Where was Roy Truly Right after the last Shot was Fired?

[Linda Giovanna Zambanini]

Thanks, Tommy! And you're welcome! Bit by bit we are putting it together - teamwork!

As for the "Truly" in the left hand Wiegman trio and his white handkerchief possibly being a hand from his crossed arms, i'm pretty certain you are correct - it's a handkerchief. I was just looking for a clearer version and found on on ROKC (unfortunately, i think EDF is blocking me from posting it here - it says I'm not permitted to post this image extension here - so i had to remove it). Sure looks like a rectangular handkerchief to me. But i put it in my photo editor and played with the contrast, gamma, shadows, highlights etc.. it looked rather rectangular to begin with but with adjusting these variables the crisp edges of a rectangle came out even better. So i really think it's a handkerchief and not a hand.

Just now, as i was continuing to search for the clearest Wiegman frame that included the left hand trio....i came across this post (#868) by Bjørn Gjerde from 24 September 2013 in the Prayer Man thread. In it he also posited that Campbell could be the same big, lumbering guy in Darnell that I just suggested, and he goes on to post 2 graphics - one being from Darnell with the big guy labeled as Campbell - nice, huh?!:



So, by rights, Bjørn should be given credit as the first one to spot him. However, funny thing is, a page later, in post #875, Sean Murphy discounts the possibility and says Campbell is a guy way in back of the left-hand Wiegman trio, and then Bjørn himself agrees with Sean.

**

But this is even better! On that same page Bjørn posted this awesomely clear version of Wiegman with "Truly" and the trio on the left. Even with simply blowing it up a little one can clearly see this "Truly" is NOT Truly! A couple of posts below that, Robin Unger posted this double photo of it and states it's a "Jack White Wiegman slide Crop". This man has a chubby face and cheeks, a rather pug nose and sunglasses! I snipped him out and tweaked him even more in my photo editor and it's even more apparent he's NOT Truly! Here's the photo Robin posted (click to enlarge):

So, Tommy, I think this settles it for good! You were correct, the right-hand Wiegman trio of Truly, Campbell and Reid are the real trio!

**

Addendum: I was just thinking, sure would be great to have a Jack White slide crop of the right-hand Wiegman trio now! Wonder if Robin Unger would have one?

Edited July 31, 2015 by Linda Giovanna Zambanini

[Linda Giovanna Zambanini]

Tommy said:

"Now to play a little Devil's Advocate against myself: I don't understand why "my" Reid is not wearing a coat and a head scarf in Wiegman. Somewhere in her testimony she mentions getting them from her office before going downstairs to watch the motorcade, so why isn't she wearing them?"

Tommy said:

"Thanks for reminding me that in Campbell's first statement, (to a newspaper on 11/23), he said that (instead of running down to the Grassy Knoll) he / "we" immediately went inside the TSBD, and found Oswald in a first floor storage room. I'm thinking that if the big guy was Campbell, then his actions in Wiegman suggest that he was telling the truth in his statement to the newspaper. It is interesting that the big guy is one of only two or three men who are walking towards the steps in Darnell. Another one, of course, is the Truly figure who starts walking towards them after Baker has run past him.

"Whoever the big guy is, I think that he and Truly are communicating from a short distance in Darnell / Couch, which could explain why he walks towards Truly and then spins and starts walking towards the TSBD, almost as though Truly told him to get inside."

I totally agree - we see the big guy going toward the steps (and i agree it seems he and Truly were communicating just before the pivot), so he was on his way in and would have gotten there right after Truly or possibly even before! He, like Truly, would have encountered Prayer Man on the landing or in the lobby/1st flr storage closet area. Additionally, Reid is near the steps too - we can't see her pivot and go toward the steps and into the bldg because the camera pans away, but she stated she went in shortly after the shots.

So, I'm guessing when Campbell said in his initial 11/23 NY Herald Tribune quote that "we" encountered LHO in the 1st floor storage closet - "we" included Baker, Truly and Reid. Reid, like Truly, could have been in on it from the get-go with Truly, but i'm guessing not - rather i'm guessing she was coerced by her boss, Truly, to play along by inventing or co-inventing the Oswald with the Coke story. She had a lot to cover up if she saw Oswald in the entry - what better way to take the pressure off herself than by playing along and spouting such a crucial "story".

