The inevitable end result of our last 56 years

[Matthew Koch]

When I was a kid this was un-acceptable behavior by an adult that would have you investigated by the authorities for child abuse until Wokism.  

 

[W. Niederhut]

[Matthew Koch]

We need more teachers like Ron Swanson and less teachers like this other guy💯

 

Edited March 3, 2023 by Matthew Koch

[John Cotter]

7 hours ago, W. Niederhut said:

John,

    I agree with most of your (above) analysis, but this sentence is problematic.

    If you study the history of Democratic progressives in the U.S. during the past century-- FDR, JFK, et.al.-- they have been the only bona fide representatives of the American working class.

    Every single legislative achievement benefitting the working class in the U.S. during the past century has been accomplished by Democrats, often in the teeth of fierce Republican resistance-- Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, Obamacare, etc.   The lone exception is that Nixon deserves credit for helping to create the EPA.

    In contrast, the essential legislative legacy of the Republican Party during the past 40 years has been tax cuts for the rich-- beginning with Ronald Reagan in the 1980s, then Bush & Cheney in 2001 and 2003, and Trump in 2017.

    Trump is a plutocrat who has used white racism and xenophobia as a disguise for populism.

     I'm opposed to Bowdlerization, in any form, but the current white supremacist "Anti-woke" book banning movement in Republican politics is an abomination-- reminiscent of things that Hitler did in Germany in the 1930s.

William,

I understand your argument.

Thirty years ago my view would probably have been that since the Democrats are less plutocratic than the Republicans, I should vote for the Democrats.

My view now is that since the Democrats and Republicans are both plutocratic, I shouldn’t vote for either of them.

Disillusionment comes with age; but as someone once said, disillusionment is better than illusionment.

Edited March 4, 2023 by John Cotter

[Benjamin Cole]

7 hours ago, Andrew Prutsok said:

The reason I'm not anti-woke is because woke is not a threat. It's an entirely manufactured bogeyman by the right which likes to focus in on the most extreme examples of things in our culture and present them as representing the mainstream of their opponents.

The right has been doing this for years. In it's early days, Fox News used to literally bring on spokesmen from NAMBLA and presented them as representative of the Democratic mainstream in debates with its hosts.

Interesting.

It is a debatable point.

It was "woke" to define the C19 virus as evolved from nature, as opposed to being a lab creation, especially one that came from China. Add on:  Only racists (wait for the word "Hitler" eventually) suspected the virus came from the Wuhan lab.

Social media outlets, very woke, literally censored people who posted they suspected a Wuhan lab leak. 

When wokism can derail rational analysis...perhaps it becomes dangerous. Wokism is not fact- or science-based, anymore than certain right-wing  ideologies are. 

BTW, it looks like science has determined natural immunity is the way to go against C19, and masks were not effective. 

As socioeconomic policy, wrecking an economy in a futile fight against C19 was bad policy---and seemed to be the "woke thing to do." 

I am skeptical of people who suppress the truth---whether Donk, 'Phant, woke or MAGA. Yes, at some point such people become dangerous. 

 

 

 

Edited March 4, 2023 by Benjamin Cole

[John Cotter]

5 minutes ago, Benjamin Cole said:

Interesting.

It is a debatable point.

It was "woke" to define the C19 virus as evolved from nature, as opposed to being a lab creation, especially one that came from China. Add on:  Only racists (wait for the word "Hitler" eventually) suspected the virus came from the Wuhan lab.

Social media outlets, very woke, literally censored people who posted they suspected a Wuhan lab leak. 

When wokism can derail rational analysis...perhaps it becomes dangerous. Wokism is not fact- or science-based, anymore than certain right-wing  ideologies are. 

BTW, it looks like science has determined natural immunity is the way to go against C19, and masks were not effective. 

As socioeconomic policy, wrecking an economy in a futile fight against C19 was bad policy---and seemed to be the "woke thing to do." 

I am skeptical of people who suppress the truth---whether Donk, 'Phant, woke or MAGA. Yes, at some point such people become dangerous. 

 

 

 

Well said, Benjamin.

[Matt Allison]

[Benjamin Cole]

3 minutes ago, John Cotter said:

Well said, Benjamin.

Remember this tweet from The New York Times lead reporter on C19:  “Someday we will stop talking about the lab leak theory and maybe even admit its racist roots. But alas, that day is not yet here.”

Yeah, after being defined as a racist from the get-go, now let's examine the origins of the lab leak....

[W. Niederhut]

29 minutes ago, John Cotter said:

William,

I understand your argument.

Thirty years ago my view would probably have been that since the Democrats are less plutocratic than the Republicans, I should vote for the Democrats.

My view now is that since the Democrats and Republicans are both plutocratic, I shouldn’t vote for either of them.

Disillusionment comes with age; but as someone once said, disillusionment is better than illusionment.

John,

   Don't buy into Benjamin Cole's oft-repeated pseudo-historical bunk on this subject.  He's dead wrong.

   If you look at environmental protection, tax, and healthcare policy, there is simply no equivalence between the Republican and Democratic Parties in modern American history.

