CYRIL WECHT CLEANS POSNER CLOCK ON ANDERSON COOPER 360!

[James R Gordon]

Robert,

When I began examining the JFK assassination my main focus was directed by a single thought. I had noticed that people like Dale Myers, who although I disagree with his analysis I am in awe of his animation skills, was able to draw straight line trajectories. I could not understand how this bullet could travel in a straight line through a human body. I thought then, and I still think now, this is the true weakness in this theory. Outside the human body there are no obstacles to this bullet’s trajectory: inside the body is a veritable mine field of obstacles. And so I studied this aspect of the case and ended up writing an article on my thinking.

Pages 1 – 13 are about the anatomical weaknesses in the SBT. In those pages I do mention the tear to the trachea. You will find the first reference to that on page 11

In those first 13 pages I examine the SBT from within the medical criteria as laid down by Commander Humes. By that I mean that in the autopsy protocol he made a number of observations – or what I refer to as criteria for the SBT. These I list on page 4. The importance of these criteria is that any analysis of the SBT must comply with these criteria. And that includes what the SBT is not allowed to do.

My conclusions as to why I rejected the theory can be found on page 13.

Pages 14 to 24 look at the evidence that the throat wound was one of entrance.

Two points I felt were very important.

On Page 16 I show the X-rays and particularly example E. this was an xray taken before the autopsy began. I argue that it is clear major damage has been done to the vertebras because the whole neck and head slope to the right. This damage cannot be ascribed to Commander Humes because he had yet to start work on the body. I explain on the pages leading up to this point what caused that damage. When I first raised this issue, I remember someone suggesting that it was caused when the body was placed into the casket in Parkland. I have serious doubts that is a viable point.

On page 19 and following I look into the idea as to whether the lung had been damaged. The argument by the L/N’s is that the lung sustained no damage. I give reasons why that may well be in error.

And at this point, I agree I put my neck on the line. If the SBT is wrong and my analysis of the throat wound is right then the throat wound had to be an entry wound. However DVP, and others, take great delight taunting us with the question so where is this bullet?

My conclusion is that this damage to the lung is where the bullet rested and therefore, at some point, somebody somewhere removed it.

And I agree, at that point, I have entered David Lifton country.

Demise of the SBT:-

https://www.transferbigfiles.com/0a2eb94b-dd89-4cfc-b2a1-183dc0b76004/G9JdY7OpUr1LKTX72l1wwA2

James.

Edited November 26, 2013 by James R Gordon

[Bjørn Gjerde]

FBI agent Frazier admitted that they did not measure the right to left angle from the TSBD to JFK's stand-in in the limousine (pages 120-123 of transcript).

Bjørn Gjerde

this would make little difference because they used the wrong car.

In this case, which car they used in the recreation is irrelevant. The important thing is the lateral angle between the 6^th floor window of TSBD and the sagittal plane through JFK’s body at the time he was hit. Because Elm Street curves, that angle continually changed as the car moved down the street. An establishment of these lateral angels at different points along the street, would have shown that shots from 6^th floor window of TSBD would have exited on the LEFT side of JFK’s head or body.

Bjørn Gjerde

[James R Gordon]

Bjørn,

You make the point:"The important thing is the lateral angle between the 6^th floor window of TSBD and the sagittal plane through JFK’s body at the time he was hit."

That is not the important point. ​The implication you make is that the trajectory path inside and outside the body are equal. That they simply are not.

What you say about trajectory analysis outside the body is absolutely correct.

However for trajectory analysis inside the body, what you say is nonsense. Inside the body, what is important is the anatomical geography.

Within the body there are principles and conditions need to be abided by. Within the human body, you cannot make such a simplistic statement.

James.

[Bjørn Gjerde]

Bjørn,

You make the point:"The important thing is the lateral angle between the 6^th floor window of TSBD and the sagittal plane through JFK’s body at the time he was hit."

That is not the important point. ​The implication you make is that the trajectory path inside and outside the body are equal. That they simply are not.

What you say about trajectory analysis outside the body is absolutely correct.

However for trajectory analysis inside the body, what you say is nonsense. Inside the body, what is important is the anatomical geography.

Within the body there are principles and conditions need to be abided by. Within the human body, you cannot make such a simplistic statement.

