Harvey and Lee: John Armstrong

[Jim Hargrove]

The Rifle that Should Have Been

Planted on the Sixth Floor

On April 28, 1959 Fidel Castro flew to Houston, Texas in his personal plane to meet with Robert Ray McKeown, his close personal friend who had supplied large quantities of armaments to Castro during the Cuban revolution. Following his arrest and conviction for supplying arms to Castro, McKeown retired from gunrunning and moved to Baycliff, Texas, a suburb of Houston. The small community of Kemah, was adjacent to Baycliff and was where, back in 1957, Jack Ruby stored guns and ammunition for similar activities.

On a Saturday morning (probably August 31, 1963) American-born Lee Oswald and a Cuban man allegedly named “Hernandez” drove a car into McKeown's Baycliff driveway. On the same day, 350 miles east, Russian-speaking Harvey Oswald, with his wife Marina and daughter June, were visiting the Murrets in New Orleans.

Back in Baycliff, the two men soon knocked on Robert McKeown's front door. The American said, "You are McKeown, are you not? I understand that you can supply any amount of arms." McKeown asked for the man's name and he introduced himself as Lee Oswald (not Lee Harvey Oswald). Oswald asked McKeown if he could obtain rifles, and offered to pay him $10,000 for four .300 Savage rifles with scopes. Oswald told McKeown that he needed the rifles for a revolution in San Salvador. Somewhat perplexed, McKeown told Oswald that he could buy the same rifles at Sears & Roebuck for $75 and then asked, "Why come to me?"

McKeown, who was nearing the end of his 5-year probation for running guns to Castro, was leery of Oswald and refused his offer. McKeown told the House Select Committee on Assassinations, "I said, you are not going to get them through me. I did not want anymore part of any kind of rifles. I would not be caught with a rifle. I said, you came to the wrong man, I am not going to get involved, and thank God I did not get them.”

American-born Lee Oswald would soon be appearing all over the Dallas area—at rifle ranges, gun shops, tall buildings, a car dealership--in a now obvious effort to set up Harvey Oswald for the assassination of JFK. Had he succeeded in purchasing weapons from Fidel Castro's personal friend and gunrunner Robert McKeown, can there be any doubt that one of McKeown's .300 Savage rifles with scopes would have been planted on the sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository?

Warren Commission apologists have claimed that McKeown testified at the HSCA for some sort of personal gain—a book deal or something similar. But the truth is that McKeown tried hard not to testify and steadfastly refused to do so until he was granted immunity. His full testimony was kept secret for many years, but can now be read in full right here:

http://jfkassassination.net/russ/m_j_russ/mckeown.htm

Mr. McKeown's immunity: ORDER CONFERRING IMMUNITY UPON AND COMPELLING TESTIMONY FROM ROBERT RAY McKEOWN

The United States House of Representatives Select Committee on Assassinations having made written application, pursuant to Title 18, United States Code, Sections 6002 and 6005, to in order conferring immunity upon Robert Ray McKeown and compelling him to testify and provide other information before the Subcommittee on the assassination of John F. Kennedy of the Select Committee on Assassinations, and the court finding that all procedures specified by S 6005 have been duly followed, it is hereby, this 28th day of March 1978, ORDERED, that Robert Ray McKeown in accordance with the provisions of Title 18, United States Code, Sections 6002 and 6005, shall not be excused from testifying or providing other information before the Subcommittee on the Assassination of John F. Kennedy of the Select Committee on Assassinations on the grounds that the testimony or other information sought may tend to incriminate him. ORDERED FURTHER, that Robert Ray McKeown appear when subpoenaed by said Subcommittee and testify and provide such other information that is sought with respect to matters under inquiry by said Subcommittee. AND IT IS FURTHER ORDERED that no testimony or other information compelled under this order (or any information directly or indirectly derived from such testimony or other information) maybe used against Robert Ray McKeown in any criminal case, except a prosecution for perjury, giving a false statement or otherwise failing to comply with this ORDER.

Edited July 5, 2015 by Jim Hargrove

[Jim Hargrove]

Trading Places

From Harvey and Lee, pp. 201-202:

Switching identities for the last time

Our analysis of Harvey and Lee during the Taiwan period, even though very

short, is extremely important, because it was in Taiwan that Russian-speaking Harvey

Oswald assumed the identity of New Orleans born Lee Oswald.

The documents and witness testimony published in the Warren Volumes that

placed Harvey Oswald in Taiwan caused a lot of trouble for the HSCA in 1978. So much

trouble, in fact, their only option was to lie.

In 1978 the HSCA had the following information concerning Oswald's departure from Atsugi

on September 14 and his presence in Taiwan thru October 6:

* Marine Corps Unit Diary 151-58 p. 744, which showed that Lee Harvey Oswald and his

unit departed Japan on September 14, 1958 aboard the USS Skagit.

