Robert Prudhomme Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 (edited) Thomas, This is very impressive, especially when using Powerpoint rather than Photoshop and/or AfterEffects. Well done!!! Whoever this person, they clearly have a short sleeve shirt on. Gimp 2.8 suggests this figure cannot be Oswald, the shirt is far too tidy and appears closed from about the upper chest. An excellent piece of image adjustment. James. Hi James Yes, I was impressed by this work, too. In the same thread at ROKC, Stan Dane expanded on his work and did a little more on the PM photo, after another poster pointed out that the unusual "white blob", seen at PM's left elbow, could very well be the top of a heat radiator on the other side of the glass from PM, inside the TSBD lobby. "Looking at the image Colin posted got the wheels to turning in my head. If that white blob by Oswald's left elbow is the top of the heater behind the glass, I thought I might be able to do a rough calculation to determine where the level of the top step is in the PM picture. I modified Fratini's image and using PowerPoint drew lines and determined their length (draw a line in PP and the length/width are given in format properties). I described the methodology I used in the image to come up with what I came up with. It worked really well for (a) ( © and (d). If this is reasonably accurate, it's clear Oswald was probably not standing on the top step, something many believe anyway. (If the point where I have (f) touching the white blob is a little too high, then the level of the top step would be a little lower). Again, this is just a swag. Ah, the things you do when you can't sleep." Edited March 30, 2015 by Robert Prudhomme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Knight Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 More great use of modern technology to try to come to a solution; I love it! I think that ALL of the evidence, and alleged evidence, in the case should be examined in a like fashion. If we end up deciding that Oswald IS Prayer Man, then the case is wide open, and needs reinvestigation. If we end up deciding that PM is NOT Oswald, then we STILL should examine other evidence to see if anyone can, beyond a reasonable doubt, place him "in THAT window, with THAT rifle" at the time the shots were fired...because that is the basis of the WC case. My position is, if the WC case can be DISPROVED beyond a reasonable doubt, we still don't have a solution to the JFK murder. But that will free up time and resources to THEN pursue the true culprit(s), and ALL [except maybe David Von pein and McAdams, who I'm sure would refuse to participate] can join in the search for truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Graves Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 (edited) Thomas, This is very impressive, especially when using Powerpoint rather than Photoshop and/or AfterEffects. Well done!!! Whoever this person, they clearly have a short sleeve shirt on. Gimp 2.8 suggests this figure cannot be Oswald, the shirt is far too tidy and appears closed from about the upper chest. An excellent piece of image adjustment. James. James, I think you meant to congratulate Robert P., not me. I'm the fly in the ointment here. I'm the spanner in the works. I'm arguing that Prayer Man is wearing a long sleeved shirt with the sleeves rolled down. I believe that the sleeve covering his right forearm is in the sun, making it appear to be lighter-colored in comparison to the rest of his shirt which is in the shade. I believe his right sleeve is not rolled up, but it is a few inches short of his wrist. So, James, I disagree with your assessment that the person is "clearly" wearing a short sleeve shirt. If the person was wearing a short sleeved shirt, he had very hairy arms. And the hair stopped a few inches from his wrist. Respectfully, --Tommy edited to say "with the sleeves rolled" Edited March 31, 2015 by Thomas Graves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James R Gordon Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 The TSBD is approx. 100 feet wide. Actually it is just slightly above that. But I'll use that as a value. The width of the doorway - edge to edge - I calculate is 12 feet 1 inch wide. I suspect it is 12 feet wide. The height from the top step to ceiling I calculate as 10 foot 6 inches, If you can establish the halfway point, then that width is 6 foot. James Additions:- Assuming Line E is from the base of the top step, then it is likely to be 8 ft high. That suggests the individual is around 6ft tall + or - Using Line E as 8 ft. The height appears around 5ft 6 to 8 inches Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Knight Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 The TSBD is approx. 100 feet wide. Actually it is just slightly above that. But I'll use that as a value. The width of the doorway - edge to edge - I calculate is 12 feet 1 inch wide. I suspect it is 12 feet wide. The height from the top step to ceiling I calculate as 10 foot 6 inches, If you can establish the halfway point, then that width is 6 foot. James Additions:- Assuming Line E is from the base of the top step, then it is likely to be 8 ft high. That suggests the individual is around 6ft tall + or - Using Line E as 8 ft. The height appears around 5ft 6 to 8 inches ...which would fit a 5-foor-9 Oswald, if he was slumped even 1 inch, rather than standing at full attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James R Gordon Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Mark, It could also be that the estimated height might be slightly out and and that it could be 5 foot 7 to 9 inches. This was done quickly. I'll go back and be more careful and I should get a more accurate value. It is assumed that line E is actually right and is indeed on the floor of the top step. James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Knight Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 My point was that, at this point, even with those measurements [within 1-2 inches], we still can't conclusively rule out Oswald as Prayer Man, or vise-versa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James R Gordon Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Mark, I agree, Creating these figures did not mean I was saying it was or was not Oswald. I