Castro Figured out the JFK Case in 5 Days

[Steve Jenkins]

I suspect DeGaulle figured out things pretty quick as well. Three world leaders all in the crosshairs at about the same time. Who would have thought Castro would be the last man standing.

Another world leader in the cross hairs at about the same time:

Ngo Dinh Diem, SVN.

In 1963 the Corsican Mafia a/k/a "the French connection" controlled the world's heroin production while the Sicilian-American Mafia controlled smack distribution in the States.

Pre-Fidel, Havana was the central depot for heroin distribution.

South Vietnam was the gateway to the yet-developed poppy fields of the Golden Triangle Laos/Burma/Thailand.

So the leaders of the USA, France, Cuba and So. Vietnam were all targeted for removal.

Interesting coincidence, eh wot?

Wow! I never looked at those events as linked in that way. Thanks for sharing that.

Whe one looks back at Iran Contra in that light it makes one realize how much the drug situation influences military and foreign policy decisions.

Intersting how when attention drifted away from the overthrow of Cuba it shifted immediately in the direction of Vietnam. Most everybody got what they wanted anyway. Ironic how in both cases all the energy had so little affect with response to communism.

Excuse my ignorance but was the geographic area that Dugalle wanted to step away from and seemed to be so central in the incentive to kill him relevant to the drug trade or was that smoke and mirrors in your opinion?

[Cliff Varnell]

I suspect DeGaulle figured out things pretty quick as well. Three world leaders all in the crosshairs at about the same time. Who would have thought Castro would be the last man standing.

Another world leader in the cross hairs at about the same time:

Ngo Dinh Diem, SVN.

In 1963 the Corsican Mafia a/k/a "the French connection" controlled the world's heroin production while the Sicilian-American Mafia controlled smack distribution in the States.

Pre-Fidel, Havana was the central depot for heroin distribution.

South Vietnam was the gateway to the yet-developed poppy fields of the Golden Triangle Laos/Burma/Thailand.

So the leaders of the USA, France, Cuba and So. Vietnam were all targeted for removal.

Interesting coincidence, eh wot?

Wow! I never looked at those events as linked in that way. Thanks for sharing that.

Whe one looks back at Iran Contra in that light it makes one realize how much the drug situation influences military and foreign policy decisions.

Intersting how when attention drifted away from the overthrow of Cuba it shifted immediately in the direction of Vietnam. Most everybody got what they wanted anyway. Ironic how in both cases all the energy had so little affect with response to communism.

Excuse my ignorance but was the geographic area that Dugalle wanted to step away from and seemed to be so central in the incentive to kill him relevant to the drug trade or was that smoke and mirrors in your opinion?

Good question -- requires continued study.

French intel, the SDECE, was heavily involved in the drug trade.

No beef between DeGaulle and SDECE in this account:

http://fas.org/irp/world/france/defense/dgse/

[James DiEugenio]

The attempt on DeGaulle was clearly about Algeria as Talbot makes clear.

The assassination of Diem and his brother was over a dispute between the WH and State Department over out crumbling position in Vietnam, and what to do about it.

There might have been secondary results but those were clearly the primary reasons.

[Steve Jenkins]

I think in all these assassinations there is a combination of things the bring various groups into the mix. For example with Kennedy I think the idea that he was not the man for the time with respect to the communism battle was a big driver. The anti Castro folks had that and more for motivation. The mob had drugs and casinos and legal troubles. Big oil had their issues and on and on. What most did not know at the time was how much intel, the mob, big oil and so on we're in bed with each other. This process has been educational for many as to how the world really works compared to how we thought it did.

[Cliff Varnell]

The attempt on DeGaulle was clearly about Algeria as Talbot makes clear.

The assassination of Diem and his brother was over a dispute between the WH and State Department over out crumbling position in Vietnam, and what to do about it.

There might have been secondary results but those were clearly the primary reasons.

And what created that "crumbling position" in Vietnam?

