CYRIL WECHT CLEANS POSNER CLOCK ON ANDERSON COOPER 360!

[Chris Newton]

David,

And just how much velocity do you think it would take to enter JBC's thigh (but not strike the femur beneath the skin)?

Where is it cited in the W.C. that the bullet is "spent" when it hit's the thigh? Specter's supposition during Dr. Gregory's testimony? Dr. Gregory was not the surgeon who operated on the thigh wound. Why wasn't the Dr. that operated on the thigh interviewed in the W.C. report? I think the operative record in the W.C. index describes the exact opposite and that the actual testimony was clearly fudged, like a lot of it was because there is no adversarial lawyer and cross examination.

Edited November 24, 2013 by Chris Newton

[James R Gordon]

David Von Pein made the following point.

“A bullet that was almost completely out of gas hit that thigh.”

Until I saw the 2013 Nova program I might well have agreed with him. However Nova made clear that David’s statement is complete and utter nonsense. And that is not a comment of disrespect but fact. They were able to demonstrate that a Mannlicher Carcano bullet had the power to go through, I believe, 13 slats of pine. And what is even more amazing still be intact.

Staying with the SBT, from JFK’s entrance wound to Connally’s wrist wound the only bone the bullet actually strikes is Radius bone. The bullet does not strike the 5^th rib, it knocks into it from its side.

Therefore, unless David can cast doubt on the experiment on Nova, carried out by Lucien Haag, and demonstrate it is invalid then the idea that the Single bullet that can successfully pass through 13 slats of wood would be out of power having only struck the radius bone, it is clearly very wrong to suggest that the bullet was out of “gas” by the time it struck the thigh.

Robert Prudhomme made the following point.

“Enlarging this x-ray photo will help you to see that the radius bone (right side of right photo and same side as thumb) was not actually hit squarely by a bullet. In fact, the radius bone was hit more on the edge AWAY from the gap between the radius and ulna bones, yet somehow, CE 399 was able to pass BETWEEN the radius and the ulna. Did it put itself in reverse, back up two inches, and take another run at the gap between the bones? Enlarging this x-ray photo will help you to see that the radius bone (right side of right photo and same side as thumb) was not actually hit squarely by a bullet. In fact, the radius bone was hit more on the edge AWAY from the gap between the radius and ulna bones, yet somehow, CE 399 was able to pass BETWEEN the radius and the ulna. Did it put itself in reverse, back up two inches, and take another run at the gap between the bones?”

Robert makes the point I have also, at times, directed at David Von Pein and which he also ignored.

In lay language this bullet struck just behind the thumb on Dorsal side of the right hand. On the 3D model of the hand this is illustrated by the yellow circle. It exits on the palm side, or Volar side, around the middle of the wrist. In exiting in that position what the bullet has done is to separate the Hamate bone from metacarpal 5, which can be seen on the x-ray

The point that Robert makes, that is spot on, is if the bullet entered just below the thumb why does it not exit out the Dorsal side, the back of the hand? That is how Nova 2013 shows the exit. It should have exited out the Volar side.

Now why is Robert’s point so important and why did David ignore him? Because at this point the palm of the right hand, the Dorsal, was towards Connally’s chest.

So if the Single Bullet theory correctly follows the injuries sustained by John Connally, then it should have entered on his Dorsal just below the right thumb and exited in the middle of the Volar………………..

and then re-entered John Connally’s chest!!!!!!

Now that really is a magic bullet.

James.

[Blair Dobson]

Everybody needs to look at Dobson's last two childish posts, complete with so much name-twisting cuteness, it just makes you wanna pinch lil' ol' Blair's cheeks till they're beet red. He's just so adorable. ~yawn~

And yet it is me, Baron Von Painhausen, who Dobson says engages in "teenage antics".

The pot/kettle irony never ceases to flow from the JFK forums. Ya gotta love it.

play the victim, avoid questions, misdirect, divert attention.. " I know you are but what am I?"

David, answer the questions you've been given.

Edited November 24, 2013 by Blair Dobson

[Chris Newton]

James,

I concur with both your and Robert's explanation and thank you both for educating us.