* Photographs of military installations taken by Oswald in Taiwan that were recovered by

the Dallas Police.

* An interview with Lieutenant Charles R. Rhodes who served with Harvey Oswald in

Taiwan.⁶⁶ Marine Corps Unit Diary 152-58, p. 747, for September 27, 1958, lists

Charles R. Rhodes as "WestPAC (Western Pacific) in the field.

* The November 4, 1959 message from the Chief of Naval Operations to Moscow saying that

Oswald had served in Taiwan.

* Interviews of Oswald by Aline Mosby and Priscilla Johnson in which Oswald said he had

been in Taiwan.

* Marine Corps Diary 158-58, p. 762, for October 6, 1958, that lists Lee H. Oswald's lo-

cation as "Ping Tung (North) Taiwan."

But the HSCA also had Lee Harvey Oswald's Marine Corps medical records, published in

the Warren Volumes, that showed Oswald was treated at the Atsugi station hospital on nu-

merous occasions between September 14 and October 6. They knew these records placed

"Oswald" in two locations at the same time and needed to find a solution for this problem,

but without interviewing former Marines like Lieutenant Charles Rhodes who knew for a fact

that Oswald had been in Taiwan.

The problem was resolved by Robert Blakey, Chief Counsel for the HSCA. Blakey wrote to

Secretary of Defense Harold Brown and asked a very simple question, "During which peri-

ods was Oswald separated from his units overseas because of hospitalization (BLAKEY

ASKED NOTHING ABOUT TAIWAN). "^{67 58-23} The Department of Defense answered this

question by saying, "Oswald did not sail from Yokosuka, Japan on September 16, 1958. He

remained at NAS (Naval Air Station) Atsugi, as part of the MAG II rear echelon." ^{68 58-24}

The DOD's answer clearly implied that Oswald did not travel to Taiwan, but remained in

Japan. Blakey then allegedly reviewed Oswald's Marine Corps Unit Diaries for MAG II and

allegedly found no reference to Oswald departing from Yokosuka for Taiwan. However, the

Marine Corps Unit Diaries do exist and contain the following notations:

* Marine Corps Diary 151-58, p. 744, for September 14, 1958, reads: "Emb (em-

barked) AKA 1O5 and sailed fr Yokosuku Japan for the South China Sea Area auth

1st MAW ltr 04/303 /lv P16-1 of 29Aug58.

* Marine Corps Diary 158-58, p. 7 62, for October 6, 1958, lists Lee H. Oswald's lo-

cation as "Ping Tung (North) Taiwan."

This means that neither Blakey nor HSCA staff members reviewed the documentation upon

which they based their conclusion. With misleading information from the DOD, and lying

about the contents of the Marine Corps Unit Diaries, Robert Blakey wrote:

"The Department of Defense specifically stated that 'Oswald did not sail from Yokosuka,

Japan on September 16, 1958. He remained aboard NAS Atsugi as part of the MAG-

11 rear echelon.' Accordingly, based upon a direct examination of Oswald's unit diaries,

as well as his own-military records, it does not appear that he had spent any time in

Taiwan. This finding is contrary to that of the Warren Commission that Oswald arrived

with his unit in Taiwan on September 30, 1958, and remained there somewhat less than

a week, but the Commission's analysis apparently was made without access to the unit

diaries of MAG11." ^{69 58-25}

Blakey, now a law professor at Notre Dame, resolved the problem as only a lawyer could--

by combining misleading information with outright lies in order to create the illusion that

Oswald was not in Taiwan!! In the final analysis, there are only two explanations for Blakey's

conduct: either Blakey was incompetent and never read the Diaries or the interview of Lieu-

tenant Rhodes, or he knew about the conflicting records and intentionally sought to avoid the

"Taiwan problem."

After returning to the United States, Harvey Oswald was sent to the Marine base

at Santa Ana, California (MACS 9), while Lee Oswald remained in Japan. While in Cal-

fornia Harvey began preparing for his upcoming "defection" by discussing and support-

ing Cuba, Russia, and communism. He subscribed to Russian language newspapers, lis-

tened to Russian records, spoke in the Russian language, and took a military language

exam in Russian. Harvey had less than a year in which to convince fellow Marines that

his devotion to communism was the reason for his "defection."