And...hmmmm...good question about Reid. You're rt...she says that in her WC testimony. Maybe she changed her mind at the last minute after others told her it was "warm" outside? I really don't know. Will have to think about it more...

Here's another point i've always wondered about. Who is the guy in Darnell, at the base of the TSBD steps that waves Baker in? Anyone have any ideas? I know it could be an innocent, helpful act....but it has always looked suspicious to me like maybe he, whoever he is, is in on it.

Edited July 31, 2015 by Linda Giovanna Zambanini

[Linda Giovanna Zambanini]

Tommy, Since you mentioned Mrs. Reid getting her coat and scarf out of the closet in her office, i just went back and re-read her testimony. I know i've read it in the past but something jumped out at me that hadn't before. Belin asks her what happened after the shots and she reports she "ran" back into the building....then she said something very interesting!:

Mr. Belin. Did you see anything else of people running or doing anything else?

Mrs. REID. No; because I ran into the building. I do not recall seeing anyone in the lobby. I ran up to our office.

This is very telling - and almost identical to Truly's famously memorable, foot-in-mouth FBI statement that when he and Baker rushed into the building "they saw no one there".

Again why report on a negative? Everyone "knew" LHO was in the snipers nest on the 6th floor and not down in the entryway! Obviously, they all saw a special someone in the lobby!

Secondly, even if Oswald had not been in the lobby or 1st floor storage closet, we know - at least I know from studying blowups of the PM Darnell photos - that several unknown people can be seen right behind the glass doors, looking out. So there were several people in the lobby that Truly, Baker and Reid would have immediately encountered upon entering, in addition to Oswald. Who were they? I would love to know - because those people also would have seen PM as he entered the lobby, and been feet or inches from him as he was standing on the landing.

Addendum: I just found this clear Cook/Cooper photo of Reid up against the TSBD - she definitely has a coat on! No scarf - but that could always be stuffed in her pocket or purse if she deemed the conditions to be too nice for a scarf.

Edited July 31, 2015 by Linda Giovanna Zambanini

[Thomas Graves]

Tommy, Since you mentioned Mrs. Reid getting her coat and scarf out of the closet in her office, i just went back and re-read her testimony. I know i've read it in the past but something jumped out at me that hadn't before. Belin asks her what happened after the shots and she reports she "ran" back into the building....then she said something very interesting!:

Mr. Belin. Did you see anything else of people running or doing anything else?

Mrs. REID. No; because I ran into the building. I do not recall seeing anyone in the lobby. I ran up to our office.

This is very telling - and almost identical to Truly's famously memorable, foot-in-mouth FBI statement that when he and Baker rushed into the building "they saw no one there".

Again why report on a negative? Everyone "knew" LHO was in the snipers nest on the 6th floor and not down in the entryway! Obviously, they all saw a special someone in the lobby!

Secondly, even if Oswald had not been in the lobby or 1st floor storage closet, we know - at least I know from studying blowups of the PM Darnell photos - that several unknown people can be seen right behind the glass doors, looking out. So there were several people in the lobby that Truly, Baker and Reid would have immediately encountered upon entering, in addition to Oswald. Who were they? I would love to know - because those people also would have seen PM as he entered the lobby, and been feet or inches from him as he was standing on the landing.

Addendum: I just found this clear Cook/Cooper photo of Reid up against the TSBD - she definitely has a coat on! No scarf - but that could always be stuffed in her pocket or purse if she deemed the conditions to be too nice for a scarf.

Great work, Linda, as reflected in all of your recent posts.

As to whether or not "Truly #1" has a handkerchief in his breast pocket, I think it's possible that what we're seeing is a part of his white cuff as his hand tucks under his arm. Right now it's a tossup for me as to whether it's his wrist or a handkerchief. Regardless, I don't think "Truly #1" is the guy we're looking for. His face is different (although admittedly he is smiling -- as are several other members of his "party" -- could they be reacting to the sounds of the "firecrackers?), his hat looks lighter in color than its band, I don't see anyone who looks like Reid with him, and it doesn't make sense that Campbell would be standing in the background -- IMHO, Truly and Campbell would have been standing next to each other. After all, they were allegedly on their way to having lunch together when they decided to stop and watch the motorcade....

