Michael Walton Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 13 hours ago, Bernie Laverick said: This is a well worn tactic by Josephs, he just can't stop himself! They dig themselves into a hopeless little hole and then start shouting abuse at anyone who points out how utterly stupid you would have to be to believe any of this facile nonsense. Bernie - a nice post. The only thing Josephs has ever written that I find plausible is his article about how Oswald was not in MC but the official story wants him to be in MC to show he was the mad man who killed Kennedy. IMO, Josephs proved otherwise and we all know that the "Oswalds" in the photos taken down there were NOT LHO. Even Hoover admitted as much to LBJ. Otherwise, Josephs believes just about any conspiracy you put in front of him, then he'll proceed with writing about it in a "scholarly" way along with his crazy topsy-turvey arrows and graphics all over the place, as if THAT proves it further. Now here he is again trying to use the school records to show that two different people named Oswald were in NO and NYC at the same time. Greg Parker, I, and others already debunked that way up above. Of course Larsen will say PROVE IT again...but we already did. It's like another poster here said - one they drink the HL Koolaid, all reason and rational thought is completely thrown out the window. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Larsen Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 18 hours ago, Mathias Baumann said: Tracy, just because Jim's theory about the "Oswald Project" is probably wrong, does not mean that every piece of evidence he presents must necessarily be wrong too Mathias, Why do you say that Jim's theory about the Oswald Project is probably wrong? You seemed to have focused your attention on the "learning Russian language" issue and you have come to conclude that Oswald could not have learned the language as well as he did if the official narrative were true -- that Oswald had no formal lessons. Have you given that much attention and thought to the Oswald Project issue? And to the evidence showing Oswald being in two places at the same time? Because if you have, I don't how you could honestly say what you did. And if you haven't, you aren't in any position to say what you did... certainly not with any authority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Larsen Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 44 minutes ago, W. Tracy Parnell said: As for Parker, he has shown how the records are being misread. Show us how, Tracy. I will pay you $1000 if you show us a reasonable alternative to Oswald's records showing he attended both schools simultaneously. Greg hasn't written much, so It should be easy for you to explain it. Why won't you do it????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Larsen Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 45 minutes ago, Michael Walton said: Now here he is again trying to use the school records to show that two different people named Oswald were in NO and NYC at the same time. Greg Parker, I, and others already debunked that way up above. You did NOT debunk it Walton. If you did, why won't you show your debunking and explain it? What are you afraid of???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Walton Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 34 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said: You did NOT debunk it Walton. If you did, why won't you show your debunking and explain it? What are you afraid of???? I'm not posting it again for you, Sandy. Do a little research and find it. Afraid? Bawahaha - so, so funny! Meanwhile, because this thread is quite frankly getting a little boring, here's a fun "greatest hits" from way back when this thread first started. I had posted an animated GIF showing how one LHO photo looks almost identical to the LHO mug shot. Two others here liked it. Amazingly, Hargrove had previously lined up photos of LHO and had the audacity to include in this line up the photos taken in MC of the people who the government tried to pass on as Oswald - but even Hoover debunked! Unbelievable. He then goes on to "correct" my GIF with: HARGROVE: EDIT: For the purpose of discussing this, Michael, let's say the two images in your gif are of the same person. So what are they? The first image is from the passport Harvey Oswald used for his false defection in 1959. The second is Harvey's arrest photo. John and I had always assumed that Harvey put Lee's photo on his passport application. But if it is actually a picture of Harvey, all that proves is that he used his own photo instead of Lee's. It hardly disproves the Harvey and Lee evidence. See, as one example, my next post. Every single time - without fail - Hargrove then plays Whack-A-Mole, substituting one portion of the HL theory with another portion, literally and continually ramming that round peg into the square hole. He then switches tactics on a later post with "One of my favorites of the HL [nonsense]..." by talking about the "two Oswalds in the Marines on the boat in Japan" portion of the story. Then later, Larsen - one of the few people who had disagreed with my GIF (Hargrove kinda/sorta agrees) - says: LARSEN: But Tracy [I think he meant Hargrove], the two men don't look alike. Side-by-side they look like two different men. [BAAWAAHAHAHAAA!!!] I agree that if you compare eyes alone, they look similar. (One person commented that the eyebrows are the same, and another said they look different, so I don't know about that. I forgot to compare eyebrows when I looked at Mike Walton's transposition of the two.) I agree that the mouths look the same. But overall they look different. I think the only time the two might be confused is when you've seen one, and then see the other at a later date or time. In other words, they sort of look the same. BTW, I found the following from looking at Mike's transposition: Eye, nose, and mouth spacing is very close. The ears on one (Lee, I think) are significantly higher. The chins are different. Lee has a pointed chin, and Harvey has a slight