Trump, High Crimes and Misdemeanors?

[Michael Clark]

Admins, I did not want to put this here. But, did not want disrupt the Barr/JFK thread; Lastly, I did not want to walk away from this discussion, crying “off-topic”. Move it your discretion.

Another poster wrote:

 

 

These are the 10 episodes Mueller investigated for obstruction of justice

 https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/4/18/18484947/mueller-report-obstruction-of-justice-summary

Edited June 2, 2019 by Michael Clark

[Michael Clark]

Cliff, that article is not something for which I would expect my Representative to put his head on the block.

The wheat needs to be separated from the chaffe. There is chaffe in there, don’t you think? 

 

To to be sure, I scanned it only. I dead not give it a good read, and take notes, in the 10 minutes since you presented it.

Either way, the people need to press-upon their reps. I think it is old fashioned, but that does not make it unnecessary.

Edited June 4, 2019 by Michael Clark

[Michael Clark]

7 minutes ago, Kirk Gallaway said:

So you're in essence saying 'Sh-t or get off the pot" with impeachment.".

Sorry if it's not fast enough for you Michael. But these are much serious matters than you seem to think. It's been done only once before.  We have a sect of our population, an underclass that we've allowed to drop from a middle class existence,  who have all their hopes and  their frustrations vented through Trump. A figure who was always least likely to help them, with tax cuts for the rich, and yet to them, he is still their only hope..Then we have 90% approval from the Republican Party, who have never had it so good, and love his deregulation and tax policies, who never gave a sh-t about them, and have been the principal,  but not only party who have marginalized them.And there are justified fears about pulling the country apart further as it as polarized as it's been in 50 years.Besides ultimately, unless the equation changes, it won't work anyway.

It's much more complex than you could ever imagine.

Kirk, I am not saying that. Of course, time is of the essence.

Big question, one word........... Pence?  For 9 years? I think that this is what Pelosi is thinking

But, in the end, crimes are crimes, and Trump should be held accountable.

Things are surely more complicated than I understand. Any assertion to the contrary would be an absurdity.

I think I am smart enough, and have an appropriate background to fairly say whether I am looking at a document that has teeth or not.I haven’t seen it.

I like Biden but he is not a slam-dunk in 2020. We need a slam-dunk. 

 

[Kirk Gallaway]

Pence would  never get elected in any place, but DVP land. He's way too spooky for America.

If Trump were to get thrown out of office, which I don't think he will. Pence will not be 1/10 as powerful as Trump. He will have next to no popular support and the Congressional Republicans will reclaim their party. Pence will be beholding to Mitch Mac Connell, and won't be able to get anything done without him, which was the way it was always for Pence when he was in the House. He may make a crazy 19th Century pronouncement or 2, but functionally he'll revert to being his go along get along self, because he'll have no choice, and the Republicans will nominate in 2020 someone who is at least on the surface, the least like Trump. 

Edited June 2, 2019 by Kirk Gallaway

[Michael Clark]

Kirk, I enjoy reading your posts and I respect your intelligence.

That said, don’t be offended if I don’t use your tip at the racetrack or plan my camping trip around your weather report.

Who, besides Bart Simpson and Pat Nixon, would have predicted the morass in which we find ourselves today.

 

 

[Kirk Gallaway]

Well I never thought Trump was going to get elected, But when he put down Jon Mc Cain as not being a war hero and got away with it!  I knew something was afoot.. He not only got away with it, the Republicans turned into unprincipled cowards who were afraid to criticize him.. They were always the party that stood up for war heroes.

i think it was Joe who expressed his fears of a Pence Presidency being worse than Trump.  But as far as what I said about a Pence presidency, you can take it to the bank. Pence was a  nobody in Congress who tied his fortune to a person whose made a mess of their party., and revealed their weaknesses for all to see. It would be a severe embarrassment for the Republicans to  have another President removed from office and unlike Gerald Ford, Pence has been a fawning "yes" man to Trump from the very beginning.  

 

 

 

Edited June 2, 2019 by Kirk Gallaway

[Cliff Varnell]

4 hours ago, Michael Clark said:

Cliff, that article is not something for which I would expect my Representative to put his head on the block.

I expect my Congresswoman Nancy Pelosi will continue to play soft cop to Adam Schiff'/Maxine Waters hard cop.  

Once Congressional subpoena power is ratified by the courts Mueller and McGahn are gonna testify in public.

The investigatory process is under way and we have to patiently see how fast the courts resolve the issues of Congressional reach..

4 hours ago, Michael Clark said:

The wheat needs raptors be separated from the chaffe. There is chaffe in there, don’t you think? 

No, it's all red meat to me.

4 hours ago, Michael Clark said:

 

To to be sure, I scanned it only. I dead not give it a good read, and take notes, in the 10 minutes since you presented it.

Either way, the people need to press-upon their reps. I think it is old fashioned, but that does not make it unnecessary.

Absolutely.  And when you leave a message for your Congresscritter -- don't mumble.

[Cliff Varnell]

3 hours ago, Kirk Gallaway said:

Well I never thought Trump was going to get elected, But when he put down Jon Mc Cain as not being a war hero and got away with it!  I knew something was afoot.. He not only got away with it, the Republicans turned into unprincipled cowards who were afraid to criticize him.. They were always the party that stood up for war heroes.

The GOP has that reputation, but remember how they mocked war heroes John Kerry and Max Cleland?

Quote

i think it was Joe who expressed his fears of a Pence Presidency being worse than Trump.  But as far as what I said about a Pence presidency, you can take it to the bank. Pence was a  nobody in Congress who tied his fortune to a person whose made a mess of their party., and revealed their weaknesses for all to see. It would be a severe embarrassment for the Republicans to  have another President removed from office and unlike Gerald Ford, Pence has been a fawning "yes" man to Trump from the very beginning. 

Trump isn't going anywhere until he's voted out.  Impeachment isn't going to remove Trump, it's going to further destroy his reputation.

Edited June 2, 2019 by Cliff Varnell

[Cliff Varnell]

6 hours ago, Michael Clark said:

Kirk, I am not saying that. Of course, time is of the essence.

Big question, one word........... Pence?  For 9 years? I think that this is what Pelosi is thinking

But, in the end, crimes are crimes, and Trump should be held accountable.

Things are surely more complicated than I understand. Any assertion to the contrary would be an absurdity.

I think I am smart enough, and have an appropriate background to fairly say whether I am looking at a document that has teeth or not.I haven’t seen it.

I like Biden but he is not a slam-dunk in 2020. We need a slam-dunk. 

 

I've always liked Elizabeth Warren.  In 2016 I voted for Bernie and I keep his poster in my window.  After the 2018 mid-terms I went for Beto.  Then awhile back I thought Buttigieg would be great, a real slap in the face to the Christian Right.

Now, I'm back with Elizabeth Warren.  She's telling us her plans and how she's going to pay for them.  Politicians almost never do that.

Warren/Gillum 2020.

Edited June 2, 2019 by Cliff Varnell

[Cliff Varnell]

6 hours ago, Michael Clark said:

Kirk, I enjoy reading your posts and I respect your intelligence.

That said, don’t be offended if I don’t use your tip at the racetrack or plan my camping trip around your weather report.

Who, besides Bart Simpson and Pat Nixon, would have predicted the morass in which we find ourselves today.

This guy:

“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

― H.L. Mencken, On Politics: A Carnival of Buncombe

[Cliff Varnell]

6 hours ago, Michael Clark said:

I think I am smart enough, and have an appropriate background to fairly say whether I am looking at a document that has teeth or not.I haven’t seen it.

900 former fed prosecutors are teeth galore.'

Michael Clark's script

"Dear Congresscritter, 900 fed prosecutors say Trump is a criminal.  Impeach now!"

Don't over-think it Michael.

 

[Cliff Varnell]

57 minutes ago, Kathy Beckett said:

   This thread is being moved to Trump Discussion area.  Please do not post Trump threads in this area.  This thread does not interefere with a Trump Barr thread. You can start new threads about the Trump Administration in the area designated fir Trump.

