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Ed Epstein's tale of George De Mohrenschildt's last day


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Paul,

It looks like he is trying to pin it on Castro: http://jfkfacts.org/...astro-assassin/

Best,

Mark

Either that or he's deliberately stirring up controversy in advance of the upcoming 50th anniversary of the unsolved murder of JFK to be observed in Dallas, Texas in November. Record book sales. Crazy like a fox.

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

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This is kind of weird.

First, Mark, it was not an article or a story he was writing. It was the book Legend.

He had a whole crew of researchers, including Henry Hurt. The total budget was 750, 000 dollars.

And Epstein was not unknowingly used. James Angleton was the consultant on the book. You can tell this by Epstein's spin on the Nosenko affair, which is total 100 per cent Angleton, and is wrong.

Also, from my understanding the DA did more than just question him about the address book. Bludworth traced his phone calls and found out he was meddling around and playing mind games with the Baron.

Finally, I am really surprised he told you he thought the CIA killed Kennedy. Because since the late 1960's when he turned on Garrison and the critics, he has, in public, been an Oswald did it guy. As can be seen by his appearance in Robert Stone's abominable Oswald's Ghost.

I don't trust Epstein with anything on this case. Berendt is the guy who wrote the piece in Esquire about the guy form Philly who ended up in Dallas inexplicably on 11/22/63: Vaganov. Then, Epstein did an article for Esquire in 1968 which tried to ridicule all the critical community by reducing everything to some kind of 'angle", like the Nash Rambler angle, the Second Oswald angle etc. Instead of looking at the overall gestalt view of the case.

I have always been of the school that Epstein may have been a plant from the start.

Not sure if I already commented on this before or not but I concur with Jim D : A plant from the start.

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How much was Epstein in Angleton's employ?

He once stated that Angleton was not really fooled by Philby. He actually was onto him and then Philby transmitted info to him once he defected. In other words, Philby was really a triple agent. (BTW, that Epstein wannabe Ron Rosenbaum actually echoed this idea in the eighties.)

Epstein is a real piece of work.

Wow, JIm check out today's Slate mag for Rosenbaum's latest disimfo trash on LHO.

Dawn

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I have always found the orchid story and the room full of mirrors and smoke fascinating.

I think Angleton was a Genius. I think Angleton was at least a Sociopath. I would not be surprised if he was Psychotic on some level. These are not mutually exclusive traits but there is a trait to play mindgames. I think the allegories can be read as a revelation of his real thought on the assassination, a map of sorts or a guide to navigating the scape to arrive at the truth.

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By saying you don't believe that Oswald was a shooter at ex-General Walker, Jim, aren't you saying that Marina Oswald was a xxxx? But if so, I believe that is a shaky position.

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

Of course she lied. I thought everyone knew that. Paul I could not finish your post after I got to the part where LHO shot Walker. Everyone is welcome to his/her beliefs. LHO shot no-one.

Dawn

Dawn, if you're arguing from Jim Garrison's famous theory that on 22 November 1963 "Lee Oswald shot no one at all," that is, Lee shot neither Tippit nor Kennedy, then I'll counter by maintaining that Garrison omitted the 10 April 1963 shooting in that theory. (Oddly, Garrison had little to say about General Edwin Walker, and that's too bad).

However, Dawn, if you're claiming that Lee Harvey Oswald was a pacifist, then I'll counter that Lee was an ex-Marine sharpshooter who kept his own firearms.

Also, if you believe that Marina Oswald was lying, then you're challenged to explain how her story harmonized with George and Jeanne De Mohrenshildt's testimony to the Warren Commission, as well as Mrs. and Mrs. Igor Voshinin's account to Dick Russell, as well as Volkmar Schmidt's account to several journalists, as well as Michael and Ruth Paine's later anecdotes, and more.

To discount so much testimony at once one must postulate a Grand Conspiracy in which all these people were players -- and that would be extremely challenging to prove. That much testimony is unlikely to be orchestrated. But I'll keep an open mind if you have evidence I haven't read yet.

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

<edit typos>

How do we know that she was being properly translated? Pressure is a huge understatement. Her "testimony" reads like a bad Hollywood script. Which it was, in my opinion.

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Guest Tom Scully

...........

