Silvia Odio and Other Inconvenient Witnesses

[Paul Brancato]

Greg - I don't want to wait for the new info you are digging up. Apparently we are talking years, not weeks.

[Greg Parker]

Wagga Wagga, NSW

Okay. Tip. Double names are tricky. Some are always referred to by the full double. Others are almost universally known by just the single. Wagga is one of those.

Also - no one voluntarily lives in Wagga. That would be the same as someone claiming they moved to Canberra for the ambience and nightlife.

And --- it is a defense town. Just a few clicks away is Kapooka - the recruit training base.

But your stay there had nothing to do with the military?

[Paul Trejo]

Paul Trejo wrote: "Now, to be fair to Silvia Odio, the WC attorneys told her point blank before taking her testimony, that if she tended to suggest that OSWALD had any "accomplices," that the WC would reject her story out of hand. She was warned."

What? Are you suggesting the WC had an agenda? You mean that if a witness did not agree to only testify about what they wanted them to testify to that they might not even allow them to testify? Selective witnesses, who woulda thunk?

I'll go you one better, Kenneth. The Warren Commission was only loosely constructed as a court trial -- there was no trial in the usual sense -- there were no witnesses in the usual sense. The proof is that there was never any cross-examination.

Further, if a witness wanted to talk "off the record" he or she only needed to say so, and that was allowed. (As I recall, "off the record" conversations would tend to come up whenever testimony began to delve more deeply into Ex-General Edwin Walker.)

Anyway, Kenneth, you're probably being sarcastic today -- but just in case you're not, here's what Silvia Odio told Martin Phillips in January 1976 about her 22 July 1964 Warren Commission testimony. This is the account, as I recall, as told by Martin Philips:

She said that after Liebeler questioned her for the second time that day (first at 9 am; second at 6:30 pm) he asked her out to dinner...Odio said: "We went out with someone who was supposed to be Marina Oswald's lawyer...We went to the Sheraton to eat dinner...I wasn't sure if they wanted me to hear their conversation...But one thing he said, and this has always bothered me, he said to this other gentleman...'Well, you know if we do find out that this is a conspiracy you know that we have orders from Chief Justice Warren to cover this thing up.'"

This is what bothered Silvia Odio from the start -- her story about "Leopoldo" and "Angelo" wasn't being investigated properly -- but only to ensure that it would never see the light of day. If "Leopoldo" or "Angelo" just happened to assassinate Silvia Odio -- oh, well. At least the "Lone Nut" theory was safe!

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited June 9, 2015 by Paul Trejo

[Greg Parker]

Greg - I don't want to wait for the new info you are digging up. Apparently we are talking years, not weeks.

No, we are talking months for volume 2. Maybe another year or two for the third.

[Kenneth Drew]

Wagga Wagga, NSW

Okay. Tip. Double names are tricky. Some are always referred to by the full double. Others are almost universally known by just the single. Wagga is one of those.

Also - no one voluntarily lives in Wagga. That would be the same as someone claiming they moved to Canberra for the ambience and nightlife.

And --- it is a defense town. Just a few clicks away is Kapooka - the recruit training base.

But your stay there had nothing to do with the military?

I will agree that the city was called Wagga by the locals, but you asked where and I gave you the correct name of the city.

No.

Canberra was ok, nice place to visit.

Edited June 9, 2015 by Kenneth Drew

[Kenneth Drew]

Paul Trejo wrote: "Now, to be fair to Silvia Odio, the WC attorneys told her point blank before taking her testimony, that if she tended to suggest that OSWALD had any "accomplices," that the WC would reject her story out of hand. She was warned."

What? Are you suggesting the WC had an agenda? You mean that if a witness did not agree to only testify about what they wanted them to testify to that they might not even allow them to testify? Selective witnesses, who woulda thunk?

I'll go you one better, Kenneth. The Warren Commission was only loosely constructed as a court trial -- there was no trial in the usual sense -- there were no witnesses in the usual sense. The proof is that there was never any cross-examination.

Further, if a witness wanted to talk "off the record" he or she only needed to say so, and that was allowed. (As I recall, "off the record" conversations would tend to come up whenever testimony began to delve more deeply into Ex-General Edwin Walker.)

Anyway, Kenneth, you're probably being sarcastic today -- but just in case you're not, here's what Silvia Odio told Martin Phillips in January 1976 about her 22 July 1964 Warren Commission testimony. This is the account, as I recall, as told by Martin Philips:

She said that after Liebeler questioned her for the second time that day (first at 9 am; second at 6:30 pm) he asked her out to dinner...Odio said: "We went out with someone who was supposed to be Marina Oswald's lawyer...We went to the Sheraton to eat dinner...I wasn't sure if they wanted me to hear their conversation...But one thing he said, and this has always bothered me, he said to this other gentleman...'Well, you know if we do find out that this is a conspiracy you know that we have orders from Chief Justice Warren to cover this thing up.'"

This is what bothered Silvia Odio from the start -- her story about "Leopoldo" and "Angelo" wasn't being investigated properly -- but only to ensure that it would never see the light of day. If "Leopoldo" or "Angelo" just happened to assassinate Silvia Odio -- oh, well. At least the "Lone Nut" theory was safe!

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Thanks Paul, yes my statement was supposed to be sarcastic. The Warren Report was not a serious attempt at anything but cover up. No attempt was made to find the conspirators.

[Paul Trejo]

Thanks Paul, yes my statement was supposed to be sarcastic. The Warren Report was not a serious attempt at anything but cover up. No attempt was made to find the conspirators.

Then, Kenneth, have you give any thought to alternative explanations, rather than the ordinary CT explanation that the JFK Coverup-Team was working for the JFK Kill-Team?

As you may have garnered in past weeks on these threads, I propose that the JFK Kill-Team consistently proposed that Lee Harvey Oswald was a COMMUNIST, while the JFK Coverup-Team consistently proposed that Lee Harvey Oswald was a "LONE NUT."

In my view, the two groups were incompatible from the start.

The FBI and the Warren Commission indeed, as you said, evaded any attempt to identify the conspirators. And yet, that is paradoxically consistent with already knowing who the conspirators already were.

I maintain that the J. Edgar Hoover, Earl Warren, Allen Dulles and LBJ all knew to a man who the JFK Kill-Team conspirators were. Yet there are two ways to interpret that data: (1) the most common CT interpretation is that the US Government was part of the conspiracy; and (2) the least common CT interpretation was already given by Earl Warren and LBJ, namely, it was a National Security risk to expose the JFK Kill-Team.

I think cynicism can never accept interpretation #2 above. Yet I'm convinced that following interpretation #2 to its logical conclusion will eventually resolve the JFK murder.

As Sylvia Odio overheard from Wesley Liebeler -- if Earl Warren had learned any further data about a conspiracy, he was dedicated to covering it up. "Full disclosure" about the JFK murder would be made "not in your lifetime." It was about National Security.

Yet if we take this to heart, this statement itself offers a clue regarding the identity of the JFK Kill-Team conspirators.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited June 9, 2015 by Paul Trejo

[Kenneth Drew]

Then, Kenneth, have you give any thought to alternative explanations, rather than the ordinary CT explanation that the JFK Coverup-Team was working for the JFK Kill-Team?

As you may have garnered in past weeks on these threads, I propose that the JFK Kill-Team consistently proposed that Lee Harvey Oswald was a COMMUNIST, while the JFK Coverup-Team consistently proposed that Lee Harvey Oswald was a "LONE NUT."

In my view, the two groups were incompatible from the start.

The FBI and the Warren Commission indeed, as you said, evaded any attempt to identify the conspirators. And yet, that is paradoxically consistent with already knowing who the conspirators already were.

I maintain that the J. Edgar Hoover, Earl Warren, Allen Dulles and LBJ all knew to a man who the JFK Kill-Team conspirators were. Yet there are two ways to interpret that data: (1) the most common CT interpretation is that the US Government was part of the conspiracy; and (2) the least common CT interpretation was already given by Earl Warren and LBJ, namely, it was a National Security risk to expose the JFK Kill-Team.

I think cynicism can never accept interpretation #2 above. Yet I'm convinced that following interpretation #2 to its logical conclusion will eventually resolve the JFK murder.

As Sylvia Odio overheard from Wesley Liebeler -- if Earl Warren had learned any further data about a conspiracy, he was dedicated to covering it up. "Full disclosure" about the JFK murder would be made "not in your lifetime." It was about National Security.

Yet if we take this to heart, this statement itself offers a clue regarding the identity of the JFK Kill-Team conspirators.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Paul, where I'm leaning now, and have been for some time is: The CIA planned the assassination at the direction of 'some high government officials', The plan was to blame it on a Lone Nut if they could pull that off. The killing itself was set up so that if they were not able to sell the Lone Nut, that they had at least one alternative. So the kill teams were set up, likely one of Cuban exiles, one of Mafia, and one of Communists, and maybe one of Pro Castro. So if Lone nut didn't sell, then whoever 'got caught' was the back up. LHO was set up as the Lone Nut. The FBI was to handle the coverup, of course with heavy assistance from the US Military and CIA and perhaps others. LHO was likely informed that the FBI/SS were planning an "attempted assassination" for security reasons and that he was to leave the TSBD and go directly to the Texas Theatre to meet his contact there. From there he would likely be removed from the country, and disposed of. The simplest plan worked out for the conspirators.

[Paul Trejo]

Paul, where I'm leaning now, and have been for some time is: The CIA planned the assassination at the direction of 'some high government officials', The plan was to blame it on a Lone Nut if they could pull that off. The killing itself was set up so that if they were not able to sell the Lone Nut, that they had at least one alternative. So the kill teams were set up, likely one of Cuban exiles, one of Mafia, and one of Communists, and maybe one of Pro Castro. So if Lone nut didn't sell, then whoever 'got caught' was the back up. LHO was set up as the Lone Nut. The FBI was to handle the coverup, of course with heavy assistance from the US Military and CIA and perhaps others. LHO was likely informed that the FBI/SS were planning an "attempted assassination" for security reasons and that he was to leave the TSBD and go directly to the Texas Theatre to meet his contact there. From there he would likely be removed from the country, and disposed of. The simplest plan worked out for the conspirators.

Well, Kenneth, it seems to me that your position is the most common position today -- despite all the differences between CT groups.

Almost everybody (except me) agrees that the CIA planned the JFK murder, as led by 'some high government officials',

Almost everybody (except me) believes that the JFK cover-up was planned at the same time as the JFK murder.

Almost everybody (except me) believes that the "Lone Nut" idea was dreamed up months before the JFK murder.

While I have no objection to the notion that multiple Patsies were considered as viable -- such a generic theory completely misses the fact that Lee Harvey Oswald was set up for SIX MONTHS in New Orleans to be a COMMUNIST PATSY.

And that is a far, far cry from a "Lone Nut" Patsy.

.

While the facts make it crystal clear that the FBI handled the Cover-up, with heavy help from the CIA and DC, the facts also suggest to me that the Cover-up was conceived only *after* the JFK murder -- e.g. the formula was brewing by 3pm CST when Hoover told RFK that one man did it without accomplices, and then was solidified sometime that evening.

.

IMHO, Oswald was told that he was part of a plot to kill Fidel Castro. That should be clear from Garrison's investigation. Gerry Patrick Hemming (pal of Frank Sturgis and Loran Hall) admitted to A.J. Weberman that he telephoned Lee Harvey Oswald on 11/21/1963 and offered him double the price of his Manlicher-Carcano if he would bring it to the TSBD in the morning.

.

There was the JFK Kill-Team staring us in the face. Gerry Patrick Hemming was a member of this very Forum shortly before he died. Oswald knew something was up when JFK was murdered, but he figured it out too late.

.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

[Kenneth Drew]

Paul, where I'm leaning now, and have been for some time is: The CIA planned the assassination at the direction of 'some high government officials', The plan was to blame it on a Lone Nut if they could pull that off. The killing itself was set up so that if they were not able to sell the Lone Nut, that they had at least one alternative. So the kill teams were set up, likely one of Cuban exiles, one of Mafia, and one of Communists, and maybe one of Pro Castro. So if Lone nut didn't sell, then whoever 'got caught' was the back up. LHO was set up as the Lone Nut. The FBI was to handle the coverup, of course with heavy assistance from the US Military and CIA and perhaps others. LHO was likely informed that the FBI/SS were planning an "attempted assassination" for security reasons and that he was to leave the TSBD and go directly to the Texas Theatre to meet his contact there. From there he would likely be removed from the country, and disposed of. The simplest plan worked out for the conspirators.

Well, Kenneth, it seems to me that your position is the most common position today -- despite all the differences between CT groups.

Almost everybody (except me) agrees that the CIA planned the JFK murder, as led by 'some high government officials',

Almost everybody (except me) believes that the JFK cover-up was planned at the same time as the JFK murder.

Almost everybody (except me) believes that the "Lone Nut" idea was dreamed up months before the JFK murder.

While I have no objection to the notion that multiple Patsies were considered as viable -- such a generic theory completely misses the fact that Lee Harvey Oswald was set up for SIX MONTHS in New Orleans to be a COMMUNIST PATSY.

And that is a far, far cry from a "Lone Nut" Patsy.

.

While the facts make it crystal clear that the FBI handled the Cover-up, with heavy help from the CIA and DC, the facts also suggest to me that the Cover-up was conceived only *after* the JFK murder -- e.g. the formula was brewing by 3pm CST when Hoover told RFK that one man did it without accomplices, and then was solidified sometime that evening.

.

IMHO, Oswald was told that he was part of a plot to kill Fidel Castro. That should be clear from Garrison's investigation. Gerry Patrick Hemming (pal of Frank Sturgis and Loran Hall) admitted to A.J. Weberman that he telephoned Lee Harvey Oswald on 11/21/1963 and offered him double the price of his Manlicher-Carcano if he would bring it to the TSBD in the morning.

.

There was the JFK Kill-Team staring us in the face. Gerry Patrick Hemming was a member of this very Forum shortly before he died. Oswald knew something was up when JFK was murdered, but he figured it out too late.

.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Very good Paul. and I agree that Oswald was being set up as a Communist Patsy, but I think when the JFK job came up, and he was near the spot, he became an excellent fill in for the Patsy job. He certainly was likely told that the whole deal in Dallas that day was to get him to Cuba or some other likely thing. I think the recorded message of Nov 9 of Milteer in Miami makes a clear case for they type of assassination and the fact that a Patsy would be used. Had it been in Miami, I'm sure they had a different patsy set up, same for Chicago. I certainly believe that 'the cover up', that is to say, the one that was selected to be used, only was determined after the shooting. Had several shooters been 'revealed' that day, I'm sure a different coverup scenario would have been selected.

[Paul Trejo]

Very good Paul. and I agree that Oswald was being set up as a Communist Patsy, but I think when the JFK job came up, and he was near the spot, he became an excellent fill in for the Patsy job. He certainly was likely told that the whole deal in Dallas that day was to get him to Cuba or some other likely thing. I think the recorded message of Nov 9 of Milteer in Miami makes a clear case for they type of assassination and the fact that a Patsy would be used. Had it been in Miami, I'm sure they had a different patsy set up, same for Chicago. I certainly believe that 'the cover up', that is to say, the one that was selected to be used, only was determined after the shooting. Had several shooters been 'revealed' that day, I'm sure a different coverup scenario would have been selected.

Thanks, Kenneth, for that feedback. Now I'll share the rest of the story, which I've been preaching here since 2011, of which almost everybody but the newer folks here are already tired.

IMHO, Lee Harvey Oswald was set up as the COMMUNIST PATSY first and foremost by Ex-General Edwin Walker, who had a fellow Minuteman/JBS member in Guy Banister from New Orleans. Walker had learned from some government official (he never named) that Lee Harvey Oswald had been his shooter on 10 April 1963. (We know this from several of his personal papers now on file at UT Austin.)

Walker had just escaped a term in an insane asylum at the hands of RFK and JFK, and he was certain that RFK and JFK had sent Lee Harvey Oswald (a Communist defector) to assassinate him and finish their job.

This made sense to Walker, a member of the JBS, because the JBS preached that JFK was a COMMUNIST. So, naturally, believed Walker, RFK and JFK would send a little Communist out to kill Walker.

Walker found out about the Oswald angle of the April shooting on 14 April 1963 (Easter Sunday) and he put processes in motion right away. Within days, Guy Banister's team had called Oswald and offered him a chance for a CIA job in New Orleans. All he would have to do was stay undercover, and pretend to be the Director of the FPCC in New Orleans. Easy money. Then he would go undercover in Cuba to help a team there assassinate Fidel Castro. If he was successful, not only would he get that dream-job in the CIA that he always wanted, but he might even become US President one day.

Before the month of April was over, Lee Harvey Oswald was in New Orleans.

During the period from April 1963 to November 1963, Ex-General Edwin Walker moved within the circles of the extreme, radical right-wing in the South. Banister was only one of many extremists with whom Walker would consort. Almost all of them called for the assassination of JFK, and Walker was very willing to work with all of them.

After all -- he was grooming his Communist Patsy for just that very occasion. Would it occur in Chicago? Would it occur in Miami? Would it occur in DC? Or would it occur in Dallas? These were the pressing questions in Walker's mind between April and October 1963.

Once it was decided exactly where the JFK murder would take place, it was necessary to get control of Lee Harvey Oswald so that he would be stationed at or near the murder scene. This would take the coordination of several paramilitary groups -- but most such people would volunteer without pay for somebody as well-loved in rightist circles as Ex-General Edwin Walker.

Oswald's tail was already between his legs because of his failure in Mexico City, trying to get to Cuba using his Fake FPCC credentials from New Orleans. He was told to wait in Dallas for further instructions. This he did very loyally.

FBI Agent Don Adams thought that Joseph Milteer was a key clue to the JFK murder, and I agree. Milteer was close to exactly the same racist, right-wing radical groups that Edwin Walker moved freely within, throughout the South.

IMHO, if the site was Miami, they would have manipulated Oswald to be in Miami. Same with Chicago or DC. The Cover story was always the same, IMHO -- Oswald was a COMMUNIST and we have proof in newspapers, police reports, radio and even television. The illusion was almost perfect.

The ultimate goal of the JFK murder, by my reading, was to make a solid excuse to invade Cuba and murder Fidel Castro. That was the SOLE purpose. There was no other purpose. Revenge was a part of one man's motive (and maybe some others from the Bay of Pigs nightmare), but the Collective Purpose of the hundreds of volunteers who participated in the JFK murder was TO DESTROY COMMUNISM IN CUBA.

The evidence, IMHO, is that when the plot to blame the Communists failed, the conspirators ran away like scared rabbits.

What foiled their plot was that J. Edgar Hoover knew a lot about Lee Harvey Oswald. Hoover knew, for example, that Oswald wasn't a Communist. Hoover knew, for example, that Oswald had spent the summer in New Orleans working with Guy Banister, a former FBI Agent and radical rightist, in a Fake FPCC.

Hoover knew this from his own files on Lee Harvey Oswald, so that by 3PM CST on 11/22/1963, he was able to call RFK and tell him that Lee Harvey Oswald was NOT a Communist and NOT a leader of the FPCC.

That was the end of the JFK murder plot. The conspirators never recovered. They probably never talked to each other ever again. They faded into the woodwork like the sniveling cowards they truly were.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited June 11, 2015 by Paul Trejo

[Kenneth Drew]

Very good Paul. and I agree that Oswald was being set up as a Communist Patsy, but I think when the JFK job came up, and he was near the spot, he became an excellent fill in for the Patsy job. He certainly was likely told that the whole deal in Dallas that day was to get him to Cuba or some other likely thing. I think the recorded message of Nov 9 of Milteer in Miami makes a clear case for they type of assassination and the fact that a Patsy would be used. Had it been in Miami, I'm sure they had a different patsy set up, same for Chicago. I certainly believe that 'the cover up', that is to say, the one that was selected to be used, only was determined after the shooting. Had several shooters been 'revealed' that day, I'm sure a different coverup scenario would have been selected.

Thanks, Kenneth, for that feedback. Now I'll share the rest of the story, which I've been preaching here since 2011, of which almost everybody but the newer folks here are already tired.

IMHO, Lee Harvey Oswald was set up as the COMMUNIST PATSY first and foremost by Ex-General Edwin Walker, who had a fellow Minuteman/JBS member in Guy Banister from New Orleans. Walker had learned from some government official (he never named) that Lee Harvey Oswald had been his shooter on 10 April 1963. (We know this from several of his personal papers now on file at UT Austin.)

Walker had just escaped a term in an insane asylum at the hands of RFK and JFK, and he was certain that RFK and JFK had sent Lee Harvey Oswald (a Communist defector) to assassinate him and finish their job.

This made sense to Walker, a member of the JBS, because the JBS preached that JFK was a COMMUNIST. So,

naturally, RFK and JFK would send a little Communist out to kill Walker.

Walker found out about the Oswald angle of the April shooting on 14 April 1963 (Easter Sunday) and he put processes in motion right away. Within days, Guy Banister's team had called Oswald and offered him a chance for a CIA job in New Orleans. All he would have to do was stay undercover, and pretend to be the Director of the FPCC in New Orleans. Easy money. Then he would go undercover in Cuba to help a team there assassinate Fidel Castro. If he was successful, not only would he get that dream-job in the CIA that he always wanted, but he might even become US President one day.

Before the month of April was over, Lee Harvey Oswald was in New Orleans.

During the period from April 1963 to November 1963, Ex-General Edwin Walker moved within the circles of the extreme, radical right-wing in the South. Banister was only one of many extremists with whom Walker would consort. Almost all of them called for the assassination of JFK, and Walker was very willing to work with all of them.

After all -- he was grooming his Communist Patsy for just that very occasion. Would it occur in Chicago? Would it occur in Miami? Would it occur in DC? Or would it occur in Dallas? These were the pressing questions in Walker's mind between April and October 1963.

Once it was decided exactly where the JFK murder would take place, it was necessary to get control of Lee Harvey Oswald so that he would be stationed at or near the murder scene. This would take the coordination of several paramilitary groups -- but most such people would volunteer without pay for somebody as well-loved in rightist circles like Ex-General Edwin Walker.

Oswald's tail was already between his legs because of his failure in Mexico City, trying to get to Cuba using his Fake FPCC credentials from New Orleans. He was told to wait in Dallas for further instructions. This he did very loyally.

FBI Agent Don Adams thought that Joseph Milteer was a key clue to the JFK murder, and I agree. Milteer was close to exactly the same racist, right-wing radical groups that Edwin Walker moved freely within, throughout the South.

IMHO, if the site was Miami, they would have manipulated Oswald to be in Miami. Same with Chicago or DC. The Cover story was always the same, IMHO -- Oswald was a COMMUNIST and we have proof in newspapers, police reports, radio and even television. The illusion was almost perfect.

The ultimate goal of the JFK murder, by my reading, was to make a solid excuse to invade Cuba and murder Fidel Castro. That was the SOLE purpose. There was no other purpose. Revenge was a part of one man's motive (and maybe some others from the Bay of Pigs nightmare), but the Collective Purpose of the hundreds of volunteers who participated in the JFK murder was TO DESTROY COMMUNISM IN CUBA.

The evidence, IMHO, is that when the plot to blame the Communists failed, the conspirators ran away like scared rabbits.

What foiled their plot was that J. Edgar Hoover knew a lot about Lee Harvey Oswald. Hoover knew, for example, that Oswald wasn't a Communist. Hoover knew, for example, that Oswald had spent the summer in New Orleans working with Guy Banister, a former FBI Agent and radical rightist, in a Fake FPCC.

Hoover knew this from his own files on Lee Harvey Oswald, so that by 3PM CST on 11/22/1963, he was able to call RFK and tell him that Lee Harvey Oswald was NOT a Communist and NOT a leader of the FPCC.

That was the end of the JFK murder plot. The conspirators never recovered. They probably never talked to each other ever again. They faded into the woodwork like the sniveling cowards they truly were.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Thanks for that theory. There are waaaaay too many problems with the scenario to make it very likely. You probably could name all of them much better than I, but to go with that scenario, you have to exclude all others and the 'LBJ did it" theory makes much more sense. How many shooters/teams do you have and who did they mostly represent? Do you think the Corsicans were 'there'? Was the 'mafia' there. Were any shots fired from the snipers nest? Do you think Oswald 'really' went to Mexico City? If so what was the 'real' reason he went there? Why didn't the voice on the Mexico tapes match Oswald's voice? Did Oswald actually own a Carcano rifle? If so, where did he get it from? So many questions..

[Paul Trejo]

Thanks for that theory. There are waaaaay too many problems with the scenario to make it very likely. You probably could name all of them much better than I, but to go with that scenario, you have to exclude all others and the 'LBJ did it" theory makes much more sense. How many shooters/teams do you have and who did they mostly represent? Do you think the Corsicans were 'there'? Was the 'mafia' there. Were any shots fired from the snipers nest? Do you think Oswald 'really' went to Mexico City? If so what was the 'real' reason he went there? Why didn't the voice on the Mexico tapes match Oswald's voice? Did Oswald actually own a Carcano rifle? If so, where did he get it from? So many questions..

Well, Kenneth, as for the LBJ-did-it theory of the JFK murder, I still like Craig Zirbel's The Texas Connection (1992), which IMHO is far and away still the best summary of arguments against LBJ. But it's all suspicion and circumstantial.

Phil Nelson and Barr McClellan merely add rumors and a sense of melodrama to the claims, but no important facts or factors beyond Zirbel, IMHO. As I recall, Nelson concluded that the very ignorance of LBJ about the details of the JFK murder was *proof* that LBJ was the mastermind! Such sophistry turned me off.

Still, Kenneth, I appreciate your many questions to me. Let's see if I can respond well:

(1) How many shooters/teams? I think at least three principal teams and perhaps three backup teams, each with their own walkie-talkie operator. I think the umbrella man was there to coordinate the effort.

(2) Who did they mostly represent? Mostly Far Right Americans in 1963, which would include (2.1.) Friends of Walker; (2.2) Minutemen, e.g. armed JBS guys; (2.3) Bay of Pigs survivors; (2.4) rogues from the CIA who were symbiotic with Bay of Pigs survivors; and (2.5) local opponents of the Civil Rights movement which JFK was starting to support.

That is, in my theory, there were NO conspirators inside the US government. (Exception: there were a few rogues and allies in the CIA, DPD and MI, but they were subordinate to the Civilian paramilitary leadership of the JFK murder).

