Is that ... (Gasp) ... Billy Lovelady Talking With Gloria Calvery on the Steps?

[Bill Miller]

4 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

If you accept that the guy on the right has a bald spot, then you must also accept that the guy on the left is wearing a plaid jacket and either is sporting a wild haircut or is wearing a baseball cap backward.

I have posted a photo of Shelley's hair style and have mentioned his thick wave above his forehead. Shelley wore a suit - no ball cap - and testified that he and Lovelady left the stairs together. None of this should be a mystery to those who posted in the 'How tall was Bill Shelley' thread.

As I have said many times now - I did not buy Kamp's assertion at first that the man walking on the extension was Billy Lovelady, but I eventually I came to the conclusion that it was the most probable piece of evidence between it and someone claiming they saw eyes on a washed out face that could not be 15 to 25 steps from the stairs when looking back and seeing Truly and Baker on the landing and moving towards the doorway as Billy testified to.

The artifacts that made lines over the dark suited man were not what caused the plaid shirt design on what looks to be Lovelady. Those lines, if were cased by the same effect, would be uniform in size between the two men - they are not. And as I recall, those lines were on several other people and objects that also were not uniform in size with the plaid shirt.

You may not like my answer, but seeing you asked - I answered you once again.

[Bill Miller]

21 hours ago, Thomas Graves said:

 What is Miller's overall-theory, anyway?

--  Tommy

I have probably written more about what I believe to be true than anyone. Perhaps you were doing something other than reading my responses. Review the threads for everything that was said is archived.  

Still would like to know how the second guy on the steps in Hughes led you to believe he was wearing glasses.  You never responded to that point.  Maybe you missed my mentioning this because of all the dust that was in the air at the time.  

 

Edited March 1, 2017 by Bill Miller

[Sandy Larsen]

2 hours ago, Bill Miller said:

We know I didn't promote the Lovelady shirt buttoning fetish as he moved about on assassination day. I will however make time to go back and quote the culprit so we all know who it was.   

We all know that I was the one who said Lovelady buttoned his shirt in the Martin film.

That's the only time I said he buttoned his shirt. I never said he did in Darnell.

Edited March 1, 2017 by Sandy Larsen

[Bill Miller]

10 hours ago, Thomas Graves said:

Exactly what is it, photographically-speaking, about your so-called "Washed Out Man" on the steps in Couch- Darnell that makes you to say he couldn't possibly be Lovelady?  Too much hair?  Not enough?  Too tall?  Too short?  Wrong gender? Because he wasn't walking down Elm Street Extension with Shelley? 

As I have repeatedly said - the image is too poor to offer the details you have attributed to it. It is ironic that anyone would argue otherwise when there is a woman a few steps down facing west that no one was seeing. There was sunlight shining off the same woman's clothing that was being referred to as an enlarged disjointed arm. The image was so poor that some thought they saw a woman's leg and backside in silhouette near the hand-rail. The image was so poor that there had to be some consideration of another person being between Washout Man and the dark scarfed woman a step or so down from him. So when one uses an image that blurred and washed out - they can consider that its possible that anyone from a little girl to Adlai Stevenson II is this person. After all - they both have eyes - right!   

 

I once chuckled when I heard Jim Marrs address the term 'anything is possible'. Jim replied to someone that it's possible that President Kennedy was killed by a stray bullet fired at a deer from a hunter who was two miles away ........ and then asked if that sounded probable?

In the film the little girl's washed out face was taken from ... there is a man standing over against the TSBD at the extreme right in the photo. His image is slightly better than Washout Man's and it would be reckless in my view to ascertain who that person is from that distance.

 

In the time Washout Man is seen in Darnell ... there are quite a few people who have shown up on the stairs since the shots were fired. To rely on the idea that because Lovelady had been on the stairs earlier, so it must me him is a bit of a stretch to me.

 

Quote

PS  In the two-frame GIF that Sandy provided, the hair on the side of Lovelady's head can be seen in both frames, so how could that be a photographic "blemish" / "artifact"?

 

I don't agree that it is seen in both frames, but then again the artifacts seen on Frazier and Molina's face is seen in both frames and that is not hair on those two men. And in the one frame as I pointed out before ... the artifact has a light colored tone beyond it and none of the good images of Lovelady show him to have a single growth of hair on the side of his head.

Edited March 1, 2017 by Bill Miller

[Alistair Briggs]

1 hour ago, Sandy Larsen said:

That's the only time I said he buttoned his shirt. I never said he did in Darnell.

It's true, Sandy never said that he 'did'...

On 22/02/2017 at 5:47 PM, Sandy Larsen said:

My only reason for making that post was to point out that Lovelady might have buttoned up his shirt before Darnell caught him on film, like he did before Martin caught him on film. For that matter, he could have buttoned up before Darnell regardless of what happened with Martin.

He only said he 'might'.

lol

[Bill Miller]

Larsen statements:

" What I said is that there is film evidence that Lovelady will -- without apparent reason -- button up his shirt. By which I was implying that he may gave done so in Darnell. "

" My only reason for making that post was to point out that Lovelady might have buttoned up his shirt before Darnell caught him on film, like he did before Martin caught him on film. For that matter, he could have buttoned up before Darnell regardless of what happened with Martin. "

 

Edited March 1, 2017 by Bill Miller

[Sandy Larsen]

48 minutes ago, Bill Miller said:

Larsen statements:

" What I said is that there is film evidence that Lovelady will -- without apparent reason -- button up his shirt. By which I was implying that he may [h]ave done so in Darnell. "

" My only reason for making that post was to point out that Lovelady might have buttoned up his shirt before Darnell caught him on film, like he did before Martin caught him on film. For that matter, he could have buttoned up before Darnell regardless of what happened with Martin. "

 

Thanks to you and Alistair for proving me right.