Dawn, if you're arguing from Jim Garrison's famous theory that on 22 November 1963 "Lee Oswald shot no one at all," that is, Lee shot neither Tippit nor Kennedy, then I'll counter by maintaining that Garrison omitted the 10 April 1963 shooting in that theory. (Oddly, Garrison had little to say about General Edwin Walker, and that's too bad).

However, Dawn, if you're claiming that Lee Harvey Oswald was a pacifist, then I'll counter that Lee was an ex-Marine sharpshooter who kept his own firearms.

Also, if you believe that Marina Oswald was lying, then you're challenged to explain how her story harmonized with George and Jeanne De Mohrenshildt's testimony to the Warren Commission, as well as Mrs. and Mrs. Igor Voshinin's account to Dick Russell, as well as Volkmar Schmidt's account to several journalists, as well as Michael and Ruth Paine's later anecdotes, and more.

To discount so much testimony at once one must postulate a Grand Conspiracy in which all these people were players -- and that would be extremely challenging to prove. That much testimony is unlikely to be orchestrated. But I'll keep an open mind if you have evidence I haven't read yet.

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

<edit typos>

How do we know that she was being properly translated? Pressure is a huge understatement. Her "testimony" reads like a bad Hollywood script. Which it was, in my opinion.

Oss Against the Reich: The World War II Diaries of Colonel David ... - Page 222

55]

books.google.com/books?isbn=087338427X

, Nelson D. Lankford - 1991 -
-

A partner in Russell Forgan's firm, investment banker Walter M.
Giblin
(1901- 1964) was chief of the OSS service branch in the European
...
Playwright
George Brewer
, Jr., conducted a successful OSS Special Operations network in Stockholm.

- ...
Lunched with Colonel Giblin and George Brewer
,33 who has just returned from Sweden, at the American Club. I saw Ambassador Winant this morning.

WALTER M, GIBLIN, BROKER, 6, DEAD; [ General Partner of...

‎New York Times - May 2, 1964

Giblin was a director and member of the executive committee the Norwich Pharmac,31 Company and a director of the Howard Johnson Company, the Sealright...

Mate Given 200,000 In Star's Will .

‎St. Petersburg Independent - Jan 1, 1958

Tho 60-year-old actress left all her jewelry and her interest in Joseph Schenck Productions sister. Constance Giblin of New York City. ...

Silent Screen Star Leaves 200,000 In...‎ Ocala Star-Banner

Norma Talmadge Dies: Star Of Silent Screen .Former Movie...

‎Pittsburgh Post-Gazette - Dec 25, 1957

Her first marriage was to movie mogul Joseph Schenck, in 1916 It was deemed ... Constance, now Mrs. Walter Giblin, is . Miss Talmadge was reputedly one of

http://educationforu...84

amsterdam3.jpg

Photograph Caption:

"President Howard B. Johnson (seated left) pinpoints Amsterdam on his map of the world for Howard Cummings, corporate executive vice president/operations; Herbert Pulitzer, license operator; Gen. Frederik Kruls, consultant to KLM Royal Dutch Airlines; and Joseph Dryer, co-operator or our first foreign facility."

Note the failure to recognize the Nassau Howard Johnson's as a foreign facility.

From war to Hemingway, a Palm Beacher's adventurous life | www ...

www.palmbeachpost.com › Entertainment

Feb 16, 2013 – Joe Dryer Jr., 91, at his home in Palm Beach, Fla., Thursday, January ... repeatedly while, as he put it, American “troops were killed like flies.” ... after Iwo Jima, he was one of 12 combat officers selected by the Marine Corps to create a plan to destroy the center of Russia's steel industry....

Joan Mellen has a crush on Joe Dryer.:

Our Man In Haiti: George de Mohrenschildt and ... - JOAN MELLEN

joanmellen.com/.../haitian-art-gallery-presentation-our-man-in-haiti-...Mar 29, 2013 – If I have to mention the most surprising information that I discovered it is that Joe Dryer made contact with George de Mohrenschildt, whom he ...

JOAN MELLEN | Official website of Author and Temple University ...

www.joanmellen.com/

Joan Mellen Interview with WLRN Miami on “Our Man in Haiti: Our Man In Haiti: George de Mohrenschildt and the CIA in the Nightmare Republic

......................