Assuming that Truly, Campbell, and Reid were all standing near each other, then another thing that would suggest that "my" Truly (Truly #2) is the real deal is the fact that Campbell said in his WC testimony that he thought "Billy" Shelley was standing off to his right.

I think there's a general consensus that Bill Shelley is man with the thin black tie at the top of the steps (behind Lovelady) during the assassination. If that is indeed Shelly on the steps, then he would be "off to the right" of Reid, Truly, and Campbell (off to their right), and off to Truly #1's left.

That's all for now, I guess.

Keep up the good work, Linda!

--Tommy

Edit: In his March 19, 1964, statement to the FBI, Campbell said that during the assassination, Mrs. Bonnie Richie, Mrs. Carolyn Arnold, and Mrs. Jeraldean Reid were "standing at my elbow" during the assassination.

I guess now I'll have to try and find some photos of Bonnie Richie and Carolyn Arnold, as well as the other gals they said they were standing with (Betty Dragoo, Virginia Baker, Judy Johnson, and gals they said they were standing with...).

Edited August 2, 2015 by Thomas Graves

[Thomas Graves]

Apparently this montage is viewable on the JFK Assassination Forum. I don't know who posted it there, or where it came from. I found it by googling, in quotation marks, "Betty Dragoo" and then clicking on "Images." I did not draw the red lines or write the text. I do recognize the two larger crops as coming from the Robert Hughes film.

The important thing for me is that the small photo at the bottom proves that Truly #1 (who was standing on the "island") was wearing a white handkerchief in his breast pocket.

Does anyone here seriously believe that the guy in the bottom photo (with the white handkerchief in his breast pocket and apparently wearing a light-colored tie) is Roy Truly? Click to enlarge.

Please note that on 11/22/63, The Real Deal Truly (the short guy, below) was not wearing a white handkerchief in his jacket pocket, nor was he wearing a light-colored tie.

Thanks,

--Tommy

Edited August 1, 2015 by Thomas Graves

[Linda Giovanna Zambanini]

Thanks, Tommy! And good points about Campbell and Truly sticking together - I agree.

I feel very confident - handkerchief or no handkerchief in Truly#1's breast pocket - that Truly#1 on the left, is not Truly because his face and cheeks are very chubby and it looks like he has sort of a pug nose.

As for the montage you posted directly above with the one photo labeled "Campbell?" - that is not Campbell or Truly#1. Yes, he also has a white handkerchief in his breast pocket and he also has on a white tie like "Truly#1" appears to have - but, IMO, he just doesn't look like the same guy as Truly#1! (I have clearer photos of this this character, but even without them one can see he has a slim, long face and long nose. Unlike chubby-cheeked, pug-nosed Truly#1). Furthermore, I believe he is an entirely different guy...

I worked on this guy a year or so ago after reading a tip posted by James Richards about an ONI guy who was the Chief of the Dallas Naval Air Station, Capt. David Aubrey Sooy. Sooy said he was sitting in his car, parked somewhere near the TSBD waiting for the motorcade to pass by, where he was parked, I'm not sure. The Elm Extension? Or maybe his was the car parked on the western side of the TSBD on Houston? How do we know he was there? Because he died in '95 and it was written right in his obituary - a sort of a claim to fame. It said "he was sitting in his car waiting for the Presidential motorcade to pass the school book depository." Only after I read that obit did I look for and then find him in the Dallas Film Associates reel walking straight toward the camera, right in front of the TSBD. I also think he's the guy we see just above the windshield of the Queen Mary in Altgens6.

After Dallas, he was transferred to Trinidad. It's been a long time since I researched Sooy, but i believe I recall he was put in charge of selecting and supervising the ONI intelligence agents for that entire SA region. This makes his presence around the TSBD even more spooky and nefarious, in my mind.

