JFK and the Ku Klux Klan

[John Dolva]

I note that my initial comments re Klaverns were not answered nor that the White Knights were formed in 1964 and that Tom Purvis has pointed at the White Cammellias in '63. Since then I've found it important to be very fastidious in picking what's simply a confirmation of other accounts and leaving the rest. The most important thing is to not loose sight of the KKK, Minutemen, the armed wings of the WCC's and the JBS. In this topic much has been learnt and many avenues of research arisen. To let the obvious discredit overshadow that only serves the interest of a number of persons implcated in this conspiracy.

[Paul Trejo]

...If the KKK was the driving force behind the JFK assassination, they had to have been even unhappier than the anti-Castro Cubans over the results.

The Civil Rights laws and Voring Rights laws that were passed after JFK's death were certainly not something supported by the KKK.

...And the KKK became a laughingstock in subsequent years, with virtually no political influence.

I think the coverup proves that there were a lot more powerful forces behind the assassination of JFK.

Don, I think this is a completely correct approach to the data that is evolving in threads like these. For one thing, it affirms the theory that those who killed JFK were different (and even opposed) to those who covered-up the JFK murder plot. This new slant in JFK research is just what is needed at the half-century mark, given the obvious disarray of JFK research.

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

[Paul Trejo]

...The question for me is whether or not the KKK were the a driving force behind / significant contributor to, the JFK assassination. Even if they were the driving force, that does not absolve the CIA, MIC, LJ or other usual suspects of involvement in the act or the coverup, That's why I think we need better reasons than Terri's credibility (which of course is important) before significant KKK involvement can be ruled out.

There are several reasons I find this thread interesting, one being that it brings another possibility to the table that I had not even considered before, another being that there are elements of Terri's 'testimony' that may be testable (even if doing so would be far beyond my own resources or ability).

Lindsay, it seems to me that Terri's credibility (about the JFK assassination) is often discounted because she tends to jump to conclusions to make her points.

Yet that is something that researchers must always evaluate with every eye-witness or ear-witness. One must use discernment to distinguish between empirical evidence, conjecture and hyperbole. The common person will always combine these three, especially when excited (as in the wake of a crime).

I don't object to taking a grain of salt when hearing witnesses -- but I myself also add discernment and some linguistic nuance when hearing a witness.

Take for example Harry Dean's testimony that he was in a meeting with ex-General Edwin Walker (who was deeply connected with the White Citizens Councils in the South, and with Medford Evans who was a friend of Guy Banister) along with Loran Hall, Larry Howard, Guy Gabaldon, David Robbins and John Rousselot in the late fall of 1963, in which Lee Harvey Oswald was named as the patsy in their plot. I can take that as empirical evidence, even though I don't have to take Harry's personal opinions about the LDS involvement in the plot. I can take that as conjecture based on the number of Mormons that Harry met while in the Minutemen in California, and how anti-JFK they were, and how strongly they tried to convert him, and a number of factors. I don't have to accept every conjecture that Harry made, although I highly value his eye-witness account, and I believe it will eventually become widely accepted as part of the solution to the JFK assassination plot.

As for Terri's eye-witness account -- we should be willing to hunt for Guy Banister in Terry, Mississippi in 1963. That is worthwhile. Terri's conjecture that the best KKK marksman in her county was the *final* JFK shooter, can be seen as her opinion, based on other factors she personally witnessed, for example, the KKK celebration over the death of JFK in her town, along with schoolmates congratulating the son of that KKK marksman.

It takes a bit of discernment -- but not so much that it's overwhelming. Keeping an open mind and mining nuggets of gold in a running river -- this takes patience and skill.

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

<edit typos>

Edited March 29, 2013 by Paul Trejo

[Paul Trejo]

...Paul's reply did not even offer a comment on these stories which indicate a clear pattern of fabrication.

http://dcsnipersinca...dc-snipers.html

http://911terrorists...99.blogspot.ca/

http://thetruezodiac...-come-true.html

I can see why Paul would want to avoid them. He has too much invested in the Terry, Mississippi story.

Michael, you're mistaken about how much I have invested in any story.

I find the eye-witness account of Terri Williams about the JFK assassination (and I'm only interested the JFK assassination here) to be worthy of serious review because there are elements of her story that are profoundly believable.

It is plausible that the KKK dominated Terri Willams' home town in Terry, Mississippi.

It is plausible that the KKK in Terri's home town had a celebration when JFK was killed.

It is plausible that the son of the well-known KKK marskman in that town was congratulated by many people in that town for killing JFK.

It is plausible that Guy Banister visited Terri Williams' home town (and this is something can be tested).

