Secret Service agents Clint Hill and Paul Landis both do not believe the single bullet theory!

Vince Palamara · July 30, 2018

Secret Service agents Clint Hill and Paul Landis both do not believe the single bullet theory!

From Hill's last book Five Presiden (2016): it seems everyone missed this crucial detail, perhaps because they were burned out on reading his FOURTH account of the assassination (his three books plus his contribution to The Kennedy Detail). This was duly noted in my third book from 2017.

Paul Landis ALSO does not believe the single bullet theory-CLICK ON IMAGE TO ENLARGE:

https://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2016/11/shaker_heights_man_guarding_jfk_witnes.html

Landis, then and now. Unfortunately, although Landis does not believe the single bullet theory, he apparently has waffled on his initial impression of one of the shots coming from the front, as he conveyed to Blaine in THE KENNEDY DETAIL that he was "mistaken"...

...excuse me while I puke. Very lame. Why? Because Landis wrote this in TWO reports and he VERIFIED their veracity to the HSCA in a footnote buried in their final report! Read on...

No automatic alt text available.

From page 606 of the HSCA Final Report...I WONDER IF LANDIS WAS STILL "TRAUMITIZED", BLAINE?

Landis' 11/30/63 report.

Landis 11/27/63 report. CLICK ON IMAGE TO ENLARGE

Not you, too, Greer? Say it ain't so (2/28/78 HSCA INTERVIEW):

John Butler · July 30, 2018

Special Agents Clint Hill and Paul Landis do not believe the SBT. Fine. Most people don’t when they take a look at it.

This is a very controversial post by Vince Palamara. And, it is far more complicated than just the notion of the denial of the SBT. There are other bombshells, as they like to say on TV, there. Bombshells the Warren Commission did not want to hear. SA Landis said the Warren Commission did not ask him to testify and he wondered why? The answer is simple. He was saying things that deny not only the SBT but, many of the things the Warren Commission wanted to put out as how the assassination occurred.

Just as example, how many shots did he hear, what was there sequence, and where was he at when he heard those shots? If you look at his answers he is completely denying evidence such as Altgens 6, Altgens 7, Mary Moorman’s Polaroid, and many of the assassination films which the foremost is the Zapruder film.

SA Landis’ version of the assassination he puts forward on the 27^th and 30^th of November, 1963 does not match any of the above’s portrayal of how the assassination occurred.

John Butler · July 31, 2018

Let’s take the first question one bit at a time. How many shots did SA Landis hear. He heard two. There are other witnesses that heard 2 shots. Chief in mind is Bonnie Ray Williams. Williams also heard two shots before his testimony began evolving. Part of Williams evolving testimony agrees with SA Landis on two points. One of these is an agreement on the number of shots. The second is where the limousine was when he heard those shots.

The second part of the question was what was the sequence of shots. SA Landis said there were two with a pause between them of about 4 or 5 seconds. The second shot was the head shot. Many different witnesses have said varying things. Most agree there were 3 shots with a sequence of firing with the same interval between shots. Or, the interval was 1 shot, a short pause, then 2 more shots.

Jean Hill said she heard 4 to 6 shots. Mary Moorman said the first shot was the head shot and later firing occurred. Linda Willis said she heard three and Rosemary heard 4 or more. She said the 4^th shot was the head shot. Most agree there was either no pause between shots or there was one between shots. No one agrees with SA Landis on the 4 or 5 second gap between shots.

The third part of the earlier question was where was the President at when SA Landis heard shots. This is the most important question when it comes to dealing with gunshots in Dealey Plaza. It is a question that was never asked until recently.

Most researchers consider where the shots came from as the most important question. It is really not the most important question about shooting in Dealey Plaza. The direction a distant shot came from is almost never localized to a place but, is generally described as coming from a single, wide direction at best. SA Landis said "My reaction at this time was that the shot came from the front, but I didn't see anyone on the overpass". There will be more about this later.

Dealey Plaza further complicates things with echoes and sound distortions. Far more relevant is where was the presidential limousine when the witness heard shooting.

