Ed Epstein's tale of George De Mohrenschildt's last day

[Michael Hogan]

Hi Tom,

Any chance you could post all the pages of the HSCA's report on Marina's contradictions? I swear I used to have it but I can't seem to find it now and I'm too lazy to carry on looking.

Martin, I'm glad you have resumed posting. Your contributions here have always had value.

You and Lee have done a good job pointing out some of the weaknesses inherent in so many of Paul's posts.

On another thread, I found it extremely tedious to have a dialogue with Paul for reasons not dissimilar to what you and Lee have encountered on this thread.

Here's the link to that HSCA report: http://educationforu...04

[Paul Trejo]

Hi Tom,

Any chance you could post all the pages of the HSCA's report on Marina's contradictions? I swear I used to have it but I can't seem to find it now and I'm too lazy to carry on looking.

Martin, I'm glad you have resumed posting. Your contributions here have always had value.

You and Lee have done a good job pointing out some of the weaknesses inherent in so many of Paul's posts.

On another thread, I found it extremely tedious to have a dialogue with Paul for reasons not dissimilar to what you and Lee have encountered on this thread.

Here's the link to that HSCA report: http://educationforu...04

Thank you, Michael.

I had to chuckle to myself when I followed that link to a post of me asking for the report and you providing it!

Must be getting forgetful in my old age.

Martin and Michael - that list of alleged "contradictions" of Marina Oswald is the most superficial nonsense I can imagine on the topic.

Sometimes Lee was clean and tidy -- sometimes Lee was sloppy. Sometimes Lee wanted to be rid of Marina -- sometimes Lee clung hard to Marina. Sometimes Lee gave Marina small sums of money -- sometimes Lee have her no money at all.

Depending on the context of the questioning, one hears Marina answering truthfully (in her broken English) the questions at hand. But the so-called contradictions collected by John Armstrong (as shown in that hyperlink) takes a scholastic approach of Either/Or -- either Lee was tidy or he was sloppy. He can't be both! So, Marina is a xxxx!

It is one of the weakest papers I've ever read on this topic. It has all the force of a wet noodle. Pitiful.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

[Paul Trejo]

Not wanting to discuss the fact you made evidence up out of thin air to support your definitive statements? Ah, shucks. Why not? Because you are in a "minority" here who only deals in hard evidence?

Damn right you're in a minority. There aren't very many other people here who make stuff up the way you make stuff up. Thank heavens you're in a minority. Any more like you and this forum would be empty.

You've got a damn cheek trying to berate and put down other members here. You are a disgrace and represent the very worst type of "researcher" forums like this attract. You are someone who will do and say anything to keep your personal fantasy going - truth be damned.

As for making anything up -- far from it. I provided the official FBI report as I promised. That's an official document, Lee, and if you can't accept that, then -- well, actually, I'm not surprised, given your results.

As for insulting people here -- that's not something I do; that's obviously something you bother with.

As for JFK research -- I have a theory and not a fantasy. I can't say the same thing about one-sided thinkers.

Regards,

--Paul

Edited April 25, 2013 by Paul Trejo

[Paul Trejo]

...I think it is obvious to everyone why both I and Martin would have been interested in seeing Police Reports of allegations of violence because there would surely have been some sort of POLICE investigation. The Jim Hosty report is completely worthless for many different reasons that I'm sure you are completely clueless about, or instead, you have discovered and assigned them to the trash can because they undermine your fantasy, ahem, "theory."

Actually, Lee, this official FBI report includes complaints from neighbors -- if you actually read it.

Secondly, FBI agents qualify as policemen -- Federal policemen.

You say, Lee, that this FBI report by James Hosty is "worthless." Well, that's your opinion, but it only shows how biased you are.

Here is a perfectly valid Federal police report about complaints regarding Lee Harvey Oswald beating his wife -- and you simply respond, "worthless!"

Such a response fails the test of objective argumentation.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited April 26, 2013 by Paul Trejo

[Paul Baker]

You've got a damn cheek trying to berate and put down other members here. You are a disgrace and represent the very worst type of "researcher" forums like this attract. You are someone who will do and say anything to keep your personal fantasy going - truth be damned.

I'm drowning in an ocean of irony!

I've asked for my account to be deleted, due in large part to your aggressive and threatening behaviour. No doubt that makes you feel rather happy.

Paul.

[Paul Baker]

Paul Baker is leaving?

The forum is a poorer place for us all.

The "scientist" who tried to rehab the discredited NAA bullet lead analysis via Ken Rahn while rejecting the likes of Spiegelman, Tobin, Grant and Randich.

Science will never recover.

Thanks, Jim. I hope you eventually discover what really happened on that fateful day.

No hard feelings, all the best.

Paul.

[Paul Baker]

Good luck. When I asked on several occasions to have my account deleted nothing happened. I hope you are more successful than I was.

I'm sure you are. Who did you ask?

Paul.

[John Dolva]

I'm fairly experienced with resigning from this forum. The one that sticks to mind most was using an 'on strike' jpg as avatar and an f u in my signature. (no one ever asked what the f u stood for but it raised sufficient reports and I was asked to delete it and replace my avatar in a certain time and in not doing so I became a supended member by choice. I think it took me about six months to come to my senses and did as asked as per a communique' and I could post again. Today I rather think that the Education Forum is an honor to belong to. I never have and never will want to be a member of any other forum. My participation will continue to reduce and I'll not be a member again some time but then it will be for good, in all senses of the phrase.

edit typos

Edited April 26, 2013 by John Dolva

[Paul Trejo]

BUMP

Edited April 29, 2013 by Paul Trejo

[Mark Wengler]

Paul i hope you stay enjoy reading your post.

[Paul Trejo]

You claimed, in black and white, that neighbours PHONED THE POLICE on Lee Oswald because he was beating his wife.

