpEd piece in Sundays Dallas Morning News, which refers to the Air Force One radio tapes and lists them as among the most significant records still being withheld, after the CIA records.

Jeff mentions the fact that the tapes in the public record are severely edited, and estimates that there may be as much as 240 minutes of tape edited from the tape that was released to the public in the 1970s and the tape discovered in 2011.

The math behind the estimated 240 minutes is based on what Doug Horne wrote in his book, "Inside the ARRB": (Vol. V, p. 1662)

"As an ARRB staff member I was very concerned with determining whether or not a significant portion of time had been excised from the original recordings. Anyone concerned with this exercise must begin with the flight time from Love Field back to Andrews AFB: 2 hours, and 17 minutes. Next, since Trimble had written that he had 'three phone patches going simultaneously most of the time," it is wise to take a conservative approach....two hours times three radio circuits = six hours of unedited voice conversations as the length of the unedited Air Force One tapes from November 22, 1963. Since the tapes at the Archives II are a maximum of two hours in length, approximately four hours have been excised. It appears safe to say, then, that the amount of time edited out of the existing tapes is twice as long as the length of the information released by the LBJ Library. This is extremely disturbing."

So the 240 minutes estimated to have been excised from the original unedited tapes comes from Doug Horne's "conservative" figure of four hours or 240 minutes.

BK

Edited by William Kelly
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