It is plausible that Guy Banister sought out this well-known KKK marksman to take part in clandestine activities involving Lake Pontchartrain in Louisiana.

All these nuances of Terri's story are plausible on an objective basis. I'm not introducing any subjectivity in this analysis.

As for the idea that the KKK (which has been responsible for countless atrocities in the USA from the late 19th through the late 20th century) might have had an interest in the JFK assassination -- anybody who doubts that should be regarded as ostrich-like, IMHO.

The plausibility of KKK involvement in the JFK assassination is logical and fairly obvious, IMHO.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

<edit typos>

Edited March 29, 2013 by Paul Trejo

[Paul Trejo]

I note that my initial comments re Klaverns were not answered nor that the White Knights were formed in 1964 and that Tom Purvis has pointed at the White Cammellias in '63. Since then I've found it important to be very fastidious in picking what's simply a confirmation of other accounts and leaving the rest. The most important thing is to not loose sight of the KKK, Minutemen, the armed wings of the WCC's and the JBS. In this topic much has been learnt and many avenues of research arisen. To let the obvious discredit overshadow that only serves the interest of a number of persons implcated in this conspiracy.

John, I want to revisit your initial comments about the KKK Klaverns and the White Camelias in 1963. I am in full agreement with your long-time emphasis on the KKK, Minutemen, armed wings of the White Citizens' Council, and the John BIrch Society (which preached to millions that every US President since FDR was effectively a card-carrying member of the Communist Party) as plausible participants, and plausible leaders, of a plot to kill JFK.

These right-wing extremists reached a fever pitch of activity during the JFK administration. Their collective ire peaked with JFK's Civil Rights speech, whereupon after the midnight hour of that same speech NAACP leader Medgar Evers was shot in the back and killed (probably for his role in supporting James Meredith in his successful registration at Ole Miss university only ten months prior).

I hope that everybody can keep an open mind about conjectures, hyperbole and inaccuracies that can enter in any dimension of JFK research, and make extra efforts to focus on the empirical facts.

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

<edit typos>

Edited March 29, 2013 by Paul Trejo

[Michael Hogan]

...Paul's reply did not even offer a comment on these stories which indicate a clear pattern of fabrication.

http://dcsnipersinca...dc-snipers.html

http://911terrorists...99.blogspot.ca/

http://thetruezodiac...-come-true.html

I can see why Paul would want to avoid them. He has too much invested in the Terry, Mississippi story.

Michael, you're mistaken about how much I have invested in any story.

No Paul. You're mistaken.

I quantified your investment by noting your refusal to comment on her other stories which are obviously the product of a fertile imagination. Those have a direct bearing on the credibility of her KKK story.

A story that you've championed and encouraged since the thread's inception.

As for the idea that the KKK (which has been responsible for countless atrocities in the USA from the late 19th through the late 20th century) might have had an interest in the JFK assassination -- anybody who doubts that should be regarded as ostrich-like, IMHO.

The plausibility of KKK involvement in the JFK assassination is logical and fairly obvious, IMHO.

What a pusillanimous statement. Can you show where I've ever indicated that the KKK had no interest in the JFK assassination?

You persist in introducing distractions in preference to commenting on these stories which have a direct relationship to Williams' credibility.

Basically, you're refraining from owning what you've written to her and about her as it pertains to her distinctly unique and unsupportable assertions.

[Ian Kingsbury]

POGUE

The magazine for the discerning Klansman

Fashion!

It's the Friday night BBQ Rope or Rifle ?

Should you wear dungarees after sunrise?.

Ettiquette

Moonshine with fish?

Do I take grits to a lynching?.

At some point those guilty of the cover up will get behind an alternative to their

Lies

But this is not the one!.

Lee did John Wayne Gacy eat all the cucumber sandwiches?.

Ian

[Thomas Graves]

POGUE

The magazine for the discerning Klansman

Fashion!

It's the Friday night BBQ! Rope or Rifle ?

Should you wear dungarees after sunrise?.

Ettiquette

Moonshine with fish?

Do I take grits to a lynching?.

At some point those guilty of the cover up will get behind an alternative to their

Lies

But this is not the one!.

Lee did John Wayne Gacy eat all the cucumber sandwiches?.

Ian

It's truly amazin' Gacey to be so, well, hmmm... Con-connected!

and yes, yes in-the-no-no

--Tommy

Edited March 30, 2013 by Thomas Graves

[Paul Trejo]

In his foreword to The Last Investigation Fonzi mentions that all groups that had benn assigned to look at various hypothesis came up with supporting evidence. Still, he foused on one, Blakey on another and others on others.