[Steven Gaal]

Gaal - does it bug you that no one ever responds to the Empire trust McNaughton DeMohrenschildt Neil Mallon George Bouhe connections? Bugs me. Hard to know what exactly to make of it, but to me it leads straight to 'George Bush of the CIA', which I believe was JEH code for 'I'm on to you guys, so leave me alone'. Also Gaal, does this connect to another of your ideas that no one responds to, the Great Southwest Corporation and Jack Crichton, another Bush connection. // BRANCATO

--------------------------------------------------------------------

MOST OF WHAT YOU MENTIONED has been covered before. by : PD SCOTT/RUSS BAKER/ BRUCE ADAMSON/SIMKIN (Crichton,MacNaughton) . THE GSW et all listed below were almost all POST ASSASSINATION (except Lumpkin). THAT THE COOPERATIVE TRANSPORT tidbit that connects to said list below is PRE ASSASSINATION and should cause a light bulb to go off over you head . WHEN YOU ADD THAT DULLES IS FRIENDS WITH A NUMBER OF THESE PEOPLE (or their fathers) and is also just one degree of separation from RUTH Paine, THEN YOU CAN SAY WHERE DALLAS BEGAN. GAAL

SIDEBAR >>>>>> INCORPORATION CAN GIVE YOU A CLUE TO DEEPER CONNECTIONS.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Information in sidebar below from Steven GAAL/ William Weston/ Bruce Adamson and Family of Secrets by Russ Baker
http://halbower.blogspot.com/2009/02/family-of-secrets-by-russ-baker.html
============================================
Dallas Republic National Bank

=======================

• BRUCE ADAMSON reports a 1967 LA TIMES article stating the Dallas Republic National Bank was a CIA trust building.

SAID BUILDING HOUSED

• De Mohrenschildt's offices ***

-
Dulles Does Dallas
An FBI report mentions a communication between De Mohrenschildt, Republic National Bank of Dallas and Brown Brothers Harriman during June 1963. This is after De Mohrenschildt is in Haiti. The report says Brown Brothers Harriman had done a credit check on De Mohrenschildt and forwarded its findings to Republic National Bank. This gives Brown Brothers Harriman (and George H W Bush) cover due to their connections to De Mohrenschildt.
The man driving the pilot car for the motorcade was George Lumpkin. Lumpkin was a friend of Jack Crichton (Empire Trust Member) , Bush’s GOP colleague. Lumpkin admitted to the House Select Committee on Assassinations he had consulted with the Secret Service about motorcade security which led to the elimination of an alternative parade route.

• Pat Holloway ***

In November 1963, Crichton and George H W Bush were both running for office: governor and senator respectively. Both used the same lawyer, Pat Holloway. Holloway worked out of the Republic National Bank Building. Both Bush and Crichton were recruited by Peter O’Donnell. Thus, Bush and Crichton were working in tandem.

• Neil Mallon's Dressor Industries *** (Mallon had lunch with Dulles at Dallas Council On World Affairs and later that day hosted private dinner for Dulles at his house.)
• Zydeco *** a subsidiary of Dresser Industries were GHWB had worked.
• Lewis W. MacNaughton. *** A director of the Republic National Bank and Empire Trust Member & (GREAT SOUTH WEST BOARD)

De Mohrenschildt’s company (CVOVT) was underwritten by Empire Trust. Empire was the client of James Baker’s law firm—which oversaw its operations in Texas. Lewis MacNaughton was a director of Empire Trust and was a board member of Dresser Industries (Mallon’s company). MacNaughton was also a member of the Council of World Affairs. He was also the employer of George Bouhe—the Russian émigré who introduced De Mohrenschildt to Lee Harvey Oswald. Bouhe drove around Marina and children. MacNaughton also had employed Declan Ford who housed Marina post assassination.

• Office which incorperated Cooperative Transport ***

A man who worked for Cooperative Transpost >>>> FIRST ) ate his lunch in back of the TSBD and didnt try to see the POTUS just a few yards away.
and >>>> SECOND ) Reported that there was no unusual activity behind the GK fence.
}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

DOLLY SHOE incorporated by lawfirm of Uncle of Marguerite Oswald.

============================================================

Marguerites uncle's law partner was a United Fruit lawyer and she got a receptionist job at Standard Fruit pre WW II . Standard Fruit and United Fruit were at loggerheads till 1942. They were still post WWII at loggerheads but to a lesser degree.She may have been a United Fruit spy on Standard Fruit. United Fruit worked with ONI circa WWI ,WWII and possible beyond . The ONI --- United Fruit connection may have been continuous from WWI onward. It could be Marguerite was a ONI asset (told possibly she was working for the State Dept.) (Per Linda Minor ,Marguerite did date a number of Navy men). gaal (PS receptionist "CAN BE" good place for a spy)

}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

Tujague (board member Friends Of Democratic Cuba and former employer LHO) is connected to Clem Shert (Oswald family attorney) and Ernest Carrere former Navy intelligence officer. David Ferrie's first CAP base part of a NAVY airport and post assassination Ferrie connected to transport NAVY personnel.

