A Couple of Real Gems from the "Harvey and Lee" Website

[Michael Walton]

2 hours ago, Mathias Baumann said:

In my personal opinion it is futile to try to find out who the puppet masters were. I'm sure they made certain to leave no traces. But I think some of the people who were directly involved can be identified and it's them we should concentrate on, in my opinion.

Yes, I actually agree with you there. That's one of the more funnier things about this case. "Researchers" here think there was a gaggle of Bad Guys like Hunt and others running around in Dealey risking exposure in film or photos when it was the opposite.  The so-called crime scene was set up on the 6th floor for LHO to take the fall and then it was just a shoot and they're gone elsewhere. They took full advantage of the innocence of the times with everyone smiling and waving. That's why you can't really trust the witness statements - it was boom boom boom and it was over, but thankfully Z recorded it all for posterity, totally contradicting the official record of what happened.

2 hours ago, Mathias Baumann said:

Phillips novel: of course it's fiction, but it's precisely for that reason that I think it would have been a great means for Phillips to tell the truth and ease his conscience without taking too much risk. I think George de Mohrenschild did the same thing when he wrote his book about Oswald. I guess he was also an unwitting party to the framing of Oswald.

Look around on the internet and you'll find some truly horrible things that humans do to each other.  It's truly shocking at least for me it is. But it happens.  Kennedy was hated by many. Humans have ways of letting hatred overcome all reason and compassion for others, so I hardly think the ones who were involved never gave it another thought about blowing his head off or feeling guilty about it afterwards. What they didn't realize is how his death truly changed the course of history for the worst, just Lincoln's assassination xxxxed up Reconstruction after the Civil War ended.

[Sandy Larsen]

On 8/26/2017 at 6:17 AM, Michael Walton said:

OMG this is so, so funny.  So the cold and calculating evidence man:

Does not believe that Lifton's fairy tale of the body being whisked away from the back of Air Force One and onto a helicopter where mad scientists were at the ready with scalpels charged with cutting and cleaving up the body...that's a fairy tale to the cold and calculating evidence man.

 

Actually I do believe Lifton's body alteration theory is mostly correct. The evidence is strong.

 

Quote

Hey, Sandy - you were right all along.  Remember your claim about that pistol that the old guy had on the knoll?  By golly you were right!

I said he was holding something black. And that it might be a gun.

I still believe the same.

 

Edited August 27, 2017 by Sandy Larsen

[Sandy Larsen]

7 hours ago, Jim Hargrove said:

I’m going to spend most of the day out with my kids, so this post will have to be very rushed.  I’d like to thank Mr. Bojczuk for FINALLY going on the record about Greg Parker’s so-called debunking of SOMETHING.  Why don’t you do the same for the school records?

So let’s see about Bolton Ford that you claim Mr. Parker has “debunked.”

On January 20th, 1961, while Russian-speaking Harvey Oswald was in Minsk, a man calling himself “Lee Oswald” and another man visited the Bolton Ford Truck center in New Orleans.  Jim Garrison’s staff interviewed Fred Sewell, who in 1961 managed truck sales at Bolton.  Sewell said, “He represented himself as LEE OSWALD.  He’s the man that spoke up and said, “I’m the man handling the money.  You ought to have my name too.”

But the evidence that this was one of our Oswalds goes far deeper than Sewell’s recollection.  Sewell provided Oswald with a written proposal and the purchaser was listed as "Friends of Democratic Cuba." The Bolton sales order form listed FDC and the name "Oswald."

 

 

And who were among the officers of the “Friends of Democratic Cuba” listed on the Bolton Ford sales order?  None other than W. Guy Banister, who famously interacted with Oswald in New Orleans in 1963, and Gerard Tugague, Oswald’s EMPLOYER in 1956.

Below is a composite scan from the beginning and the end of the Louisiana Articles of Incorporation for Friends of Democratic Cuba, Inc.

 

 

This is a VERY rushed presentation because I have to go out.  But please explain, HERE and in detail, how Greg Parker has “debunked” the Bolton Ford incident.  Looking forward to hearing from you. 

Jim,

Obviously this would be a lot more convincing if the Bolton Ford quote had the name "Lee Oswald" on it.