[Bill Miller]

2 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

Thanks to you and Alistair for proving me right.

I don't think it would be possible to prove you right at this point. 

Larsen:  " So you believe that Lovelady left the steps in that 30-second interval between Weigman and Darnell, and was replaced by yet another person who resembles Lovelady, Oswald, and the guy on the sixth floor wearing a white tee shirt. "

Within that 30 second window you speak of .... the population on the steps grew in number despite some people having left the stairway.

 

" That's a lot of Oswald-lookalikes. But what I have a hard time believing is that another guy with a receding hairline just happened to walk onto the steps just as Lovelady left. Within that 30 second window. That's a very unlikely thing to happen IMO. "

Within that 30 second window you speak of .... the population on the steps grew in number despite some people having left the stairway.

 

 

Bill Miller:   I believe the Lovelady and Shelley's statements, ....

Larsen:  Their statements say nothing about walking down Elm Street extension within seconds of the shooting. Which is what the two guys in the Darnell video do.

Mr. BALL - By the time you left the steps had Mr. Truly entered the building?
Mr. LOVELADY - As we left the steps I would say we were at least 15. maybe 25. steps away from the building. I looked back and I saw him and the policeman running into the building.

Looks to me that Darnell shows two men walking on the extension and well on their way to being 15 to 25 steps away as Baker gets to the stairs

Edited March 1, 2017 by Bill Miller

[Sandy Larsen]

14 minutes ago, Bill Miller said:

I don't think it would be possible top prove you right at this point. 

Larsen:  " So you believe that Lovelady left the steps in that 30-second interval between Weigman and Darnell, and was replaced by yet another person who resembles Lovelady, Oswald, and the guy on the sixth floor wearing a white tee shirt. "

Within that 30 second window you speak of .... the population on the steps grew in number despite some people having left the stairway.

 

" That's a lot of Oswald-lookalikes. But what I have a hard time believing is that another guy with a receding hairline just happened to walk onto the steps just as Lovelady left. Within that 30 second window. That's a very unlikely thing to happen IMO. "

Within that 30 second window you speak of .... the population on the steps grew in number despite some people having left the stairway.

But that is not Wiegman... it is Hughes.

And the interval between Darnell and Hughes is much longer than 30 seconds.

 

Edited March 1, 2017 by Sandy Larsen

[Thomas Graves]

5 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said:

But that is not Wiegman... it is Hughes.

And the interval between Darnell and Hughes is much longer than 30 seconds.

 

Sandy,

Atta boy!

--  Tommy 

[Sandy Larsen]

12 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said:

But that is not Wiegman... it is Hughes.

And the interval between Darnell and Hughes is much longer than 30 seconds.

Bill,

In Weigman we see Lovelady standing on the steps. Some 30 seconds later, in Darnell, Lovelady is gone and in his place is Washed Out man. Who just happens to look like Lovelady... at least with regard to his receding hairline. What are the odds of that happening? Very slim.

That is the problem you are facing with your theory/belief.

 

[Thomas Graves]

9 hours ago, Bill Miller said:

I have probably written more about what I believe to be true than anyone. Perhaps you were doing something other than reading my responses. Review the threads for everything that was said is archived.  

Still would like to know how the second guy on the steps in Hughes led you to believe he was wearing glasses.  You never responded to that point.  Maybe you missed my mentioning this because of all the dust that was in the air at the time.  

 

Dear William,

I must admit that I almost never read your posts all the way through for the simple reason that I find them to be not only rather poorly written and poorly sourced (and therefore of limited value), but also consisting of intentional obfuscation (e.g., your making resolution-less certain images, and your substituting the face of a girl for the face of a man in one of those intentionally over-enlarged and therefore resolution-less images, and, well, ... your outright arrogance and bile.

IMHO.

All the best,

--  Tommy

Edited March 1, 2017 by Thomas Graves

[Thomas Graves]

1 hour ago, Sandy Larsen said:

Bill,

In Weigman we see Lovelady standing on the steps. Some 30 seconds later, in Darnell, Lovelady is gone and in his place is Washed Out man. Who just happens to look like Lovelady... at least with regard to his receding hairline. What are the odds of that happening? Very slim.

That is the problem you are facing with your theory/belief.

[Weigman]

 

[Couch - Darnell]

1 hour ago, Sandy Larsen said:

 

And this also from Couch - Darnell.

--  Tommy

Edited March 1, 2017 by Thomas Graves

[Bill Miller]

3 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

But that is not Wiegman... it is Hughes.

And the interval between Darnell and Hughes is much longer than 30 seconds.

I am aware of what film it is, but no one can say they see everyone in Wiegman's film - well you could say it, but it would not make it so.

[Bill Miller]

2 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

Bill,

In Weigman we see Lovelady standing on the steps. Some 30 seconds later, in Darnell, Lovelady is gone and in his place is Washed Out man. Who just happens to look like Lovelady... at least with regard to his receding hairline. What are the odds of that happening? Very slim.

That is the problem you are facing with your theory/belief.

In that 30 seconds that you cite - Calvery ran back to the TSBD - nearly all the woman along Elm were gone from the curb before the limo made it out of the Plaza. The black guy fled the steps and arrived at the Island - two men, if not Lovelady and Shelley, came from somewhere who actually look like Shelley and Lovelady - and the amount of people on the stairs doubled.

That is the problem you are facing with your theory/belief.