Posted 20 April 2013 - 11:23 PM

Confirming PD SCOTT
=========================
PD Scott in Dallas Conspiracy quoted Stephen Birmingham that Empire Trust maintained ,"something like a private CIA around the world to protect their investments.."(Our Crowd,Harper and Row ,1967,p.378). However there was no documentation in said book. John Crichton Army Reserve intelligence officer was part of Empire Trust. Crichton's claim to fame was hiring Ilya Mamantov to mistranslate Marina in an incriminating fashion her husband. I did find a second intelligence officer connected to Empire Trust.
At the National American Bank in New Orleans was director Leon Tujague (who gave LHO first job and LHO also had problematic Social Security number at age 15/half),director Clem A. Shert (Oswald family attorney) and later President of said bank, director Seymour Weiss a Lansky associate and director Ernest Carrere former Navy intelligence officer.* Carrere was director of Louisiana Land and Exploration Co. which was owned by Empire Trust. Carrere was also John Mecoms Jr. attorney. John Mecom SR & JR (mob) were friends with DeMohrenschildt.
John Mecom Sr was part of the CIA connected San Jacinto Foundation which was one of the first groups to ask JFK to come to Dallas. That Carrere was Naval intelligence and connected to Empire Trust bolsters Birmingham's claim that Empire Trust had its own private CIA. Empire Trust whose leading shareholders were the inter-related familes of Kuhn,Loeb,Lehman and Bronfman. The Kuhn, Loeb-Morgan alliance, maintain close relationships with the House of Rothschild, said Rothschild' owned the First National Bank Of Houston,which gave in 1971 the chairmanship of the First National Bank of Houston to one GHWB.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Carrere was president of a retired ONI officers association (worked for Empire Trust connected company)

Crichton and Lewis McNaughton (employer Bouhe and Declan Ford) were both EMPIRE TRUST (ALSO BOTH ON GREAT SOUTH WEST BOARD)
==================================================================================================================

see http://spartacus-educational.com/MDcrichton.htm

Edited July 2, 2015 by Steven Gaal

[Jim Hargrove]

DOLLY SHOE incorporated by lawfirm of Uncle of Marguerite Oswald.

============================================================

Marguerites uncle's law partner was a United Fruit lawyer and she got a receptionist job at Standard Fruit pre WW II . Standard Fruit and United Fruit were at loggerheads till 1942. They were still post WWII at loggerheads but to a lesser degree.She may have been a United Fruit spy on Standard Fruit. United Fruit worked with ONI circa WWI ,WWII and possible beyond . The ONI --- United Fruit connection may have been continuous from WWI onward. It could be Marguerite was a ONI asset (told possibly she was working for the State Dept.) (Per Linda Minor ,Marguerite did date a number of Navy men). gaal (PS receptionist "CAN BE" good place for a spy)

This is news to me. Can you provide a source for this? Where was the Standard Fruit office Marguerite worked at located? Would love to see anything more you have on this.

Some of the banking and other stuff you've mentioned is interesting, but falls well short of proof of much, at least in my opinion. Thanks!

[Jim Hargrove]

Well, Jim, I like most of that particular passage by John Armstrong there.

I personally find it impossible to believe that any trained and experienced FBI Agent in Dallas would have so little information about the JFK plot that hatched there.

I say this because FBI Agent James Hosty was a regular Bridge partner with Robert Allen Surrey -- sometimes right there in Walker's own Dallas home (which was also the address for Surrey's professional office).

Also, in his 1996 book, Assignment Oswald, James Hosty admitted that his principal assignment for the FBI in Dallas was to monitor the extreme right-wing in Dallas.

I take him at his word.

As you may know, Jim, I believe the extreme right-wing in Dallas murdered JFK. Now, if a trained FBI Agent was given the duty to monitor the Dallas extreme right, that FBI Agent would certainly know about any JFK plot within the Dallas extreme right. I'm saying that if the Dallas extreme right really killed JFK, then Hosty had to know it, and many of the players and many of the details.

If correct, then maybe James Hosty was the FBI Agent who drafted the 4" thick version of the Warren Report that LBJ alone received (cf. Jacques Zwart, 1972).

One can sympathize with Sylvia Meagher's complaint that Hoover was an "accessory after the fact," but ultimately she goes too far, and Hoover might have had good motives (e.g. National Security) for his "Lone Nut" lie.

Yet it seems that John Armstrong jumped to a conclusion from Wisconsin history professor David Wrone's claim that "within an hour" of Oswald's arrest (e.g. 3pm CST) Hoover had already announced his "Lone Nut" theory to officials. That's an overstatement. FBI memos show Hoover called RFK at 3pm CST with information contradicting the Dallas (and CIA) stories that an FPCC Communist had just killed JFK. Hoover told RFK that Oswald "was not a member of the Communist Party," and that Oswald "was not a leader in the FPCC."

