JFK and the Ku Klux Klan

[Michael Hogan]

This thread is about JFK and the KKK, so let's just stick to that here. You can make all the comments you want about my other blogs, on the sites. This is not an appropriate place for them.

What about my recollections of what happened in Terry, Mississippi, in 1963, does not fit which facts?

John Simkin started this thread because Terri Williams originally posted her KKK story on a Jim Garrison thread. John decided to move it by starting a new thread.

This thread is about Terri Williams and her story. Anything that speaks to the lack of believability of that story is on topic and is certainly appropriate to post here.

There are a number of other Forum threads which discuss the Ku Klux Klan.

http://educationforu...?showtopic=3294

http://educationforu...?showtopic=4265

http://educationforu...?showtopic=6553

[John Dolva]

I'm pretty sure Roger Craig wrote/said that half the DPD were KKK. There are accounts that indicate the LPD were heavily KKK dominated. The perps of the M3 included cops. There is indication, convincing to many, that the MSC provided necessary intelligence to the perps. The coroners were complicit according to a private one appointed by one of the mothers (the one of the black guy, Can't remember his name now.) So it was pervasive. It was in this climate that JFK was assassinated.

However that does not detract me from thinking that there is an interest to discredit by association this avenue of research. I've been watching it unfold and not unexpectedly with some bemusement.

You are a difficult person to discuss things with as you well know from our exchanges. Still, I find the moments of seeking common ground hopeful.

A fairly large problem is that the guy's a sponge, John; any information he's gotten about Far Right persons, groups, issues, events, etc, etc gets thrown into his overall arguments, which are mostly superficial. You get the specious idea that once President Kennedy tried to shut down Cuban exile paramilitary attacks on Castro's Cuba, that now "the KKK" suddenly became aware that President Kennedy was a Communist traitor "just as the John Birch Society had been saying all along." Once this is mocked, now Mr. Trejo wonders if maybe it was President Kennedy's speech affirming the need for stronger civil rights legislation that made "the KKK" want to have him murdered. (Because Medgar Evers was killed right after that speech, and Evers had wanted the NAACP to "ease up on its pressure on the KKK" because Evers knew he was in the line of fire because that's what the later, dementedly conservative James Meredith recently wrote in a frickin book.) And now he's slowly becoming able to acknowledge that maybe Edwin Walker was more inclined towards racism per se because Mr. Trejo's analysis of certain "patterns of speech" used by Walker tends to indicate that sometimes bigots will use code words and euphemisms to say things that are in agreement with "the KKK" but don't want to be so blatant and controversial as the outright hate speech that characterizes "the KKK." (In other words, the same "patterns of speech" used by the upper-class, respectable White Citizens Councils members who looked down on the lower-class members of the Klan, and the same "patterns of speech" used by most conservatives ever since.)

I know I went through all that with him. Sometimes I get the impression I'm talkinmg to a kid. Still, I've learnt a lot and I think I'm discerning enough to be able to keep the baby and not throw it out with that bath water.

This "avenue of research" is not exactly a giant breakthrough, John,

Sure, Joesten and others have pointed this direction from the start.

when the researcher's tendency is to string things together building "sounds good" arguments ("Okay, let's see if this will fly") and to constantly and condescendingly "inform" stupid people like me about things like there being a bit of racism in the old days in our great country in this great land of ours. Might as well be the startling revelation that cattle will eat grass and drink water from a trough.

Yes, but I think that a lot of p[eople don't actually know about that, nor has any agencies attempted a serious investigation into it. JFK himself wanted the Oxford incident played down.

A tremendous amount of research and disclosures over the past 50 years indicates that the murder of President Kennedy and its cover-up involved some collusion of "interests" much higher up in the food chain than the Ku Klux Klan.

Absolutely. total agreement there.

.I think it would certainly (continue to) serve those interests to try to convince people that the Klan was (solely?) responsible,

Absolutely.

as well as make this whole messy business much more palatable to "respectable conservatives" so full of themselves and their copyright to what passes for Patriotism and Religion. If we can fob it off on the Klan we don't have to be bothered with things that make our heads hurt, like talk of a coup d'etat by high-level military, intelligence, and bureaucratic agencies and officials.

Yep.

edit add ..and thanks for all that, Dan.

edit 2 typos

add three

I'll just take an opportunity to expand on a facet.

Any revolution or coup d'etat needs one thing that is often overlooked. Guns make noises, events are reported etc but behind all that is the means of communication.

For that one needs to look at what was available then.