James.

I didn't make any statements/implications about the precise trajctory inside the body. Of course the bullet may be deflected depending on the nature of the tissues it encounters, and the angel at which it strikes, but it will USUALLY continue in the same GENERAL direction as before it struck the body. It will not usually make a U-turn upon striking the body.

WC, on the other hand, seems to have presumed that the bullets went straight through JFK's and Connally's bodies without being (noticably) deflected.

Bjørn Gjerde

[Blair Dobson]

FBI agent Frazier admitted that they did not measure the right to left angle from the TSBD to JFK's stand-in in the limousine (pages 120-123 of transcript).

Bjørn Gjerde

this would make little difference because they used the wrong car.

In this case, which car they used in the recreation is irrelevant. The important thing is the lateral angle between the 6^th floor window of TSBD and the sagittal plane through JFK’s body at the time he was hit. Because Elm Street curves, that angle continually changed as the car moved down the street. An establishment of these lateral angels at different points along the street, would have shown that shots from 6^th floor window of TSBD would have exited on the LEFT side of JFK’s head or body.

Bjørn Gjerde

Absolute hogwash.

The height decides all the entry points and angles and the height of the seats in the recreation car was higher.

Oh yeah, there were four re-creations .

Edited November 26, 2013 by Blair Dobson

[Robert Prudhomme]

The really sad thing is that Rydberg and a goodly portion of the public seem to be unaware that the neck is not composed solely of flesh. Believe it or not, there are actually bones in the neck called "vertebrae" that have these lateral projections called "transverse processes". As the transverse processes of the lower cervical vertebrae and the top thoracic vertebra (T1) fit too tightly together to allow a bullet to pass between them, the Magic Bullet had no choice but to enter JFK at a location far to the right of the vertebrae, JUST to clear the transverse processes.

As the Magic Bullet also had to penetrate the right side of JFK's trachea (windpipe), I have calculated it had to travel at an angle of 26° right to left, from entrance to exit, as measured from a line drawn parallel to the long axis of the limo and centering through JFK's vertebrae, back to front. Allowing for a 5° turn to the right by JFK, this still leaves us with 21°. On such an angle, it would have been more likely to hit the driver Greer than JBC.

in regards to Greer and others in the car:

It's pretty amazing that no one else was hit.

It makes a good case for missed shots that the limo was redone and they didn't let anyone get close to it at parkland.

what I would have given to be there that day with a good camera and a telephoto lens....

Robert, what do you know about ar-15's and M-16's?

The reason I ask is that shooters from the front, if they miss, could hit background whereas shooters from the rear are mostly going to hit the car, SS men or open road.

My thinking is (not that the shooters may have even cared) that if they were using smaller ammo ( ar-15/m-16 ammo ) does this reduce the follow through of the bullet? are those shells more likely to stop and not go all the way through to say, hit a bystander or hit a SS guy in the front seat?

If the throat wound is an entry wound, I've always thought that the way it was described, it was small. those bullets are not much bigger than a 22 round are they not?

your thoughts are appreciated.

The AR15 (introduced in 1958) was a very new weapon in 1963, as was the .223 (5.56 mm) cartridge designed for it which is, as you point out, not much bigger in diameter than a .22 calibre bullet. In the same note, the 6.5 mm Carcano, at .257 calibre, is not much bigger in diameter than a .22, either. However, that is where the similarities end.

The .22 LR (long rifle) 40 grain round nosed bullet is loaded into a tiny rimfire cartridge, almost the same diameter as the bullet, and will leave the rifle at a muzzle velocity of about 1140 fps. The standard NATO 5.56x45 mm round (derived from the Remington .223 cartridge though not identical to it), used in the M16 and in service since 1962, fires a 62 grain spire pointed bullet at a muzzle velocity of around 3200 fps. The 6.5x52 mm Carcano round shoots a round nosed bullet that is 162 grains in weight and, when fired from the Carcano Model 91/38 (LHO alleged rifle), achieves a muzzle velocity of around 2200 fps. As you can see, we are comparing apples to oranges.

To understand why the Italians desired to rid themselves of the 6.5x52 mm cartridge in 1938, a close look at the 5.56x45 cartridge will be helpful.