SA Landis said that the presidential limousine had just turned into the intersection of Houston and Elm Street and was just straightening from the turn in front of the TSBD when he heard the first shot. And, a 4 or 5 second pause, at 18 feet per second and the TSBD being 100 feet long, for the second shot, the head shot would put the presidential limousine at the SW corner of the TSBD or under the trees approaching the SW corner. This is where the head shot occurred according to SA Landis. This is a shot that Lee Harvey Oswald could not make for trees blocking the view or, not enough time to aim as the vehicle came out from under the trees there. This is why the Agent Landis was not called before the Warren Commission.

A good visual for this location maybe the infamous "hit-x" frame in the Tina Towner film. The Towner film has a frame showing the presidential limousine in front of the TSBD's doorway. This is the frame with "hit-x" written on it.

SA Landis’ testimony agrees with about 40 plus witnesses who say the shooting took place in front of the TSBD. Agent Landis’ description of the “modernistic building” apparently matches the TSBD. But, not quite. He seemed to be confused from switching from the intersection of Main and Houston to the intersection of Houston and Elm where the TSBD is. Maybe some one rewrote that for him so that at least he would be in the right ball park.

It is at least confusing. It seems as if he is speaking about turning from Main onto Houston and with no transition making the turn to the left onto Elm Street.

Edited July 31, 2018 by John Butler

Joe Bauer · July 31, 2018

So, as seen on the first page you posted:

"The commission finds that the agents most immediately responsible for the President's safety reacted promptly at the time the shots were fired..." ???

Really?

Let's look at the reality of these agents reaction relative to the shots which were loud and close by the agents and their car.

The first shot is heard.

No agents out of ten left the Queen Mary after the first shot.

Some turned around or just looked around.

Wouldn't you expect that at least one or two agents would have instinctively jumped off the SS car and ran to the rear guard steps of JFK's limo immediately after hearing something that loud and gun shot resembling?

Then, seconds later another loud boom shot. Still not one agent leaves that car until Hill notices JFK's head moving unnaturally to the left toward Jackie. Hill then leaps into the street and sprints to the rear of the presidents limo...but just Hill...no one else jumps off the SS car to run to the limo even after they see Hill doing this?

Then JFK's head explodes from a 3rd shot just before Hill reaches the limo.

Still, after 3 loud rifle shots, only Hill has left the Queen Mary?

In the face of this outrageous 3 loud rifle shot frozen-in-place follow up car non-response reality, the commission states in their final finding that "The agents (plural) most immediately responsible for the president's safety reacted promptly ..." Including Roy Kellerman in the presidential limo itself?

Unlike Kellerman, Rufus Youngblood did his trained and required body shield risking security duty that day.

Overall JFK's SS response was in reality the opposite of the Warren Commission's glowing assessment...imo.

Edited July 31, 2018 by Joe Bauer

Vince Palamara · August 1, 2018

President Kennedy: the bubble top and all security issues dissected 1961-1963

click on images to enlarge

First things first: it is important to remember that President Kennedy did not have hundreds of motorcades during his 1000 or so days in offer- it was a finite number (from the JFK Library):

When the President visited military bases or traveled in motorcades in Washington, D.C., there was hardly any overt protection noticeable, such as motorcycles flanking the car, agents on or near the rear of the limousine, or a full bubbletop, unless during certain weather conditions, with a few notable exceptions when a display of force was demonstrated. This was because the Secret Service and the President were on very friendly, well-traveled grounds. On military bases, our troops, in conjunction with the Secret Service, provide the best-case scenario for protection. In the Capital, the Secret Service checks all the buildings along the route, and armed guards are posted along the path the President’s car will take. In addition, manholes are checked and sealed. For example, during JFK’s Inaugural Parade held on 1/20/61, “A complete survey of all buildings, water mains, sewers and underground conduits and other facilities along the parade route [was] made prior to the departure of the President from the White House to the Capitol.”

It should also be noted that when JFK was a candidate for the Presidency in 1960 the Secret Service did not protect candidates. Sadly, this did not become policy until immediately after the murder of his brother Robert. For his part, V.P. Nixon already had Secret Service protection on the campaign trail in 1960. That said, Senator Kennedy’s motorcades were often surrounded by many motorcycles and press photographers:

JFK and LBJ together in Dallas (on Main Street) 9/11/60! The next time they would ride together in a motorcade: 11/22/63, Dallas!