The point I was trying to make is that in the W.C. report Spector suggests during Dr. Gregory's testimony that the bullet is laying just below the surface in the thigh. Gregory does not correct him because Gregory was not the Dr. that performed surgery on the thigh. The actual surgical operation record of the Dr. that cleaned and repaired that wound states that a fragment of a bullet was embedded in the Femur. No where in that operative record does it describe any attempt to remove that fragment.

Spector's remark is often repeated by LN'ers to support the theory that a spent bullet was in the thigh and worked it's way out. It's nonsense that was required by Spector to support his theory.

In the final analysis, much of the testimony is worthless because the attorney's doing the questioning shamelessly "lead" the witnesses. I've witnessed dozens of depositions that had no adversarial attorneys. Where are the objections? Misrepresent the facts? - no problem. Leading? -no problem? Repetitive? - no problem.

Operative Report of D. Shires:

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=946&relPageId=559

Edited November 24, 2013 by Chris Newton

[John Crites]

...

And finally, I emailed Posner from his website last week, asking him again about the recordings, and as of this date have not heard back from him.

So if anyone has any information as to Posner's claims of recording Boswell and Tague - once again thanks for sharing the information

perhaps emailing his attorney Mark Lane with your request will prompt an answer. Probably one you won't like.

David, I appreciate that. But Lawyer client privilege being what it is, I doubt if Lane would say anything. A side note; and it's been a long time but I believe that Posner testified to Congress that he had statements from Humes and Boswell that they changed their opinions as to the location of the entrance wound in the president's head, and he (Posner) had documentation to that as well.

I still would appreciate anybody that may have evidence that Posner has audio of conversations with Boswell and Tague to please post that information or documentation here. I have tried for probably 15 years to get Posner to reply.

[Blair Dobson]

Posner is a snake oil salesman...Good luck..

[John Crites]

Blair,

I'm still going to give him the benefit of the doubt - a chance (or for one of his confederates still at large) to come forward to the recordings of Boswell and Tague.

I mean the man has footnotes in "Case Closed" and statements al through the 90's that he had these recordings.

I think for his own professional reputation he would want to produce this evidence.

so once again, if anybody can reach Posner, find out if we can get access to these recordings.

[Blair Dobson]

Blair,

I'm still going to give him the benefit of the doubt - a chance (or for one of his confederates still at large) to come forward to the recordings of Boswell and Tague.

I mean the man has footnotes in "Case Closed" and statements al through the 90's that he had these recordings.

I think for his own professional reputation he would want to produce this evidence.

so once again, if anybody can reach Posner, find out if we can get access to these recordings.

I can understand that...tell him you are with Bill O'Reallys show and you are looking for the tapes...He'll take that call..

__________________

James R Gordon:

"David Von Pein made the following point.

“A bullet that was almost completely out of gas hit that thigh.”

let me fix this...

"David Von Pein made the following wild speculation .”

[Chris Newton]

A portion of the Op report (CE392):

Debridement /dɨˈbriːdmənt/ ^[1]is the medical removal of dead, damaged, or infected tissue to improve the healing potential of the remaining healthy tissue.

Edited November 24, 2013 by Chris Newton

[Thomas Graves]

[...] why does it not [???] exit out the Dorsal side, the back of the hand? [...] It should have [???] exited out the Volar .

?????????????

[...] at this point the palm of the right hand, the Dorsal, was towards Connally’s chest.

James, the palm side of the hand is not the "dorsal" side, it's the "volar," as you said earlier. But you get them mixed up in this sentence.

[emphasis added by T. Graves]

James,

I'm not trying to give you a hard time, but I don't understand. Please reread your post. The only conclusion I can come to is that you got your terms mixed up?

Sincerely,

--Tommy

Edited November 24, 2013 by Thomas Graves

[James R Gordon]

Thomas,

I see your confusion, and it might be my expression - but I meant what I said.

A shot, fired from the rear, and striking John Connally's just below the thumb on the Dorsal side ought to continue to exit out the Dorsal of the right hand - i.e. exit out the back of the hand.

However the exit wound was on the Volar side i.e. the palm side of the hand.

Now at Z 223/4 Connally's palm side of his hand is towards his chest. We do not see that at 223/4 but a few frames later when his hand is raised we then see how it was positioned.

