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Was George de Mohrenschildt a Long-Term KGB "Illegal"?


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According Richard Russell, CI/SIG officer Clare Edward Petty told him there were some Venona intercepts that indicated to Petty that GdM might have been a Ruskie spy.
 

"Clare Petty, a former official on Angleton's staff, told me that shortly before his CIA retirement in 1974, he was examining a potential de Mohrenschildt link to some Soviet cipher traffic first intercepted by American intelligence in World War II. Known as the VENONA material, 'it Was only partially broken,' according to Petty, including lots of agent cryptonyms that we never found out to whom they applied. I had started to consider the possibility of whether a certain Soviet illegal might have been de Mohrenschildt. It was clear that whoever was being described in the codes had been in the United States, went to Mexico during he war, and was a real wheeler-dealer. He also had another nationality; my recollection is that it was Polish.'"
 

--The Man Who Knew Too Much,  Dick Russell pp. 273



Let's see, the KGB agent ...

1 )  Was from Poland, or some other northern Slavic country
2 )  Was in the U.S. before WW II
3 )  Went to Mexico during WW II
4 )  Was a real wheeler-dealer
  
Hmm ...

1 ) George "von" Mohrenschildt was born in Mazyr, Belarus, about 300 miles east of the Polish border
2 )  He immigrated to the U.S. in May, 1938.
3 )  He and his girlfriend, Lilia Larin, lived in Mexico for several months in 1942, and then returned to the U.S.
4 )  He was a wheeler-dealer. (Insurance Salesman, His Own Art Work, Sugar Speculator, Oil Speculator, Film Producer ...)  



--  Tommy  :sun

P.S. Does anyone know how to access the decoded intercepts, themselves?  Have they been released? 

Edited by Thomas Graves
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Everyone knows that due to his long career that DeM worked for many different intel agencies.  He was even suspected or working for the Germans.

 

I would think that what we would be concerned about here is what he was doing in the sixties. Its pretty clear from the available evidence from what DeM told Epstein, from Mellen's book, from his visits with Matlack and the CIA in 1963 that the Baron was working with the Agency when he knocked on the Oswald's door.  He actually said that he would never in a million years have done any such thing unless Moore told him to.  And when you add in the facts that Moore provably lied about their association, its pretty incriminating.

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Thanks, Robin!

I hope to find the intercepts Petty apparently told Russell about, and then try to "analyze" them from a Tennent H. Bagley / Sergei Kondrashev point-of-view and knowledge base (and maybe even a little Mitrokhin Archives, too) as regards the people said KGB agent was colluding with and / or working against through the years.

--  Tommy  :sun

Edited by Thomas Graves
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45 minutes ago, Ron Bulman said:

So is the pregnant six million dollar (man) question, who told Moore to tell De Morenschild to knock on Oswald's door?

Huh?

So is ... .

or 

So, is ... ?

Hmm

Or, who told somebody to say that somebody said that somebody said that?

Edited by Thomas Graves
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1 hour ago, Rich Pope said:

Thomas,

If you read Joseph McBride's book, "Into the Nightmare" you will see on pages 221 and 222 that GDM and the Paine's were the handler's for the Oswald's.  What books have you written Thomas?  Please, let me know so I can purchase them and read them.  

Thanks in advance.

Rich(ard?),

Is writing a book about the assassination of JFK something that determines whether or not a person has a significant amount of knowledge about the subject, AND is able to communicate it in an unbiased manner?

Anyone can write a book. Especially about the JFK assassination. (Few established facts required; spinning, weaving, and fabricating strongly encouraged.)

-- Tommy (aka Tom; Thomas) :sun

PS --  Welcome to the Forum!

Edited by Thomas Graves
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Now I'm really bummed.  Tommy didn't welcome me to the forum.  After I've found many of his posts thought provoking, if sometimes perplexing for years before joining.  After all, based on number of posts he may be the Elder statesman here.  I was wondering if maybe he retired or feared something worse might have happened.  I've thought of trying to write a book if I can ever afford to retire, so many have, some of them useful.  But I need to work on my spinning, weaving, fabricating, dipping and diving.

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6 minutes ago, Ron Bulman said:

Now I'm really bummed.  Tommy didn't welcome me to the forum.  After I've found many of his posts thought provoking, if sometimes perplexing for years before joining.  After all, based on number of posts he may be the Elder statesman here.  I was wondering if maybe he retired or feared something worse might have happened.  I've thought of trying to write a book if I can ever afford to retire, so many have, some of them useful.  But I need to work on my spinning, weaving, fabricating, dipping and diving.

I'm so sorry, Ron.  I thought we'd communicated with each other, via posts, before I took my "vacation."

My bad.

 

Welcome!

--  Tommy :sun

PS -- Have anything else to say about the subject of this thread?

Edited by Thomas Graves
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8 hours ago, Rich Pope said:

Thomas,

You're right!  A person doesn't have to write a book to prove what they know.   This forum is a rough place at times, if you present something and try to back it up with facts and sources, people still hammer you to death because they disagree with you.  I would be interested in knowing what your thoughts are about something.

On the day of the assassination when Lee Bowers, whom I consider to be the best witness to multiple shooters in Dallas, as he had a bird's eye view of Dealey Plaza from a high spot looking down toward the grassy knoll, reported seeing one" middle-aged" man who was "fairly heavyset" wearing a white shirt and dark trousers.  Bowers also reported seeing a man in his "mid-twenties" wearing either a plaid shirt or plaid coat.  These men were the only two strangers in the area.

Do you have an opinion as to who these two men might have been?

Rich

I don't think it was Igor or an associate.  No idea of a physical description of Soutre or Mertz or how they dressed, RE Corsicans, Harvey,  Angleton, Dulles.  Reasonable speculation with some backup others have pursued.  But if Mr. T suspects Igor it should be considered.  Though this is Not what he started the thread about, and I suspect was not what the Igor reference was about.  I can't remember, was it Mertz or Soutre who was deported secretly from Dallas on 11/22 or 11/23/63?

Edited by Ron Bulman
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9 minutes ago, Rich Pope said:

Thomas,

Please forgive me.  I don't know who Soutre or Metz are.  I don't know who Mr. T is and I don't know who Igor is.  Could you help me out with this?

 

Rich

Thanks for responding to my post Rich.  Mr. T is Thomas, also the star of a 70's-80's action show.   For the sake of history for as I remember reading about it...

Soutre/Mertz were an individual or one in the same persons possibly previously involved in assassination attempts on French president De Gaulle.  Some speculate he was a shooter from the grassy knoll.  Recruited through the Corsican Mob by Bill Harvey, possibly with possibly approval by James Angleton and maybe Allen Dulles.

One of them was reportedly deported to an unknown location from Dallas on 11/22/63 or Fort Worth on 11/23/63.

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2 hours ago, Rich Pope said:

Thomas,

Please forgive me.  I don't know who Soutre or Metz are.  I don't know who Mr. T is and I don't know who Igor is.  Could you help me out with this?

 

Rich

But, with all due respect, I thought you'd written a book?

--  Tommy  :sun

Edited by Thomas Graves
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Do I think it's possible that Lucien Sarti shot at JFK from behind the Grassy Knoll Fence?

Yes, I suppose that it's possible.

But there are several other threads on this forum that deal with Sarti one way or another, and this particular thread is about the possibility that George de Mohrenschildt was a long term KGB "illegal" in the U.S.

Good luck with your research!

--  Tommy  :sun

Edited by Thomas Graves
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