The valkyrie plot would have been successful if the plotters had had control over all communications for another few hours, Hitlers success was because of the control of communication. Likewise one can look back to the civil war at the split and reunion of the USPO and how personnell moved and many other aspects of the conduction of that war.

The USPO (JFK) was presided over a patronaged cabinet member (care of B.F.) (till getting the boot in mid '63 over a civil rights offense).

He testified that heads of USofA intelligence and finance approached him to ensure the continuation of the USPO PI illegal mail opening operation (since '53, possibly earlier) two weeks after assuming office (appointed by JFK).

Between him and the relevant USPO's there was the head of the USPO PI department and then the various PI's.

PI DAT7 H.D. Holmes is heavily implicated in many matters in the attempt to implicate Oswald alone and in the killing of Oswald as well. So there is one example of a direct line from the ground to the top.

What I'm suggesting is that much makes sense if one sees the assassination as a hierarchical structure where only the top needs to know everything. All below can be manipulated for whatever reason applies. It is in that light on a large scale view that the KKK for example should be seen which makes the KKK and its ilk a worthy pursuit in a part fo the overall search for an answer.

I won't accept any attempt to discredit that by association. I'm open to reason though.

Edited March 31, 2013 by John Dolva

[Paul Trejo]

<bump>

Edited April 3, 2013 by Paul Trejo

[Ken Davies]

Credibility is extremely important in evaluating a witness' testimony. I salute Mr. Farley and Mr. Hogan.

I could not believe the 911 terrorist material referred to. My own experience is that the police investigate alleged assaults on busses which travel our Canadian highways. Detailed reports are made. Criminal charges are often laid. There is no credible

evidence that the 911 terrorists trained in Canada.

The KKK did not have the resources to carry out the assassination and the ensuing 50years of cover up.

A shooter may have been a member of the KKK or of________(fill in the blank with group or organization of your choice). My belief is that that it was a coup d'etat.

[John Dolva]

"The KKK did not have the resources to carry out the assassination and the ensuing 50years of cover up.

A shooter may have been a member of the KKK or of________(fill in the blank with group or organization of your choice). My belief is that that it was a coup d'etat"

[Paul Trejo]

The KKK did not have the resources to carry out the assassination and the ensuing 50years of cover up.

A shooter may have been a member of the KKK or of________(fill in the blank with group or organization of your choice). My belief is that that it was a coup d'etat.

Ken, it seems clear to me that the KKK can be deeply involved in the JFK assassination without being the leader of the assassination.

For me, what is intriguing about Terri Williams' claim is not so much her confidence that Albert Lee Lewis was the final shooter of JFK -- but rather her claim that Guy Banister was in Terry, Mississippi in the summer of 1963, recruiting members of the KKK to participate in his own adventures.

This would have included Banister's adventures at Lake Pontchartrain, Louisiana. Everybody who was involved at Lake Pontchartrain is a suspect in the JFK killing, IMHO. This includes Gerry Patrick Hemming (who actually confessed his role in the JFK assassination as the guy who convinced Lee Harvey Oswald to bring his rifle to the TSBD building on 11/22/1963, to sell it on the black market).

This also includes, at one time or another, ex-General Edwin Walker, David Ferrie, Lee Harvey Oswald, Roscoe White, Loran Hall, Larry Howard and Eladio del Valle -- to name only a few. Now Terri Williams suggests the possibility that Albert Lee Lewis was also among Guy Banister's recruits at Lake Pontchartrain -- along with sundry other KKK members. Does anybody find that implausible?

It is profoundly plausible -- Cuban Exiles, paramilitary Minutemen and KKK sharpshooters -- all conspiring to launch a new assault on Castro's Cuba. Then, suddenly, in July 1963, in the wake of JFK's Civil Rights speech, the FBI descended upon Lake Pontchartrain and confiscated their weapons.

Terri Williams offered her eye-witness account -- the KKK citizens of Terry, Mississippi (only 3.5 hours from Lake Pontchartrain) were livid about JFK's latest "gun control." Nothing makes the extreme right-wing more raging angry than any hint of a violation of the Second Amendment.

This is what Terri reports -- this was more of a provocation than JFK sending thousands of troops to Oxford, Mississippi on 30 September 1962 to allow James Meredith to be the first Black American to attend Ole Miss university. The KKK, following Guy Banister, added their political motivation as raw energy to the leadership of Guy Banister (and quite obviously to ex-General Edwin Walker, too).

