Heavy Set, Middle-Aged Man Put in Police Car …

[Richard Hocking]

Tommy,

I also believe that is the same man in all three photos.

My best guess is that it is Robert Edwards.

[Richard Hocking]

Suspects and Witnesses

Several of the above individuals are not yet identified.

Still have no Photos or film of:

- heavy set, middle-aged man being placed in Police car filmed by Sanderson and possibly others

- Billy Lovelady, Jack Dougherty, or Charles Givens being escorted away from the TSBD by Police

- SS Man described by Craig (Bradley) in front of the TSBD

- Forrest Sorrels at the TSBD

- Suspect arrested by Officer W. H. Denham on the 3rd floor

- Female suspect arrested by Craig attempting to leave parking lot

- Arrest of Jim Braden on November 22, 1963

It's time to bump this with a brief addition.

Charles Givens testimony excerpt:

"Officer Dawson saw me and he called me and asked me was my name Charles Givens, and I said," yes."

And he said, "We want you to go downtown and make a statement."

And he puts me in the car and takes me down to the city hall and I made a statement to Will Fritz down there."

We already have photos and film clips of TSBD employees Bill Shelley, Danny Arce, and Bonnie Ray Williams being escorted into a patrol car to be taken to Fritz office.

Givens confirms that he also was taken to Fritz office in a Patrol car by an officer named Dawson. There are two Dawsons listed on the Dallas force at that time, one is a patrolman and one is a Detective. I have searched for reports or statements for these two, and so far, have not been able to find a report that references picking up Givens.

Also, Still unaccounted for are Billy Lovelady and Jack Dougherty. Both were taken to Fritz office. It is reasonable to think they would have been transported in a police car like the other 4 TSBD employees.

Still searching for photo or film that documents them being picked up by the police.

[Thomas Graves]

Suspects and Witnesses

Several of the above individuals are not yet identified.

Still have no Photos or film of:

- heavy set, middle-aged man being placed in Police car filmed by Sanderson and possibly others

- Billy Lovelady, Jack Dougherty, or Charles Givens being escorted away from the TSBD by Police

- SS Man described by Craig (Bradley) in front of the TSBD

- Forrest Sorrels at the TSBD

- Suspect arrested by Officer W. H. Denham on the 3rd floor

- Female suspect arrested by Craig attempting to leave parking lot

- Arrest of Jim Braden on November 22, 1963

It's time to bump this with a brief addition.

Charles Givens testimony excerpt:

"Officer Dawson saw me and he called me and asked me was my name Charles Givens, and I said," yes."

And he said, "We want you to go downtown and make a statement."

And he puts me in the car and takes me down to the city hall and I made a statement to Will Fritz down there."

We already have photos and film clips of TSBD employees Bill Shelley, Danny Arce, and Bonnie Ray Williams being escorted into a patrol car to be taken to Fritz office.

Givens confirms that he also was taken to Fritz office in a Patrol car by an officer named Dawson. There are two Dawsons listed on the Dallas force at that time, one is a patrolman and one is a Detective. I have searched for reports or statements for these two, and so far, have not been able to find a report that references picking up Givens.

Also, Still unaccounted for are Billy Lovelady and Jack Dougherty. Both were taken to Fritz office. It is reasonable to think they would have been transported in a police car like the other 4 TSBD employees.

Still searching for photo or film that documents them being picked up by the police.

Richard,

I have never understood why so many witnesses were put in police cars to travel such a short distance.

--Tommy

Edited January 2, 2014 by Thomas Graves

[Robert Prudhomme]

LOL Tommy, you have a knack for pointing out very obvious things that most of us miss. Good observation!

[Richard Hocking]

"I have never understood why so many witnesses were put in police cars to travel such a short distance.

--Tommy

Tommy,

Those Suspects/Witnesses taken by car went to Fritz office.

The Sheriff's office was kitty-corner, across the street from the TSBD.

Fritz office was in the Dallas Municipal Courts building about 7 blocks away around Main and Harwood, that also housed the City jail.

What is interesting is who got sent where. Most of the witnesses walked over to the Sheriff's office, along with suspects like Larry Florer.

But the entire "Floor Laying Crew" on the 6th floor was sent to Fritz office, along with Jack Dougherty.

Edited January 30, 2014 by Richard Hocking

[Linda Giovanna Zambanini]

I have always wondered what is going on in the top left of this frame. It seems to have to attention of several of the other people standing around.

I've never seen that photo before either! Great find! It does grab my attention too. Do you know who it's by? It appears to be a still/screen capture from a film. Do you know who took the photo - or who filmed it and/or which video it came from so i can (hopefully) see it in context with the rest of the film online to get an idea of when it was taken etc...Thanks, James!

[Thomas Graves]

I have always wondered what is going on in the top left of this frame. It seems to have to attention of several of the other people standing around.

