I think there is a better than 50/50 chance that DCM is F.Lee Mudd (Update: Almost No Chance)

[Guest Tom Scully]

Uhhhh....Pat ? Unless you are skeptical about this info, I don't understand why you posted much of what you did....

https://groups.googl...jfk/pS2cG5xF4EM

yeuhd View profile More options Feb 26 2010, 1:33 pm

A message from the Genealogy Department of the Shreve Memorial Library

in Shreveport, Louisiana:

"The Mudd who ran the Southside Ranch Shop was Francis Lee Mudd Sr.,

who was married to Faye Katherine or Katherine Faye (maiden name

unknown at this time). His probable son was actually named Lee S.

Mudd, married to Joyce (maiden name unknown presently). Lee S. Mudd is

a forester and is still living.… Francis Lee Mudd was married to

Gertrude in the early 1930's before marrying Faye about 1956, so

Gertrude was probably Lee S. Mudd's mother. Francis Lee Mudd was an

insurance salesman until about 1957, then he ran a gas station in

Keithville (Lee's Cities Service). In 1962, he is shown as the owner

of the Southside Ranch Shop. From 1967 until his death, Francis Lee

Mudd was a representative for Louisiana Hospital Services. Katherine

Faye Mudd, his wife, died in 1994. Hope that this is helpful."

So, combining this with the information in the 1930 U.S. Census and

the Social Security Death Index, we now know that the F. Lee Mudd who

was in Dealey Plaza, and who operated the Southside Ranch Shop, was a

60-year-old white man....

[Mike Rago]

How did the Warren Commission become aware of this person? How did they get his name?

Edited July 11, 2012 by Mike Rago

[Mike Rago]

Does anyone know who this man is(near arrow)? And where did he go?

Couch frame enhanced by Chris Davidson...Where did that man go?

Edited July 11, 2012 by Mike Rago

[Chris Davidson]

Mike,

I believe that is Mr.Chism.

A little later on, they are in various photos traversing the knoll, headed towards the direction of the triple underpass. (Nix and Couch films, also.)

chris

[Mike Rago]

That fellow looks to short to me to be Mr. Chism. Do you have any other images of this man in that location?

Can you please point out Mr. Chism in this Bronson frame?

Is he this man?

Edited July 11, 2012 by Mike Rago

[Mike Rago]

Yes Chris, I agree with you that is John Chism. Thanks for your information.

John Chism was standing on the curb (according to his FBI statement). However the Bronson frame shows that he was standing in the street. This explains (to me) why he appears to be to short in the Willis photo.

The man in the Willis photo appears short because he is standing in the street while the others are standing on the sidewalk.

Chism FBI statement

http://jfkassassinat...bits/ce2091.htm

Edited July 14, 2012 by Mike Rago

[Mike Rago]

While researching this I found the following website. Its in French but you can translate it.

http://jfkthetruth31...u-stemmons.html

Here is the location of F. Lee Mudd stored in the Warren Commission Witness database.(the white dot)

They must have based this location on his FBI report. I can find no photographic evidence to support this location.

Edited July 12, 2012 by Mike Rago

[Mike Rago]

deleted by poster.

Edited July 12, 2012 by Mike Rago

[Pat Speer]

In looking back through the statements and reports regarding Hudson and Mudd, I've noticed that Hudson never described the man with him on the steps as a "young fellow" until 7-22-64, 8 months after the shooting. This leads me to suspect that the man in red was yes indeed Francis Lee Mudd, aged 60, and not his son, and that Hudson's recollection of Mudd's approximate age was simply in error. (Perhaps he'd talked to a young fellow later that day, or even in the minutes after Mudd departed. We'll never know.)

Edited July 12, 2012 by Pat Speer

[Mike Rago]

I actually have thought for a long time that Mudd was describing two different men he was talking to.

Here I think he is referring to the black man that started to run up the steps and disappeared in the shadows...

Mr. HUDSON - Well there was a young fellow, oh, I would judge his age about in his late twenties. He said he had been looking for a place to park and he walked up there and he said he finally just taken a place over there in one of them parking lots, and he come on down there and said he worked over there on Industrial and me and him both just sat there first on those steps. When the motorcade turned off of Houston onto Elm, we got up and stood up, me and him both. He was on the left side and I was on the right and so the first shot rung out and, of course, I didn't realize it was a shot, what was taking place right at that present time, and when the second one rung out, the motorcade had done got further on down Elm, and you see, I was trying to get a good look at President Kennedy. I happened to be looking right at him when that bullet hit him - the second shot.