Is this true?

Yes or no?

Would you answer the question I asked, please?

The answer, Lee, is no, I was somewhat mistaken. I'd remembered an FBI report in which James Hosty interviewed Lee Harvey Oswald's landlord, and the landlord reported that the neighbors complained to him, the landlord, about Lee Harvey Oswald beating Marina.

The neighbor exclaimed to the landlord, "I think he's killing her this time!"

The FBI agent, James Hosty, took the report from the landlord, and not from the neighbors. When I remembered this official, Federal police report, it slipped my mind that the neighbors had told the landlord, and not the local police.

So -- I was partly mistaken but also partly correct -- there is an official -- FBI report -- about Lee Harvey Oswald beating his wife. Yet somehow I don't expect you to accept anything that disagrees with your fixed ideas on the topic.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited April 28, 2013 by Paul Trejo

[Paul Trejo]

...The report you have posted completely undermines your conclusions and leads to something much bigger and much more important within the JFK assassination story than Lee being a "wife beater."

No, Lee, you haven't shown that here. The FBI report by James Hosty reported that Lee Harvey Oswald was a wife-beater. That is a matter of official record, and it's an important element in the JFK assassination. You refuse to acknowledge the historical fact.

Certainly there are larger issues in the JFK assassination than Oswald's reported wife-beating -- but you haven't identified them.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

[Paul Trejo]

This is why nearly everybody here is completely frustrated with you or instead want nothing to do with you.

Explain why Hosty decided to do nothing with the information given that he was told, as a "Federal Police Officer", that one of the neighbours thought Oswald was going to kill Marina. He knew where they were living after speaking to Tobias yet he backed off.

Let's forget why Tobias, and the phantom neighbour, did nothing, Give me an explanation why Hosty asked for a 45-60 day cooling off period before speaking to Marina given he was told she was suffering numerous severe beatings at the hands of a suspected communist.

Blah, blah, blah, Lee. You make no sense at all. In any case, I've moved your obsession with this FBI report to your thread, "Neighbors Phoned the Police on LHO". That way we can get this thread back on its own track.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

[Paul Trejo]

BUMP

Edited April 29, 2013 by Paul Trejo

[Paul Trejo]

Getting back to the theme of this thread...Ed Epstein's tale of George De Mohrenschildt's last day...

George De Mohrenschildt probably blew his own brains out on that fateful day -- it probably wasn't suicide. My reasoning is that he left a suicide note, which the HSCA published in full -- it is the booklet that George wrote entitled, I'm A Patsy! I'm A Patsy!

Reading that document with historical nuance explains much about George De Mohrenschildt's thinking. He recounts the problem of ex-General Ediwn Walker (the only US President to resign in the 20th century). He says that he and "somebody" -- he still withheld the name of this person until the very last day of his life -- worked on Oswald with psychological methods to convert Oswald from a blustering Marine who condemned JFK for the Bay of Pigs, into a liberal who hated the racist, segregationist ex-General Walker.

It did not take long for researchers to learn the name of that mystery person -- it was Volkmar Schmidt (no relation to Larrie or Robbie Schmidt). Volkmar Schmidt has already told his side of the story to many researchers, including our own William Kelley. It was at a party in February, 1963. Ex-General Walker had just been acquitted of all charges for his role in fomenting the race riots at Ole Miss University in which hundreds had been wounded and two were killed. Liberals were livid.

Volkmar Schmidt, surrounded by many at this party, plied his psychological craft on Lee Oswald for hours -- until Oswald channeled his resentment against JFK into resentment against Walker. The experiment was a success, and the liberal attendees were satisfied and impressed. Party over? Not quite.

Only weeks later Oswald began dramatizing his newfound political orientation. He purchased a rifle and a pistol, and he took photographs of Walker's house, and he took photographs of himself with his new 'fascist hunter' weapons. George De Mohrenshildt, in is final confession, admits that he and Lee Oswald began calling General Walker "General Fokker" and laughed and laughed.

For some odd reason, George could not bring himself to admit within the pages of, I'm A Patsy! I'm A Patsy!, to name Volkmar Schmidt in that connection. He lied -- actually -- when he wrote that the psychologist in question "might have been Jewish." Jewish?!?

George De Mohrenschildt hadn't forgotten his good friend Volkmar Schmidt. Only weeks earlier than his alleged suicide George begged Volkmar to move in with him and his family. Volkmar declined because George had become a mere shell of his former self, and appeared dangerous to Schmidt.

Yet George was lucid enough in his final testament to remember that he and Lee Harvey Oswald had referred to Volkmar Schmidt as "Messer Schmidt" and they would laugh together.

There was a bittersweet memory about all of this in the pages of his last writing. But there was also a sense of withholding -- specifically about the ex-General Walker affair. This was the moment when everything spun out of control for the dapper George De Mohrenschildt.

The day that Oswald (allegedly) shot at Walker, on 10 April 1963, George's heart sank. He had broken Oswald. He and his wife. Jeanne, looked at each other -- could it be Lee Oswald? They nervously devised a plan. Late at night before Easter Sunday, they took a toy bunny to the Oswald's as a pretext to search their house for a rifle with a scope on it. They found it. They never saw the Oswald's again. (However, on Easter Sunday, George did tell his friends, Mr. and Mrs. Igor Voshinin of his suspicions, and Mrs. Voshinin called the FBI as soon as he left their house, TMWKTM).

Everything fell to pieces for George after that. Although the CIA had set up George with a sweet oil exploration deal in Haiti, the Haiti government would gradually lose interest in George after the JFK assassination. He lost that deal, which would have earned George a substantial fortune. George died penniless. Lee Harvey Oswald had been his downfall as well.

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo