Robert Prudhomme Posted August 7, 2015 Author Share Posted August 7, 2015 According to Ms. Sanders, O.V. Campbell arrived (at the top of the stairs, I presume) shortly after Baker entered the TSBD. Assuming Baker and Truly to be telling the truth about entering the building, they are well on their way to going up the stairs as Campbell and Sanders are discussing the origin of the shots. Therefore, if Campbell sees Oswald in the 1st floor storage locker under the stairs, he is not with Truly and Baker, and Oswald cannot be in the 1st floor storage locker and the 2nd floor lunch room at the same time. However, there is no indication when Campbell entered the building, although Sanders said she re-entered the building within five minutes of the last shot. If Reid, Sanders and Campbell (plus others) entered the building as a group, as observed by one witness, this could give Oswald time to descend from the 2nd floor. Interesting twist on the story; Oswald and Truly having lunch together on the 2nd floor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Knight Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 Mrs. Sanders sure included a LOT of hearsay in her statement to the FBI, it seems to me.... Funny how she spoke in 3rd person, too. [For those who didn't catch it...that second line is intended to be sarcasm.] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Graves Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 (edited) Oh, brother, another JFK myth shot down. Robert, Maybe someone should politely and discretely ask Karan Hicks, Karen Westbrook, Carol Reed, or Gloria's former co-worker at the tire store, Dana Herring, whether or not the "Gloria Calvary" [sic] on Elm Street was the Gloria Jean Little / Gloria Jean Calvery they knew. Or, heck, even contact her brother, Jim Little, in Plano / Dallas... --Tommy That would definitely prove things beyond a doubt, although I believe the odds of another Robert Calvery marrying another Gloria Jean Little in Dallas, Texas are almost too astronomical to consider. So, where does this leave us? According to her statement. she was watching the motorcade, along with Westbrook, Hicks and Reed, on the north side of Elm St., about halfway between Houston St. and the Triple Underpass. It is not hard to recognize, from the back side, the blonde haired Hicks and Reed in her scarf but, is it possible that really is Calvery with her back to us, and another woman altogether in the lower photo who Mr. Speth has mistaken for Calvery, simply because of the similarity of her attire? Did Calvery take off for the TSBD as soon as the shots started? Nope. Here she is standing on the grass in a Jack Martin frame. (This Jack Martin was the one who a postal worker and worked at the big Terminal Annex Building, across the plaza) And note the other putative "Gloria Calver" wearing the white blouse and red dress, standing in the street. And photographer Malcolm Couch (who has already filmed Running Woman on Elm Street Extension) in the car. Bummer. I guess that means Running Woman (with light-colored blouse/sweater and dark-colored skirt) wasn't Gloria Calvery after all. Dang. Credit: I stole this image from the evil evil Duncan MacRae's "disinfo" website, jfkassassinationforum.com The frame is from 0:18 in this video: --Tommy Edited September 3, 2015 by Thomas Graves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Prudhomme Posted September 3, 2015 Author Share Posted September 3, 2015 Quite frankly, neither of those women look like Gloria Calvery. As I'm repeatedly told, the "Running Woman" was far too slender to be Gloria Calvery. Doesn't the woman in the red skirt appear to be too slender, as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Graves Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 (edited) Quite frankly, neither of those women look like Gloria Calvery. As I'm repeatedly told, the "Running Woman" was far too slender to be Gloria Calvery. Doesn't the woman in the red skirt appear to be too slender, as well? Robert, I guess that all depends on who you think "Gloria Calvery" was. Do you mean the woman at whose wedding (in July of 1963) "Bill Shelley of Dallas" was the best man? Do you mean the former "Gloria Jean Little" from Grand Prairie, Texas? --Tommy PS But I think you're right. We do need to look for a kinda tall, kinda heavy-set, blondish, light-complected, glasses-wearing woman standing near Karan Hicks, Carol Reed, and Karen Westbrook down on Elm Street during the motorcade. If we can't find her, then we're gotta have to start wondering whether or not she was any good with a rifle. (Hey! Maybe S & L & Molina were covering for her. LOL!!!) It would be real nice to find some verified photos of Hicks, Reed, and Westbrook in order to help us locate Calvery. BTW, Ronald Fischer did mention to the WC that he saw a tall woman enter the front door of the TSBD a few minutes before the assassination. Could that have been the tall and pregnant Carolyn Arnold going inside for yet another glass of water? From the WC testimony of Ronald