I am convinced from studying Sooy's photos that this guy is Sooy. It sure as heck looks like him!I find it very suspect that he was there that day. Unfortunately, I have a ton of photos of Sooy and his obituary clipping saved, but they are saved as gifs. This is one of my gripes with this site - apparently one can't upload a photo or file, but must post a URL. I wish they would change that. Here's his gravemarker.


Addendum: Also Truly#1 - if you blow him up - you can see he has on some big-assed sunglasses! "Sooy" does not. He just has on regular glasses that are in fact a different shape than the sunglasses Truly#1 is wearing.

Edited August 1, 2015 by Linda Giovanna Zambanini

[Linda Giovanna Zambanini]

Tommy et al,

I just figured out how to use "google photos" so I can upload my photos there, then post links to them here.......hopefully..... So here goes....

Here's Sooy's Obit (credit to James Richards!): https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/DLi-SwefmiEAX6gKXbU47Jxws_6r1oZVvnf9S3Mtk64=w510-h663-no

(Well, cr*p! just don't get it...I tried clicking on the "image" icon above, inserting the URL and clicking "ok," but it only inserts a little square "dead gif" icon. So, after several attempts just posted the link! Sorry about that! If someone could tell me how to get this to work so things show up, I'd appreciate it.)

Here is a screen capture from the DCA film where I first found "Sooy" at 6:15 . When the camera pans over to him - this is how we see first him: walking toward the camera from the direction of the TSBD steps. My first thought was.... where the heck had he just come from? And had he been inside the TSBD "helping" Truly et al with the investigation?!: https://photos.google.com/album/AF1QipP8G30f8d8q0Rhb3cWeCKJ9om9vpnFNvXuBHcFN/photo/AF1QipOjESn6eOyJ_obH2l6_Rsg3mqbOHxk_5eh7Q6kI

This is a comparison I made from a late 50's Navy photo of Sooy and multiple screen captures of "Sooy" from the DCA film. NB: both of them seem to have big ears as well. : https://photos.google.com/album/AF1QipP8G30f8d8q0Rhb3cWeCKJ9om9vpnFNvXuBHcFN/photo/AF1QipOrFUzlvd5QE4LSgAMV2EUq5kMLgOGKdLTOhjRx

Here's a 40's or 50's photo of a much younger Sooy and his good buddy Frank Krystinik - also ONI. Krystinik worked at Bell Helicopter and was a good friend of Michael Paine's. I think I also got this from James Richards: https://photos.google.com/album/AF1QipP8G30f8d8q0Rhb3cWeCKJ9om9vpnFNvXuBHcFN/photo/AF1QipOSWx40bJcFiWLEy2O0a1t8RTVwBpkI_oCD3RSq

This is a crop I made of the guy seen over the windshield of the Queen Mary in Altgen's 6. I think he looks a lot like "Sooy". A little heftier but it could be the lighting on Sooy's cheekbones in the DCA film, vs this guy whose is not facing southward into the sun and looks a little fuller.:
https://photos.google.com/album/AF1QipP8G30f8d8q0Rhb3cWeCKJ9om9vpnFNvXuBHcFN/photo/AF1QipMIX_BgVJtdkwp30hYlstkPEq40Zmqyc8dN6gcJ

And this is a guy I cropped from a Skaggs photo - he's right in front of the TSBD and looks a great deal like "Sooy" (and the Queen Mary guy), but he looks heftier so I think he may be different guy - unless it's just lighting? Also his hat looks black vs "Sooy's" hat is gray w/a black band. Whoever he is he's a really big guy and looks authoritative to me - he's got an intelligence vibe. I wonder who he is? Anyone know?: https://photos.google.com/album/AF1QipP8G30f8d8q0Rhb3cWeCKJ9om9vpnFNvXuBHcFN/photo/AF1QipPq8y_vuAHKc-pa2p-_h0EUqTAZSJjKK-mNmLOM

Finally, we don't know where Sooy parked - my feeling was probably in the Elm Extension he might have had the best view, but then I found this coup parked on the west side of the TSBD that might be his - but IF he stayed in the car (which I doubt), his view would be blocked by spectators across Houston. I think this screen capture might be from the Cook/Cooper film: https://photos.google.com/album/AF1QipP8G30f8d8q0Rhb3cWeCKJ9om9vpnFNvXuBHcFN/photo/AF1QipPHWaCp9sxPxGdFiAcNlXhT6_jS9shNdjfhh0fe

Ok... there's some food for thought!