(3) Do you think the Corsicans were 'there'? No. They would not be needed. There were plenty of home-grown JFK haters who would be proud to be the shooters, and who would do it on a volunteer basis, for free, if necessary. I think Ricky White speaks the truth about his dad's personal involvement. I also think that J.D. Tippit was possibly a shooter (as others have also suggested).

(4) Do you think the 'mafia' was there?. No. The Mafia did nothing more than send MONEY. They may have sent a million dollars to this effort, likely through Santos Trafficante, Carlos Marcello, Johnny Roselli and Sam Giancana. But no shooters. IMHO, the Dallas Minutemen wouldn't allow "foreigners" to take all the glory. This was a true subculture of hating JFK. Harry Dean has some first person anecdotes about some of these players that I take very seriously.

(5) Were any shots fired from the snipers nest? Yes, I think the shot that missed may have been fired from there. Also, I think the shot that was six inches lower than JFK's neck might have been fired from there.

(6) Do you think Oswald 'really' went to Mexico City? Absolutely. I'm convinced he was there. I believe that Loran Hall and Larry Howard drove Oswald to Mexico from New Orleans, and in fact Mexican Immigration records say Oswald entered and exited MC by automobile. (On the way to Mexico City, they visited Silvia Odio in Dallas and frightened her on Wednesday 25 September 1963.)

(7) If so what was the 'real' reason he went there? Oswald went to Mexico City as instructed by Guy Banister and David Ferrie. He had spent six months in New Orleans (April to September) in 1963, faking a Fake Directorship in a Fake FPCC in New Orleans. He created a Fake Resume which he took to Mexico City (which is visible today in the Lopez Report).

Oswald's goal in MC was to pretend to be a bona fide FPCC Director, because FPCC Directors were given the red-carpet treatment by the Cuban Embassy in Mexico City, and allowed into enter Cuba the same day they appeared in Mexico City. That's what Oswald was told. Once safely in Cuba, Oswald had instructions to meet a local Kill-team and help them assassinate Fidel Castro -- perhaps in an open car motorcade.

The reason Oswald was turned away was because the Cuban Embassy had a full list of genuine FPCC Directors, and Oswald's name wasn't on that list. Actually, Banister and Ferrie expected Oswald to strike out -- and then receive further instructions to go to Dallas and wait for further instructions, because he was such a failure. It was all planned to make Oswald look like a COMMUNIST. (Some rogue in the CIA was clearly working with Guy Banister in this sheep-dip -- possibly David Morales -- which explains the MC impersonation.)

(8) Why didn't the voice on the Mexico tapes match Oswald's voice? IMHO, Bill Simpich did a brilliant job of explaining this in his free eBook, "State Secret: Wiretapping in Mexico City" (2014). Because some rogue CIA people Impersonated Oswald in a telephone call from the Cuban Consulate to the USSR Embassy, invoking the name of KGB Agent Valerie Kostikov, and the CIA high-command had no idea WHO had done this Impersonation, the CIA high-command started a Mole Hunt. I call it the Simpich Mole Hunt.

Known only to the CIA high-command and nobody else, they deliberately scrambled Oswald's CIA 201 File, changing the photograph, his middle name, and several other items. They also made every photograph of Oswald Top Secret, and every audio recording of Oswald's voice was also Top Secret. This was normal SOP for a CIA Mole-Hunt. When the FBI demanded their photo of Oswald, some lower-level CIA clerk sent the FBI that famous bogus photo, not knowing about the Simpich Mole-Hunt.

(9) Did Oswald actually own a Carcano rifle? Well, Oswald owned SOME rifle, because Marina (whose sworn testimony I take as absolutely honest) said that he had a rifle. Whether Oswald tried to shoot Walker with THAT rifle or with his partner's rifle (for he had at least one partner with him on 10 April 1963) we cannot tell from the bullet fragments obtained from Walker's walls.

Besides that, I believe Gerry Patrick Hemming when he told A.J. Weberman that he phoned Oswald on 11/21/1963 and offered him double the price of his Carcano rifle if Oswald would bring it to the TSBD the next morning. Hemming was close to Loran Hall and Ex-General Edwin Walker, among others in the plot.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited June 11, 2015 by Paul Trejo

[Kenneth Drew]

Thanks for that theory. There are waaaaay too many problems with the scenario to make it very likely. You probably could name all of them much better than I, but to go with that scenario, you have to exclude all others and the 'LBJ did it" theory makes much more sense. How many shooters/teams do you have and who did they mostly represent? Do you think the Corsicans were 'there'? Was the 'mafia' there. Were any shots fired from the snipers nest? Do you think Oswald 'really' went to Mexico City? If so what was the 'real' reason he went there? Why didn't the voice on the Mexico tapes match Oswald's voice? Did Oswald actually own a Carcano rifle? If so, where did he get it from? So many questions..

Well, Kenneth, as for the LBJ-did-it theory of the JFK murder, I still like Craig Zirbel's The Texas Connection (1992), which IMHO is far and away still the best summary of arguments against LBJ. But it's all suspicion and circumstantial.

Phil Nelson and Barr McClellan merely add rumors and a sense of melodrama to the claims, but no important facts or factors beyond Zirbel, IMHO. As I recall, Nelson concluded that the very ignorance of LBJ about the details of the JFK murder was *proof* that LBJ was the mastermind! Such sophistry turned me off.