The one that has had least serious attention, in fact just about all lists exclude Civil Rights as an issue, and therefore necessarily the KKK and its ilk. Until recently.

The KKK was not added tp the mix in any way as all the other usuals were. Except in the first few moments. Then the sleights of hand started. It's only recently that a number have found reason to return to those earliest times and view the same data plus much else that has been gathering dust for decades with a new perspective and I think things are becoming clearer on many levels.

It's hard to accept that entities inside of 'normal' society were responsible. It's so much easier to accept a perspective that blames some relatively alien grouping...

Sometimes the conspiracy hypothesis is the conspirators best friend.

"when after all it was you and me" - Sympathy for the Devil - Beggars Banquet - Rolling Stones.

John, I agree that we make more progress when we return to the first few moments after the JFK assassination, before Lee Harvey Oswald was named as the 'lone nut' assassin by J. Edgar Hoover.

The plausibility of a KKK involvement (or leadership) in the JFK assassination increases when we examine the modus operandi. For example, a flyer that I recently found while searching remotely for Guy Banister in the Lousiana Department of Archives and History, dated during the JFK years, that begins as follows:

------------------ Begin Extract from Kennedy-era KKK flyer ------------------------

Louisiana's Ku Klux Klan hereby calls upon the white christian manhood of the South to follow our leadership, without fear of death or persecution, to save our white race from annihilation, slavery, mongrelism and Communism. Death stalks our land with "Black Congo" anarchy and revolution inspired, promoted and financed by the Kennedy dynasty and the Communist party.

...According to Article III, Section III of the Constitution of the United States, the President and his Kennedy dynasty are guilty of treason...While federal troops are used to invade Southern States and persecute, harass and intimidate southern governors and destroy the white race, Kennedy's new frontier federal dynasty promotes the black anarchist, Communist branded, Martin Luther King as well as "peaceful co-existence with the Godless conspiracy of Communism..."

...Kennedy's Federal Government...using all its power and resources to give the lowly, prideless, immoral, parasitical and worthless black race, "Supreme Civil Rights" --- causes us to believe that this is a betrayal of the white race, our Creator and our country...

------------------- End Extract from Kennedy-era KKK flyer --------------------------

The keyword that jumps out at me is the word "Treason", which must remind us of the "Wanted for Treason: JFK" handbills that circulated through Dallas on 11/22/1963.

According to Chris Cravens, that same handbill was also distributed in Dallas the previous month, on 10/23/1963, during the so-called US Day rally, which was a planning session to disrupt Adlai Stevenson's UN Day rally, held in the same auditorium on 10/24/1963, when that same handbill appeared yet again.

Ex-General Edwin Walker, a leader of the Dallas Minutemen, and a regular speaker at gatherings of the White Citizens' Councils and the State Sovereignty Commissions in the South, also led the US Day rally. As at Ole Miss in 1962, Walker was accompanied by Robert Allen Surrey, leader of the Dallas chapter of the American Nazi Party.

Although the KKK did not have a major presence above-ground in Dallas, their support of other white supremacy movements in the South is well-known.

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited March 30, 2013 by Paul Trejo

[John Dolva]

I'm pretty sure Roger Craig wrote/said that half the DPD were KKK. There are accounts that indicate the LPD were heavily KKK dominated. The perps of the M3 included cops. There is indication, convincing to many, that the MSC provided necessary intelligence to the perps. The coroners were complicit according to a private one appointed by one of the mothers (the one of the black guy, Can't remember his name now.) So it was pervasive. It was in this climate that JFK was assassinated.

However that does not detract me from thinking that there is an interest to discredit by association this avenue of research. I've been watching it unfold and not unexpectedly with some bemusement.

You are a difficult person to discuss things with as you well know from our exchanges. Still, I find the moments of seeking common ground hopeful.

[Terri Williams]

Lee Farley is an outstanding researcher. My first inclination was to respond in detail to Paul's latest post, but since it was directed to Lee, I'll leave that to him for now.

Does anyone else really believe this crap?

http://911terrorists...99.blogspot.ca/

Thanks to Lee for bringing this to light.

I do, since it happened to me. There are others who were there, who believe it as well. You were not there.

But that story has nothing to do with this thread, so I didn't want to confuse the issues.

I stand by my claim that the killing of JFK was planned in my hometown and carried out by one of its residents'.....as well as everything else I have blogged about.

[Terri Williams]

This topic has nothing to do with this thread, except that I witnessed it. The 911 terrorists were in Canada in 1999. They said they were here to learn to fly crop dusters. There is evidence that this might be true, that they planned to also use crop dusters, but it is not my place to investigate the crime, just to tell what I know to be true, since the truth does matter.