We will always have Jim Garrison to thank for bringing Guy Banister to the awareness of JFK research. Finding data on Guy Banister is not easy. Yet if we can identify other people in the orbit of Guy Banister -- for example, Lee Harvey Oswald (as Jim Garrison claimed) or ex-General Edwin Walker (as Jerry P. Shinley claimed, along with Ron Lewis) -- then I am interested.

Now, you might wish to call the JFK assassination a coup d'etat, but IMHO, a genuine coup d'etat implies a group that immediately takes credit for the assassination and forces its way into government with its agenda. IMHO, the group that killed JFK wanted to invade Cuba first, second and third. Although they succeeded in killing JFK, they failed in their ultimate objective -- to liberate Cuba from Communism. So, IMHO, their coup d'etat fizzled out.

Surely, rogue elements of the CIA who had been directly involved in the Bay of Pigs (like William K. Harvey, David Atlee Philips and James Jesus Angelton) could have recruited some of their street-crew (like Frank Sturgis and David Ferrie) and would have had been highly motivated to kill JFK for Cuba's sake. Yet without loyal, dependable ground-level soldiers, even they would have lacked the resources.

Where was the dependable street-crew to be found? Surely not among mercenaries (like the mafia) but only among true-believers in the cause. That is why the KKK remains a plausible option for JFK research. That is why Lake Pontchartrain is such a magnet for suspects. That is why Guy Banister is a major suspect here.

And that is why Guy Banister's interest in KKK sharpshooters in Terry, Mississippi is interesting to me.

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

<edit typos>

Edited April 3, 2013 by Paul Trejo

[John Dolva]

Ken, I quoted that part because I want to address it. I'm finding that today I have little time, unfortunately. I'd like to refer to my earlier statements about how to properly evaluate data in this thread. As well as the very early ref to the WK from '64, not '63 (I'd like to know more about the White Camelias and the Alabama Klans, particularly in the area where the Ms Highway Patrol got under counter guns from) and no Klavern mentions.

Paul, I'm very interested in anything more you can find on in any LSC files, some are stored in odd places. Also for reasons I've gone in to elsewhere I am very interested in any Florida Southern Intelligence network files, as well as Alabamas version. (plus Oklahoma. That's where ''Watts and Loonies'' were located). There should be mentions of Sergio Arcacha Smith in the LSC files, It's misspelled in the MSC files so a search with just initials, one or both, and smith reveals the option.

Further, the '65 gov comm investigation into the KKK etc is a wealth of info. (from that and other things I got interested in Ohio, New Jersey, Columbus. There's one in a library here so it must be readily available. Also, Dan has mentioned a couple of useful books in his posts.

[Terri Williams]

Credibility is extremely important in evaluating a witness' testimony. I salute Mr. Farley and Mr. Hogan.

I could not believe the 911 terrorist material referred to. My own experience is that the police investigate alleged assaults on busses which travel our Canadian highways. Detailed reports are made. Criminal charges are often laid. There is no credible

evidence that the 911 terrorists trained in Canada.

The KKK did not have the resources to carry out the assassination and the ensuing 50years of cover up.

A shooter may have been a member of the KKK or of________(fill in the blank with group or organization of your choice). My belief is that that it was a coup d'etat.

Well, the truth is that the RCMP did NOT arrest those men for trying to kill me and it was odd how it was carried out. But as I said, that is not a topic here on this thread. I am not the only one who knows about the terrorists being in Canada in 1999. There were others who were present. We ALL found the actions of the RCMP ODD. Everything about Canada's "security" is ODD.

For example. Ahmed Rassam was a well known terrorist. He lived in the Montreal area with another man Samir Ait Mohammed. They had planned to blow up a gasoline truck in Outremont. Rassam and Mohammed moved to the west coast when they were tipped off. CSIS was watching them. The French were warning Canada about the danger these men posed, but RCMP ignored them.

Then, Immigration Canada who had been tracking them for years, "lost sight of Rassam" as he tried to slip across the American border. It took a keen eyed American to stop him. I am not sure you know much about how RCMP operate in Canada or if you are aware of their image problems these days. RCMP did nothing to stop Mohammed, it took a keen eyed American to halt the explosion destined for Outremont. But it really is a different topic and worthy of a discussion on my blog if you like.

I agree with you though, that the killing of JFK was a coup d'etat. Although I have no proof, I feel strongly the FBI were involved in a major way, either in the planning, the spurring into action, the cover up or all of the above.

Edited April 2, 2013 by Terri Williams

[Ken Davies]

The coup d'etat did not fail. The executive branch of government was changed. Kennedy had enemies far more powerful and long lasting than the KKK.