Still, Kenneth, I appreciate your many questions to me. Let's see if I can respond well:

(1) How many shooters/teams? I think at least three principal teams and perhaps three backup teams, each with their own walkie-talkie operator. I think the umbrella man was there to coordinate the effort.

(2) Who did they mostly represent? Mostly Far Right Americans in 1963, which would include (2.1.) Friends of Walker; (2.2) Minutemen, e.g. armed JBS guys; (2.3) Bay of Pigs survivors; (2.4) rogues from the CIA who were symbiotic with Bay of Pigs survivors; and (2.5) local opponents of the Civil Rights movement which JFK was starting to support.

That is, in my theory, there were NO conspirators inside the US government. (Exception: there were a few rogues and allies in the CIA, DPD and MI, but they were subordinate to the Civilian paramilitary leadership of the JFK murder).

(3) Do you think the Corsicans were 'there'? No. They would not be needed. There were plenty of home-grown JFK haters who would be proud to be the shooters, and who would do it on a volunteer basis, for free, if necessary. I think Ricky White speaks the truth about his dad's personal involvement. I also think that J.D. Tippit was possibly a shooter (as others have also suggested).

(4) Do you think the 'mafia' was there?. No. The Mafia did nothing more than send MONEY. They may have sent a million dollars to this effort, likely through Santos Trafficante, Carlos Marcello, Johnny Roselli and Sam Giancana. But no shooters. IMHO, the Dallas Minutemen wouldn't allow "foreigners" to take all the glory. This was a true subculture of hating JFK. Harry Dean has some first person anecdotes about some of these players that I take very seriously.

(5) Were any shots fired from the snipers nest? Yes, I think the shot that missed may have been fired from there. Also, I think the shot that was six inches lower than JFK's neck might have been fired from there.

(6) Do you think Oswald 'really' went to Mexico City? Absolutely. I'm convinced he was there. I believe that Loran Hall and Larry Howard drove Oswald to Mexico from New Orleans, and in fact Mexican Immigration records say Oswald entered and exited MC by automobile. (On the way to Mexico City, they visited Silvia Odio in Dallas and frightened her on Wednesday 25 September 1963.)

(7) If so what was the 'real' reason he went there? Oswald went to Mexico City as instructed by Guy Banister and David Ferrie. He had spent six months in New Orleans (April to September) in 1963, faking a Fake Directorship in a Fake FPCC in New Orleans. He created a Fake Resume which he took to Mexico City (which is visible today in the Lopez Report).

Oswald's goal in MC was to pretend to be a bona fide FPCC Director, because FPCC Directors were given the red-carpet treatment by the Cuban Embassy in Mexico City, and allowed into enter Cuba the same day they appeared in Mexico City. That's what Oswald was told. Once safely in Cuba, Oswald had instructions to meet a local Kill-team and help them assassinate Fidel Castro -- perhaps in an open car motorcade.

The reason Oswald was turned away was because the Cuban Embassy had a full list of genuine FPCC Directors, and Oswald's name wasn't on that list. Actually, Banister and Ferrie expected Oswald to strike out -- and then receive further instructions to go to Dallas and wait for further instructions, because he was such a failure. It was all planned to make Oswald look like a COMMUNIST. (Some rogue in the CIA was clearly working with Guy Banister in this sheep-dip -- possibly David Morales -- which explains the MC impersonation.)

(8) Why didn't the voice on the Mexico tapes match Oswald's voice? IMHO, Bill Simpich did a brilliant job of explaining this in his free eBook, "State Secret: Wiretapping in Mexico City" (2014). Because some rogue CIA people Impersonated Oswald in a telephone call from the Cuban Consulate to the USSR Embassy, invoking the name of KGB Agent Valerie Kostikov, and the CIA high-command had no idea WHO had done this Impersonation, the CIA high-command started a Mole Hunt. I call it the Simpich Mole Hunt.

Known only to the CIA high-command and nobody else, they deliberately scrambled Oswald's CIA 201 File, changing the photograph, his middle name, and several other items. They also made every photograph of Oswald Top Secret, and every audio recording of Oswald's voice was also Top Secret. This was normal SOP for a CIA Mole-Hunt. When the FBI demanded their photo of Oswald, some lower-level CIA clerk sent the FBI that famous bogus photo, not knowing about the Simpich Mole-Hunt.

(9) Did Oswald actually own a Carcano rifle? Well, Oswald owned SOME rifle, because Marina (whose sworn testimony I take as absolutely honest) said that he had a rifle. Whether Oswald tried to shoot Walker with THAT rifle or with his partner's rifle (for he had at least one partner with him on 10 April 1963) we cannot tell from the bullet fragments obtained from Walker's walls.

Besides that, I believe Gerry Patrick Hemming when he told A.J. Weberman that he phoned Oswald on 11/21/1963 and offered him double the price of his Carcano rifle if Oswald would bring it to the TSBD the next morning. Hemming was close to Loran Hall and Ex-General Edwin Walker, among others in the plot.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Thanks Paul. While I actually don't agree with every interpretation you have, I wouldn't argue against any of them. For example, I don't believe there was a shot fired from the snipers nest (6th floor, maybe) In either case, it certainly wasn't LHO. I do think there is way too much evidence of the Corsicans being there, maybe only as back up or one of the teams. Even tho I believe LBJ was aware, I'm quite sure he didn't plan it or order it, but he was absolutely essential in the cover up of it. I don't have a strong opinion about Mexico City, but have always thought he wasn't there, was only a part of the 'set up of the patsy', so I've never looked into it very much. Do you believe any of the story of his love affair in New Orleans? Tippet certainly could have been a shooter, even Badge Man, but my current thinking is that the kill shot, the one from the front that blew his brains out came from the manhole. One shooter there. one somewhere ahead of limo toward left side where throat (windshield hole) shot came from. Behind picket fence, 6th floor SW corner, DalTex bldg, County Record bldg roof, let's see, that's about 6 firing positions. (Maybe two separate locations in DalTex.)