This proves that the FBI had a fat file on Lee Harvey Oswald, updated in 1963 for his time in New Orleans with Guy Banister's Fake FPCC.

IMHO, DPD Lt. Jack Revill's report that FBI Agent James Hosty blamed a Communist for murdering JFK is valid evidence that Hosty was close to the JFK Kill-Team. It isn't impossible that James Hosty might have become enthralled by Ex-General Edwin Walker and his John Birch Society speeches. Maybe James Hosty came to agree with the JBS doctrine that JFK was a real-live Communist. If so, then JFK had to go.

Now for your question, Jim, about whether Hoover had foreknowledge of an "Oswald Project" as you called it, or whether Hoover had prior knowledge of the JFK murder.

I think it's a great question.

It's just that the FBI is so well-trained -- and so well-equipped -- and the Cold War was so distressing to so many Americans, practically pushing the public into the arms of the John Birch Society.

An extreme right-wing plot in a town like Dallas in 1963 would necessarily try to engage its local FBI Agent.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

<edit typos>

Paul,

If hard right Dallas forces were the main instigators of the hit (without substantial USG involvement) how could the perpetrators be sure Federal investigators would be put to sleep for fifty years? I'm sure you'd agree that a genuine national investigation would be relentless and that the plotters would be caught sooner rather than later.

[Steven Gaal]

This is news to me. Can you provide a source for this? Where was the Standard Fruit office Marguerite worked at located? Would love to see anything more you have on this.

Some of the banking and other stuff you've mentioned is interesting, but falls well short of proof of much, at least in my opinion. Thanks! // HARGROVE

==============================

http://quixoticjoust.blogspot.com/2012/05/colossal-failure-to-research-ekdahl.html

=

Following the failure of an attempt at running her own home business, "Oswald's Notion Shop," selling sewing notions and some candy, in the front room of their home for less than a year, Marguerite took what may have been her first job since her marriage to Robert E. Lee Oswald in 1933. Prior to the birth of her first son, John Edward Pic, she had, since before her 17th birthday, a receptionist at the large New Orleans law firm which represented the Standard Fruit Company as one of its clients.

=========================

1924: Marguerite finds work as a receptionist at the New Orleans law firm of Defour,

Rosen, Wolff and Kammer.

============================================================

I didnt put in all the Banking info I have (POSTED OVER YEARS ON THIS SITE) because the post would be called "thorough" sorry no,no , incoherent.Yup incoherent posts that the charge. // GAAL

Edited July 3, 2015 by Steven Gaal

[Paul Trejo]

Paul,

If hard right Dallas forces were the main instigators of the hit (without substantial USG involvement) how could the perpetrators be sure Federal investigators would be put to sleep for fifty years? I'm sure you'd agree that a genuine national investigation would be relentless and that the plotters would be caught sooner rather than later.

Well, Jim, IMHO the extreme rightists in Dallas who conspired to kill JFK in Dallas took a calculated risk. Their first purpose was to inspire the USA to invade Cuba, and so complete the project of the Bay of Pigs with USA help.

To do this, they chose to create an FPCC Communist Patsy (Lee Harvey Oswald) who would be set-up to take the blame for the JFK murder -- not as a "Lone Nut" -- but as an FPCC Communist.

If this failed (which it did) they would all run and hide (which they did) and kill anybody who threatened to talk (which they did). [iMHO, J.D. Tippit was the first one who threatened to talk, and Roscoe White killed him.]

The JFK Kill-Team did not expect the "Lone Nut" theory of J. Edgar Hoover! It took them by surprise!

They continually complained about it. Ex-General Edwin Walker complained about it even to the Warren Commission attorneys when he took the stand as a witness!

So -- the JFK Kill Team didn't plan that the Fed would hide their secret for 50 years -- that was accidental! Some thought it was lucky for them.

Was it lucky for them? Not in the opinion of the plot leaders -- because their main plot failed. Killing JFK wasn't the main purpose of their plot -- but blaming the COMMUNISTS was alone the main purpose of the plot.

So, even though they succeeded in killing JFK, they failed in their main plot, which was to inspire the USA to invade Cuba, overthrow Castro, and finally kill "The Beard" which they had tried so many times to do -- and failed miserably.

Perhaps Edwin Walker thought about this -- and yet I don't believe that Edwin Walker was afraid of being caught. I don't think he was afraid of anything -- he was a "resigned" US General with a huge ego.