Continuing from my post of a day ago, apparently neither Peter Whitmey nor anyone else who read his research into Priscilla Johnson McMillan ever bothered to find that her first cousin, David Coit Davenport was the son-in-law of the WWII OSS officer George E. Brewer, Jr., planner and overseer of William Colby's operations in Norway in March, 1945.

http://www.jfk-info.com/pjm-2.htm

Part Two

by Peter R. Whitmey

................

15. In Marina and Lee, there is a photo of Priscilla and Marina taken by David C. Davenport, who is referred to as Priscilla's "cousin" in the acknowledgement section. According to the caption next to the photos, they were taken in Santa Fe, where they were provided "a haven during the unquiet weeks of September and October, 1964, just after the Warren Report was issued."

When I first tried to contact Priscilla McMillan in the fall of 1987 in Cambridge by phone after initially writing to her, I was informed that she was temporarily living in Santa Fe at a hotel, doing research on a new book.....

Santa Fe New Mexican, Tuesday, October 02, 2001, Page 10

newspaperarchive.com › ... › Tuesday, October 02, 2001

Oct 2, 2001 – Lawrence Journal World Tuesday, October 02, 2001 , .... memorials DAVID COIT DAVENPORT David Colt Davenport world for freedom on ... and His career encompassed a number of fields from intelligence to law to teaching ...

In 1950, David Coit Davenport was a reserve officer of the rank of Captain, called away from his employer;

this man.: Perkins Bass. As you can see by the information displayed in the image linked in the immediately prior sentence, Dave Davenport was a familiar figure to his Princeton '43 classmates and I find that he reported his circumstances several times over the years to his fellow alumni, yet there is no Davenport obituary on the Princeton website.

Law Firm History : Sheehan Phinney Bass + Green PA : New ...

http://www.sheehan.comAbout the Firm

In 1937, renowned trial lawyer John J. "Jack" Sheehan joined forces with a young FBI attorney, William L. Phinney, to start a firm in Manchester, New Hampshire. Although both saw active duty in World War II, the firm continued to serve clients. After the war, Perkins Bass, a military intelligence officer and former law clerk,....

Perkins Bass .From Washington .

‎The Telegraph - May 26, 1960

My World War experi ences as an Air Combat Intelligence Officer with General ... We found that aerial photographs provided 1 he most reliable and up-to-date ... U-2 spy plane....

2 Kennedy Aides Scored As 'Literary Scavengers'

New York Times - Aug 7, 1965

Perkins Bass, Republican national committeeman, charged today that books written ... Intelligence Agency] procedures to give our enemies a clear picture of ...

The official obituary of Perkins Bass | Concord Monitor

http://www.concordmo...2-95/story.html

Oct 26, 2011 – Charlie Bass released this obituary for his father, Perkins Bass: ... under the command of General Clare Chennault of the Flying Tigers. He was ....

"VPP" = views per post (I am guessing VPP measures reaction of ________ to original vs. regurgitated.)

Bernard Fensterwald .... Started by John Simkin, 02 Aug 2005 24 replies 158,080 views 6587 VPP

Did the C.I.A. "Sheep Dip" and Orchestrate the Tale of the Patsy,..... Started 17 May 2012 38 replies 184,012 views 4842 VPP

Harry Dean: Memoirs .... Started by Harry J.Dean, 01 Jul 2005 161 replies 41,389 views 257 VPP

Edwin Walker ...Started by Jim Root, 11 Dec 2004 312 replies 61,518 views 197 VPP

JFK and the Ku Klux Klan.... Started by John Simkin, 09 Dec 2012 297 replies 53,718 views 181 VPP

Judyth Vary Baker: Living in Exile.... Started by James H. Fetzer, 28 Feb 2010 3,029 replies 405,569 views 134 VPP

Vincent Bugliosi, DVP and CTKA .... Started by Jim DiEugenio, 22 Aug 2010 826 replies 42,799 views 51 VPP

Paul, now seems an opportune time as any to do some bump posting and bring some threads back to the first page in the hope of attracting wider exposure / interest. Post a disclaimer telling your intended viewers you are not responsible for omitting details you are unaware of.

Edited by Tom Scully
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How do we know that she [Marina] was being properly translated? Pressure is a huge understatement. Her "testimony" reads like a bad Hollywood script. Which it was, in my opinion.

Dawn, although the English-as-a-Second-Language issue with regard to Marina Oswald's sworn testimony before the Warren Commission will always be interesting, it's not as though the Russian language is from outer space.