Sunday 30th June, 1963. Forest Row, East Sussex. Visiting Harold Macmillan

Ireland, June 1963-Agent Bert De Freese on rear of limo; partial bubbletop; good motorcycle formation; press photographers flatbed truck in front of limo:

From my third book The Not-So-Secret Service: Death threats preceded JFK’s 1963 Ireland visit: “Police, newspaper received warnings months before president’s killing. “The documents indicated that 6,404 police officers were on duty throughout Ireland the night Kennedy arrived, of whom 2,690 lined the U.S. president’s route from Dublin airport to the Phoenix Park mansion of Irish President Eamon de Valera. “Costigan wrote that, although the death threats were considered likely to be hoaxes, his officers would use binoculars to monitor rooftops along the route of the presidential motorcade. He said some police would carry firearms, an exceptional measure in a country with a largely unarmed police force, to engage any would-be sniper. “A rifle as well as Thompson guns and revolvers were carried for use against a possible sniper,” Costigan wrote in a post-Kennedy visit memorandum released Friday

Milwaukee, WI May 12 1962:

9/27/62 West Virginia:

Philadelphia, PA trip 10/30/63

Washington, D.C. 9/6/63---MILITARY AIDE, ASAIC BORING, military lining street:

Washington, D.C. 3/27/63--MILITARY AIDE, SAIC BEHN, military lining street, essentially THREE follow-up cars:

Atlantic Fleet April 1962:

9/5/63 Washington, D.C.

10/20/62 Chicago, IL (possibly cold or rainy):

9/24/63 Madison, WI:

Battery Park, NY 5/23/63:

6/5/62 Washington, D.C.:

Bogota, Columbia 12/17/61:

Caracas, Venezuela 12/16/61:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUUcK6G7U_w

San Juan, Puerto Rico 12/15/61:

Washington, D.C. 3/20/62:

Washington, D.C. 9/19/61:

New York, NY 11/8/63:

Washington, D.C. 7/11/61:

Washington, D.C. 2/20/63:

Washington, D.C. 4/11/62 (JFK and Jackie in different bubbletop vehicles):

11/22/63 at Parkland- too late:

1961:

North Carolina, 10/12/61:

Washington, D.C. 6/15/61-debut:

Arlington, VA 6/12/62 (this one doesn't "count"- drizzle):

JFK using the Ike bubbletop at the very start 1/20/61:

California, 3/23/62:

New York, 5/19/62:

Germany, 6/26/63- Many flanking motorcycles in a wedge formation; SAIC Behn on trip; military aide in front seat; agents in good number near limo; bubbletop at times; military lining street; live television feed; PHOTOGRAPHERS IN FRONT OF LIMO; buildings guarded:

Duluth, MN 9/25/63 (this one doesn't "count" because it was raining at night):

HOWEVER- regarding the same Duluth, MN trip: Researcher Chad Carlson wrote to me regarding this very same trip: “I am friends with a man here who was in charge of JFK’s trip to Duluth, MN here in September of 1963. I ask him a lot about JFK. He got to talk oneon-one with the President for 30 minutes before he made his rounds and speeches. His name is Larry Yetka, former Minnesota Supreme Court justice. Larry said that he wondered what [Mafia boss] Sam Giancana of Chicago was up to on 11-22-63. I told him that I had been watching the motorcade in Dallas on 11-22-63 and told him it looked very “lax.” He said, “Yes it was.” So I asked him how was security in Duluth in Sept.1963? He said, “Tight as hell-men were on the rooftops even.”

Billings, MT September 1963:

Building rooftops were guarded---This was confirmed by researcher Deb Galentine’s assistant police chief father who worked on the security for this trip, as conveyed to the author on 2/17/14. Deb further wrote: “Weeks before JFK’s arrival, my father, who would be in charge of the local police protection, met with Billings’ leaders and some of President Kennedy’s advance people. JFK’s planners wanted the fastest, safest routes possible. They desired routes with no tall buildings and hoped to avoid Billings’ Rimrocks as well. The Rimrocks, a natural sandstone formation riddled with caves, paths, and ledges and dotted with pine trees and shrubs, unevenly jut about 500 feet above the city of Billings. Avoiding them would be impossible since Billings’ airport lies perched atop them. Three separate routes were available from the airport to the President’s venue, and the planners decided to use the one that provided the safest and fastest passage away from the Rimrocks.”