cleft chin that makes it more square at its tip. Though that might disappear if he gained weight. Elsewhere, though, and with nothing to do with HL, I posted another video showing a head flying backward like Kennedy's did at Z 313. He said something like "Mike, this video has merit" or something like that. So....do you see what I'm getting at here? Larsen and Hargrove have truly drunk the HL Koolaid here and no amount of reasoning can convince them otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W. Tracy Parnell Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 2 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said: Show us how, Tracy. I will pay you $1000 if you show us a reasonable alternative to Oswald's records showing he attended both schools simultaneously. Greg hasn't written much, so It should be easy for you to explain it. Why won't you do it????? For the $1000 prize, I submit Greg's explanation-just follow the links. Setup a poll and we'll have the members vote on if he gets the money or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernie Laverick Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 Did 'Harvey' look similar enough to Lee that many people mistook one for the other? Bearing in mind that a huge part of the H&L evidence relies on witnesses saying they saw one while the other was somewhere else, they must have looked very similar if not identical. How did the planners know that this would happen when they were recruited as children? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 4 minutes ago, Bernie Laverick said: Did 'Harvey' look similar enough to Lee that many people mistook one for the other? Bearing in mind that a huge part of the H&L evidence relies on witnesses saying they saw one while the other was somewhere else, they must have looked very similar if not identical. How did the planners know that this would happen when they were recruited as children? Bernie knows full well we've discussed this to death.... The point wasn't that they looked alike (there was no internet, fax machines or video to make side by side comparisons) the point was the man who was sent to Russian have a believable history intertwined with the real Lee Oswald. We truly do no know the origin of Harvey ... all we know is the boy coming back from NYC is not the same boy taken to NYC. When and if you ever have the opportunity to discuss this with a CIA master planner, or someone who understands the inner workings of the planning minds at the CIA/FBI - it would be great to hear their answer. Other than that, I'm not sure how anyone who has never been part of intel/counter-intel planning at that level could provide you an answer.?? The boy pictured on the left entered 7th grade in Sept 1953 at 5'4" and 115lbs... The boy on the right left 8th grade and in Aug 1954 is shorter and lighter... After the 1959 Passport photo, there are no other photos in evidence of Lee Oswald. Lee, on the right, is 5'11 and well over 140 lbs... the man on the left is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernie Laverick Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 "The point wasn't that they looked alike..." So why did so many people mistake 'one' for the 'other'? The photos you've just posted only confirm how creepily similar they were, or even identical...or the same person! Look at them!! "We truly do no know the origin of Harvey..." As if this has anything to do with the question being asked, but it does divert from the impossibility of explaining this part of the fantasy. Apparently to answer the question as to whether 'Harvey' looked similar to 'Lee' one has to consult with someone "who understands the inner workings of the planning minds at the CIA/FBI" Only they are qualified to make that judgement. But surely those who saw 'Lee' whilst 'Harvey' was in Russia were qualified or your theory crumbles. Still any idea where 'Lee' was living while 'Harvey' was in Russia? Anything at all? Steve Gaal used to say, with absolutely no evidence, that he was kept in a CIA safe-house. But seemingly he was occasionally allowed out to go and buy trucks using his real name... Wasn't he also caught doing a bit of fishing in another H&L chapter? This doesn't sound like some highly charged CIA plot to meld two characters from adolescence under the strictest secrecy in order to use one as a patsy in an assassination that hadn't even been planned then. It sounds more like a an episode from The Keystone Cops... H&L = LN Never forget that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathias Baumann Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 3 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said: Mathias, Why do you say that Jim's theory about the Oswald Project is probably wrong? You seemed to have focused your attention on the "learning Russian language" issue and you have come to conclude that Oswald could not have learned the language as well as he did if the official narrative were true -- that Oswald had no formal lessons. Have you given that much attention and thought to the Oswald Project issue? And to the evidence showing Oswald being in two places at the same time? Because if you have, I don't how you could honestly say what you did. And if you haven't, you aren't in any position to say what you did... certainly not with any authority. Sandy, I don't really care if Oswald learned Russian in Hungary or at Monterey Language School. The point is that the fact he did so well in the test points to his involvement in intelligence activities. But there's a very specific reason why I do not believe in the "Oswald Project": I don't think Oswald was all that important to the success of the plot. You and Jim seem to believe that he was indispensible, because he had a doppelganger. But what about the other plots that failed, in Chicago and in Tampa? Were there also two Thomas Vallees and two Gilberto Lopez'? Sure, Oswald made a good patsy because of his involvement with Kostikov. But Lopez had also traveled to Mexico AND Russia. Who knows what kind of evidence would've surfaced about him if the Tampa