Robin Unger Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Unger Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 As can be seen from Bronson The 3 - Zapruder ladies are NOT actually standing next to the Stemmons sign They are standing some distance away from it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Unger Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Unger Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Unger Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 Credit Gerda Dunckel Couch film breaks to the left, Darnell film breaks to the right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Prudhomme Posted May 21, 2015 Author Share Posted May 21, 2015 As can be seen from Bronson The 3 - Zapruder ladies are NOT actually standing next to the Stemmons sign They are standing some distance away from it. I can see now I was mistaken about Calvary being within a few feet of the Stemmons sign. The still from Betzner shows it best, that she was actually quite a ways from it. I also thought UM and DCM were on the other side of the sign from her but that is obviously incorrect, too. It's interesting how perspective can fool a person in these photos. I still find it very interesting that Ms. Calvary stated the first shot occurred when JFK was directly in front of her. Looking at the Betzner still, and frames from Zapruder, this would seem to place JFK behind the Stemmons sign (from Zapruder's perspective) at the time of the first shot, and make an earlier missed shot unlikely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Unger Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 (edited) Yes, because Zapruders camera was on ZOOM people and objects appeared closer than they really where thats why it's so important to always cross refference the photo's,so you can can a better perspective Bronson crop. Edited May 21, 2015 by Robin Unger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Largey Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 Hi Clive The woman seen running behind Baker in the Couch film is on the Elm St. extension, and not Elm St. proper. Would she have climbed the bank from Elm St. just to run up the extension or would she have just run up the sidewalk, if we assume she was standing on the Elm St. sidewalk? P.S. It appears that the person we are assuming to be Lovelady is already talking to a person in a light skirt and dark top when the woman is seen running behind Baker, in a light top and dark skirt. As established earlier, Calvary was supposedly wearing a dark top and light skirt. Could be Robert yes, ran into the shelter perhaps, then along the walkway and through the gap in the wall but I just don't see anyone north of Elm and west of Croft with her description, so I have to consider this general area the prime spot. If Lovelady was correct in naming Calvary as the first person to give him the news it could be minutes after 12:30 because isn't that frame that shows the three women after Darnell got back from the knoll? IMHO for a woman to witness, I mean truly witness the headshot so that she hysterically runs back to the TSBD through shock and gets there and is already telling BL about it before Baker gets anywhere near the entrance is asking quite a lot, I mean I'm far more comfortable with the idea that Lovelady was just mistaken on the time but it's not impossible especially since someone has to have told Smith to look in the bushes and he is already heading that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Prudhomme Posted May 21, 2015 Author Share Posted May 21, 2015 Hi Clive The woman seen running behind Baker in the Couch film is on the Elm St. extension, and not Elm St. proper. Would she have climbed the bank from Elm St. just to run up the extension or would she have just run up the sidewalk, if we assume she was standing on the Elm St. sidewalk? P.S. It appears that the person we are assuming to be Lovelady is already talking to a person in a light skirt and dark top when the woman is seen running behind Baker, in a light top and dark skirt. As established earlier, Calvary was supposedly wearing a dark top and light skirt. Could be Robert yes, ran into the shelter perhaps, then along the walkway and through the gap in the wall but I just don't see anyone north of Elm and west of Croft with her description, so I have to consider this general area the prime spot. If Lovelady was correct in naming Calvary as the first person to give him the news it could be minutes after 12:30 because isn't that frame that shows the three women after Darnell got back from the knoll? IMHO for a woman to witness, I mean truly witness the headshot so that she hysterically runs back to the TSBD through shock and gets there and is already telling BL about it before Baker gets anywhere near the entrance is asking quite a lot, I mean I'm far more comfortable with the idea that Lovelady was just mistaken on the time but it's not impossible especially since someone has to have told Smith to look in the bushes and he is already heading that way. This is what