Altgens 6, a different view

[Bill Miller]

1 hour ago, Ray Mitcham said:

John, there was no "screen" or "shade" on Nellie's window in Altgens 6. The "screen or shade" you think you can see is the reflection of a building on the glass. And you can't see enough of her window in Atlgens 5 to say that there is "probably a screen or shade."

Do you always misread images like this?

You could not be more correct in your assessment, Ray. I reflection off the glass is spot-on!

[John Butler]

Ray,

What building might that be?  Is it the widely distorted Dal-Tex in the rear of the photo?  Is it a building on east Elm such as the Purse and Co. building?  Is it the Terminal Annex on Commerce?  Could it be a building on the other side of the Triple Underpass?

Stayed tuned for the next post it has a mini lesson on the Law of Reflection. 

[John Butler]

Bill,

Thanks for making my point with the two photos.

[John Butler]

Alastair,

The Woman in Blue is the Babushka Woman.  The Woman in Blue is seen in the Zapruder film and no where else.  The Babushka Women is seen in the place of the Woman in Blue in other films and photos. 

Here's one for you.  Have you ever seen the face of the Babushka Woman?  There's a woman over on Main St. in Altgens 4 or maybe Altgens 3 that is a good candidate.  But, based on what you see you can't really say that's the Babushka Woman.  Other than that you never see her face.  Curious? 

If you go out west to the mountains in a particular western state which I will not name so that tourists don't find it you will find a high sheer mountain face.  Into the face of that mountain cliff is inscribed "Thou Shalt Not See The Face Of The Babushka Woman." 

[John Butler]

Hey Ray,

That building has a wrinkle in it.  That's strange.

[Bill Miller]

2 hours ago, John Butler said:

Ray,

What building might that be?  Is it the widely distorted Dal-Tex in the rear of the photo?  Is it a building on east Elm such as the Purse and Co. building?  Is it the Terminal Annex on Commerce?  Could it be a building on the other side of the Triple Underpass?

Stayed tuned for the next post it has a mini lesson on the Law of Reflection. 

Why does it have to be a building and not another structure like the column near where Croft took his photo. Better yet - why not get a photo an overhead view of the street and find where the limo was at Altgen's 6 and where Ike Altgens stood and draw a line from he to the window on the overhead view and then a second line (of an equal angle of reflection) and let it let it show you where it goes. Seems like that would make more sense than jumping to some silly idea that there was a shade over the glass in one photo that no other camera couldn't see. It just seems to be a responsible approach to check for the obvious before claiming someone altered a photo by putting a shade over the window.

[Bill Miller]

2 hours ago, John Butler said:

Alastair,

The Woman in Blue is the Babushka Woman.  The Woman in Blue is seen in the Zapruder film and no where else. 

The woman you are talking about (Bev Oliver) is seen in the Marie Muchmore film.

[John Butler]

Bill,

can you tell me where the limo is on elm st.?  Is it at z frame 255 and after the freeway signs or before and closer to the TSBD?

to know where the viewer is important in knowing the angle of reflection.  Is altgens in the street?  He is shown on the grass in zapruder.  We can imagine him in the street.  Or take zapruder for his location.  The angle of incidence is equal to the angle of reflection.  That is hard to determine whe you don't know the viewers location or the position of the object providing the reflection.

 

[Alistair Briggs]

5 hours ago, John Butler said:

The Woman in Blue is the Babushka Woman.  The Woman in Blue is seen in the Zapruder film and no where else.  The Babushka Women is seen in the place of the Woman in Blue in other films and photos.

Honestly? Really? Trying to work out what you are on about... seems that you are saying that the 'Woman in Blue' seen in the Zapruder film is not the same as the 'Babushka Woman' seen in other films and photos... even though you start by saying that the 'Woman in Blue' IS the 'Babushka Woman'.

Can't believe I am going to have to do the leg work here for you,

Just in case you are being totally confused, I will ask this, when you say Woman in Blue are you referring to the one viewable in Zapruder frame 229?

Or are you meaning the one seen in Zapruder 285 behind the Brehms?

Considering your words were, and I quote, "The Babushka Women is seen in the place of the Woman in Blue", you must be referring to the person seen behind the Brehms in Zapruder 285 above. And that exact same person can be seen in other films and photos, such as, here,

*And before you try and make a deal out of her not being in the 'exact' same spot - she moved! One step to the left! Better view to take a pic, no doubt!