New Mexico, 12/7/62:

Washington, D.C. 1961:

UNKNOWN (shown on DVD JFK: The Final Hours):

See also:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KRXGHJwp2I

Buildings WERE regularly guarded during the FDR, Truman, Ike and (yes) the JFK era before the assassination but NOT in Dallas:

1957-era security for President Eisenhower and Queen Elizabeth...if only JFK and Jackie would have received this kind of protection 6 years later:

Also Ike era:

San Diego, CA 6/6/63-countless Marines lined on each side of the street 5-6 feet apart FACING THE CROWD, SAIC Behn on the trip (riding in the front seat) and TWO FLATBED TRUCKS TAKING STILL PHOTOS, MOTION PICTURES, AND A LIVE TELEVISION FEED! Building rooftops were also guarded:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2xDQ0IZOOM

Philadelphia, PA 10/62-arrows point our 4 cyclists on each wheel PLUS row of motorcycles near follow-up car, police lining street and facing crowd:

Seattle 11/16/61---buildings were guarded; police mingled within crowds; military lined street; press photographers close by; agents by limo; SAIC Gerald Behn in front passenger seat:

Buffalo, NY 10/14/62:

Indianapolis, IN 10/13/62-Secret Service agents, Dick Johnsen, Ron Pontius, Bob Lilley, and Frank Yeager, surround car:

Springfield, IL 10/19/62:

Chicago, IL 3/23/63---Col. George J. McNally, White House Signal Corps and former Secret Service agent, wrote in his book: “But during the Chicago visit [3/23/63], the motorcade was slowed to the pace of a mounted Black Horse Troop, and the police got a warning of Puerto Rican snipers. Helicopters searched the roofs along the way, and no incidents occurred.” [A Million Miles of Presidents, p. 204] Agent Don Lawton rode on the rear of the limousine and six motorcycles bracketed the vehicle:

Nashville, TN 5/18/63---SAIC of the Nashville office (and former JFK WHD agent) Paul Doster told the Nashville Banner on 5/18/63 that “a complete check of the entire motorcade route” was done for JFK’s trip to Nashville. In addition, Doster stated, “Other [police] officers were assigned atop the municipal terminal and other buildings along the route. These men took their posts at 8 a.m. and remained at their rooftop stations until the president and his party passed.” A helicopter was used on the route, as well:

[note: this is the later edition of the newspaper quoted above]

UPDATE: The 2013 book from the Nashville Tennessean JFK IN NASHVILLE provides the corroboration/ text in question and more:

Canada 1961:

New Orleans 1962:

Cleveland, OH 10/19/62:

Pittsburgh, PA 10/13/62:

Washington, D.C. April 1961-Police on the roof of building overlooking a JFK motorcade, while both police and military lined the streets, common security measures used before Dallas, yet only a small number of police lined the streets in Dallas, did not face the crowd, with no military lining the streets and no men guarding rooftops:

10/1/63--- THE VIEW FROM THE PRESS PHOTOGRAPHERS FLATBED TRUCK IN FRONT; 2 follow-up cars; military and police line street; SAIC Behn and military aide:

Hawaii 6/9/63--press photographers in front of limo, as usual, and press bus not far behind; agents surround limousine:

Florida trip 11/16-11/18/63 (Palm Beach, Cape Canaveral, Miami, Tampa):

11/18/63--PRS AGENT GLEN BENNETT ON FLORIDA AND TEXAS TRIPS; DENIED BEING ON FLORIDA TRIP TO HSCA:

From my third book The Not-So-Secret Service: Bob Hoelscher worked for the Miami-Dade Police Department for 50 years and was a counter-sniper and observer on the terrace deck of the airport hotel on November 18, 1963, the day Kennedy arrived in Miami. He guarded almost every VIP that came through Dade County from Kennedy to Clinton and started the tactical special weapons team, later known as SWAT, in 1970. Documents reveal a bomb threat against JFK in Miami just days before his death. Hoelscher told CBSMiami.com that he knew of potential threats to the president ahead of his November visit. “I was told that information had been developed that the Cubans might start a protest at an unknown location and they might make an attempt on the life of the President if there was sufficient distraction,” Hoelscher said. “I was told to keep this information to myself, watch the periphery and look for anything unusual.” While Hoelscher and some others in the police department knew, it was strictly on a “need to know” basis. “The information about the death threat was not shared with the rank and file out of fear that the media would find out,” Hoelscher said