In fact, if Edwin Walker had been correctly identified as the JFK plot leader, then IMHO he would have proudly stepped up to the ABC, CBS and NBC microphones to tell his side of the story -- and would have hoped that the majority of Americans would believe him and finally invade Cuba based on his impassioned plea.

But as it turned out, Edwin Walker had also made a sacred covenant with the other plotters, to keep absolute secrecy as long as possible.

Also, Walker's career in mainstream politics was over -- and so he had nothing important to live for, anyway. He spent his childhood and adult life in military school, West Point and the US Army. Walker quit the US Army in 1961 (and gave up his 30-year pension) and proceeded to run for Texas Governor. When JFK and RFK sent Walker to an insane asylum on 1 October 1962, that was the end of Walker's political dreams.

So, IMHO, Walker wanted to bring his case before the American people. That's why he would leave clues around -- including the clue of calling a right-wing newspaper in Germany (Der Deutsche Nationalzeitung) to boast about Lee Harvey Oswald also being his own shooter back in April.

It was just dumb luck for the JFK Kill-Team that J. Edgar Hoover outsmarted Ex-General Edwin Walker. There would be no public punishment for the guilty -- because that would have started riots in the streets as American leftists would attack American rightists with force -- and the rightists were heavily armed (e.g. the size of the paramilitary Minuteman movement was not precisely known by the FBI in 1963).

Instead, the JFK Kill-Team was punished secretly. Edwin Walker, for example, who won $3 million in lawsuits against newspapers that told the truth about Ole Miss riots, was deprived by Earl Warren himself of ever receiving a penny of that money.

Eventually, Edwin Walker had to return to the US Army in 1973 to beg for his pension. He finally got it in 1982, after he moved back to his hometown near Kerrville, TX.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited July 4, 2015 by Paul Trejo

[Paul Trejo]

deleted

Edited July 3, 2015 by Paul Trejo

[David Josephs]

Paul, what does that have to do with Harvey and Lee, the topic of this thread?

You repeatedly push the Walker angle... start a thread and have at it as that too remains unproven and "IN YOUR OPINION" about 99% of the time...

If you are never going to actually corroborate or authenticate the sources for your opinions and conclusions they simply cannot be taken seriously...

You repeatedly call up Wrone and Hoover's 3pm CST "Lone Nut" junk that you didn't prove, that Wrone didn't prove and for which I showed you a number of more realistic options

In the real world Paul, we know why Oswald was steered to the FPCC and it had nothing to do with JFK's assassination until AFTER THE FACT.

There were more FBI agents in the FPCC than actual FPCC members. Finally, to me the image below remains one of the more amazing potential relationships to pop up since Prayerman

This look an awful lot like Shelley at the NOLA ITM when Oswald is handing out leaflets in August...

If that's Shelley months before he is supposed to even know Oswald - all the while Lee is in Dallas with Ruby - the plot thickens considerably...

Mr. BALL - How long have you worked at Texas School Book Depository?
Mr. SHELLEY - She already has it, October 29, 1945.
Mr. BALL - October 29, 1945---steady since that date?
Mr. SHELLEY - Oh, yes.
Mr. BALL - In November 1963, what was your job down there?
Mr. SHELLEY - Well, I am manager of the miscellaneous department and have been for several years.
Mr. BALL - Who is your immediate superior?
Mr. SHELLEY - Roy S. Truly.
Mr. BALL - What is his job?
Mr. SHELLEY - He is superintendent of the place.
Mr. BALL - Did you know Lee Oswald?
Mr. SHELLEY - He worked for me.

Edited July 3, 2015 by David Josephs

[Jon G. Tidd]

Paul Trejo,

You write:

"In my opinion, this agreement is crucial. Whatever other data is accepted or rejected, it is crucial that we find agreement on this point -- that the JFK Kill Team wanted first and foremost for the USA to invade Cuba and kill Fidel Castro."

Paul, you posit the reason JFK was killed. I believe JFK was killed for some other reason; some reason with larger historical consequences, which endures until today. I admit that I may be wrong. One undeniable fact, however, is that a cover-up began very shortly after the assassination; and the cover-up is ongoing. I can't believe the ongoing cover-up has to do with Cuba.

Castro and Cuba were a big distraction in 1963, I agree. Edwin Walker and his friends may have wished dearly for the U.S. to invade Cuba. I agree with you that right-wingers of Walker's persuasion were a significant group in the U.S. in the early 1960s.

Something special happened on the assassination weekend, including Friday the 22nd. Yes, Dallas itself was blamed for the murder, because it was a hot bed of right-wing radicals opposed to JFK. This made a good TV story. What's special, though, is how the U.S.government under the leadership of LBJ hewed to one message. And what's more special is that that message continues to today, July 3, 2015.