My take is that, most likely Sewell did remember the name "Oswald" correctly. Because otherwise why would he have connected the "killer" he saw on TV with the person who had shopped that day for automobiles. But what about the name "Lee?" Did he actually recall that, or did he pick that up from the news reports? (I know he says he recalled it... or at least implies so.)

Guy Banister's name on the articles of incorporation is what saves this evidence from being considered useless (due to potential false memory). What should be considered along with this document is the number of adult male Oswalds living in New Orleans at the time. If the number is small (like less than 1% of the population), then odds are pretty good that this Oswald is the one we know was associated with Banister. Of course -- under normal circumstances -- the fact that Oswald was in Russia at the time would mean that the person at Bolton Ford was not Lee Oswald. But when all the other "two Oswalds" evidence is considered, this evidence serves well as supporting evidence.

 

[Michael Walton]

50 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said:

Guy Banister's name on the articles of incorporation is what saves this evidence from being considered useless

Deslatte clearly says in the FBI report that he could not recognize Oswald when shown a photo of him days after the assassination. I mean think about it - the Oswald in DPD has had his photo plastered across the news worldwide. The truck incident happened over two years previously. Even if there had been a resemblance (according to the clone nonsense, this clone had to look almost exactly like the real Oswald), you'd think this would have jogged Deslatte's memory.  Nope, not a one bit.

As for Bannister being on the company papers, big deal. We all know that our man Oswald was associated with Bannister when he stupidly stamped Camp Street on his FPFCC cards (Bannister scolded him and told him not to do it any more).

So how in the world has Jim(John) and accolyte Larsen projected this incident to a fairy tale clone of Oswald that goes all the way back to 1953? It's ridiculous.

And I wish Jim(John) would stop saying that Jeremy is relying on Parker or Parker is relying on others for his answers and so on.  Jim(John) - we're ALL doing that on both sides. Sigh...

[Jim Hargrove]

More About Bolton Ford

As we’ll see immediately below, by 12/19/63 the FBI had already confirmed through a third source that “Lee Harvey Oswald” said he “was trying to get trucks for Cuba” and that Oswald had contacted Bolton Ford assistant truck manager Oscar W. Deslatte, who worked directly below truck manager Fred Sewell.  The FBI apparently tried to bury the Bolton Ford incident, but none of its members, including J. Edgar Hoover, could have predicted that Fred Sewell would be interviewed by James Alcock and Jim Garrison on May 2, 1967.

Sewell told Garrison and Alcock that he believed that one of the two men who visited the Bolton dealership in 1961 had used the name “Lee Oswald.”  Sewell then described what happened immediately after the assassination of JFK: “So when the President was assassinated and the name came out, OSCAR come in either the next morning or the morning after and said, ‘Say, Fred, do you remember those two guys who was in here from Cuba trying to get some buses cheap?’ and I said, ‘Yes.’  He said, ‘I think that one of those men was the one who killed the President.’ I said, ‘Aw your kidding’ and he said ‘We’ve got a piece of paper around here somewhere with a bid on it.’ He went and hauled that piece of paper out and the[n] OSCAR called the FBI.”

 

Sewell went on to describe how two young FBI agents came to the dealership and collected the bid that contained the name “Oswald” and “Friends of Democratic Cuba.”  “They took two pieces of plastic and they scooped it up between it and they said have you touched this and we said, well, I guess so.”   Sewell said repeatedly they they weren’t shown any pictures of Oswald by the FBI agents, but that the agents informed them that “OSWALD wasn’t even in the country at that time.  He couldn’t be.”

Sewell went on to say that the Oswald he saw at the Bolton dealership “appears to be the same man” he saw on television after the President was shot.

 

By Dec. 19, 1963, the SAC in New Orleans was already confirming directly to J. Edgar Hoover himself that a man named Charles Pearson, who was office manager at Graham Paper Company, had stated that his friend Oscar W. Deslatte, assistant manager of truck sales at Bolton Ford, had been contacted by Oswald about buying trucks.  Worse yet, the whole process of investigating the incident was prompted by a phone call from none other than Carlos Bringieur, the man who pretended to fight and then debate on the radio with “Lee Harvey Oswald” in August 1963 in New Orleans.