Edited August 2, 2015 by Linda Giovanna Zambanini

[Mark Knight]

"I feel very confident - handkerchief or no handkerchief in Truly#1's breast pocket - that Truly#1 on the left, is not Truly because his face and cheeks are very chubby and it looks like he has sort of a pug nose."

So then...I suppose you're saying that apparently Truly #1 truly isn't Truly.

OK...back to seriousness, folks.

[Glenn Nall]

and don't call me Truly.

[Thomas Graves]

Tommy et al,

I just figured out how to use "google photos" so I can upload my photos there, then post links to them here.......hopefully..... So here goes....

Here's Sooy's Obit (credit to James Richards!): https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/DLi-SwefmiEAX6gKXbU47Jxws_6r1oZVvnf9S3Mtk64=w510-h663-no

(Well, cr*p! just don't get it...I tried clicking on the "image" icon above, inserting the URL and clicking "ok," but it only inserts a little square "dead gif" icon. So, after several attempts just posted the link! Sorry about that! If someone could tell me how to get this to work so things show up, I'd appreciate it.)

Here is a screen capture from the DCA film where I first found "Sooy" at 6:15. When the camera pans over to him - this is how we see first him: walking toward the camera from the direction of the TSBD steps. My first thought was.... where the heck had he just come from? And had he been inside the TSBD "helping" Truly et al with the investigation?!https://photos.google.com/album/AF1QipP8G30f8d8q0Rhb3cWeCKJ9om9vpnFNvXuBHcFN/photo/AF1QipOjESn6eOyJ_obH2l6_Rsg3mqbOHxk_5eh7Q6kI

This is a comparison I made from a late 50's Navy photo of Sooy and multiple screen captures of "Sooy" from the DCA film. NB: both of them seem to have big ears as well. : https://photos.google.com/album/AF1QipP8G30f8d8q0Rhb3cWeCKJ9om9vpnFNvXuBHcFN/photo/AF1QipOrFUzlvd5QE4LSgAMV2EUq5kMLgOGKdLTOhjRx

Here's a 40's or 50's photo of a much younger Sooy and his good buddy Frank Krystinik - also ONI. Krystinik worked at Bell Helicopter and was a good friend of Michael Paine's. I think I also got this from James Richards: https://photos.google.com/album/AF1QipP8G30f8d8q0Rhb3cWeCKJ9om9vpnFNvXuBHcFN/photo/AF1QipOSWx40bJcFiWLEy2O0a1t8RTVwBpkI_oCD3RSq

This is a crop I made of the guy seen over the windshield of the Queen Mary in Altgen's 6. I think he looks a lot like "Sooy". A little heftier but it could be the lighting on Sooy's cheekbones in the DCA film, vs this guy whose is not facing southward into the sun and looks a little fuller.

ttps://photos.google.com/album/AF1QipP8G30f8d8q0Rhb3cWeCKJ9om9vpnFNvXuBHcFN/photo/AF1QipMIX_BgVJtdkwp30hYlstkPEq40Zmqyc8dN6gcJ

And this is a guy I cropped from a Skaggs photo - he's right in front of the TSBD and looks a great deal like "Sooy" (and the Queen Mary guy), but he looks heftier so I think he may be different guy - unless it's just lighting? Also his hat looks black vs "Sooy's" hat is gray w/a black band. Whoever he is he's a really big guy and looks authoritative to me - he's got an intelligence vibe. I wonder who he is? Anyone know? https://photos.google.com/album/AF1QipP8G30f8d8q0Rhb3cWeCKJ9om9vpnFNvXuBHcFN/photo/AF1QipPq8y_vuAHKc-pa2p-_h0EUqTAZSJjKK-mNmLOM

Finally, we don't know where he parked - my feeling was probably in the Elm Extension he might have had the best view, but then I found this coup parked on the west side of the TSBD that might be his - but IF he stayed in the car (which I doubt), his view would be blocked by spectators across Houston. I think this screen capture might be from the Cook/Cooper film: https://photos.google.com/album/AF1QipP8G30f8d8q0Rhb3cWeCKJ9om9vpnFNvXuBHcFN/photo/AF1QipPHWaCp9sxPxGdFiAcNlXhT6_jS9shNdjfhh0fe

Ok... there's some food for thought!