You believe the core message was broadcast to prevent civil war. I can't say with certainty you're wrong. I just think LBJ read the cards correctly from his standpoint. And that the cards said, take the deal offered: LHO did it. And LBJ took the deal.

[W. Tracy Parnell]

David,

You are not trying to say that Oswald worked for Shelly handing out FPCC leaflets are you?

[Jim Hargrove]

Of course not. There had to be a spook looking after Oswald at the Book Depository, though, and if that was Shelly joining all the other spooks at the little spectacle in New Orleans, Shelly could have been the man inside the TSBD.

[Jim Hargrove]

The Washington Daily News, Wednesday, October 2, 1963, p.3

'SPOOKS' MAKE LIFE MISERABLE FOR AMBASSADOR LODGE

'Arrogant' CIA Disobeys Orders in Viet Nam

By Richard T. Starnes

SAIGON, Oct.2 - The story of the Central Intelligence Agency's role in South Viet Nam is a dismal chronicle of bureaucratic arrogance, obstinate disregard of orders, and unrestrained thirst for power.

Twice the CIA flatly refused to carry out instructions from Ambassador Henry Cabot Lodge, according to a high United States source here.

In one of these instances the CIA frustrated a plan of action Mr. Lodge brought with him from Washington because the agency disagreed with it.

This led to a dramatic confrontation between Mr. Lodge and John Richardson, chief of the huge CIA apparatus here. Mr. Lodge failed to move Mr. Richardson, and the dispute was bucked back to Washington. Secretary of State Dean Rusk and CIA Chief John A. McCone were unable to resolve the conflict, and the matter is now reported to be awaiting settlement by President Kennedy.

It is one of the developments expected to be covered in Defense Secretary Robert McNamara's report to Mr. Kennedy.

Others Critical, Too

Other American agencies here are incredibly bitter about the CIA.

"If the United States ever experiences a 'Seven Days in May' it will come from the CIA, and not from the Pentagon," one U.S. official commented caustically.

("Seven Days in May" is a fictional account of an attempted military coup to take over the U.S. Government.)

CIA "spooks" (a universal term for secret agents here) have penetrated every branch of the American community in Saigon, until non-spook Americans here almost seem to be suffering a CIA psychosis.

An American field officer with a distinguished combat career speaks angrily about "that man at headquarters in Saigon wearing a colonel's uniform." He means the man is a CIA agent, and he can't understand what he is doing at U.S. military headquarters here, unless it is spying on other Americans.

Another American officer, talking about the CIA, acidly commented: "You'd think they'd have learned something from Cuba but apparently they didn't."

Few Know CIA Strength

Few people other than Mr. Richardson and his close aides know the actual CIA strength here, but a widely used figure is 600. Many are clandestine agents known only to a few of their fellow spooks.

Even Mr. Richardson is a man about whom it is difficult to learn much in Saigon. He is said to be a former OSS officer, and to have served with distinction in the CIA in the Philippines.

A surprising number of the spooks are known to be involved in their ghostly trade and some make no secret of it.

"There are a number of spooks in the U.S. Information Service, in the U.S. Operations mission, in every aspect of American official and commercial life here, " one official - presumably a non-spook - said.

"They represent a tremendous power and total unaccountability to anyone," he added.

Coupled with the ubiquitous secret police of Ngo Dinh Nhu, a surfeit of spooks has given Saigon an oppressive police state atmosphere.

The Nhu-Richardson relationship is a subject of lively speculation. The CIA continues to pay the special forces which conducted brutal raids on Buddhist temples last Aug. 21, altho in fairness it should be pointed out that the CIA is paying these goons for the war against communist guerillas, not Buddhist bonzes (priests).

Hand Over Millions

Nevertheless, on the first of every month, the CIA dutifully hands over a quarter million American dollars to pay these special forces.

Whatever else it buys, it doesn't buy any solid information on what the special forces are up to. The Aug. 21 raids caught top U.S. officials here and in Washington flat-footed.

Nhu ordered the special forces to crush the Buddhist priests, but the CIA wasn't let in on the secret. (Some CIA button men now say they warned their superiors what was coming up, but in any event the warning of harsh repression was never passed to top officials here or in Washington.)

Consequently, Washington reacted unsurely to the crisis. Top officials here and at home were outraged at the news the CIA was paying the temple raiders, but the CIA continued the payments.

It may not be a direct subsidy for a religious war against the country's Buddhist majority, but it comes close to that.

And for every State Department aide here who will tell you, "Dammit, the CIA is supposed to gather information, not make policy, but policy-making is what they're doing here," there are military officers who scream over the way the spooks dabble in military operations.

A Typical Example

For example, highly trained trail watchers are an important part of the effort to end Viet Cong infiltration from across the Laos and Cambodia borders. But if the trailer watchers spot incoming Viet Congs, they report it to the CIA in Saigon, and in the fullness of time, the spooks may tell the military.