The May 8 attack in Hue -- perpetrated by the CIA but blamed on Diem -- which lead to crack-downs on Buddhist pagodas.

Why did the CIA want to destablize the Diem regime?

Who else wanted to over-throw Diem?

"State, led by Harriman" -- Kennedy's own words.

[Cliff Varnell]

The Assassinations of the 1960s as "Deep Events"
Peter Dale Scott Pittsburgh October 2008

For over two years now I have been speaking and writing about what I call deep events. I mean by deep events the traumatic and unexpected episodes that recur periodically in US history and alter it, nearly always for the worse. These deep events can never be properly analyzed or understood, because of an intelligence dimension which results in a socially imposed veil of silence, both in the government and in the Mainstream Media.

The more that I look at these deep events comparatively, ranging over the past five decades, the more similarities I see between them, and the more I understand them in the light of each other. I hope in this paper to use analogies from the murder of JFK and 9/11 to cast new light on the murders of Martin Luther King and Robert F. Kennedy.[1]

I began this analysis in 2006 by comparing the JFK assassination with 9/11. I drew attention to over a dozen similarities, of which today I will be focusing on only four:

1) the remarkable and puzzling speed with which those in power identified what I call the designated culprits (Lee Harvey Oswald and the 19 alleged hijackers),

2) the self-incriminating trail allegedly left by the culprits themselves such as the bundle that James Earl Ray is said to have conveniently left in a doorway on his way to his car. Oswald was said to have carried a flagrantly falsified draft card identifying himself with the name A.J. Hidell, thus consolidating a link between himself and the Mannlicher-Carcano which had been ordered under that name.[2] Even more spectacularly, Mohamed Atta was said to have left one rental car in the Boston airport, filled with boxcutters and other incriminating items; he then allegedly rented a second car and drove to Maine, where he packed bags with still more self-incriminating material.[3]

3) the CIA's withholding of relevant information about the designated culprits from the FBI, thus leaving the culprits free to play their allotted roles on 9/11. I will say more about this.

4) the role of drug-trafficking in both JFK and 9/11 and indeed in virtually every major deep event since JFK, specifically including MLK, RFK, Watergate, the Letelier assassination, and Iran-Contra.

<quote off>

...The partition of Laos in 1962...

This stuff a little beyond your ken, Jim?

Edited May 27, 2016 by Cliff Varnell

[Martin Blank]

I suspect DeGaulle figured out things pretty quick as well. Three world leaders all in the crosshairs at about the same time. Who would have thought Castro would be the last man standing.

Another world leader in the cross hairs at about the same time:

Ngo Dinh Diem, SVN.

In 1963 the Corsican Mafia a/k/a "the French connection" controlled the world's heroin production while the Sicilian-American Mafia controlled smack distribution in the States.

Pre-Fidel, Havana was the central depot for heroin distribution.

South Vietnam was the gateway to the yet-developed poppy fields of the Golden Triangle Laos/Burma/Thailand.

So the leaders of the USA, France, Cuba and So. Vietnam were all targeted for removal.

Interesting coincidence, eh wot?

Wow! I never looked at those events as linked in that way. Thanks for sharing that.

Whe one looks back at Iran Contra in that light it makes one realize how much the drug situation influences military and foreign policy decisions.

Intersting how when attention drifted away from the overthrow of Cuba it shifted immediately in the direction of Vietnam. Most everybody got what they wanted anyway. Ironic how in both cases all the energy had so little affect with response to communism.

Excuse my ignorance but was the geographic area that Dugalle wanted to step away from and seemed to be so central in the incentive to kill him relevant to the drug trade or was that smoke and mirrors in your opinion?

many of the 20th-21st century's wars were fought over oil and heroin

[Martin Blank]

sorry if this is a little scrambled but i'm trying to respond to several different matters. thanks.

i've seen some references that mention that Nhu was talking to the North Vietnamese about a settlement of what the brothers now saw as a purely vietnamese matter before his and his brother's murder. (in this scenario would they have asked America to withdraw, buttressing Kennedy's plan withdrawal or helping to further his deception re: withdrawal. after all. . .