The success or failure of a military cartridge can be summed up in two words: stopping power. Designers of military rounds have to work within the constraints of conventions governing war, and one of those is that bullets be made with "full metal jackets" to minimize their expansion within an enemy's body and thus the amount of damage. Without these rules, soldiers would all shoot soft tipped or hollow point bullets, wounds would be horrifying and the medical corps could be largely replaced with a corps of gravediggers. The trick is to work within these constraints and still come up with an ingenious design that will give a tiny light cartridge like the 5.56x45 mm, which allows troops to carry a greater number of rounds on their person, the stopping power of a very large cartridge, such as the 30-06.

The 5.56x45 mm is the very epitomization of this lightweight stopping power technology, and achieves this through three things; bullet shape, bullet construction and muzzle velocity. FMJ bullets have a habit of going right through whatever they shoot, without causing a lot of damage, and the round nosed bullets were the best at this. This is why Italian troops dubbed the 6.5x52 mm Carcano, a very long roundnosed bullet that stabilized well in flight, the "humanitarian rifle"; although reasonably accurate, enemy soldiers often received through and through clean wounds and just kept on coming. According to Italian soldiers, the one good feature of the Carcano is that it was possible to shoot more than one soldier with the same bullet. The 5.56 mm, on the other hand, was designed to inflict a LOT of damage. Its pointed tip, at the incredible muzzle velocity of 3200 fps, causes the bullet to tumble when it comes in contact with a hard surface, such as bone. As if this were not enough, the light construction of the 5.56 mm copper bullet jacket (as opposed to the extremely thick jacket wall of the 6.5 mm bullet) causes the bullet to break up and fragment. Suffice it to say, you do not want to get shot with a 5.56 mm bullet. There are anecdotal tales from Viet Nam of enemy soldiers being shot in the lower abdomen and fragments of 5.56 mm bullets exiting the upper abdomen. The Italians unsuccessfully went this route in 1938, replacing the roundnosed 162 grain 6.5x52 mm cartridge with a spire point 128 grain 7.35x51 mm cartridge. It was essentially the same brass cartridge and rifle as the 6.5 mm Carcano; only the barrel and bullet changed. To enhance the tumbling properties of the 7.35 mm spire pointed bullet, the inner tip of the bullet was made of aluminum instead of lead, encased in a copper jacket. This made the base of the spire pointed bullet that much more heavier than the tip, making it even more prone to tumble. The 7.35x51 mm was a good design but supply problems forced them to abandon it and go back to the 6.5x52 mm.

I know this has been a somewhat long winded answer to your question but, it is a complicated subject. To answer your question, I do not believe the 6.5x52 mm FMJ bullet to be a good choice to avoid collateral damage, for the above reasons, or a good choice for effective stopping power. The AR 15, also for reasons above, has excellent stopping power and, potentially, the capability to avoid collateral damage. This last is similar to why so many police forces have chosen hollow point pistol rounds. The rapid expansion of hollow points do great damage inside of a person accomplishing two things: stopping power and the prevention of that bullet from exiting the person you are shooting and carrying on to hit an innocent bystander. The 5.56 mm bullet, upon breaking up in a victim's body, loses its energy as it causes damage and, thus, tends to remain in the body of the victim.

All that being said, there is, to me, a peculiar pattern about all of the wounds suffered by JFK and JBC, save for the head wound JFK suffered. I hinted at this in a previous post and would like to discuss it further. I have some business to attend to, at the moment, but I will post about it tonight.

Edited November 26, 2013 by Robert Prudhomme

[Blair Dobson]

thank you very much Robert...Informative..

[Bjørn Gjerde]

FBI agent Frazier admitted that they did not measure the right to left angle from the TSBD to JFK's stand-in in the limousine (pages 120-123 of transcript).

Bjørn Gjerde

this would make little difference because they used the wrong car.

In this case, which car they used in the recreation is irrelevant. The important thing is the lateral angle between the 6^th floor window of TSBD and the sagittal plane through JFK’s body at the time he was hit. Because Elm Street curves, that angle continually changed as the car moved down the street. An establishment of these lateral angels at different points along the street, would have shown that shots from 6^th floor window of TSBD would have exited on the LEFT side of JFK’s head or body.