I'm not sure who shot Tippet, but it certainly wasn't LHO, he went into the Texas Theatre about the time Tippet was shot.

I appreciate your opinions. Seems as if you have good reasons for your thoughts.

[Paul Trejo]

Thanks Paul. While I actually don't agree with every interpretation you have, I wouldn't argue against any of them. For example, I don't believe there was a shot fired from the snipers nest (6th floor, maybe) In either case, it certainly wasn't LHO. I do think there is way too much evidence of the Corsicans being there, maybe only as back up or one of the teams.

Even tho I believe LBJ was aware, I'm quite sure he didn't plan it or order it, but he was absolutely essential in the cover up of it.

I don't have a strong opinion about Mexico City, but have always thought he wasn't there, was only a part of the 'set up of the patsy', so I've never looked into it very much.

Do you believe any of the story of his love affair in New Orleans?

Tippit certainly could have been a shooter, even Badge Man, but my current thinking is that the kill shot, the one from the front that blew his brains out came from the manhole. One shooter there. One somewhere ahead of limo toward left side where throat (windshield hole) shot came from.

Behind picket fence, 6th floor SW corner, DalTex bldg, County Record bldg roof, let's see, that's about 6 firing positions. (Maybe two separate locations in DalTex.) I'm not sure who shot Tippit, but it certainly wasn't LHO, he went into the Texas Theatre about the time Tippet was shot.

I appreciate your opinions. Seems as if you have good reasons for your thoughts.

Interesting, Kenneth. I also believe that Oswald was taken by surprise by the JFK murder. He was still guilty by association, since he knew the plotters and refused to turn them in to the police. Yet Oswald didn't fire a single shot at anybody that day, IMHO.

It would not surprise me that Corsicans were part of a backup or advisory team -- if only because the perpetrators wanted to be 100% certain that JFK could never escape their trap. Yet the local "boys" would insist on the key roles, IMHO.

I agree with you that LBJ didn't plan or order the JFK murder -- however we have fairly good evidence from his long-time mistress that he wasn't ignorant that Texas rightists wanted JFK dead quick. He might even have heard blatant rumors of the plot the night before -- but he could regard them as rumors.

(This reminds me of Harry Dean, who says that JBS and Minutemen folks in Southern California would speak continually, every single day, about a new way to kill JFK. It was almost boring to hear a new plot in those days. He became numb to it, and just regarded it as people blowing off steam. I have no doubt at all that LBJ, like *most American adults* in 1963, heard rumors about killing JFK. Among the right-wing JFK was universally hated to death.)

The problem with the set-up of the Patsy is that this particular Patsy was so deserving. Oswald's attempt to kill General Walker (at the urging of George De Mohrenschildt and Volkmar Schmidt) is routinely denied by most CTers, because they presume it was merely part of the "set-up of the patsy." That's too bad, because Oswald knew the plotters and worked with them for six solid months in 1963. Oswald wasn't ignorant of the JFK plotters -- it's just that he was their ignorant Patsy.

As for Oswald and Judyth Vary Baker, the evidence is tiny, but real, IMHO. I do believe that Oswald met this young girl, barely out of high school, and probably had a casual fling with her with no intention ever of leaving Marina. IMHO, Oswald knew Judyth for a few weeks at most -- which she today exploits into a Romance, a love affair that seemed to last for "ages", and then she adds her JFK research to her account. I'm unimpressed. Nothing important or new came from her story -- she's clearly building on Jim Garrison's research and speculations.

I also believe in the "shooter from the manhole" theory. It seems to me that the kill-shot probably came from that close, because of the angle but also because of the precision. Of course the shooter could then walk away from inside the drainage system, making a clean getaway.

As for the positions of the other shooters, your theory is better than most -- because you are accounting for six or seven shots (which is what I count) which would require a minimum of three teams, coordinated by a visual timekeeper (the umbrella man).

As for the shooting of Tippit, I'm impressed by the story of Mike Robinson, a 12-year old who claimed to have heard Roscoe White confess to killing Tippit. I agree with you that Oswald shot nobody on 11/22/1963 -- and that the ballistics evidence in the Tippit slaying was actually inconclusive.

I will suspend judgment until I see hard evidence -- and I see no evidence strong enough (yet) to convince me that the US government was part of the JFK Kill-Team.

Now, IMHO, the US Government was the *leader* of the JFK Coverup-Team. But that was a reaction, a response to the JFK murder which took them by surprise. Once Hoover figured out that Oswald was no Red, and no FPCC officer, and that Oswald had been working for Guy Banister throughout 1963, Hoover knew exactly who the perpetrators were.

IMHO, Hoover told LBJ, Earl Warren, Allen Dulles and very few others. They all agreed that the TRUTH about the JFK murder would start immediate riots in the streets of the USA. They all agreed that it was a necessity of National Security that the TRUTH about the JFK murder must remain Top Secret, at least until the Cold War was over.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited June 11, 2015 by Paul Trejo