is so puzzling, Clive. Both Bill Shelley and Billy Lovelady testified to remaining on the steps for 3-4 minutes, following the shots, before Gloria Calvary returned to the steps with news of the assassination, and only then did they do their walkabout through the rail yard. In their first day statements, Shelley was the only one of the two to mention Ms. Calvary, only in this version, she had come running back up, and he ran out to the concrete island to talk to her and get the news. It seems that, at some point, Ms. Calvary did come running back up to the steps, but I cannot see how she was able to do this PLUS relate the news to Shelley and Lovelady before Baker arrived at the steps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Largey Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 Well at least one thing we can say for sure is, is that both Shelley and Lovelady needed to be told there was a shooting from someone who was stood much closer to the limo at the time and PM and Frasier could hardly be any wiser but when that actually happened for them exactly is anyone's guess. Would you stand on the steps after hearing that news? The man you were just waving at has been shot? I sure wouldn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Graves Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 (edited) Credit Gerda Dunckel Couch film breaks to the left, Darnell film breaks to the right Can any of the people standing on the sidewalk way down on Elm Street be identified at the end of the Couch clip? What about the lady wearing the full-length black dress? BTW, Is that the hatless, dark-suited "Lansdale figure" much closer to the camera and walking fast down the street close to the curb? --Tommy Edited May 22, 2015 by Thomas Graves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Largey Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 Tommy, my best guess. Could it be the hard hatted man and the two gals standing either side of him in Z? To be honest I'm not sure if it's the same lamppost but I suppose it must be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Graves Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 (edited) Tommy, my best guess. Could it be the hard hatted man and the two gals standing either side of him in Z? To be honest I'm not sure if it's the same lamppost but I suppose it must be. Excellent observation, Clive. In the Z film the two gals are standing, not on either side of hard hat man, but next to each other to the immediate right of hard hat man. (One of the girls is wearing a fairly long black dress and blouse, not a dark blue dress like the girl you chose, and might even be the woman who is standing nine people down the sidewalk from hard hat man in the Z film. In the Croft clip this woman's skirt seems to be not only fairly long, but also a little lighter color (dark gray?) than her blouse.) Regardless, it's interesting to note that everyone standing down the sidewalk from them towards the Stemmons sign in the Z film, including Calvary, have already left in the Couch clip. --Tommy Edited May 25, 2015 by Thomas Graves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Largey Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 I was expecting to see that Calvary group too Tommy. There's at least two of them still in position in Wiegman though, (near the limo frame) from that group of five women. So the other two or three reacted pretty quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Graves Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 (edited) Robin, it is in a statement Gloria Calvary (Mrs. Robert R. Calvary) gave to the FBI, and it can be found in Commission Exhibit No. 1381: http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh22/pdf/WH22_CE_1381.pdf "I am of the Caucasian race, twenty-one years of age....." Robert, Turns out they got her husband's middle initial wrong in Gloria's WC statement, and you've mis-spelled her last name. As have many, many, many other "researchers," so don't feel bad. Here's her WC statement. Note the "e" in Calvery. http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh22/html/WH_Vol22_0334b.htm Her husband's name was Robert L. Calvery. They divorced in 1978. http://marriage-divorce-records.mooseroots.com/l/54825526/Robert-L-Calvery Gloria J. Calvery's maiden name was Gloria Jean Little. She was born in 1942, probably in Bonham, Texas. She was raised in Grand Prairie, Texas, not far from Fort Worth. Here's her mother's obituary: http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/dallasmorningnews/obituary.aspx?n=ila-mae-little&pid=86457565 Gloria's brother is still alive and viewable on the Internet, if you know where to look. FWIW, He looks 100% Caucasian (white). Edit: This is Gloria's father, James Stewart Little. It says he was white. http://www.ancestry.com/1940-census/usa/Texas/James-S-Little_5lh7g3 --Tommy Edited July 5, 2015 by Thomas Graves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Please sign in to comment
You will be able to leave a comment after signing in
Sign In Now