Chiang Kai shek's Kuomintang became heavily involved in the Golden Triangle after they fled China following Mao's victory.

re: castro'ss figuring it all out, anyone with half a brain could figure it out. my mother was a clerk in a bakery and she was asking questions from the beginning. How did they know to look for Oswald? How did they know so quickly, etc. she also thought LBJ was in there somewhere. my point being not that my mother had more than half a brain – she surely did – but that something smelled wrong even to the blue collar element of the population at the time.

but at that time what did you do with those beliefs since all avenues of redress and investigation were blocked. hell even now if you had it all figured out to well beyond a reasonable doubt who would you take the information to? the government or the enquirer

one more thing:

Only hours after Kennedy was shot, CIA agent Gary Underhill left Washington, D.C., and drove to the home of friends on Long Island, N.Y. Underhill says he fears for his life and he must leave the country.

“This country is too dangerous for me. I've got to get on a boat. Oswald is a patsy. They set him up. It's too much. The bastards have done something outrageous. They've killed the president! I've been listening and hearing things. I couldn't believe they'd get away with it, but they did. They've gone mad! They're a bunch of drug runners and gun runners – a real violence group. (my emphasis) I know who they are. That's the problem. They know I know. That's why I'm here.”

The friends offered Underhill sanctuary but he left, never to return. Six months later, he was dead, a “suicide.” The bullet was in his left temple. Underhill was right-handed.

i know there were several cia people who were involved in the bay of pigs and in the assassination who were were transferred to vietnam and eth rest of SE Asia. Ted Shackley took Carl E. Jenkins, David Morales, Raphael Quintero, Felix Rodriguez and Edwin Wilson with him to Laos

Edited May 27, 2016 by Martin Blank

[Steve Jenkins]

I think many of the folks that accept there was a conspiracy to kill Kennedy have not yet come to appreciate the scale involved. Many believe that it involved a rogue element of the CIA. The problem with this conclusion is thst there is evidence that there is connection between the Kennedy, DuGaulle, Castro, and Diem killings or attempted killings. This was not the work of a rougle group.

So much for making the world safe for democracy. Democratic or Dictator, nobody was safe.

[James DiEugenio]

Martin:

No offense to your mother, but please note the sophistication and the knowledge Castro dispelled in that off the cuff speech to a bunch of students. For example, about the rifle, about Ruby, most of all about Mex City.

In five days?

Cliff,

look I have also heard about this drug angle from the late George Michael Evica, a long time ago. There was also a book about it that is out.

I was speaking in terms of direct causes. There are always ramifications to a huge change in policy.

Martin, yes, Diem was thinking of talking to the north about a settlement, the CIA used this to stir up the military even more.

Edited May 28, 2016 by James DiEugenio

[Cliff Varnell]

Jim DiEugenio wrote:

Cliff,

look I have also heard about this drug angle from the late George Michael Evica, a long time ago. There wis also a book about it that is out.

Jim, my arguments have little in common with what anyone has written on this case.

"This drug angle" -- ??

I call it the Gary Underhill Scenario.

Evica liked to play with the "Evica/Drago Sponsor-Facilitator-Mechanic Model" and I think that approach is a crock.

On 11/22/63 a man was murdered on an American street and he deserved to have a standard investigation into his death.

Such an investigation should start with a rigorous inspection of the physical evidence -- and a blank tackboard.

Any Persons of Interest I can argue for that tackboard are consistent with the Underhill Scenario.

Edited May 28, 2016 by Cliff Varnell

[Martin Blank]

Martin:

No offense to your mother, but please note the sophistication and the knowledge Castro dispelled in that off the cuff speech to a bunch of students. For example, about the rifle, about Ruby, most of all about Mex City.

In five days?

Cliff,

look I have also heard about this drug angle from the late George Michael Evica, a long time ago. There wis also a book about it that is out.

I was speaking in terms of direct causes. There are always ramifications to a huge change in policy.