VARIOUS Washington, D.C. motorcades + Chicago, IL 1961-1962---press/ photographers in front of and close by JFK's limo:

Vienna (above photo), June 1961:

Rome, 7/2/63---close press/photographers (including live tv), SAIC Behn, agents on limo, massive motorcycles, etc.:

Amherst, MA 10/26/63-military aide in pilot car AND JFK's limo, Dr Burkley close by, wire service/ press/ photographers close by:

Pueblo, CO 8/17/62:

Paris, France April 1961:

Costa Rica, March 1963:

North Dakota 9/25/63:

Agents Blaine, Giannoules, Hill, Landis and Pontius surround JFK and Jackie in the limo, Orange Bowl, FL December 1962:

9/26/61 on the way to La Guardia Airport:

6/8/63 Los Angeles, CA:

Worchester, MA 1961:

Boston, MA 5/29/61:

9/28/63 Las Vegas, NV:

9/26/63 Great Falls, MT:

9/12/62 Houston, TX:

Unknown:

The SECRET SERVICE was boss of the President and his security, NOT the other way around!

The 1963 (pre-assassination) UK VERSION of former JFK Secret Service Chief U.E. Baughman's 1962 book SECRET SERVICE CHIEF. FIRST EDITION HARDCOVER PUBLISHED BY HEINEMANN, LONDON, 1963:

So much for the president's "order" that never happened: Clint Hill on the rear of the limo on Main Street. He did not ride on the rear of the car from the latter portion of Main Street onward:

As Hill himself even admitted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xs7yNVI9sOM

See also:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgVYcyixXgA

Congressman Sam Gibbons, WHO RODE A FOOT AWAY FROM KENNEDY IN THE BACK OF THE LIMOUSINE, debunks the whole JFK-ordered-the-agents-off-the-limo garbage: "I rode with Kennedy every time he rode. I heard no such order. As I remember it the agents rode on the rear bumper all the way. Kennedy was very happy during his visit to Tampa. Sam Gibbons."

11/22/63:

DALLAS TIMES HERALD 11/22/63 BEFORE the assassination happened

11/21/63: more motorcycles were to have been beside JFK's limo in Dallas:

11/21/63, Houston, TX- THE DAY BEFORE---phenomenal motorcycle formation, good speed of car, press/ photographers/ Cecil Stoughton near JFK.:

11/21/63-THE DAY BEFORE---11/21/63, San Antonio, TX: view from motion picture taken from police helicopter! Other photo- PRS Agent Glen Bennett [see chapter 2 of my first book] is riding in the front passenger seat of the follow-up car, the spot traditionally reserved for the Shift Leader! I knew he rode the follow-up car in NY, FL and TX and this was mostly hushed up afterwards (and, with regard to Dallas, the INTENTIONS behind his placement there), but this is a new one on me. Other arrows- police lining street, good motorcycle formation, agent Don Lawton looks upward to scan buildings, Shift Leader Roberts BETWEEN Bennett and the driver, Kinney. Roofs of multi-story buildings guarded, helicopter used along route, FORTY (40) members of military intelligence unit guarded route

Fort Worth, TX 11/22/63 (BEFORE the assassination):

--text: FORT WORTH PRESS 11/22/63 morning edition: Fort Worth advance agent Bill Duncan...but look at the headline below: "16 GOOFS ARE CHECKED OUT BY SECRET SERVICE GUARDING JFK" (image via Ebay- it's already gone, so luckily I saved it)

"A Secret Service man said today 16 persons were "checked out" here last night by agents guarding President Kennedy's life.

"The public doesn't know it," the agent said, "but we checked out 16 goofs." The agent described them as "goofs." "But if they could have gotten close enough they could have harmed the President."

The agent, who asked not to be quoted by name, declined to elaborate. He would not say whether any of the persons investigated were carrying arms.