 

[Mathias Baumann]

3 hours ago, Jim Hargrove said:

More About Bolton Ford

As we’ll see immediately below, by 12/19/63 the FBI had already confirmed through a third source that “Lee Harvey Oswald” said he “was trying to get trucks for Cuba” and that Oswald had contacted Bolton Ford assistant truck manager Oscar W. Deslatte, who worked directly below truck manager Fred Sewell.  The FBI apparently tried to bury the Bolton Ford incident, but none of its members, including J. Edgar Hoover, could have predicted that Fred Sewell would be interviewed by James Alcock and Jim Garrison on May 2, 1967.

Sewell told Garrison and Alcock that he believed that one of the two men who visited the Bolton dealership in 1961 had used the name “Lee Oswald.”  Sewell then described what happened immediately after the assassination of JFK: “So when the President was assassinated and the name came out, OSCAR come in either the next morning or the morning after and said, ‘Say, Fred, do you remember those two guys who was in here from Cuba trying to get some buses cheap?’ and I said, ‘Yes.’  He said, ‘I think that one of those men was the one who killed the President.’ I said, ‘Aw your kidding’ and he said ‘We’ve got a piece of paper around here somewhere with a bid on it.’ He went and hauled that piece of paper out and the[n] OSCAR called the FBI.”

 

Sewell went on to describe how two young FBI agents came to the dealership and collected the bid that contained the name “Oswald” and “Friends of Democratic Cuba.”  “They took two pieces of plastic and they scooped it up between it and they said have you touched this and we said, well, I guess so.”   Sewell said repeatedly they they weren’t shown any pictures of Oswald by the FBI agents, but that the agents informed them that “OSWALD wasn’t even in the country at that time.  He couldn’t be.”

Sewell went on to say that the Oswald he saw at the Bolton dealership “appears to be the same man” he saw on television after the President was shot.

 

By Dec. 19, 1963, the SAC in New Orleans was already confirming directly to J. Edgar Hoover himself that a man named Charles Pearson, who was office manager at Graham Paper Company, had stated that his friend Oscar W. Deslatte, assistant manager of truck sales at Bolton Ford, had been contacted by Oswald about buying trucks.  Worse yet, the whole process of investigating the incident was prompted by a phone call from none other than Carlos Bringieur, the man who pretended to fight and then debate on the radio with “Lee Harvey Oswald” in August 1963 in New Orleans.

 

If I remember correctly the other man was described as an athletic Latino who had a scar over his left eye. Could this have been David Morales?

Kerry Thornley lived in New Orleans at that time. And he knew that Oswald was in Russia. Was he impersonating Oswald?

 

Edited August 27, 2017 by Mathias Baumann

[Sandy Larsen]

20 hours ago, Michael Walton said:

21 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

Guy Banister's name on the articles of incorporation is what saves this evidence from being considered useless

Deslatte clearly says in the FBI report that he could not recognize Oswald when shown a photo of him days after the assassination.

Yes, which supports the theory of two Oswalds. We know that HARVEY was still in the Soviet Union at the time. Deslatte would have seen Lee.

 

[Sandy Larsen]

20 hours ago, Michael Walton said:

.... this clone had to look almost exactly like the real Oswald....

I don't believe Harvey and Lee looked nearly identical. I believe they looked similar.

EDIT: Though apparently Sewell thought they looked the same, as Jim has pointed out.

 

Edited August 27, 2017 by Sandy Larsen

[Sandy Larsen]

7 hours ago, Jim Hargrove said:

.... the whole process of investigating the incident was prompted by a phone call from none other than Carlos Bringieur, the man who pretended to fight and then debate on the radio with “Lee Harvey Oswald” in August 1963 in New Orleans.

LOL, an Oswald connected to both Guy Banister AND Carlos Bringieur!  Bingo!

This bumps the odds up considerably that their Oswald is the same as one of our Oswalds. IOW Lee because Harvey was in the Soviet Union at the time.

 

[Sandy Larsen]

4 hours ago, Mathias Baumann said:

If I remember correctly the other man was described as an athletic Latino who had a scar over his left eye.

Yes, that's right.

 

4 hours ago, Mathias Baumann said:

Could this have been David Morales?