Linda,

I have some bad news, and then I have some really bad news.

First, the bad news. The only links that work for me are the newspaper's obituary and the DCA video. The six "googlephotos" links don't work. Try clicking on them to see what I mean.

Now for the really bad news. I disagree with you when you say the guy at 6:15 in the video is not the same guy who is standing on the "island" during the assassination with his arms crossed and a white handkerchief in his breast pocket. There are too many similarities. The handkerchief, the suit, the lighter-than-its-hatband hat, the white tie. The faces are close enough for me. He was smiling on the "island" and practically frowning at 6:15 in the video. It's understandable that his face would look different under those conditions.

So we don't divert this thread any farther from answering the question "Where was Truly right after the last shot," I'm going to start a new thread and call it "White Tie And Handkerchief Guy -- ONI Officer David Aubrey Sooy?" Please feel free to put your posts on your 6:15 guy and Sooy there.

--Tommy

Edited August 1, 2015 by Thomas Graves

[Glenn Nall]

or in keeping with your rhyme, you could call it: "White Tie and Handkerchief Guy - Was He Mr. Sooy, of ONI?"

sorry...

[Thomas Graves]

Tommy et al,

I just figured out how to use "google photos" so I can upload my photos there, then post links to them here.......hopefully..... So here goes....

Here's Sooy's Obit (credit to James Richards!): https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/DLi-SwefmiEAX6gKXbU47Jxws_6r1oZVvnf9S3Mtk64=w510-h663-no

(Well, cr*p! just don't get it...I tried clicking on the "image" icon above, inserting the URL and clicking "ok," but it only inserts a little square "dead gif" icon. So, after several attempts just posted the link! Sorry about that! If someone could tell me how to get this to work so things show up, I'd appreciate it.)

Here is a screen capture from the DCA film where I first found "Sooy" at 6:15. When the camera pans over to him - this is how we see first him: walking toward the camera from the direction of the TSBD steps. My first thought was.... where the heck had he just come from? And had he been inside the TSBD "helping" Truly et al with the investigation?!https://photos.google.com/album/AF1QipP8G30f8d8q0Rhb3cWeCKJ9om9vpnFNvXuBHcFN/photo/AF1QipOjESn6eOyJ_obH2l6_Rsg3mqbOHxk_5eh7Q6kI

This is a comparison I made from a late 50's Navy photo of Sooy and multiple screen captures of "Sooy" from the DCA film. NB: both of them seem to have big ears as well. : https://photos.google.com/album/AF1QipP8G30f8d8q0Rhb3cWeCKJ9om9vpnFNvXuBHcFN/photo/AF1QipOrFUzlvd5QE4LSgAMV2EUq5kMLgOGKdLTOhjRx

Here's a 40's or 50's photo of a much younger Sooy and his good buddy Frank Krystinik - also ONI. Krystinik worked at Bell Helicopter and was a good friend of Michael Paine's. I think I also got this from James Richards: https://photos.google.com/album/AF1QipP8G30f8d8q0Rhb3cWeCKJ9om9vpnFNvXuBHcFN/photo/AF1QipOSWx40bJcFiWLEy2O0a1t8RTVwBpkI_oCD3RSq

This is a crop I made of the guy seen over the windshield of the Queen Mary in Altgen's 6. I think he looks a lot like "Sooy". A little heftier but it could be the lighting on Sooy's cheekbones in the DCA film, vs this guy whose is not facing southward into the sun and looks a little fuller.

ttps://photos.google.com/album/AF1QipP8G30f8d8q0Rhb3cWeCKJ9om9vpnFNvXuBHcFN/photo/AF1QipMIX_BgVJtdkwp30hYlstkPEq40Zmqyc8dN6gcJ