If anybody wants to research her Russian language depositions, I believe they're readily available. Lots of Americans speak Russian, so it wouldn't be so hard to make a case.

While poor English skill was certainly a problem for Marina -- who tried to teach herself English despite Lee Oswald's efforts to suppress her -- the more vital question, IMHO, is whether her negative stories about Lee remain plausible.

Oswald was a wife-beater. We have police reports to that effect, as well as neighbors in Dallas who called the police on Lee. When Marina told the Warren Commission that Lee Harvey Oswald beat her -- this was not from some script that she was ordered to read. She told a truth that could be verified beyond the bruises on her body and face that would heal.

Lee Oswald kept Marina in a closet, so to speak. He was interested in keeping Marina "barefoot and pregnant" as the saying goes. George De Mohrenschildt winced when he saw how Lee treated her. Lee hardly allowed her to say anything, for fear that people might consider her more interesting than him. This wasn't merely Marina's complaint -- George DM said the same thing. Here's the testimony:

-------------------- Begin GDM testimony snippet 23 April 1964 ----------------------

. . .

Mr. JENNER. You think Lee resented that, do you – that the interest was in Marina and not in Lee Oswald?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes; definitely. Oh, that is an exceedingly important point, you know. Lee resented the interest that people would take in Marina. He wanted the interest concentrated on himself.

Mr. JENNER. And did he exhibit that in your home and at other gatherings where you saw him? Did he interrupt so that the attention might be drawn to him and away from her?

. . .

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. ...I do not remember any particular case, but I always took him and considered him as an egocentric person. I do not remember any particular incident, but I knew that he wanted the attention to himself, always. Not in any particular case, but always. And he would rather disregard what Marina would say. And this is possibly the reason for his not wanting to – for Marina to learn English, so she would stay completely in the background.

. . .

-------------------- End GDM testimony snippet 23 April 1964 ----------------------

So, it wasn't that Marina's testimony against her husband Lee was scripted by somebody else -- it was open and honest and other people who knew Lee also knew that he was boorish. Yes, he had a tender side, and was kind to his own children. But he could also be selfish and cruel.

I have seen no hard evidence that causes me to doubt Marina Oswald's testimony.

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited by Paul Trejo
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Guest Tom Scully

Paul, the first thing a visitor to this JFK Debate forum sees is your avatar, just to the right of the pinned thread titled, "Who Killed JFK?" If said visitor is unlucky enough to read your recent post on the most prominent thread,

their first impression of this forum will be your intro, "If i were pressed for a guess today, I would say that the white-supremacist organizations in the South, led by two bitter losers,...."

Do I have this right? You exempt yourself from posting statements unsupported by "hard evidence"?

Compare your presentation in your last post (immediately above this one) to the presentations in the post at this link, http://educationforu...=15#entry271663

...and to the post after it.

Still you persist, posting counter to the factual record.

.......

So, it wasn't that Marina's testimony against her husband Lee was scripted by somebody else -- it was open and honest and other people who knew Lee also knew that he was boorish. Yes, he had a tender side, and was kind to his own children. But he could also be selfish and cruel.

I have seen no hard evidence that causes me to doubt Marina Oswald's testimony.

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited by Tom Scully
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Oswald was a wife-beater. We have police reports to that effect, as well as neighbors in Dallas who called the police on Lee.

Where are these "reports"?

Please provide the police reports that state Lee Oswald beat his wife. If you are going down the route of the Elsbeth complaints I'd prefer it you provide THE WHOLE STORY and not just the juicy bits that you think support your skewed characterisation of Lee Oswald. Tell everybody what happened once the complaint was made or do you not know so you are simply working from a place of complete ignorance? I know providing the WHOLE STORY that exists in the record is something you do not like doing, but for the sake of accuracy concerning the information on this forum, I want you to provide evidence for your absolutist statements regarding these police reports.

I had a comment removed from one of my posts that was factual about you. Yet you think you can write complete and utter absurdities that are not backed up by the record unless you take the word of a proven xxxx along with the comments of her White Russian friends who are also proven liars.

Where are the police reports?

Lee, I'm surprised that you need to ask about these Dallas Police reports. They're more than 50 years old. It's surprising that you seem to have never seen them or even heard of them. You're kidding, right?