So the point I was making was this. If the SBT replicates the wounds correctly that Connally's wrist suffered the the bullet enters just low the thumb and rather than exit out the back of the hand - actually turned and exited out the palm side. Now since, at that point, the palm was facing his chest the bullet then re-entered Connally's chest.

Of course I am not saying the bullet did that. However to replicate the wounds Connally suffered that is what the bullet would have had to do.

James.

[Thomas Graves]

Thomas,

I see your confusion, and it might be my expression - but I meant what I said.

A shot, fired from the rear, and striking John Connally's just below the thumb on the Dorsal side ought to continue to exit out the Dorsal of the right hand - i.e. exit out the back of the hand.

However the exit wound was on the Volar side i.e. the palm side of the hand.

Now at Z 223/4 Connally's palm side of his hand is towards his chest. We do not see that at 223/4 but a few frames later when his hand is raised we then see how it was positioned.

So the point I was making was this. If the SBT replicates the wounds correctly that Connally's wrist suffered the the bullet enters just low the thumb and rather than exit out the back of the hand - actually turned and exited out the palm side. Now since, at that point, the palm was facing his chest the bullet then re-entered Connally's chest.

Of course I am not saying the bullet did that. However to replicate the wounds Connally suffered that is what the bullet would have had to do.

James.

bumped by mistake

Edited November 24, 2013 by Thomas Graves

[Thomas Graves]

[...] why does it not [???] exit out the Dorsal side, the back of the hand? [...] It should have [???] exited out the Volar .

?????????????

[...] at this point the palm of the right hand, the Dorsal, was towards Connally’s chest.

James, the palm side of the hand is not the "dorsal" side, it's the "volar," as you said earlier. But you get them mixed up in this sentence.

[emphasis added by T. Graves]

James,

I'm not trying to give you a hard time, but I don't understand. Please reread your post. The only conclusion I can come to is that you got your terms mixed up?

Sincerely,

--Tommy

edited and bumped

Edited November 24, 2013 by Thomas Graves

[Robert Prudhomme]

David Von Pein made the following point.

“A bullet that was almost completely out of gas hit that thigh.”

Until I saw the 2013 Nova program I might well have agreed with him. However Nova made clear that David’s statement is complete and utter nonsense. And that is not a comment of disrespect but fact. They were able to demonstrate that a Mannlicher Carcano bullet had the power to go through, I believe, 13 slats of pine. And what is even more amazing still be intact.

Staying with the SBT, from JFK’s entrance wound to Connally’s wrist wound the only bone the bullet actually strikes is Radius bone. The bullet does not strike the 5^th rib, it knocks into it from its side.

Therefore, unless David can cast doubt on the experiment on Nova, carried out by Lucien Haag, and demonstrate it is invalid then the idea that the Single bullet that can successfully pass through 13 slats of wood would be out of power having only struck the radius bone, it is clearly very wrong to suggest that the bullet was out of “gas” by the time it struck the thigh.

Robert Prudhomme made the following point.

“Enlarging this x-ray photo will help you to see that the radius bone (right side of right photo and same side as thumb) was not actually hit squarely by a bullet. In fact, the radius bone was hit more on the edge AWAY from the gap between the radius and ulna bones, yet somehow, CE 399 was able to pass BETWEEN the radius and the ulna. Did it put itself in reverse, back up two inches, and take another run at the gap between the bones? Enlarging this x-ray photo will help you to see that the radius bone (right side of right photo and same side as thumb) was not actually hit squarely by a bullet. In fact, the radius bone was hit more on the edge AWAY from the gap between the radius and ulna bones, yet somehow, CE 399 was able to pass BETWEEN the radius and the ulna. Did it put itself in reverse, back up two inches, and take another run at the gap between the bones?”

Robert makes the point I have also, at times, directed at David Von Pein and which he also ignored.

In lay language this bullet struck just behind the thumb on Dorsal side of the right hand. On the 3D model of the hand this is illustrated by the yellow circle. It exits on the palm side, or Volar side, around the middle of the wrist. In exiting in that position what the bullet has done is to separate the Hamate bone from metacarpal 5, which can be seen on the x-ray

The point that Robert makes, that is spot on, is if the bullet entered just below the thumb why does it not exit out the Dorsal side, the back of the hand? That is how Nova 2013 shows the exit. It should have exited out the Volar side.