Although off topic, Ms. Williams needs cites for her 911 terrorist claims. A former Canadian Defence Minister claims that UFO's are

real. He has no cites.

The KKK are not my area of interest. I like others, am amazed that this has gone on for so many pages.

My humble belief is that there are bigger fish to fry and the frying pan is getting cold.

C'est tout.

[Terri Williams]

The coup d'etat did not fail. The executive branch of government was changed. Kennedy had enemies far more powerful and long lasting than the KKK.

Although off topic, Ms. Williams needs cites for her 911 terrorist claims. A former Canadian Defence Minister claims that UFO's are

real. He has no cites.

The KKK are not my area of interest. I like others, am amazed that this has gone on for so many pages.

My humble belief is that there are bigger fish to fry and the frying pan is getting cold.

C'est tout.

Thanks for your input. The topic here is JFK & the KKK and the plausible connection between them, so forgive the rattling on. Much of what you would call 'cites' indicate a connection, one that is very relevant today with all the talk of gun control, since it is that kind of political atmosphere that brings '2nd amendment'ers out in droves. Most gun toters are right wing people. Most Klan are both right wing and gun toters. Their fears should be carefully monitored, today, what with all the shootings.

I don't think it was solely the KKK who orchestrated the assassination of JFK. And I don't think the people who planned and carried it out, ever went away. Some of them just died of old age.

As for the 911 terrorists having been in Canada in 1999 to learn to fly crop dusters, well I have already invited you to comment on the blog, for clarity's sake.

[John Dolva]

Is it so that you, Ken, are amazed that there is a lot of interest in the KKK as part of the assassination (as well as other militant right groups) because it is not your real interest?

Do you recommend that other people be likewise amazed? Disinterested?

What do you feel people need to be interested in instead?

[Terri Williams]

Is there anyone on this thread who would know how to track down the green Ford pick-up truck, that my grandmother claimed Banister bought for the town of Terry, and trace it to Banister?

In the movie JFK, there is mention of Bansiter having bought a fleet of Ford Pick-up trucks, wasn't there? Anyway, when I got back to Terry in the summer of 63, the town had a new green Ford pick-up truck that the town marshal used. My grandmother said, "A nice man named Banister arranged for the town to get it for free".

I was just wondering if anyone would know how to trace that truck. It was used by the town for at least a decade afterwards. I'll pose this question in the KKK thread as well.

Edited April 7, 2013 by Terri Williams

[Paul Trejo]

Is there anyone on this thread who would know how to track down the green Ford pick-up truck, that my grandmother claimed Banister bought for the town of Terry, and trace it to Banister?

In the movie JFK, there is mention of Bansiter having bought a fleet of Ford Pick-up trucks, wasn't there? Anyway, when I got back to Terry in the summer of 63, the town had a new green Ford pick-up truck that the town marshal used. My grandmother said, "A nice man named Banister arranged for the town to get if for free".

I was just wondering if anyone would know how to trace that truck. It was used by the town for at least a decade afterwards. I'll pose this question in the KKK thread as well.

This is a great question, Terri. To help researchers, please tell everybody here the names of the top three newspapers in Terry, Mississippi, and specifically in your home town. This would be the first place I'd start.

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

[Terri Williams]

The Clarion Ledger and Jackson Daily News are the two most widely read newspapers in Terry, but the town has a local paper, the Terry News. It is mostly just gossipy news, though. I guess if the truck was used by the town marshal, then it would qualify as public records, right? Just submit a freedom of information request, or whatever its called in the States?

[Guest Tom Scully]

Well Blair....even a stopped clock is accurate....twice a day!

John, you've admitted Terri to your forum and now she's placed her OT accusations in a prominent spot on the internet, and just beloe your name. It is easy to see how Terri benefits, if getting an opportunity to pitch what she has linked to here is actually in her best interests to do, but how do you or the forum membership benefit?

It is more interesting than the pile of junk that you, Tom Scully, put up. And who knows, it might be right. You seen to *assume* that if you have never heard of something then it just can't be true, for example Lyndon Johnson having sex with his elderly grandmother. Or God forbid, all the decades of unhinged sexual perversions of Bill Clinton which everyone knows about .... except you.

I don't think you, Tom Scully, are in a position to judge the credibility of others.

I would rather read that Terri posts than you. Her stuff is more entertaining, possibly perhaps even true. Your stuff, Tom Scully, is for the most part gibberish that I can do without.

Sincerely,

Robert Morrow