was simply trying to establish values whereby others can better judge who the figure might be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Knight Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 And I didn't mean my comment as a criticism. Just stating the obvious, as we search for the meaning of Prayer Man, and whether or not he and Oswald are one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James R Gordon Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 I have spent some time on PM, to give him his ascribed title. I cannot get any value for his height beyond 5'1". To begin with I questioned my calculations but soon realised that value had to be right. Having spent time carefully measuring this morning I get the following values. The width of the entrance 12' 3" The height of the entrance is 10' 7" The height of the door is 7" 3" Since I have been rationing there will be some error in the calculations. But they should not be too far out. So:- 1. If the height of the door is 7' 3", then the height of this guy has to be somewhere around 5'. By the RH edge of the door is a man. He has to be around 6' and he is clearly much taller than PM. Even the woman, who is standing in the middle of the door is taller than PM and yet she is shorter than the man at the edge of the door. 2. So, even if there are errors in my calculations, it will only be a couple of inches and therefore whoever PM is he cannot be Oswald. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanessa Loney Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Hi James Lovely to be back here. Thanks for letting me back on. In terms of heights, I'm 5 foot tall and I can tell you that I am always the shortest person in the room. I've rarely met women who are my height and never a man. I've lived in the US and Australia and I'd say it's incredibly unlikely that a white male would be only 5 foot tall, just from my experience. It's not impossible, of course, but if PM was only 5 foot tall I would expect him to have small arms too and PM's arm looks quite normal or large even compared to his body. His head and torso also look normal sized. I think it's very unlikely that PM is standing on the top landing of the steps. The TSBD door opens outwards and he would be pushed off the top landing every time someone opened the door to go in or out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Mitcham Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Hi James Lovely to be back here. Thanks for letting me back on. In terms of heights, I'm 5 foot tall and I can tell you that I am always the shortest person in the room. I've rarely met women who are my height and never a man. I've lived in the US and Australia and I'd say it's incredibly unlikely that a white male would be only 5 foot tall, just from my experience. It's not impossible, of course, but if PM was only 5 foot tall I would expect him to have small arms too and PM's arm looks quite normal or large even compared to his body. His head and torso also look normal sized. I think it's very unlikely that PM is standing on the top landing of the steps. The TSBD door opens outwards and he would be pushed off the top landing every time someone opened the door to go in or out. I agree with most of what you say, Vanessa except that Prayerman is standing in front of the fixed window of the entrance rather than the door. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James R Gordon Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Vanessa, Yes welcome back! I would hope you might engage in what I have done and the calculations I undertook and, of course their conclusion. First:- What was the basis of my calculations? The interior of the building - east to west - is 97' 3". North and South Dimensions are different. The width of the exterior wall is 16" - each side. = 99' 11" I rounded it to 100' I believe the length of the exterior wall is actually slightly longer. I took a high resolution image of the front of the TSBD and used a computer measuring tape to get what the value of 100' would be to that image. With that value I measured the entrance and ratioed the values. Aside from ratioing calculations, there is also the problem of perspective. And so I do not say my calculations are absolutely correct. However, forgetting that from these calculations I could not get past 5', this figure appears to have some validity. Look at the difference between the height of PM head and the top of the door. Also all the people in the main part of the image are standing on the same level. I accept there may be errors in the calculation, but I doubt it is anywhere near 9 - 10 inches. That said, the posture of the body made me wonder whether he was standing upright. I wondered whether he was crouched somewhat. Those were the reasons for my position. Length of arms did not enter into the question. If PM is Oswald - and I am not here to destroy that concept - and if I am right that the door is 7' 3" then this man cannot be 5' 9". That would mean his head is 1' 6" below the top of the door. The image makes clear that whoever this person is his head is a lot lower than 1' 6". James. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanessa Loney Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Thanks Ray. Please see the link below. At the very last comment there is a picture of a policeman holding the door open to let people in and out of the TSBD. He's not standing on the top landing to do that. He's on the next step down. If he were on the top landing he'd be in an awkward position when the door is being opened and closed. http://wwwjfkassassinationforum.com/index.php?topic=9549.36 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Mitcham Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Thanks Ray. Please see the link below. At the very last comment there is a picture of a policeman holding the door open to let people in and out of the TSBD. He's not standing on the top landing to do that. He's on the next step down. If he were on the top landing he'd be in an awkward position when the door is being opened and closed. http://wwwjfkassassinationforum.com/index.php?topic=9549.36 Your link doesn't work for me, Vanessa. Any other link? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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