Walker Shooting

[Paul Trejo]

...Why does everyone seem reluctant to pursue the comparison of the Walker letter with letters Oswald wrote (in Russian) while he was in Russia?

I see no reluctance here at all, Robert. If you have a systematic comparison, I'm sure most of us would be delighted to see it. Care to share?

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

[Robert Prudhomme]

No, I have never even seen the letters Oswald wrote in Russia, and I don't speak Russian. Considering that most people who have read Oswald's "while in Russia" letters believe them to be written by a person far more fluent in Russian than the author of the Walker letter, I would dearly love to see a frank and open discussion of the matter.

Have you read the "while in Russia" Oswald letters, Paul?

[Paul Trejo]

No, I have never even seen the letters Oswald wrote in Russia, and I don't speak Russian. Considering that most people who have read Oswald's "while in Russia" letters believe them to be written by a person far more fluent in Russian than the author of the Walker letter, I would dearly love to see a frank and open discussion of the matter.

Have you read the "while in Russia" Oswald letters, Paul?

Robert, I don't read Russian either, but I'm very interested in a scholarly comparison of OSWALD's Russian writing in the USSR with his Russian writing in the USA.

I know some Greek, from theology classes, and I understand that the Russian alphabet is patterned after the Greek alphabet (instead of the Latin alphabet), so perhaps I could struggle with some terms and words if I had some guidance.

But knowing the language is crucial only for translation -- and once a good translation is in hand, then a comparison of the linguistic elements becomes possible for English-readers. The linguistic principles would be the same:

* Did the writer typically write in long sentences or short sentences?

* Did the writer use a popular vocabulary or a scholarly vocabulary?

* Are there favorite phrases the writer uses?

* Is the writer's mood never light-hearted?

* Is the writer's mood never serious?

* What words does the writer typically misspell?

* What keywords, phrases or topics were most common with this writer?

* What keywords, phrases or topic would this writer always shun?

These are just a few of the guidelines a linguistic analysis would use to compare two writings to opine on authenticity.

I would like to see this:

1. The full stock of Lee Oswald's writings in the Russian language while in Russia.

2. An English translation of all these writings, if available.

3. A scholastically verified English translation of the letter Oswald allegedly wrote before the Walker shooting.

Of course, much will depend on the quality of the translations. If somebody merely paraphrases the text, we cannot even begin a linguistic comparison. Of if the translator varies the terms for any reason, we cannot even begin the linguistic analysis -- the same words must be translated exactly the same way every single time, without any exception.

In addition to a linguistic analysis, a handwriting analysis would also be extremely interesting.

Who has Oswald's letters in Russian, Robert? Do you know where I might find them?

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited April 23, 2015 by Paul Trejo

[Robert Prudhomme]

That's a good question, Paul. Before this last month, this is a part of the assassination I had never really looked at before. As you know, I tend to look more at the ballistics side of the case, as I feel more at home in this arena.

Greg Parker seems to have some knowledge in this matter, and perhaps we should be asking him if he can produce copies of Oswald's writings (in Russian) while he was in Russia.

[Greg Parker]

That's a good question, Paul. Before this last month, this is a part of the assassination I had never really looked at before. As you know, I tend to look more at the ballistics side of the case, as I feel more at home in this arena.

Greg Parker seems to have some knowledge in this matter, and perhaps we should be asking him if he can produce copies of Oswald's writings (in Russian) while he was in Russia.

http://reopenkennedycase.forumotion.net/t50-lho-and-russian-things

[Paul Trejo]

That's a good question, Paul. Before this last month, this is a part of the assassination I had never really looked at before. As you know, I tend to look more at the ballistics side of the case, as I feel more at home in this arena.

Greg Parker seems to have some knowledge in this matter, and perhaps we should be asking him if he can produce copies of Oswald's writings (in Russian) while he was in Russia.

http://reopenkennedycase.forumotion.net/t50-lho-and-russian-things

Good thread, Greg. You found a grammatical expert in Russian language, code named 9K116, to give an opinion of authorship based on the quantity of grammatical mistakes.

That is certainly a valuable datum, and should be widely perused.

Yet as 9K116 told you, a deeper linguistic analysis should also be done. I agree.

Yet in order for English speakers to perform a linguistic analysis to compare two documents for authorship, we must first have good, solid English translations in hand.

It would have been too much to ask, I believe, that your grammarian would also provide us with translations. Certainly 9K116 gave us a valuable transliteration in the Walker note, but as for the Minsk writings, we did not get any translation -- though we did get a useful error accounting. (The same with Ruth Paine's efforts).

Furthermore, what 9K116 provided was more than I'd ever read on that topic.

Either I'm wrong, or after a half-century, nobody has provided an easily accessible English translation of the Russian writings of Lee Harvey Oswald.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited April 24, 2015 by Paul Trejo

[Robert Prudhomme]

That's a good question, Paul. Before this last month, this is a part of the assassination I had never really looked at before. As you know, I tend to look more at the ballistics side of the case, as I feel more at home in this arena.

Greg Parker seems to have some knowledge in this matter, and perhaps we should be asking him if he can produce copies of Oswald's writings (in Russian) while he was in Russia.

http://reopenkennedycase.forumotion.net/t50-lho-and-russian-things

Good thread, Greg. You found a grammatical expert in Russian language, code named 9K116, to give an opinion of authorship based on the quantity of grammatical mistakes.

That is certainly a valuable datum, and should be widely perused.

Yet as 9K116 told you, a deeper linguistic analysis should also be done. I agree.