 

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/forum/278-trump-campaign-and-presidency-discussion/   

Kathy, is there any way we could get the "Trump?" thread moved over from the JFK DEEP POLITICS section? Por Favor?

[Kirk Gallaway]

9 hours ago, Kirk Gallaway said:

ell I never thought Trump was going to get elected, But when he put down Jon Mc Cain as not being a war hero and got away with it!  I knew something was afoot.. He not only got away with it, the Republicans turned into unprincipled cowards who were afraid to criticize him.. They were always the party that stood up for war heroes.

Cliff said: The GOP has that reputation, but remember how they mocked war heroes John Kerry and Max Cleland?

 i agree completely Cliff, but the war hero thing until recently, has always been more of a mantra to the Republicans, whereas the Democrats use it to appeal to middle of the road voters, but they are now having a bonanza of it with a draft dodging President. The Democrats with all their  contending groups just have more issues than the Republicans, and unfortunately, issues with issues, if you know what I mean. 

[Kirk Gallaway]

How did Trump get such a dedicated group of voters?

 

One aspect of it lies in the fact that for many decades the major parties have been playing their campaigns between the 40 yard lines. Trump finally upset that.

 

 

I think the Trump superhero image was reinforced in certain circles, and to an extent on this forum by his easy disposal of Jeb Bush who was seen as part of the  Bush dynasty. Let Evan Meacham go on about it, but the Bush's were never  a dynasty. It's really a myth. Papa George Bush was ordained by Republican God reincarnate Ronald Reagan. You can think that was all part of some Republican Deep State set up , but you can also extend that to his 2 California buddies George Schulz and Caspar Weinberger who first served under Nixon, But that Reagan and Bush were some preordained arrangement is completely untrue. Bush was about to pick up his marbles and go home the night before losing the nomination to Reagan at the convention. His political career was saved from a phone call from Reagan when he was asked if he'd  like to be his Reagan's running mate.

What people forget is that papa Bush lost his re election bid to Clinton and his son lost the popular vote to Al Gore.They were never invincible.The Democrats just didn't field a good candidate, or got stolen.

 

But Trump gets in the debates and attacks Jeb's brother for his disaster in Iraq. And what could Jeb do or say? Except look around to each side as if asking for sympathy from the audience and viewers, (a commonly  failed Jeb tactic) His candidacy was already toast!

In truth there were a lot of Democrats who were eager to hear some candidate from anywhere drive that home. Obama made a  between the 40 yard lines calculation that he was going to honor tradition and not attack the sitting president about his reckless war, (besides he didn't want to look like an uppity black man taking on the establishment, even though his public record on Iraq shows he clearly did.)   

'There are several other Trump tactics that could be mentioned that were unconventional and clearly solidified an unquestioning allegiance in his followers. One that I never hear people refer to now that certified him as political outsider, is that he was asked what the future of the Republican party was and he said "I don't know if they're going to be around in 10 years." Here he's running for office appealing to use that party's apparatus to ride him to the Presidency and completely calls them on their future relevance. Anyone has to admire that. So many of the Republicans politicians tried out  a "never Trump" posture and finally threw all their chips behind Trump and have been the most lowly cowards ever since.

 

What do the Democrats do now about Trump?, they continue keying on the Mueller report, they gather more evidence, let the state courts bring out more indictments, they set out to impeach, and they say "We know it's not going to get through the Senate because they are the most despicable, unprincipled, cowardly group of politicians in our nation's history."  (maybe not, but it sounds good and it could be true). You go after Lindsay Graham, Mitch Mc Connell, Ted Cruz, Marco Rubio,  Mike Pence and you don't spare any skeletons, like Paul Ryan. (Do you know he was once actually awarded,  the Speakership for his moral rectitude, and his principled Conservative  ideology??)

 

You let your Presidential candidates make political  hay either attacking Trump, or taking on the Health Care issue, or student debt, or finally addressing the horrendous cost of future climate change and energy alternatives, the corruption of money in the political system, namely all the issues you're opponents have never talked about. But in a somewhat low key manner you  go about your business with impeachment in the House. You say you're doing  do it  because you can't set a precedent that such abuses can go in the future. You dare the Republican Senate, but you act like it's a foregone conclusion, based on the conscience they've exhibited in the last 4 years. You use the opportunity to clean up the government from special interest whether it's Trump special interest or the current corporate domination. You make it clear that you're paving the way for a new generation of good, cleaner government who will work for  a greater majority of the people.