And this is a guy I cropped from a Skaggs photo - he's right in front of the TSBD and looks a great deal like "Sooy" (and the Queen Mary guy), but he looks heftier so I think he may be different guy - unless it's just lighting? Also his hat looks black vs "Sooy's" hat is gray w/a black band. Whoever he is he's a really big guy and looks authoritative to me - he's got an intelligence vibe. I wonder who he is? Anyone know? https://photos.google.com/album/AF1QipP8G30f8d8q0Rhb3cWeCKJ9om9vpnFNvXuBHcFN/photo/AF1QipPq8y_vuAHKc-pa2p-_h0EUqTAZSJjKK-mNmLOM

Finally, we don't know where he parked - my feeling was probably in the Elm Extension he might have had the best view, but then I found this coup parked on the west side of the TSBD that might be his - but IF he stayed in the car (which I doubt), his view would be blocked by spectators across Houston. I think this screen capture might be from the Cook/Cooper film: https://photos.google.com/album/AF1QipP8G30f8d8q0Rhb3cWeCKJ9om9vpnFNvXuBHcFN/photo/AF1QipPHWaCp9sxPxGdFiAcNlXhT6_jS9shNdjfhh0fe

Ok... there's some food for thought!

Linda,

I have some bad news, and then I have some really bad news.

First, the bad news. The only links that work for me are the newspaper's obituary and the DCA video. The six "googlephotos" links don't work. Try clicking on them to see what I mean.

Now for the really bad news. I disagree with you when you say the guy at 6:15 in the video is not the same guy who is standing on the "island" during the assassination with his arms crossed and a white handkerchief in his breast pocket. There are too many similarities. The handkerchief, the suit, the lighter-than-its-hatband hat, the white tie. The faces are close enough for me. He was smiling on the "island" and practically frowning at 6:15 in the video. It's understandable that his face would look different because of the facial contortions he's going through.

So we don't divert this thread any farther from the question "Where was Truly right after the last shot," I'm going to start a new thread and call it "White Tie And Handkerchief Guy -- ONI Officer David Aubrey Sooy?," or something like that. Please feel free to put your posts on my "6:15 Guy" and your Sooy there.

--Tommy

bumped for Linda

Edited August 2, 2015 by Thomas Graves

[Linda Giovanna Zambanini]

"I feel very confident - handkerchief or no handkerchief in Truly#1's breast pocket - that Truly#1 on the left, is not Truly because his face and cheeks are very chubby and it looks like he has sort of a pug nose."

So then...I suppose you're saying that apparently Truly #1 truly isn't Truly.

OK...back to seriousness, folks.

Hi Mark,

I'm not sure what you mean by this? Are you disagreeing with Tommy's supposition and my support of it, and making fun of my post as not being serious? That's what it seems like.

To recap, in case you are misunderstanding who "Truly#1" and "Truly#2" are:

"Truly#1" is the term Tommy coined the other night for the man in the left-hand grouping, on the island by the stoplight, whom many - including myself, until the other night - have long posited was Truly.

A couple of pages back, Tommy posited (for the first time anywhere, that i'm aware of) that there is another grouping with Truly, Campbell and Reid (and others around and in front of them) seen at the very far right of the final Weigman frame capturing the TSBD doorway and steps. He called that that "Truly," in the far right-hand grouping, "Truly#2".

In the intervening posts, Tommy (and I) have gone on to point out how the location of the grouping on the far right, lines up with the affidavits, testimonies and statements of Truly, Campbell and Reid about where they were standing.

I then went on to find and post a very clear screen capture showing a clear rendering of the face of "Truly#1" and the left-hand grouping - it was from a Wiegman slide of Jack White's that Bjorn and Robin Unger had kindly posted over in the PM thread.

This very clear photo shows "Truly#1" to have a round, chubby face and cheeks and a rather fat, puggish nose and he's wearing very large sunglasses - which are not the shape of the Roy Truly's regular glasses. Thus, it's conclusive that "Truly#1" cannot be the REAL Roy Truly!:

So, I indeed agree with Tommy's supposition, and have put forward corroborative photographic evidence, that Truly#1 cannot be Roy Truly, and Truly#2 in the in the grouping on the right must be the actual RoyTruly.

It all seems very serious and logical to me - and i'll speak for Tommy here too.