B. Fischer: Mr. BELIN - Now, on this written statement it says that you remember a tall girl walking into the School Book Depository Building there at about the time you saw the man? [in the sixth floor window] Mr. FISCHER - Yes. Mr. BELIN - Did you see such a girl walk in the building? Mr. FISCHER - I can.'t remember. It must have been before. It must have been just before uh--I saw the man in the window. I can't remember very well. It's been too long. I believe it was before I saw the man in the window that I saw her walk into the building. Like I say, I made a mental note of it but I didn't pay too much attention at the time. http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/fischer.htm His affidavit of 11/22/63: https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1136#relPageId=493&tab=page Edited September 4, 2015 by Thomas Graves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Graves Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 (edited) Thomas Two excellent questions (the last two), and if I had the answers to them, I would likely be a wealthy man. I am somewhat baffled by the WC testimonies of witnesses who were standing on the steps of the TSBD. On one hand, it is glaringly evident many of them told vastly different stories to the WC than what was said in their early statements. Naturally, we assume they were coerced into these stories by the perpetrators of the coverup. And then we get to Baker entering the TSBD with Truly, and suddenly the only witnesses who can recall seeing Truly and Baker going up the front steps are Lovelady and Shelley. And they claim to have witnessed this from a place, according to the time lines in their testimonies, it was impossible for them to be in. If we were the conspirators of the coverup, wouldn't we have coached Frazier, Molina and several others on the steps to testify to seeing a white helmeted motorcycle cop go past them on the steps? Yet they saw no cop. Something is desperately wrong with everything we are told happened on those steps that day. I believe the answer is in the statements and testimonies, and it is just a matter of piecing it all together. I believe that the clues in Shelley's / Lovelady's / Baker's / Truly's / Calvery's statements and /or testimonies must be compared and contrasted with the photographic record. --Tommy Edited September 6, 2015 by Thomas Graves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Prudhomme Posted September 16, 2015 Author Share Posted September 16, 2015 (edited) After scrutinizing Bill Shelley's WC testimony more closely, it turns out he did not actually see Baker and Truly enter the TSBD. "Mr. BALL - How did you happen to see Truly? Mr. SHELLEY - We ran out on the island while some of the people that were out watching it from our building were walking back and we turned around and we saw an officer and Truly.Mr. BALL - And Truly?Mr. SHELLEY - Yes.Mr. BALL - Did you see them go into the building?MMr. SHELLEY - No; we didn't watch that long but they were at the first step like they were fixin' to go in.Mr. BALL - Were they moving at the time, walking or running?Mr. SHELLEY - Well, they were moving, yes.Mr. BALL - Were they running?Mr. SHELLEY - That, I couldn't swear to; there were so many people around." This contradicts the testimony of Billy Lovelady below: "Mr. BALL - By the time you left the steps had Mr. Truly entered the building? Mr. LOVELADY - As we left the steps I would say we were at least 15. maybe 25. steps away from the building. I looked back and I saw him and the policeman running into the building." Edited September 16, 2015 by Robert Prudhomme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Lloyd Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 (edited) I wouldn't be so sure that he's contradicting Lovelady; Lovelady may have seen the same as Shelley but just assumed that because it looked like they were about to enter the building, then they must have entered the building - but it ain't necessarily so... Edited September 16, 2015 by Ian Lloyd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linda Giovanna Zambanini Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 (edited) Hi Guys! I Haven't checked this thread for a couple of days - been busy. During that time one of the graphics I made was using cropped blowup of Willis annotating the crowd correctly along the N. Elm Sidewalk - from Millican (const. helmet man) down to Jean Newman. It doesn't take in Hicks, Reed etc... But it does take in the woman next to Millican's right, who the last time I checked here people were thinking may be a good candidate for Gloria Calvery (the running woman) since she has on a red skirt and white blouse. Well, I see you are not keen on her now...but I'm posting It anyway because, d*mn, I worked hard on it! And btw, I reused this cropped Willis photo someone else had posted on this thread or another one.... and it already had Betty Thornton circled in black. I couldn't fix that so it remains. I'm not trying to highlight her.If you are now looking