I believe it was Morales. But if so he must have been speaking with an accent (which was described as being Cuban). I believe it was Tommy Graves who told me that Morales was known for using accents or disguises... I forget which.

 

[Jim Hargrove]

7 hours ago, Mathias Baumann said:

If I remember correctly the other man was described as an athletic Latino who had a scar over his left eye. Could this have been David Morales?

Kerry Thornley lived in New Orleans at that time. And he knew that Oswald was in Russia. Was he impersonating Oswald?

 

I've been wondering if "Joseph Moore" was really Morales since the day I read about the scar over his eye.  Assuming I've read all the original source material that exists about the Bolton Ford incident, there may not be many more research angles to look at attempting to answer that question.

Do you know how tall Morales was?  Do you know of anyone else even vaguely associated with Kennedy assassination research who had a scar over his left eye?

Considering the wealth of biographical material JA has assembled on the American-born Oswald, I don't believe much of this can be explained by a simple impersonation, by Kerry Thornley or anyone else (Larry Crafard is often mentioned in this context as well).  Your mileage may vary, of course.

[Jim Hargrove]

4 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

LOL, an Oswald connected to both Guy Banister AND Carlos Bringieur!  Bingo!

This bumps the odds up considerably that their Oswald is the same as one of our Oswalds. IOW Lee because Harvey was in the Soviet Union at the time.

Another tell is that this Oswald was active in anti-Castro paramilitary operations in New Orleans and Florida when the other Oswald was demostrably somewhere else, usually the USSR.  In addition to Deslatte and Sewell, there was Valentine Ashworth, a pilot affiliated with the "Cuban Raider Command," who roomed with Lee Oswald in 1959 when both men were trying to join a Cuban exile group, as well as people who saw Lee Oswald in and around Cuban training camps near Lake Ponchartrain, including Mrs. Gladys Davis, Martinez Malo, and most famously, Marita Lorenz.

Yet another witness was James Spencer, a car salesman who worked at the Dumas Milner Chevrolet dealership in New Orleans.  Spencer told the FBI that [while Harvey was in the USSR] he met with Lee Oswald twice, and that Oswald seemed interested in talking about Cuba. He wrote "Lee Oswald" on the back of his business card in 1961 and was able to locate it after the assassination.

How many Oswalds can we expect to find in and around New Orleans who were active in anti-Castro operations AND associated with Guy Banister, Gerard Tugague, and Carlos Bringuier?  I think most people would agree that any more than two is really stretching it! <g>

[W. Tracy Parnell]

Of course, all of the "information" Spencer provided to the FBI was in the media by the time he made his claims to the FBI. And he could have written "Lee Oswald" on an old card anytime after the assassination. Spencer was unemployed at the time and hoped to write an article and get it published on his "experience" with LHO. Spencer also told the FBI that he didn't think his information "would be of any significance" to the government. But Jim is happy to accept this report. In fact, he has to accept every dubious report out there to "prove" the H&L theory.

[Jim Hargrove]

1 hour ago, W. Tracy Parnell said:

But Jim is happy to accept this report. In fact, he has to accept every dubious report out there ....

and blah-blah-blah.

I've been posting online about the Kennedy assassination and John Armstrong's work for almost twenty years now.  You wouldn't believe how many personal attacks I've had to ignore. Mr. Parnell is really one of the milder of the character assassins, but he is one nevertheless.

[W. Tracy Parnell]

57 minutes ago, Jim Hargrove said:

and blah-blah-blah.

I've been posting online about the Kennedy assassination and John Armstrong's work for almost twenty years now.  You wouldn't believe how many personal attacks I've had to ignore. Mr. Parnell is really one of the milder of the character assassins, but he is one nevertheless.

It's not character assassination to point out that someone accepts dubious reports. I am aware that you are a knowledgeable researcher and a fine person I am sure. But did you ever try this. Take all (and I mean all) of the reports of LHO being somewhere he couldn't be. Then chart them out and see what you have. You would certainly find reports that did not fit the lone assassin theory OR the H&L theory. You would then be left with the conclusion that some people make false reports for whatever reason. What reports do you then choose to believe? Answer-the ones that you feel support H&L.