I've never seen that photo before either! Great find! It does grab my attention too. Do you know who it's by? It appears to be a still/screen capture from a film. Do you know who took the photo - or who filmed it and/or which video it came from so i can (hopefully) see it in context with the rest of the film online to get an idea of when it was taken etc...Thanks, James!

Linda,

Go to Jame's "profile" and you'll see he hasn't been here for a coon's age. Last time I checked.

--Tommy

[Martin Blank]

could it be this guy that lee bowers talks about to WC and who appears at the end of the hughes film not far from where tan jacket man was and later at the TSBD. older guy, white shirt, black pants.

Mr. BOWERS - Directly in line, towards the mouth of the underpass, there were two men. One man, middle-aged, or slightly older, fairly heavy-set, in a white shirt, fairly dark trousers. Another younger man, about midtwenties, in either a plaid shirt or plaid coat or jacket.

Mr. BALL - Were they standing together or standing separately?

Mr. BOWERS - They were standing within 10 or 15 feet of each other, and gave no appearance of being together, as far as I knew.

Mr. BALL - In what direction were they facing?

Mr. BOWERS - They were facing and looking up towards Main and Houston, and following the caravan as it came down.

don;t know how to post photos or videos. may be someone can help. thanks

don't know if he was put in a police car

[Thomas Graves]

could it be this guy that lee bowers talks about to WC and who appears at the end of the hughes film not far from where tan jacket man was and later at the TSBD. older guy, white shirt, black pants.

Mr. BOWERS - Directly in line, towards the mouth of the underpass, there were two men. One man, middle-aged, or slightly older, fairly heavy-set, in a white shirt, fairly dark trousers. Another younger man, about midtwenties, in either a plaid shirt or plaid coat or jacket.

Mr. BALL - Were they standing together or standing separately?

Mr. BOWERS - They were standing within 10 or 15 feet of each other, and gave no appearance of being together, as far as I knew.

Mr. BALL - In what direction were they facing?

Mr. BOWERS - They were facing and looking up towards Main and Houston, and following the caravan as it came down.

don;t know how to post photos or videos. may be someone can help. thanks

don't know if he was put in a police car

Martin,

At what times (xx:xx) in this youtube video is he visible?

Thanks,

--Tommy

[Martin Blank]

in rail yards approximately 1:27 to 1:29 far right of frame under some kind of fixture/sign/light this is quick

tsbd approximately1:35 until end in front of african american man

[Thomas Graves]

in rail yards approximately 1:27 to 1:29 far right of frame under some kind of fixture/sign/light this is quick

tsbd approximately1:35 until end in front of african american man

Nice catch, Martin.

We might be looking at one of the bad guys here. The white shirt, dark pants, and heaviness of the man, all of which Bowers described, are dead giveaways.

--Tommy

[Martin Blank]

no credit goes to me but to a friend who wishes to remain nameless.

[Tom Neal]

in rail yards approximately 1:27 to 1:29 far right of frame under some kind of fixture/sign/light this is quick

tsbd approximately1:35 until end in front of african american man

Martin & Tommy,

Thanks for the time references and video.

Tom

Edited August 30, 2015 by Tom Neal

[Clive Largey]

From one of Denis Morisette's posts.



Also thirteen minutes into this you get to see Darnell speak a little

http://www.c-span.org/video/?52520-1/journalists-remember-jfk-assassination

[Thomas Graves]

From one of Denis Morisette's posts.



Also thirteen minutes into this you get to see Darnell speak a little

http://www.c-span.org/video/?52520-1/journalists-remember-jfk-assassination

Clive,

Thanks for the photos of Bob Edwards. Now we know for sure who that young man in the white shirt was.

Here's Edwards' WC testimony:

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=35#relPageId=210&tab=page

Here's his 11/22/63 affidavit:

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1136#relPageId=665&tab=page

I can understand Edwards' mistaking the sixth floor for the fifth floor if it's true, as he explained in his WC testimony, he hadn't counted the first floor when he gave his affidavit. What's interesting to me is that he said in the affidavit that the (corner) window in which he saw the thin-to-medium build, light-brown haired, white guy before the motorcade came by was wide open, all the way up, and that the "26-year-old-looking" guy crowded in among the boxes in that window was wearing a light-colored sport shirt, white or yellow in color. In his WC testimony, Edwards said the shirt was open at the neck, and all of this suggests to me that the guy Edwards saw wasn't wearing just a white t-shirt. I don't think the long-sleeved shirt Oswald was arrested in could be called "light colored," and I have never seen a photo of him wearing a long-sleeved shirt with the sleeves rolled up, so I think the guy Edwards (and his friend Fischer) saw in the sixth floor window was somebody other than Lee Harvey Oswald.

BTW, you don't think Edwards was the heavy-set, "broad in the beam" guy in the greens circles in Martin Blank's post, do you?

Thanks,

--Tommy

Edited August 31, 2015 by Thomas Graves