And here I think he is referring to the Red Shirt man. He uses "standing there with me at the present time"

Mr. HUDSON - No, sir. I'll tell you - this young fellow that was sitting there with me - standing there with me at the present time, he says, "lay down, Mister, somebody is shooting the President." He says, "Lay down, lay down." and he kept repeating, "Lay down." so he was already laying down one way on the sidewalk, so I just laid down over on the ground and resting my arm on the ground and when that third shot rung out and when I was close to the ground - you could tell the shot was coming from above and kind of behind.

Unless I missed it, the lawyer never asks Emmett Hudson about the man who ran up the steps.

Edited July 12, 2012 by Mike Rago

[Ian Kingsbury]

We see red shirt man react vividly to the head shot whilst standing

Then HE mentions another shot while he is prone?.

The shot came from above (while he is prone) and behind(stockade fence/knoll)

Quite a few witnesses recall a shot after the head shot yet while we do not see

Much reaction to a later shot in the film we base our distances on what we can see.

The FBI/SS re-enactment places a shot at 4+95 almost opposite the steps

A 40foot difference on film is not seen but testimonies lead us to believe it.

Witt the erstwhile umbrella man reports doing things we cannot see

In the film. And he was very close to the action.

What sort of protection allows a man (DCM) to just stroll up to the limo

Waving his arms about Durka Durka style.

[Mike Rago]

Ian,

Emmett's memory of the time interval between shots was not very good. He estimated that the time interval between the first and last shots was 2 minutes.

Edited July 15, 2012 by Mike Rago

[Mike Rago]

I have been trying to find out how the Commission became aware of F Lee Mudd as a witness to the assassination. He left the scene without speaking to anyone.

I found this record in the National Archives...It indicates that there must have been an article in the Shreveport Journal about Eyewitness H. Lee Mudd.

http://www.nara.gov/...071/jfksnew.txt

This record indicates to me that the Shreveport Journal responded to the FBI.

I am wondering if that article is in the national archives somewhere.

http://www.nara.gov/...071/jfksnew.txt

This record indicates that the newspaper clipping is in Box 8. Folder Title: Section 40 [2210-2257]

http://www.nara.gov/...071/jfksnew.txt

For completeness here is the last records found

Pat I think you mentioned this article before. Do you have a link to that article?

Edited July 14, 2012 by Mike Rago

[Pat Speer]

I have been trying to find out how the Commission became aware of F Lee Mudd as a witness to the assassination. He left the scene without speaking to anyone.

I found this record in the National Archives...It indicates that there must have been an article in the Shreveport Journal about Eyewitness H. Lee Mudd.

http://www.nara.gov/...071/jfksnew.txt

This record indicates to me that the Shreveport Journal responded to the FBI.

I am wondering if that article is in the national archives somewhere.

http://www.nara.gov/...071/jfksnew.txt

This record indicates that the newspaper clipping is in Box 8. Folder Title: Section 40 [2210-2257]

http://www.nara.gov/...071/jfksnew.txt

For completeness here is the last record I found

http://www.nara.gov/...071/jfksnew.txt

Pat I think you mentioned this article before. Do you have a link to that article?

I found the article online, Mike, but don't recall where. It was either in the Mary Ferrell Foundation website, in the FBI's files, or in the Harold Weisberg Archives. In any event, I knew it had rarely been seen, and transcribed its entirety into my witness database on Mudd.

From patspeer.com, chapter 7:

(11-23-63 article in The Shreveport Journal entitled Local Man Near Kennedy's Car at Time of Shooting) "H. Lee Mudd, who lives on Spring Ridge Road, was standing about 25 feet in front of the car in which President Kennedy was shot Friday in Dallas. 'I heard two reports that sounded like fire crackers,' Mudd said. 'Then I looked and the President had slumped down in his seat.' Mudd, who was in Dallas on a business trip, had taken time off to watch the parade. 'It happened so fast no one could tell exactly what had happened,' he said. 'But we could tell he had been shot and everybody could tell something terrible was going on.'"

[Mike Rago]

It does not appear to me that Mr. Mudd was a voluntary witness. It appears that the FBI determined his existence from an article written in the Shreveport Journal. Apparently , Mr. Mudd did give a short interview to the Shreveport Journal but in that article the man referred to is H. Lee Mudd. I do not know how the Shreveport Journal found out about his existence as a witness.

I am not implying that Mr. Mudd was involved in the assassination in any way. I am suggesting that Mr. Mudd may not have wanted to be identified as a witness in that location.

If Mr. Mudd was Red Shirt Man he was probably well aware of this photo( which showed him on the steps of the Grassy Knoll) at the time of his FBI interview on January 24, 1964. It would have been very easy for him to unambiguously identify himself and his location.

By Saturday, November 23, 1963 the Moorman photo had been widely distributed to hundreds of newspapers and broadcast on national TV. For the history of the Moorman photo publication here is a link to a post by Josiah Thompson

http://educationforu...showtopic=14092

Edited July 14, 2012 by Mike Rago