The DC Snipers must be true or else why is it still there? The FBI found the surveillance footage. They saw what I described. The VPD officer to whom I spoke, was possibly where I said he was. And it is possible that he blew me off. He is thought of as a bully by those who have had to work with him.

My uncle needs to seriously be investigated in the crimes I mention, but I doubt it will ever happen. Until it does, no one will know for sure who the Zodiac Killer was. I'll put my money on it, since I had to live with him in the summer of 1970, in San Bruno, California. No one will ever know the whole truth about the Zodiac Killer, not without knowing the truth about JFK.

This thread is about JFK and the KKK, so let's just stick to that here. You can make all the comments you want about my other blogs, on the sites. This is not an appropriate place for them.

What about my recollections of what happened in Terry, Mississippi, in 1963, does not fit which facts?

[Ken Pierce]

Daniel, I think "superficial" and "sounds good arguments" are apt descriptions of the support Paul offers for his theory.

[Paul Trejo]

I'm pretty sure Roger Craig wrote/said that half the DPD were KKK. There are accounts that indicate the LPD were heavily KKK dominated. The perps of the M3 included cops. There is indication, convincing to many, that the MSC provided necessary intelligence to the perps. The coroners were complicit according to a private one appointed by one of the mothers (the one of the black guy, Can't remember his name now.) So it was pervasive. It was in this climate that JFK was assassinated.

However that does not detract me from thinking that there is an interest to discredit by association this avenue of research. I've been watching it unfold and not unexpectedly with some bemusement.

You are a difficult person to discuss things with as you well know from our exchanges. Still, I find the moments of seeking common ground hopeful.

John, I don't know about Roger Craig's claim, but I know that William Turner's 1973 book, Power on the Right, claims that no candidate was accepted as a member of the Dallas Police Force in the early 1960's unless he had military training and was also a member one of the following: (i) KKK; (ii) Minutemen; or (iii) John Birch Society.

A person who was a member of all three organizations was preferred, said Turner.

Thus, Roscoe White, the actual shooter of JFK according to his son, Ricky White, was a perfect candidate for the Dallas Police Department. Roscoe White joined the DPD in October, 1963, and though in training, was already on the beat complete with firearms.

The possibility that KKK member Roscoe White was the shooter (or one of the shooters) of JFK on 11/22/1963 was also proposed by Ron Lewis in his self-published book, Flashback: The Unknown Story of Lee Harvey Oswald (1993). (BTW, Oliver Stone included Ron among his advisors for the movie, JFK.)

Ron Lewis, a dishonorably discharged Marine whose story I also find interesting (despite some hyperbole and conjecture by Ron), claims that he knew Lee Harvey Oswald personally in New Orleans in the summer of 1963, and that Oswald would open up to few people -- but he would open up to Ron because of the factors they had in common.

Among the things Ron claims that Oswald told him were: (i) that Guy Banister became furiious with Oswald when Oswald confessed to him that he shot at ex-General Edwin Walker; and (ii) that Oswald had to find some way into Cuba, even if it meant hi-jacking an airplane; and (iii) after Oswald's failed mission to get into Cuba through Mexico, Oswald told Ron that Roscoe White was selected to shoot JFK, and Oswald would provide support as needed.

I can accept vital aspects of Ron Lewis' claims -- even without accepting everything that he wrote.

IMHO, Jim Garrison adequately showed that Guy Banister was involved in the JFK assassination, and it is plausible that Roscoe White was involved with Guy Banister because of their common right-wing extremism.

It is plausible that Oswald tried to pose as an FPCC officer to trick his way into Cuba, and its plausible that failing that task (as ordered by Guy Banister) and that Oswald was demoted to support Roscoe White, as penance for trying to kill Walker.

It is most interesting to me that Guy Banister was an extreme right-wing fanatic. Like you, John, I've found evidence in the Mississippi State Soverignty Commission website that Guy Banister and Edwin Walker (along with Medford Evans) were intimately associated with the White Citizens' Councils throughout the South..

It is only one short step from the White Citizens' Councils to the KKK.

Because Terri Williams proposes to link Guy Banister with the KKK in her home town in 1963, I'm willing to take quite a bit of flack to validate the historical plausibility of her account.

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited March 31, 2013 by Paul Trejo

[Thomas Graves]

[...]

Because Terri Williams proposes to link Guy Banister with the KKK in her home town in 1963, I'm willing to take quite a bit of flack to validate the historical plausibility of her account.

Validate the historical plausibility of her account?

Absolutely amazing example of hubris and/or the wanton butchery of the English language.

--Tommy

Edited March 31, 2013 by Thomas Graves