Bjørn Gjerde

Absolute hogwash.

The height decides all the entry points and angles and the height of the seats in the recreation car was higher.

Oh yeah, there were four re-creations .

The LATERAL angle refers to how far the shooter was to the right or the left of the imaginary plane through the midline of the victim, which is known as the sagittal plane. That angle doesn't depend much on how heigh above the ground the victim and/or shooter was. The WC only measured the VERTICAL angle relative to the horisontal plane, and then the heigth of the car in which the stand-in was seated CLEARLY was important. I have not disputed that fact at all. The WC more or less assumed that the shooter was directly behind JFK and Connally, and didn't measure the lateral angle, and that was the point Oser tried to expose in his examination of FBI agent Frazier in the Shaw trial.

Bjørn Gjerde

[Robert Prudhomme]

Okay, so, here is what bothers me about JFK's and JBC's wounds. If we assume the SBT to be wrong, this leaves us with five wounds that are difficult to explain. What I mean by this is the wound JFK received in the back at the level of the T3 vertebra, JFK's throat wound, JBC's back wound, JBC's wrist wound and JBC's thigh wound should all have resulted in greater damage than what is shown in the medical evidence. One at a time, let us look at them.

1. The back wound has pretty much been established as being 1.5-2" to the right of JFK's spine at the level of the 3rd thoracic vertebra (T3). A 162 grain bullet with a muzzle velocity of 2200 fps, at a range of under 50 yards, should have, at this location, penetrated his chest cavity and exited the other side, likely breaking a few ribs along the way. Yet, according to the autopsist, Dr. Humes, the bullet only penetrated an inch or so into JFK's back. Contradicting this, one witness present at the autopsy recalls, once JFK's abdominal and pleural organs had been eviscerated, seeing, from the inside of the pleural cavity, a probe from this wound actually coming as far as the pleural lining. Further evidence of damage to JFK's right lung can be found in Dr. Malcolm Perry's description of the emergency procedures they performed on JFK. He describes JFK as having his trachea deviated to the left side of his body. A deviated trachea is a symptom of only one thing, and that is a tension pneumothorax or "collapsed lung" on the side of the body away from the trachea's deviation. If the lung is damaged from, say, the shock of a bullet's impact, it can get a small hole in it. When the person attempts to breathe, the incoming air escapes through this hole into a space between the lung and the pleural lining, collapsing the lung as the volume trapped increases. Unable to escape, the air volume increases until it pushes the trachea, heart and unaffected lung to the far side of the pleural cavity. This is a medical emergency and, if left untreated, can quickly be fatal. The treatment is to insert a chest tube(s) into the pleural cavity to vent and relieve this air volume, and this is exactly what Dr. Perry describes. Chest tubes were either inserted or were on the verge of being inserted into JFK when resuscitation efforts were ceased. Later, it would be explained that the chest tubes were to relieve a condition known as "subcutaneous emphysema". This is a non-life threatening condition and it is unlikely it would have been attended to at this time, considering JFK's other mortal wounds. Dr. Perry also later claimed the chest tubes were inserted when he realized there was blood in the throat wound, doing so to deal with any chest wounds. This does not make a lot of sense, either, since they were unaware of the back wound and there were no other chest wounds. I submit the chest tubes were inserted immediately after the deviated trachea was spotted to relieve an obvious tension pneumothorax that was about to be made worse by positive ventilation. If Dr. Perry had been allowed to say this, though, it would have pointed to the back wound being at the level of T3 and the proponents of the SBT could not allow this.

2. The throat wound. Once again, a 162 grain bullet, at under 100 yards, with a muzzle velocity of 2200 fps, should have easily entered JFK's throat, penetrated the trachea and strap muscles and smashed its way through JFK's vertebrae, exiting the other side. While James Gordon's research has shown us obvious damage to JFK's vertebrae, the extensive damage one would expect just is not there. This is assuming, of course, that everything we are shown in the way of JFK's medical evidence is genuine.

3.JBC's back wound. Once again, James Gordon has shown us that the bullet that struck JBC's back did not actually penetrate JBC's thoracic cavity but, rather, wandered around it. What stopped it from simply going through the ribs? Lack of power?