 

 

 

 

[Joe Bauer]

On 6/2/2019 at 7:39 AM, Kirk Gallaway said:

How did Trump get such a dedicated group of voters?

 

One aspect of it lies in the fact that for many decades the major parties have been playing their campaigns between the 40 yard lines. Trump finally upset that.

 

 

I think the Trump superhero image was reinforced in certain circles, and to an extent on this forum by his easy disposal of Jeb Bush who was seen as part of the  Bush dynasty. Let Evan Meacham go on about it, but the Bush's were never  a dynasty. It's really a myth. Papa George Bush was ordained by Republican God reincarnate Ronald Reagan. You can think that was all part of some Republican Deep State set up , but you can also extend that to his 2 California buddies George Schulz and Caspar Weinberger who first served under Nixon, But that Reagan and Bush were some preordained arrangement is completely untrue. Bush was about to pick up his marbles and go home the night before losing the nomination to Reagan at the convention. His political career was saved from a phone call from Reagan when he was asked if he'd  like to be his Reagan's running mate.

What people forget is that papa Bush lost his re election bid to Clinton and his son lost the popular vote to Al Gore.They were never invincible.The Democrats just didn't field a good candidate, or got stolen.

 

But Trump gets in the debates and attacks Jeb's brother for his disaster in Iraq. And what could Jeb do or say? Except look around to each side as if asking for sympathy from the audience and viewers, (a commonly  failed Jeb tactic) His candidacy was already toast!

In truth there were a lot of Democrats who were eager to hear some candidate from anywhere drive that home. Obama made a  between the 40 yard lines calculation that he was going to honor tradition and not attack the sitting president about his reckless war, (besides he didn't want to look like an uppity black man taking on the establishment, even though his public record on Iraq shows he clearly did.)   

'There are several other Trump tactics that could be mentioned that were unconventional and clearly solidified an unquestioning allegiance in his followers. One that I never hear people refer to now that certified him as political outsider, is that he was asked what the future of the Republican party was and he said "I don't know if they're going to be around in 10 years." Here he's running for office appealing to use that party's apparatus to ride him to the Presidency and completely calls them on their future relevance. Anyone has to admire that. So many of the Republicans politicians tried out  a "never Trump" posture and finally threw all their chips behind Trump and have been the most lowly cowards ever since.

 

What do the Democrats do now about Trump?, they continue keying on the Mueller report, they gather more evidence, let the state courts bring out more indictments, they set out to impeach, and they say "We know it's not going to get through the Senate because they are the most despicable, unprincipled, cowardly group of politicians in our nation's history."  (maybe not, but it sounds good and it could be true). You go after Lindsay Graham, Mitch Mc Connell, Ted Cruz, Marco Rubio,  Mike Pence and you don't spare any skeletons, like Paul Ryan. (Do you know he was once actually awarded,  the Speakership for his moral rectitude, and his principled Conservative  ideology??)

 

You let your Presidential candidates make political  hay either attacking Trump, or taking on the Health Care issue, or student debt, or finally addressing the horrendous cost of future climate change and energy alternatives, the corruption of money in the political system, namely all the issues you're opponents have never talked about. But in a somewhat low key manner you  go about your business with impeachment in the House. You say you're doing  do it  because you can't set a precedent that such abuses can go in the future. You dare the Republican Senate, but you act like it's a foregone conclusion, based on the conscience they've exhibited in the last 4 years. You use the opportunity to clean up the government from special interest whether it's Trump special interest or the current corporate domination. You make it clear that you're paving the way for a new generation of good, cleaner government who will work for  a greater majority of the people.

 

 

 

 

How incredibly succinct Kirk.

Right on!

I wish every adult American could see and read your commentary above.

Edited June 4, 2019 by Joe Bauer