Regards,

--Paul

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I haven't read this whole thread, but since it's supposed to be about De Mohrenschildt's last day, I was struck by something I read in the JFK/Deep Politics Quarterly. It states that Bill O'Reilly in his book Killing Kennedy claims that he was on De Mohrenschildt's doorstep that day and actually heard the fatal shot.

If he does claim this, I wonder if O'Reilly knows or cares that Gaeton Fonzi in his book The Last Investigation mentions that O'Reilly called him that day from Dallas, where O'Reilly worked as a reporter, to ask him if the rumor was true that De Mohrenschildt had committed suicide.

Bill O'Reilly: "The spin stops here!"

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I haven't read this whole thread, but since it's supposed to be about De Mohrenschildt's last day, I was struck by something I read in the JFK/Deep Politics Quarterly. It states that Bill O'Reilly in his book Killing Kennedy claims that he was on De Mohrenschildt's doorstep that day and actually heard the fatal shot.

If he does claim this, I wonder if O'Reilly knows or cares that Gaeton Fonzi in his book The Last Investigation mentions that O'Reilly called him that day from Dallas, where O'Reilly worked as a reporter, to ask him if the rumor was true that De Mohrenschildt had committed suicide.

Bill O'Reilly: "The spin stops here!"

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=19604entry266111

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I haven't read this whole thread, but since it's supposed to be about De Mohrenschildt's last day, I was struck by something I read in the JFK/Deep Politics Quarterly. It states that Bill O'Reilly in his book Killing Kennedy claims that he was on De Mohrenschildt's doorstep that day and actually heard the fatal shot.

If he does claim this, I wonder if O'Reilly knows or cares that Gaeton Fonzi in his book The Last Investigation mentions that O'Reilly called him that day from Dallas, where O'Reilly worked as a reporter, to ask him if the rumor was true that De Mohrenschildt had committed suicide.

Bill O'Reilly: "The spin stops here!"

I don't expect to find any cloak-and-dagger intrigue in the life of a journalist, Ron, and I would be surprised to find any in the life of Bill O'Reilly.

What I would expect to find in the life of a journalist is exaggeration, hyperbole, sensationalism, and fantasy. Whatever sells.

O'Reilly clearly had nothing to add of value in his recent book on the JFK assassination. He repeated the Lone Nut theory to a weary world, and then interposed himself at the scene-of-the-suicide of George De Mohrenschildt. What nonsense.

Rarely do so many good trees die in vain to produce paper for such rubbish. O'Reilly has lost his appetite for the truth and has long since rationalized his appetite for lucre at any cost.

He's pitiful to watch on TV, interrupting guests so much better informed than he is. But, hey, if they're dumb enough to appear on his program, then they get just what they deserve. I weep for American TV audiences.

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

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I don't expect to find any cloak-and-dagger intrigue in the life of a journalist, Ron, and I would be surprised to find any in the life of Bill O'Reilly.

I knew it was a lie, I just didn't know he was so utterly shameless.

I've managed to get an advance copy of his new book Killing Jesus. In it he claims that he was at the Garden of Gethsemane hoping to get an interview when they came and arrested Jesus. "It was during a past life regression with a hypnotist friend of mine. I saw Jesus as they led him away. He looks just like the Shroud of Turin."

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I don't expect to find any cloak-and-dagger intrigue in the life of a journalist, Ron, and I would be surprised to find any in the life of Bill O'Reilly.

I knew it was a lie, I just didn't know he was so utterly shameless.

I've managed to get an advance copy of his new book Killing Jesus. In it he claims that he was at the Garden of Gethsemane hoping to get an interview when they came and arrested Jesus. "It was during a past life regression with a hypnotist friend of mine. I saw Jesus as they led him away. He looks just like the Shroud of Turin."

Omigosh, it sounds like a case of egomania run amok.

--Paul

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I don't expect to find any cloak-and-dagger intrigue in the life of a journalist, Ron, and I would be surprised to find any in the life of Bill O'Reilly.

I knew it was a lie, I just didn't know he was so utterly shameless.

I've managed to get an advance copy of his new book Killing Jesus. In it he claims that he was at the Garden of Gethsemane hoping to get an interview when they came and arrested Jesus. "It was during a past life regression with a hypnotist friend of mine. I saw Jesus as they led him away. He looks just like the Shroud of Turin."

Ron, my laugh of the day, thanks.

Dawn

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