Martin, yes, Diem was thinking of talking to the north about a settlement, the CIA used this to stir up the military even more.

no offense taken; castro had a slightly better intelligence service than my mom (only slightly) anyway my point was not to compare her to castro but to show how deep and quickly there were doubts in the socio-economic structure. castro was a smart man there's no doubting that. he has survived 11 presidents.

Edited May 28, 2016 by Martin Blank

[Cliff Varnell]

sorry if this is a little scrambled but i'm trying to respond to several different matters. thanks.

i've seen some references that mention that Nhu was talking to the North Vietnamese about a settlement of what the brothers now saw as a purely vietnamese matter before his and his brother's murder. (in this scenario would they have asked America to withdraw, buttressing Kennedy's plan withdrawal or helping to further his deception re: withdrawal. after all. . .

Chiang Kai shek's Kuomintang became heavily involved in the Golden Triangle after they fled China following Mao's victory.

re: castro'ss figuring it all out, anyone with half a brain could figure it out. my mother was a clerk in a bakery and she was asking questions from the beginning. How did they know to look for Oswald? How did they know so quickly, etc. she also thought LBJ was in there somewhere. my point being not that my mother had more than half a brain – she surely did – but that something smelled wrong even to the blue collar element of the population at the time.

but at that time what did you do with those beliefs since all avenues of redress and investigation were blocked. hell even now if you had it all figured out to well beyond a reasonable doubt who would you take the information to? the government or the enquirer

one more thing:

Only hours after Kennedy was shot, CIA agent Gary Underhill left Washington, D.C., and drove to the home of friends on Long Island, N.Y. Underhill says he fears for his life and he must leave the country.

“This country is too dangerous for me. I've got to get on a boat. Oswald is a patsy. They set him up. It's too much. The bastards have done something outrageous. They've killed the president! I've been listening and hearing things. I couldn't believe they'd get away with it, but they did. They've gone mad! They're a bunch of drug runners and gun runners – a real violence group. (my emphasis) I know who they are. That's the problem. They know I know. That's why I'm here.”

The friends offered Underhill sanctuary but he left, never to return. Six months later, he was dead, a “suicide.” The bullet was in his left temple. Underhill was right-handed.

i know there were several cia people who were involved in the bay of pigs and in the assassination who were were transferred to vietnam and eth rest of SE Asia. Ted Shackley took Carl E. Jenkins, David Morales, Raphael Quintero, Felix Rodriguez and Edwin Wilson with him to Laos

Martin, thank you for bringing up Gary Underhill.

The Underhill Scenario of dope running CIA type perps is one of three conspiracy theories rendered between the murder of Kennedy and the murder of Oswald on 11/24/63.

The other two are the Prosector's Scenario and the Salandria/Feldman Scenario.

Any "conspiracy theory" regarding the murder of JFK (distinct from the murder of Oswald) rendered after the murder of the patsy is -- in my opinion -- 99.40% equine offal.

After Oswald was shot it was a bunch of wild geese chasing red herrings down rabbit holes.

The Prosector's Scenario:

From autopsy-attendee FBI SA Francis O'Neill's sworn affidavit for the HSCA:

<quote on>

Some discussion did occur concerning the disintegration of the bullet. A general

feeling existed that a soft-nosed bullet struck JFK. There was discussion concerning

the back wound that the bullet could have been a "plastic" type or an "Ice" [sic]

bullet, one which dissolves after contact.

<quote off>

From autopsy-attendee FBI SA James Sibert's sworn affidavit for the HSCA:

<quote on>

The doctors also discussed a possible deflection of the bullet in the body caused

by striking bone. Consideration was also given to a type of bullet which fragments

completely....Following discussion among the doctors relating to the back injury, I

left the autopsy room to call the FBI Laboratory and spoke with Agent Chuch [sic]

Killion. I asked if he could furnish any information regarding a type of bullet that

would almost completely fragmentize (sic).