Now why is Robert’s point so important and why did David ignore him? Because at this point the palm of the right hand, the Dorsal, was towards Connally’s chest.

So if the Single Bullet theory correctly follows the injuries sustained by John Connally, then it should have entered on his Dorsal just below the right thumb and exited in the middle of the Volar………………..

and then re-entered John Connally’s chest!!!!!!

Now that really is a magic bullet.

James.

Excellent post, James, and thank you for stating so simply and eloquently what I often find difficult to express.

I believe the wound to JBC's wrist to be the least studied aspect of the entire SBT debacle yet, in its simplicity, it has the potential to destroy Arlen Specter's mythology.

When pressed by Arlen Specter, Dr. Gregory adamantly states the path of the bullet to be from the back side of JBC's wrist, between the radius and ulna bone and exiting the volar or palm side of JBC's wrist. He has many reasons for believing this, including material from JBC's suit dragged into the wound. His WC testimony may be read here:

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=34&relPageId=126

As James points out, this is a trifle difficult, as the palm side of JBC's wrist was facing JBC's chest when the bullet exited his chest. Even if there had been no film footage of JBC at this moment, the simple fact of the matter is that no one, unless severely double jointed in the elbow, can hold his wrist at chest level and rotate his forearm backwards to the point the back of his wrist is facing his chest.

What is puzzling is that Dr. Gregory, in his testimony, endorses Specter's theory that a bullet exiting JBC's chest could enter the back of his wrist and exit the palm side of his wrist. Dr. Gregory has clearly not thought this through and seen the impossibility of this scenario OR he is another witness pressured into endorsing Specter's SBT theory. Either way, it does not matter; holding the back of the wrist flat to the chest cannot be done.

This is the one glaring defect of the SBT, and numerous Lame Nut cartoons, such as Nova 2013, have attempted to evade this problem by showing CE 399 entering the palm side of JBC's wrist and exiting the back of his wrist, as James pointed out. This type of deception is typical of the LN crowd.

[Gary Murr]

Gentlemen:

If I may interject here ever so briefly, in an effort to help everyone involved in this thread [and to a large extent in a previous thread that dealt with CE 399 and its impact on the right radius of John Connally], I am hopefully attaching two images which indicate the actual point of impact of the missile which caused the fracture to the distal fourth ["bottom" end] of John Connally's right radius, and one should be clear on this point - the fracture was on the Governor's radius, not his "wrist" as is most commonly and inaccurately stated. One is a sketch I had prepared by a medical student onto which I have place a red dot indicating the point of impact; the other is an enlargement from the first page of the original, handwritten post-op notes prepared by Dr. Charles Gregory less than two hours after he completed his operating procedures. Part of Dr. Gregory's rational for constructing this diagram was to indicate what he meant by leaving a portion of the radial wound site "open" - i.e. not sutured closed. This was done in the event that Dr. Gregory had missed impact debris, irrespective of its makeup, debris in turn that might have caused infection. Please note where Dr. Gregory drew this impact aperture - on the lateral side of the end of the radius. Dr. Gregory was right-handed and thus when he drew this diagram he did so while using his left arm as a "model" that is why we, the viewer, are looking at a sketch that shows the "left" radius. I discussed this issue with Dr. Shaw and he indicated to me that this was indeed true. If you read Dr. Gregory's testimony before the WC you will note that he also drew this same impact point for those members of the Commission present during his April 21, 1964 testimony session. And again, because Dr. Gregory was right handed, he drew this impact point for the Commission on his left radius, a point again confirmed for me by Dr. Shaw. The main point here is that whatever struck the end of John Connally's right radius did not impact on the "top" or back/middle of the end of the right radius. Rather it struck this same radius along its lateral, right side, slightly toward the top of the radius but not on the top of the radius. When you look at the PMH pre-op X-ray of this radial wound, an image that was taken facing the palmar surface of the right arm and hand, you will note that this same lateral impact has caused the fracture to be dispersed laterally toward the end of the right ulna. And finally when you compare the Connally pre-op X-rays of this wound site, both lateral and palm-facing, to those "comparative" X-rays generated during the Edgewood Arsenal tests of attempted duplication, you will note just how severe the disruption of bone and tissue is in the Edgewood images versus those of the PMH images.

FWIW

Gary Murr

Edited February 6 by Gary Murr