Anyway, if by some strange thought process you are actually referring to the 'woman (who is actually) in blue' that can be seen in Zapruder frame 229 and then conflating that with being the same position as the Babushka Lady in other pics, then you are so wrong on so many levels as it is totally two different locations. Watch the Zapruder film and you will see that!

5 hours ago, John Butler said:

Here's one for you.  Have you ever seen the face of the Babushka Woman?  There's a woman over on Main St. in Altgens 4 or maybe Altgens 3 that is a good candidate.  But, based on what you see you can't really say that's the Babushka Woman.  Other than that you never see her face.  Curious? 
 

Quick answer to those 4 questions - irrelevant, irrelevant, irrelevant, moot!

 

5 hours ago, John Butler said:

If you go out west to the mountains in a particular western state which I will not name so that tourists don't find it you will find a high sheer mountain face.  Into the face of that mountain cliff is inscribed "Thou Shalt Not See The Face Of The Babushka Woman." 

Well, that's just nonsensical!

Here's a line from a song by the band Embrace - "say what you mean, or you won't mean a thing..."

Regards

[John Butler]

The babushka woman is seen in Marie much more.  The woman in blue is seen in zapruder.  Some say both are bev Oliver.

sorry for the typing

[John Butler]

Alastair,

the first two guys you show are two black guys in z frame 229.  The woman in blue is behind Charles brehm in what you refer to as z frame 285.

 

[Ray Mitcham]

Think "Cinqueitis" is spreading.

[Bill Miller]

On 1/17/2017 at 7:37 AM, John Butler said:

In Elsie Dorman we see human shadows or better representations of human shadows.  In Altgens 6 we see painted objects sloppily done.  The sloppiness of the painted shadows indicates hurriedness.  The shadows are not at the same angle in the photos even though they can’t be more than seconds apart.

The candle flame heads of the shadows can only be painted by a rigger brush or one similar.  A rigger brush is a type of paint brush that has a lot of bristles to hold a lot of paint and it tapers to a fine point.  If you have a steady hand you can paint very fine lines with it or with a little pressure wider lines.  The pointed heads come from lifting the brush slowly as you stop painting or applying the brush gently as you start painting and add more pressure as you progress.

The shadow of Charles Brehm is particularly bad.  I’ve painted thousands of shadows in paintings.  Most were ok, some not.  You can get away with almost anything as long as you point the shadow away from the light source in the right direction.  It’s a cheat in your artwork but, one you usually use to save time.  Besides, people don’t like too much detail in objects.  I have found over the years that you need to leave something for the viewer’s mind to fill in.

The shadows are painted objects.

You error in thinking that the shadows should all be pointing the same direction is in your not applying the curve of the street. The witnesses are all facing the curb, but the curb is at a different angle to the sun at the various witness locations. If you have doubs, then by all means go out on a street that bends - do it on a sunny day - and note how the universe paints your shadow in relation to the curb at various locations in the bend.

Edited January 20, 2017 by Bill Miller

[John Butler]

And, now we come to the first thing I noticed about Altgens 6.  It is something I went looking for with this question “what was reflected on the side of the presidential limousine?”

Here’s the same crop from the last posting:

 

I really don’t know what to make of this reflection.  I can see that it has been edited.  On the front fender something is blacked out with black paint.  Some of the motorcycle policemen are edited out.  There are two long lines of black paint running toward the end of the limousine.  I don’t see what their purpose is.

I can see what appears to be a lamp post with light.  Behind it are possibly cars with headlights on.  There are buildings and room for streets in between buildings.  On the rear fender is a bus, maybe.

This is what I see.  You might see something else.  The problem is none of this should be seen.

If this vehicle is truly at Z frame 255 you should see the grassy area between Elm and Main Street.  You should see the reflecting pool area viewed from the west.

The reflections of a bus on Houston Street can possibly be seen if the vehicle is turning into Elm Street and reflecting whatever is on Houston Street.   

Remember the Law of Reflection, whatever the viewer sees depends on his location in relation to the reflected scene.  The angle of reflection (what the viewer sees) is equal to the angle of incidence (what is being reflected).   

[John Butler]

Hi Ray,

Whose this Ralph Cinque everyone seems to be wanting to tar brush me with.  I've seen the name around but, have no idea what kind of work he does.  Remember, I am a newbie to this kind of forum activity. 

I've only posted on one other site and was not well received.  Oh, just like here with your ad hominem attacks.

Edited January 20, 2017 by John Butler