for a candidate that looks more like the chubby Calvery seen in her Summer '63 wedding photos, then I do have a possible candidate for you, whom you can't see in this annotated photo (she's the "unknown woman in black" - but can clearly be seen from behind in Zapruder. She's the only "unknown" person in the line of spectators besides "Calvery" (in the red skirt). She does have Gloria Jean Little Calvery's body habitus.Now, if we go with that - someone entirely different - well, that opens a whole other can of worms!: Who, then, is the skinny "running woman"? Why would Shelley say he talked to Calvery at the island when running woman is not Calvery? And others said they saw Calvery run up behind Baker too didn't they? The only possible "rationale" I can think of for such lies - is something decidedly un-kosher. For example we know Shelley and Calvery (or her husband) were friends - he was their best man. So maybe he was planning on using her to pad his alibis? Maybe even unbeknownst to her - maybe he figured he could later that day take her aside and pressure her into saying something that worked for him like - "ya, I talked to him on the island x seconds/minutes after the shots". At anyrate...oy... that's a mindf*ck I am too tired to even think about right now! LOL! So here's my graphic. And btw, when I look really closely I can faintly see some glasses on the red skirt woman - they have an oval shape that could pass for cat-eye glasses. Her face also looks chubby and round to me - like Gloria Jean Little Calvery's face in the summer of '63. Edited September 17, 2015 by Linda Giovanna Zambanini Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linda Giovanna Zambanini Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 (edited) Ok, guys, here's a side by side comparison to highlight, IMO, why the "Calvery" candidate in the Red Skirt + White Blouse. seen in Willis 5, can still be a good candidate for the real Gloria Jean Little Calvery. What do you think? The face does it for me - not to mention, I can faintly see those cat eye glasses! Too bad we don't have video or photos of her beginning her sprint from this point... do we? Bell? etc?? I'll have to look later... Edited September 17, 2015 by Linda Giovanna Zambanini Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Largey Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 That could just be noise Linda, this isn't perfect but it's a reasonable good representation for now of what we see in Groden's picture book albeit in b&w. In the book and as you can see in what you posted above, she seems to have a tuft of red hair in front covered by a babushka. Perhaps someone has a good scan of it. A person to her right holding a potted plant? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Davidson Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 Ok, guys, here's a side by side comparison to highlight, IMO, why the "Calvery" candidate in the Red Skirt + White Blouse. seen in Willis 5, can still be a good candidate for the real Gloria Jean Little Calvery. What do you think? The face does it for me - not to mention, I can faintly see those cat eye glasses! Too bad we don't have video or photos of her beginning her sprint from this point... do we? Bell? etc?? I'll have to look later... Linda, I agree. Life Magazine Betzner photo, the glasses and bangs appear to match chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Prudhomme Posted September 19, 2015 Author Share Posted September 19, 2015 (edited) I wonder if Gloria Calvery was associated with Mary Woodward, or one of the group Woodward was standing with, as she seems to be standing closely with them (if that is her in the red skirt). From looking at the Altgens 6 photo, it is not that far from the red skirt woman to the little concrete island. Edited September 19, 2015 by Robert Prudhomme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Largey Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 There's a second woman in that Zapruder snap that's not been given a name, perhaps because she is barely visible and in Altgens she just happens to have a cardigan draped over one shoulder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Graves Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 (edited) Interesting, and possibly a real game changer. If everything you guys have uncovered is correct, and I have no reason to believe it isn't, the woman ID'ed on Elm St. as Gloria CalvEry (lol) may not be her after all. Does this woman look anything like Gloria J. Little? My sarcastic joke: Who ID'd "Calvary" with Hicks and Reed on Elm Street in the first place, anyway? Some French guy [Thierry Speth] who thinks the moon landings were faked! LOL --Tommy NOW GO TO POSTS # 125, 126, 127, ... , THIS THREAD, AND CONTINUE READING, BOB. -- T. Graves, 12/22/15 EDITED AND BUMPED FOR ROBERT PRUDHOMME --Tommy Edited December 22, 2015 by Thomas Graves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Please sign in to comment
You will be able to leave a comment after signing in
Sign In Now