4.JBC's wrist wound. The long hole in JBC's shirt cuff and the medical evidence presented by Dr. Gregory, in which he describes a 2.5 cm x .5 cm entrance wound to the dorsal surface of JBC's right wrist, clearly points to a de-stabilized bullet that had begun to tumble prior to striking JBC's wrist. It can be argued that this bullet was from a shot early in the assassination, intended for JFK, that struck a tree branch; deflecting it as well as destabilizing it. It can also be argued, though, that this bullet struck nothing between the muzzle and JBC and that it began tumbling for other reasons. What is more interesting is the relatively small amount of damage to JBC's wrist. Dr. Gregory himself testifies that, normally, an unimpeded rifle bullet striking the radius bone in the vicinity of the wrist would result in far more extensive bone damage, to the point of requiring amputation.

5.JBC's thigh wound. Once again, we have a bullet penetrating the skin and muscle layers of JBC's left inner thigh but doing no damage to the bone.

The only exception to all of these wounds is JFK's head wound.

I submit that the reason the five wounds described did not do as much damage as would be expected is that they were travelling at velocities far below the 2200 fps that is the typical muzzle velocity for a 6.5x52 Model 38/91 Carcano. There are several possible reasons for this.

1.Deteriorated ammunition. While it is assumed the 6.5 Carcano ammunition used in the assassination was all copper jacketed Western Cartridge Co. ammunition, it must be remembered that standard Italian military issue SMI 6.5x52 Carcano cartridges had been available since the end of the Second World War. One only has to think back to the Walker shooting, in which one DPD detective describes the recovered 6.5 Carcano bullet as "steel jacketed". While SMI did not produce any steel jacketed bullets, and these are typically covered in a light copper jacket to prevent rusting, SMI did make cupro-nickel jacketed bullets with a silvery appearance that could be mistaken for a steel jacket.

SMI ammunition was equipped with primers that had a corrosive compound in them that often led to primer failure and powder deterioration. For many decades, firearms experts have advised against shooting surplus SMI ammunition for this very reason.

Is it possible that the real shooters were shooting copper jacketed SMI surplus ammunition in their 6.5 mm Carcanos, not being aware they were in possession of substandard ammo that fell far short of the 2200 fps muzzle velocity needed to stabilize these bullets? Would this explain the bullet that entered JFK's back instead of his head?

2.Reduced powder loads. Blair Dobson put this seed in my mind the other day when he began wondering what could be done by the assassins to reduce collateral damage, if they were so inclined to worry about such a thing. The first thing I thought of was reducing the muzzle velocity of the bullets they were shooting to minimize damage to other limo occupants (such as LBJ's campaign manager, seated in front of JFK), should the FMJ bullets pass through JFK. This could easily be done by extracting the bullets from the cartridges, removing the powder, weighing it and only putting back as much powder as one thought necessary to make a head shot on JFK and reseating the bullets. As the intended kill shots were all under 50 yards, a bullet with drastically reduced muzzle velocity would still have killing power in that distance. However, as I explained to Blair, my experience in handloading rifle cartridges has shown that over OR under loading cartridges with powder can lead to destabilization and tumbling bullets.

Edited November 27, 2013 by Robert Prudhomme

[Blair Dobson]

Interesting stuff Robert and a well written post. Glad I could be of some help/inspiration if that's what it was...

after reading about frangible bullets and such over the years, I remembered a friend who packed his own shells and went a hunting and ended up mangling his buck.. I'll spare you that story..

I also wondered about the possibility of other weapons with different slugs such as the ar-15 and m-16 or variants.

your posts have clarified a number of my questions so thank you for your time and effort here...

Edited November 27, 2013 by Blair Dobson

[Robert Prudhomme]

LOL or, I could be right off the deep end. Tis a fine line between genius and insanity.

[Blair Dobson]

LOL or, I could be right off the deep end. Tis a fine line between genius and insanity.

thinking outside the box is never a bad thing..

[Robert Prudhomme]

LOL or, I could be right off the deep end. Tis a fine line between genius and insanity.

thinking outside the box is never a bad thing..

True. It's sad, though, that my keepers only let me out of the box for 30 minutes each day.