One very high American official here, a man who has spent much of his life in the service of democracy, likened the CIA's growth to a malignancy, and added he was not sure even the White House could control it any longer.

Unquestionably Mr. McNamara and Gen. Maxwell Taylor both got an earful from people who are beginning to fear the CIA is becoming a Third Force co-equal with President Diem's regime and the U.S. Government - and answerable to neither.

There is naturally the highest interest here as to whether Mr. McNamara will persuade Mr. Kennedy something ought to be done about it.

[Jim Hargrove]

The Washington Daily News, 2 October 1963, p.32

Editorial: What’s Wrong in South Viet Nam?

It is a brutally messed up state of affairs that our man, Richard Starnes, reports from South Viet Nam in his article on Page 3 today.

And the mess he has found isn’t Viet Namese. It is American, involving bitter strife among U.S. agencies – which may help explain the vast cost and lack of satisfactory progress in this operation to contain communist aggression.

The whole situation, as described by Mr. Starnes, must be shocking to Americans who believe we are engaged in a selfless crusade to protect democracy in this far-off land.

He has been told that:

• The U.S. Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) has flatly refused to carry out instructions from Ambassador Henry Cabot Lodge, frustrating a plan of action he took from Washington.

• Secret agents, or “spooks,” from CIA “have penetrated every branch of the American community in Saigon.” Who are we fighting there anyhow? The communists, or our own people?

• The CIA agents represent a tremendous power and are totally unaccountable to anyone. They dabble and interfere in military operations, to the frustration of our military officials.

The bitterness of other American agencies in Saigon toward the CIA, Starnes found, is “almost unbelievable.”

On the basis of this last statement alone, there is something terribly wrong with our system out there.

Defense Secretary McNamara, just back from an inspection trip to Viet Nam, gave the President a preliminary report on his findings at the White House this morning. Mr. McNamara is a tough man of decisive action. It may be assumed he now is in a position to assess the blame for this quarreling and back-biting inside the American family – whether it falls on the CIA or other agencies which accuse the CIA.

One way or the other, some official heads should roll.

[Jim Hargrove]

Paul Trejo,

You write:

"In my opinion, this agreement is crucial. Whatever other data is accepted or rejected, it is crucial that we find agreement on this point -- that the JFK Kill Team wanted first and foremost for the USA to invade Cuba and kill Fidel Castro."

Paul, you posit the reason JFK was killed. I believe JFK was killed for some other reason; some reason with larger historical consequences, which endures until today. I admit that I may be wrong. One undeniable fact, however, is that a cover-up began very shortly after the assassination; and the cover-up is ongoing. I can't believe the ongoing cover-up has to do with Cuba.

Castro and Cuba were a big distraction in 1963, I agree. Edwin Walker and his friends may have wished dearly for the U.S. to invade Cuba. I agree with you that right-wingers of Walker's persuasion were a significant group in the U.S. in the early 1960s.

Something special happened on the assassination weekend, including Friday the 22nd. Yes, Dallas itself was blamed for the murder, because it was a hot bed of right-wing radicals opposed to JFK. This made a good TV story. What's special, though, is how the U.S.government under the leadership of LBJ hewed to one message. And what's more special is that that message continues to today, July 3, 2015.

You believe the core message was broadcast to prevent civil war. I can't say with certainty you're wrong. I just think LBJ read the cards correctly from his standpoint. And that the cards said, take the deal offered: LHO did it. And LBJ took the deal.

Hi, Jon,

My opinion is that the immediate goal of the assassination was to provoke an invasion of Cuba, but I agree that this analysis does not explain more than a half century of USG cover-ups.

Current payments for assassination disinformationists comes, imho, from a U.S. Intel "sources and methods" protection budget (or racket, depending on your tolerance for bs). Agents of the USG are now, as they were back in the day, reluctant to let us regular folk know that "Intelligence" consists of whole worlds of invented realities, documents fabricated from whole cloth, and universes of bullxxxx.

For just one example, look at the bad press from the last 15 years or so explaining how the FBI lab invented evidence in support of the prosecution in literally thousands of criminal cases. Most bureaucrats will surely agree that a nation-wide consensus that the federal government is corrupt beyond repair is simply intolerable, and so we are blessed to have a small army of federally-paid disinfo agents active everywhere, especially online.

I totally agree, though, with what you wrote here: "I believe JFK was killed for some other reason; some reason with larger historical consequences, which endures until today." In it's largest context the message was quite clear:

YOUR SITUATION IS HOPELESS! OURS IS PERFECT ! ! DON'T TRY TO MESS WITH US ! ! !