   Republicans have consistently endeavored, first and foremost, to cut taxes for the rich, and secondarily to cut healthcare funding for the poor, and sabotage pollution regulations for corporate polluters.

    It's a consistent pattern during the past 40 years.

   The top priority for Republicans since 1980 has been to cut taxes for the rich, and to "starve the Beast"-- i.e., to use the resulting budget deficits as a pretext for cutting funding that benefits the 90%.

    Republicans only use "culture wars" issues-- race, "woke-ism," religion, homophobia, etc.-- as a means of tricking white working class voters into voting for their tax cuts for the rich and "starving the Beast."

      This isn't rocket science.

[John Cotter]

14 minutes ago, W. Niederhut said:

John,

   Don't buy into Benjamin Cole's oft-repeated pseudo-historical bunk on this subject.  He's dead wrong.

   If you look at environmental protection, tax, and healthcare policy, there is simply no equivalence between the Republican and Democratic Parties in modern American history.

   Republicans have consistently endeavored, first and foremost, to cut taxes for the rich, and secondarily to cut healthcare funding for the poor, and sabotage pollution regulations for corporate polluters.

    It's a consistent pattern during the past 40 years.

   The top priority for Republicans since 1980 has been to cut taxes for the rich, and to "starve the Beast"-- i.e., to use the resulting budget deficits as a pretext for cutting funding that benefits the 90%.

    Republicans only use "culture wars" issues-- race, "woke-ism," religion, homophobia, etc.-- as a means of tricking white working class voters into voting for their tax cuts for the rich and "starving the Beast."

      This isn't rocket science.

William, 

You're back to your insulting condescending self already!

I have arrived at my own political views independently of anyone, including Benjamin.

[Benjamin Cole]

2 minutes ago, John Cotter said:

William, 

You're back to your insulting condescending self already!

I have arrived at my own political views independently of anyone, including Benjamin.

Verily.

I do not expect John Cotter to subscribe to my views...only that he respect my views, as I do his. 

I do not impugn the motives or intellect of Cotter, and as a civil conversationalist, Cotter has done the same. 

 

 

 

 

[John Cotter]

25 minutes ago, Benjamin Cole said:

Verily.

I do not expect John Cotter to subscribe to my views...only that he respect my views, as I do his. 

I do not impugn the motives or intellect of Cotter, and as a civil conversationalist, Cotter has done the same. 

 

 

 

 

Exactly.

[W. Niederhut]

18 minutes ago, Benjamin Cole said:

Verily.

I do not expect John Cotter to subscribe to my views...only that he respect my views, as I do his. 

I do not impugn the motives or intellect of Cotter, and as a civil conversationalist, Cotter has done the same.

Ben,

Of course you're entitled to your own views, which you have expressed, repeatedly, on this thread-- 1,924 times!

But, as Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan famously said, "You're not entitled to your own facts."

Are we supposed to "respect" the erroneous views of those who persist in ignoring the facts-- like implying that there are no substantive differences between Republican and Democratic tax and healthcare policies?

That Republicans since 1980 are not the party of Reaganomic tax cuts for the rich and "starving the beast?"

Haven't we already had this conversation two or three times?  🙄

And when confronted about this issue, you always play the victim, while accusing your critics of being uncivil for criticizing your erroneous views.

 

[Benjamin Cole]

11 minutes ago, W. Niederhut said:

Ben,

Of course you're entitled to your own views, which you have expressed, repeatedly, on this thread-- 1,924 times!

But, as Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan famously said, "You're not entitled to your own facts."

Are we supposed to "respect" the erroneous views of those who persist in ignoring the facts-- like implying that there are no substantive differences between Republican and Democratic tax and healthcare policies?

That Republicans since 1980 are not the party of Reaganomic tax cuts for the rich and "starving the beast?"

Haven't we already had this conversation two or three times?  🙄

And when confronted about this issue, you always play the victim, while accusing your critics of being uncivil for criticizing your erroneous views.

 

Sure, you can say there are substantive differences between the two major US political parties, and I not not denigrate you for saying so. You may regard your views as "fact." 

Other observers, such as President Obama, say the DC game is being played between the 40-yard lines. 

Add on, there are several tendencies in the modern parties I find disagreeable. 

IMHO, the Donks have become aligned with the intel state, and the militarist globalists, and totally unmoored from the middle and employee classes. I also dislike Donk woke-ism and ID politics. The defense contractors, Wall Street, Silicon Valley have migrated into the Donk column in terms of campaign contributions (while waving rainbow flags). 

While I like the policies of the populist wing of the 'Phants, IMHO they need to more clearly separate themselves from any sort of racism. 

IMHO, the establishment 'Phants are deficient in environmental issues and on the need for national health insurance. The establishment 'Phants nearly rival the Donks for their slavish devotion to the Deep State.

I enjoy civil conversation about these policy differences---but especially, for this forum, I think conversations about the Donk-Deep State alliance, and corrupted media, are a worthy pursuit. 

This is a serious concern---there is no more "loyal opposition" anymore in the US.

In war after war after war after war....

[Matthew Koch]

1 hour ago, Matt Allison said:

Thanks mAtT, I wasn't sure if this was "Woke" but using your logic.. I can see that it is💯