Police officers said they know a no persons arrested and jailed last night by SS men.

THE SECRET Service men protected President Kennedy and his wife and Vice President Lyndon Johnson during their reception at Carswell Air Force Base and during their overnight stay at Hotel Texas.

Police officers, sheriff's deputies and federal men roped off Eighth St outside Hotel Texas as the President arrived.

"Everything went smoothly," Police St. S. B. Pruitt, one of dozens of city officers who spent the night at the hotel, said. "We didn't have any trouble at all."

REPORTERS were not allowed in the corridor of the eighth floor where the President and Mrs. Kennedy slept.

SS men and police kept the halls cleared of everybody except those wearing "special badges."

Policemen were stationed on the seventh and ninth floor stairs to keep anybody from going to the floor with the President.

One SS man was stationed outside Vice President and Mrs. Johnson's 13th floor suite.

City firemen stood in the halls on the seventh, eighth and ninth floors and in the hotel kitchens. It was the first time that many of the firemen could remember that such a precaution had been made to protect visiting dignitaries.

"But we don't have the President visit us very often," one fireman said."

From Donovan's pre-11/22/63 book:

John Butler · August 1, 2018

“If you look at his answers he is completely denying evidence such as Altgens 6, Altgens 7, Mary Moorman’s Polaroid, and many of the assassination films which the foremost is the Zapruder film.”

Let’s take Altgens 6 first. Everyone is familiar with the famous Ike Altgens photo showing the President being shot 15 or so feet past the Stemmons Freeway sign or, so it is claimed. How well does Agent Landis’ testimony relate to Altgens 6? Not very well is the answer.

I will use Altgens 6 as representative of the other pieces of evidence mentioned. They all have the same problem with Altgens 6 that is evident in SA Landis’ testimony. That problem is location.

Altgens 6 says (most people believe) that President Kennedy was shot in the throat near the Stemmons Freeway sign and use Zapruder frame 255 to back that up. There are others with a different view. Those with a different view will be glad to analyze SA Landis’ testimony on where he said the shooting took place. This is just one more evidentiary fact that things didn’t happen as most people think.

“SA Landis said that the presidential limousine had just turned into the intersection of Houston and Elm Street and was just straightening from the turn in front of the TSBD when he heard the first shot. A 4 or 5 second pause, at 18 feet per second and the TSBD being 100 feet long, you get for the second shot occurring, at the SW corner of the TSBD or under the trees approaching the SW corner. This is where the second, or head shot occurred according to SA Landis.”

When you compare the two positions, there is a mismatch in location in the assassination story. Who do you believe. Over 40 witnesses at Parkland Hospital is enough to believe the autopsy story of the Warren Commission is a fake. The people at Parkland say the wound was quite different.

If Landis is correct then where does this place Mary Moorman for her Polaroid. Does it place her where Jean Hill said she was in Hill Exhibit # 5? You can find Hill Exhibit # 5 in Warren Commission Hearings, XX, 158. Hill Exhibit # 5 places Hill and Moorman on the SW corner of Houston and Main Streets almost directly across from the SW corner of the TSBD.

How many witnesses does it take to understand that an idea or statement is believable? Is it more than 2? Is it more than 10? Is 40 + witnesses saying that the assassination took place in front of the TSBD enough to believe what SA Landis has said?

SA Landis said "My reaction at this time was that the shot came from the front, but I didn't see anyone on the overpass".

There is conflicting evidence regarding this statement. Altgens 7 shows 11 men standing above Elm Street on the overpass. This was Officer Foster and 10 railroad men. All swore they were there and witnessed various things. Other photos and films, such as Bell, Dilliard photo, and Willis slide 7 show much the same thing. This conflicts with what SA Landis said and challenges his integrity.

However, there are other films and photos that reinforce his credibility. These are Bell film (early frames show no one and just a second or so later show people on the overpass), Robert Hughes film, John Martin film, Dave Weigman film, and Wilma Bond 6.

The problem with Altgens 7 is that it is easily shown to be a fake. The latest thing discovered is that fake Altgens 7 has no motorbike cops in it. They should be there according to other media.

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Secret Service agents Clint Hill and Paul Landis both do not believe the single bullet theory!

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