Yet in order for English speakers to perform a linguistic analysis to compare two documents for authorship, we must first have good, solid English translations in hand.

It would have been too much to ask, I believe, that your grammarian would also provide us with translations. Certainly 9K116 gave us a valuable transliteration in the Walker note, but as for the Minsk writings, we did not get any translation -- though we did get a useful error accounting. (The same with Ruth Paine's efforts).

Furthermore, what 9K116 provided was more than I'd ever read on that topic.

Either I'm wrong, or after a half-century, nobody has provided an easily accessible English translation of the Russian writings of Lee Harvey Oswald.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Hi Paul

This is one of the things I like about Greg, and something I try to practice in my own research. Instead of rehashing the same old fifty year old arguments, Greg is exploring new unexplored areas, and coming up with some amazing things, I might add.

Granted, he may not always be right but, I would admire him more for being wrong and being outside the box, than I would admire him for being right about something that everyone has been over a gazillion times.

[Paul Brancato]

Pardon me for this question - is the so-called Walker note dated?

[Greg Parker]

Pardon me for this question - is the so-called Walker note dated?

Correct.

[Robert Prudhomme]

The one inescapable piece of evidence in the Walker shooting that points away from LHO shooting at Walker with a 6.5mm Carcano rifle is the police report that states a steel jacketed bullet was found at the scene.

No amount of disinformation from the Dark Side can completely remove this rather troublesome little item of evidence.

[Paul Trejo]

The one inescapable piece of evidence in the Walker shooting that points away from LHO shooting at Walker with a 6.5mm Carcano rifle is the police report that states a steel jacketed bullet was found at the scene.

No amount of disinformation from the Dark Side can completely remove this rather troublesome little item of evidence.

Nevertheless, Robert, nobody on this side insisted that OSWALD used his own rifle when he shot at Edwin Walker on 10 April 1963.

Furthermore, in complete contradiction to the Warren Commission, I have consistently affirmed that Lee Harvey OSWALD was involved with accomplices in all of this political actions.

I maintain, for example, that: (1) OSWALD was with at least one other person in the Walker shooting; (2) they used at least one car for transportation; (3) OSWALD likely used somebody else's rifle; (4) OSWALD never buried his rifle; and (5) OSWALD admitted to Marina that he shot at Walker, but he lied to her about all the details.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited April 27, 2015 by Paul Trejo

[Robert Prudhomme]

This is assuming, of course, Paul, that LHO actually owned a rifle in the first place.

Why do you think the evidence of a steel jacketed bullet would be swapped out for a copper alloy jacketed bullet?

[Paul Trejo]

This is assuming, of course, Paul, that LHO actually owned a rifle in the first place.

Why do you think the evidence of a steel jacketed bullet would be swapped out for a copper alloy jacketed bullet?

Well, Robert, I'm not following your sequence of events here.

First of all, I'm not even claiming that OSWALD took his rifle to the Walker crime scene. It may have been in the trunk of the getaway car all along. Or maybe not. So, why even bring up the Manlicher-Carcano? It's irrelevant at this point.

Secondly, you seem to presume that there was a "swap" of bullets. I've seen no such evidence. Rather the evidence I've seen suggests this:

(1) Bullet fragments recovered from Walker's home were too mutilated for recognition.

(2) Walker's objection that the bullet was "swapped" was a bogus complaint against HSCA lead, Robert Blakey, who simply, for purposes of illustration, held up a pristine bullet for the Media cameras in 1978 when speaking about the Walker bullet. Walker exploded and wrote to Blakey, to Congressmen, to the Attorney General, demanding that "his" bullet never be "swapped" for any other bullet. Big deal.

What evidence are you referring to, Robert?

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited April 27, 2015 by Paul Trejo

[Robert Prudhomme]

"Nevertheless, Robert, nobody on this side insisted that OSWALD used his own rifle when he shot at Edwin Walker on 10 April 1963."

On reflection, I find this an odd thing for you to state, Paul. What precisely do you mean by "this side"? If the particular side you are referring to includes the Warren Commission, they most certainly did claim that Oswald shot at Walker with a 6.5mm Carcano rifle, and the bullet they present in evidence is most certainly jacketed in a copper coloured alloy. The whole basis of the WC's case is that the bullet recovered from Edwin Walker's home was a bullet made by the Western Cartridge Co. and all the bullets made by this company to shoot in the 6.5mm Carcano were jacketed in a copper coloured alloy known as "gilder's metal".

"(1) Bullet fragments recovered from Walker's home were too mutilated for recognition."

If you are referring to CE 573, this statement is not true.

The bullet presented by the FBI as the "Walker bullet" or CE 573 is still quite recognizeable as a bullet, and there is no doubt it is jacketed in a copper coloured copper alloy.

"(2) Walker's objection that the bullet was "swapped" was a bogus complaint against HSCA lead, Robert Blakey, who simply, for purposes of illustration, held up a pristine bullet for the Media cameras in 1978 when speaking about the Walker bullet. Walker exploded and wrote to Blakey, to Congressmen, to the Attorney General, demanding that "his" bullet never be "swapped" for any other bullet. Big deal.

What evidence are you referring to, Robert?"

The investigating officers clearly state the bullet they saw was steel jacketed. As the bullet Walker handled, following the shooting, was jacketed in steel and, according to Walker, far more mutilated than CE 573, it is understandable that Walker would believe a swap had taken place.

Edited April 27, 2015 by Robert Prudhomme

[Larry Hancock]

Well folks, this is what I call research and what the Ed forum could be all about...well done Robert...