<quote off>

With they body in front of them the autopsists speculated that JFK was struck with a high tech weapon featuring rounds which wouldn't show up on x-ray or in the body.

The Salandria/Feldman Scenario.

"Notes on Lunch with Arlen Specter," by Vincent Salandria.

http://politicalassassinations.com/2012/11/1560/

<quote on>

I explained [to Specter] that the day after the Kennedy assassination I met with my then brother-in-law, Harold Feldman.

We decided that if Oswald was the killer, and if the U.S. government were innocent of any complicity in the assassination,

Oswald would live through the weekend. But if he was killed, then we would know that the assassination was a consequence

of a high level U.S. government plot.

Harold Feldman and I also concluded that if Oswald was killed by a Jew, it would indicate a high level WASP plot.

We further decided that the killing of Oswald would signal that no government investigation could upturn the truth.

In that event we as private citizens would have to investigate the assassination to arrive at the historical truth.

<quote off>

Edited May 28, 2016 by Cliff Varnell

[Sandy Larsen]

Only hours after Kennedy was shot, CIA agent Gary Underhill left Washington, D.C., and drove to the home of friends on Long Island, N.Y. Underhill says he fears for his life and he must leave the country.

“This country is too dangerous for me. I've got to get on a boat. Oswald is a patsy. They set him up. It's too much. The bastards have done something outrageous. They've killed the president! I've been listening and hearing things. I couldn't believe they'd get away with it, but they did. They've gone mad! They're a bunch of drug runners and gun runners – a real violence group. (my emphasis) I know who they are. That's the problem. They know I know. That's why I'm here.”

The friends offered Underhill sanctuary but he left, never to return. Six months later, he was dead, a “suicide.” The bullet was in his left temple. Underhill was right-handed.

Martin,

According to a memo the CIA sent to the Justice Department, Underhill was never an employee of the CIA. He had only infrequent contact with the CIA (who hasn't? ), and that was just "routine."

I might add that there is no proof that the CIA wasn't telling the truth in that memo.

Therefore, given that Gary Underhill could not have had inside information regarding the assassination, it is reasonable to conclude the his ranting and raving were merely those of "a deeply troubled man," as James DiEugenio astutely describes Underhill in Destiny Betrayed.

As for Underhill's suicide, there is no proof that Underhill could not have shot himself in the left temple with his right hand. And so there is no reason to question his suicide.

Source: John McAdams' Website

<end stupid thinking> <end sarcasm>

(And people say McAdam's isn't a paid disinformant....)

[Martin Blank]

Only hours after Kennedy was shot, CIA agent Gary Underhill left Washington, D.C., and drove to the home of friends on Long Island, N.Y. Underhill says he fears for his life and he must leave the country.

“This country is too dangerous for me. I've got to get on a boat. Oswald is a patsy. They set him up. It's too much. The bastards have done something outrageous. They've killed the president! I've been listening and hearing things. I couldn't believe they'd get away with it, but they did. They've gone mad! They're a bunch of drug runners and gun runners – a real violence group. (my emphasis) I know who they are. That's the problem. They know I know. That's why I'm here.”

The friends offered Underhill sanctuary but he left, never to return. Six months later, he was dead, a “suicide.” The bullet was in his left temple. Underhill was right-handed.

Martin,

According to a memo the CIA sent to the Justice Department, Underhill was never an employee of the CIA. He had only infrequent contact with the CIA (who hasn't? ), and that was just "routine."

I might add that there is no proof that the CIA wasn't telling the truth in that memo.

Therefore, given that Gary Underhill could not have had inside information regarding the assassination, it is reasonable to conclude the his ranting and raving were merely those of "a deeply troubled man," as James DiEugenio astutely describes Underhill in Destiny Betrayed.

As for Underhill's suicide, there is no proof that Underhill could not have shot himself in the left temple with his right hand. And so there is no reason to question his suicide.

Source: John McAdams' Website

<end stupid thinking> <end sarcasm>

(And people say McAdam's isn't a paid disinformant....)

and the cia said oswald never worked for them either