Of course, if you, or anyone else, can put forward a cogent argument refuting any of these things, i have a very open mind and am quite willing to listen to opposing viewpoints and arguments and take them into consideration. I am all about the truth coming out and am quite willing to accept new and contradictory information, even if it would lead to rejecting these points. I am also willing to reject such information if it doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

Edited August 2, 2015 by Linda Giovanna Zambanini

[Glenn Nall]

"I feel very confident - handkerchief or no handkerchief in Truly#1's breast pocket - that Truly#1 on the left, is not Truly because his face and cheeks are very chubby and it looks like he has sort of a pug nose."

So then...I suppose you're saying that apparently Truly #1 truly isn't Truly.

OK...back to seriousness, folks.

Hi Mark,

I'm not sure what you mean by this? Are you disagreeing with Tommy's supposition and my support of it, and making fun of my post as not being serious? That's what it seems like.

To recap, in case you are misunderstanding who "Truly#1" and "Truly#2" are:

"Truly#1" is the term Tommy coined the other night for the man in the left-hand grouping, on the island by the stoplight, whom many - including myself, until the other night - have long posited was Truly.

A couple of pages back, Tommy posited (for the first time anywhere, that i'm aware of) that there is another grouping with Truly, Campbell and Reid (and others around and in front of them) seen at the very far right of the final Weigman frame capturing the TSBD doorway and steps. He called that that "Truly," in the far right-hand grouping, "Truly#2".

In the intervening posts, Tommy (and I) have gone on to point out how the location of the grouping on the far right, lines up with the affidavits, testimonies and statements of Truly, Campbell and Reid about where they were standing.

I then went on to find and post a very clear screen capture showing a clear rendering of the face of "Truly#1" and the left-hand grouping - it was from a Wiegman slide of Jack White's that Bjorn and Robin Unger had kindly posted over in the PM thread.

This very clear photo shows "Truly#1" to have a round, chubby face and cheeks and a rather fat, puggish nose and he's wearing very large sunglasses - which are not the shape of the Roy Truly's regular glasses. Thus, it's conclusive that "Truly#1" cannot be the REAL Roy Truly!:

So, I indeed agree with Tommy's supposition, and have put forward corroborative photographic evidence, that Truly#1 cannot be Roy Truly, and Truly#2 in the in the grouping on the right must be the actual RoyTruly.

It all seems very serious and logical to me - and i'll speak for Tommy here too.

Of course, if you, or anyone else, can put forward a cogent argument refuting any of these things, i have a very open mind and am quite willing to listen to opposing viewpoints and arguments and take them into consideration. I am all about the truth coming out and am quite willing to accept new and contradictory information, even if it would lead to rejecting these points. I am also willing to reject such information if it doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

he was just cuttin' up:

"apparently Truly #1 truly isn't Truly"...

[Thomas Graves]

"I feel very confident - handkerchief or no handkerchief in Truly#1's breast pocket - that Truly#1 on the left, is not Truly because his face and cheeks are very chubby and it looks like he has sort of a pug nose."

So then...I suppose you're saying that apparently Truly #1 truly isn't Truly.

OK...back to seriousness, folks.

Correct, Mark.

Linda and I have determined that the guy I've been calling call "Truly #1," the man who's wearing a dark suit and fedora and standing on the edge of the "island" with his arms crossed in Wiegman, is not Roy Truly.

Linda and I think we have found, in an enhanced clip from Dave Wiegman's film, the real Roy Truly, O.V. Campbell, and Jeraldean Reid standing near each other on the sidewalk in front of the front steps, and we think that their actions a few seconds after the shooting, as captured in Darnell and Couch, suggest that Campbell was telling the truth when he told a newspaper reporter on 11/22/63 (published 11/23/63) that "We" (probably Campbell and Reid, and perhaps Truly and / or Marion Baker) "went through the the front door shortly after the shooting stopped and encountered Oswald in a first floor storage room." (paraphrasing a bit here)

Linda and I mildly disagree on whether or not "Truly #1" is also visible starting at 6:15 in this video. I say he is, Linda says it's a different man.

Yours truly,

--Tommy

Edited August 2, 2015 by Thomas Graves