plot had been successful? Any theory that does not take into account the other plots stands on shaky ground in my opinion, because obviously the plotters did not put all of their eggs in one basket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathias Baumann Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 18 hours ago, W. Tracy Parnell said: Mathias, Any lies Phillips might or might not have told could be explained by the fact that he may have believed he was protecting CIA secrets. We know from the experience with Helms that many "higher-ups" in the CIA considered it their duty to lie if they thought it was necessary to protect the agency. Helms, of course, was convicted of a crime for doing so and considered it a "badge of honor." But I believe that some of Phillips' apparent misstatements may be the result of incompetence. I believe that far from being a superhuman spy as he is often portrayed, Phillips may have been a mere mortal who made mistakes and tried to cover them up as in the case of Alvarado. Tracy, so it was mere incompetence when Phillips changed Duran's testimony from "he never called again" to "she can't remember if he called again"? Phillips' Spanish was fairly good, so "incompetence" is out of the question here. And what about his lie that the tapes of the call had been destroyed before the assassination? Really just incompetence? Or evidence that he was trying to cover up that he'd been involved in the impersonation? And what was CIA counterintelligence trying to cover up BEFORE the assassination when they whithheld crucial parts of Oswald's file from the Mexico City Station? And why was Oswald's file so sensitive that only a handful of the most high ranking officers had access to it? Is that not evidence that the CIA had some sort of "operational interest" in Oswald BEFORE the assassination? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Larsen Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 1 hour ago, W. Tracy Parnell said: For the $1000 prize, I submit Greg's explanation-just follow the links. Setup a poll and we'll have the members vote on if he gets the money or not. Tracy, You don't understand Greg's explanation, do you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Larsen Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 3 hours ago, Michael Walton said: 3 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said: You did NOT debunk it Walton. If you did, why won't you show your debunking and explain it? What are you afraid of???? I'm not posting it again for you, Sandy. Do a little research and find it. Afraid? Bawahaha - so, so funny! Just as I thought... Walton has no debunking and he knows it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 (edited) 53 minutes ago, Bernie Laverick said: "The point wasn't that they looked alike..." So why did so many people mistake 'one' for the 'other'? The photos you've just posted only confirm how creepily similar they were, or even identical...or the same person! Look at them!! "We truly do no know the origin of Harvey..." As if this has anything to do with the question being asked, but it does divert from the impossibility of explaining this part of the fantasy. Apparently to answer the question as to whether 'Harvey' looked similar to 'Lee' one has to consult with someone "who understands the inner workings of the planning minds at the CIA/FBI" Only they are qualified to make that judgement. But surely those who saw 'Lee' whilst 'Harvey' was in Russia were qualified or your theory crumbles. Still any idea where 'Lee' was living while 'Harvey' was in Russia? Anything at all? Steve Gaal used to say, with absolutely no evidence, that he was kept in a CIA safe-house. But seemingly he was occasionally allowed out to go and buy trucks using his real name... Wasn't he also caught doing a bit of fishing in another H&L chapter? This doesn't sound like some highly charged CIA plot to meld two characters from adolescence under the strictest secrecy in order to use one as a patsy in an assassination that hadn't even been planned then. It sounds more like a an episode from The Keystone Cops... H&L = LN Never forget that! So basically your question was both insincere and a setup for you to jump in with an attack on H&L... You're not interested in a discussion or exploration... you simply want others to know what a big brain you got related to your H&L opinions... Your last post here was March 2016... Parker give you your marching orders to come disrupt us here... again? Run along Bernie... your nonsense can be seen coming from miles and miles away Ever actually read the book yet? Edited September 1, 2017 by David Josephs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 (edited) On 9/1/2017 at 10:21 AM, Sandy Larsen said: Tracy, You don't understand Greg's explanation, do you? There's nothing to understand.... He never addresses 200 days within 123... or anything else for that matter... GP deals with Beauregard JHS and the conflict between grade cards and grades given for the FALL 1953 at BJHS and the NYC record (which we continue to prove is a forgery) which has him leaving NYC in Jan 1954. Myra DeRouse is the key witness related to that time period. John Ely attempted to write a bio on Oswald's life: And then Blakey uses the DOD letter and hides the Unit Diaries I post below... He further cannot resolve the DOD's letter claiming Oswald never went to Ping Tung with the rest of his group despite the reports of his activity while in the Philippines Here is the evidence of his leaving for Ping Tung and returning. To accept GP's conclusions which barely account for a fraction of the evidence offered is truly a joke on anyone wasting their time... For his writing to be accepted, H&L must be debunked... he leaves himself no other option... One ought to look into the motivation behind these H&L attacks... To our readers... does any of it sound like a sincere attempt to learn what the evidence says ?? Edited February 12, 2018 by David Josephs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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